Wheat and tares

[JohnC]

Matt 13 - Parable of the Wheat and the Tares vs Genesis 3 - the temptation of Eve...

Interesting how Jesus picked 2 classifications of people who were "Rooted up" during the "Purges" of the field....
Those practicing Lawlessness
Those practicing "Skandalia" - Setting traps for and scandalization of those who weren't necessarily PRACTICING lawlessness themselves with the INTENT of inciting them INTO ERROR where they had not previously practiced such....

The second one should catch our attention... because the one setting the traps and practicing the scandalization isn't necessarily VIEWED as being "Lawless"... but rather incites OTHERS to practice lawlessness.... That was the modus operandi of The Serpent in the garden with Eve... Asking the question WASN'T directly being unlawful... HE (The serpent) did not personally FORCE or Incite Eve to do anything and he also didn't explicitly state anything untrue of God...

See... That's how the whole thing really worked - the trap is set so that you reach the wrong conclusion...

Let's break it down... Genesis 3....

"Did God really say....?" - Just, a question... Only a question... A yes/no answer...

"Dying, you do not die...." - YES, ALSO, strictly a fact.. because while the BODY dies - the Spirit apparently lives on, which The Serpent appeared to know....

"For God does know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened and ye have been as God, knowing Good and Evil." - Yes, ALSO strictly a fact in what is said.... It is true that "God does know .... Your eyes will be opened" - And YES - God does FULLY know that you will receive MORALITY - a "Compass" of "Good and Evil" that acts INDEPENDENT of God....

But - what Eve understood it to mean and what it ACTUALLY meant were TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.....

See - in all of this, The Serpent did not specifically utter anything that was strictly untrue in the sense of it strictly being "FALSE".... The "Falsehood" is in the omission....

But - it was constructed to elicit a particular response.... It was constructed to be A TRAP.... To make HER think this one thing when the WORDS strictly meant another.... and it worked...

Notice now, what Eve CONCLUDES from this...
The tree is good for food - Not necessarily true... AND NOT GERMANE to the discussion... Did The Serpent indicate anything about FOOD? Nope....

Is pleasant to the eyes - Also perhaps true.... BUT ALSO NOT GERMANE to the discussion... Did the Serpent indicate anything about partaking of things which are pleasant to the eyes (Aka desirable when you see it... as in "I see it, I want it"...) Nope...

Desirable to make one wise - FALSE! ... Being MORAL has nothing to do with being WISE... Wise has to do with learning from your mistakes... Learning the "Correct" things... Learning "God's Ways." Morality is a set of arbitrary rules for conduct that May or May NOT be true... In fact - some "Morals" are quite "Foolish" in that they elicit the OPPOSITE resulting action instead of what was actually desired...

See - Eve's conclusion was based on her logical reasoning based on her knowledge of the nature of God.... God was wise - and so something making you LIKE GOD would THEREFORE make you WISE... BUT this is NOT what the serpent strictly SAID... He said you would "Know good and evil" - aka you would possess MORALITY independent of God - which is TRUE... In a sense - this is LIKE GOD in that God "Knows good and evil"....

Notice how MORALITY does NOT NECESSARILY result in Wisdom... Eve's CONCLUSION was incorrect... She was "Scandalized" - "Baited" into a trap.....

And notice who FELL into the trap? Eve, not The Serpent.... and look - The Serpent steps back and says "I have personally done no wrong and I have spoken no lies about God or His nature... YOU are the one who assumed things that I never said..."

But - what's the Judgement of The Messiah - all SCANDALIZERS will be cast out... All those trying to set traps to incite OTHERS will be cast out.... So - even though they STRICTLY do not practice any "Lawlessness" in the sense of breaking the LETTER of the law in what can be measured externally.... AND They also may not STRICTLY proclaim anything untrue of God - but what they DO is to carefully construct things (Arguments, situations, etc) in such a way that YOU INFER the wrong things and so you TAKE the wrong action and DO the wrong things.....

Wrap this back to Balaam in Numbers and "The error of Balaam" in both Jude and Revelation 2...

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Matt 13 - Parable of the Wheat and the Tares vs Genesis 3 - the temptation of Eve...

Interesting how Jesus picked 2 classifications of people who were "Rooted up" during the "Purges" of the field....
Those practicing Lawlessness
Those practicing "Skandalia" - Setting traps for and scandalization of those who weren't necessarily PRACTICING lawlessness themselves with the INTENT of inciting them INTO ERROR where they had not previously practiced such....

The second one should catch our attention... because the one setting the traps and practicing the scandalization isn't necessarily VIEWED as being "Lawless"... but rather incites OTHERS to practice lawlessness.... That was the modus operandi of The Serpent in the garden with Eve... Asking the question WASN'T directly being unlawful... HE (The serpent) did not personally FORCE or Incite Eve to do anything and he also didn't explicitly state anything untrue of God...

See... That's how the whole thing really worked - the trap is set so that you reach the wrong conclusion...

Let's break it down... Genesis 3....

"Did God really say....?" - Just, a question... Only a question... A yes/no answer...

"Dying, you do not die...." - YES, ALSO, strictly a fact.. because while the BODY dies - the Spirit apparently lives on, which The Serpent appeared to know....

"For God does know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened and ye have been as God, knowing Good and Evil." - Yes, ALSO strictly a fact in what is said.... It is true that "God does know .... Your eyes will be opened" - And YES - God does FULLY know that you will receive MORALITY - a "Compass" of "Good and Evil" that acts INDEPENDENT of God....

But - what Eve understood it to mean and what it ACTUALLY meant were TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.....

See - in all of this, The Serpent did not specifically utter anything that was strictly untrue in the sense of it strictly being "FALSE".... The "Falsehood" is in the omission....

But - it was constructed to elicit a particular response.... It was constructed to be A TRAP.... To make HER think this one thing when the WORDS strictly meant another.... and it worked...

Notice now, what Eve CONCLUDES from this...
The tree is good for food - Not necessarily true... AND NOT GERMANE to the discussion... Did The Serpent indicate anything about FOOD? Nope....

Is pleasant to the eyes - Also perhaps true.... BUT ALSO NOT GERMANE to the discussion... Did the Serpent indicate anything about partaking of things which are pleasant to the eyes (Aka desirable when you see it... as in "I see it, I want it"...) Nope...

Desirable to make one wise - FALSE! ... Being MORAL has nothing to do with being WISE... Wise has to do with learning from your mistakes... Learning the "Correct" things... Learning "God's Ways." Morality is a set of arbitrary rules for conduct that May or May NOT be true... In fact - some "Morals" are quite "Foolish" in that they elicit the OPPOSITE resulting action instead of what was actually desired...

See - Eve's conclusion was based on her logical reasoning based on her knowledge of the nature of God.... God was wise - and so something making you LIKE GOD would THEREFORE make you WISE... BUT this is NOT what the serpent strictly SAID... He said you would "Know good and evil" - aka you would possess MORALITY independent of God - which is TRUE... In a sense - this is LIKE GOD in that God "Knows good and evil"....

Notice how MORALITY does NOT NECESSARILY result in Wisdom... Eve's CONCLUSION was incorrect... She was "Scandalized" - "Baited" into a trap.....

And notice who FELL into the trap? Eve, not The Serpent.... and look - The Serpent steps back and says "I have personally done no wrong and I have spoken no lies about God or His nature... YOU are the one who assumed things that I never said..."

But - what's the Judgement of The Messiah - all SCANDALIZERS will be cast out... All those trying to set traps to incite OTHERS will be cast out.... So - even though they STRICTLY do not practice any "Lawlessness" in the sense of breaking the LETTER of the law in what can be measured externally.... AND They also may not STRICTLY proclaim anything untrue of God - but what they DO is to carefully construct things (Arguments, situations, etc) in such a way that YOU INFER the wrong things and so you TAKE the wrong action and DO the wrong things.....

Wrap this back to Balaam in Numbers and "The error of Balaam" in both Jude and Revelation 2...

Not 100 percent right here. You said the serpant did not fall into a trap. Yea actually he kind of did for he thought he would end up with all this and in the end the serpant was worse off.

 

[JohnC]

The serpent was not "Tricked" into trying to run Eve off the rails.. He knew what he was doing.... He may have misjudged what God's response to Adam, Eve, and himself might be - but he did what he did intentionally....

By and large, within the church - people get tricked into propagating bad doctrine... They get taught by somebody in authority "What the Word of God really means" - and they teach this to others... Those people have no intention of leading others astray - they just keep propagating error in the name of Truth.... They are the blind leading the blind... THEY fall into the same idiomatic ditch as those they are "leading".... If they will open their hearts and minds up to God - God will sort them out - and they quit teaching those things AND falling for them themselves...

But - there is a MUCH smaller group, on the other hand, who know what they are doing.... They are using the bible as a way to enhance their own power and authority.... And so - to do that... they teach carefully crafted errors... Errors that they may not personally practice - but which more or less incapacitates those practicing them....

So - for example... These may teach that Leadership is God appointed - thus you should not question your leadership... Either your Civil leadership OR your church leadership... You must comply with your church leadership - even if the request seems unscriptural or clearly against God's written word... AND - it's not your place to question the Civil Leadership... Do not be a terror to leaders Paul says...... because - God did appoint them over you didn't He... and God knows what He is doing.... and you love God don't you....

Thanks

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The serpent was not "Tricked" into trying to run Eve off the rails.. He knew what he was doing.... He may have misjudged what God's response to Adam, Eve, and himself might be - but he did what he did intentionally....

By and large, within the church - people get tricked into propagating bad doctrine... They get taught by somebody in authority "What the Word of God really means" - and they teach this to others... Those people have no intention of leading others astray - they just keep propagating error in the name of Truth.... They are the blind leading the blind... THEY fall into the same idiomatic ditch as those they are "leading".... If they will open their hearts and minds up to God - God will sort them out - and they quit teaching those things AND falling for them themselves...

But - there is a MUCH smaller group, on the other hand, who know what they are doing.... They are using the bible as a way to enhance their own power and authority.... And so - to do that... they teach carefully crafted errors... Errors that they may not personally practice - but which more or less incapacitates those practicing them....

So - for example... These may teach that Leadership is God appointed - thus you should not question your leadership... Either your Civil leadership OR your church leadership... You must comply with your church leadership - even if the request seems unscriptural or clearly against God's written word... AND - it's not your place to question the Civil Leadership... Do not be a terror to leaders Paul says...... because - God did appoint them over you didn't He... and God knows what He is doing.... and you love God don't you....

Thanks

I said he was tricked or another words dooped into believing that he would gain what adam had and he found out real fast that is not how God was going to alow this to play out. Why do you think satan went after them in the first place?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The serpent was not "Tricked" into trying to run Eve off the rails.. He knew what he was doing.... He may have misjudged what God's response to Adam, Eve, and himself might be - but he did what he did intentionally....

By and large, within the church - people get tricked into propagating bad doctrine... They get taught by somebody in authority "What the Word of God really means" - and they teach this to others... Those people have no intention of leading others astray - they just keep propagating error in the name of Truth.... They are the blind leading the blind... THEY fall into the same idiomatic ditch as those they are "leading".... If they will open their hearts and minds up to God - God will sort them out - and they quit teaching those things AND falling for them themselves...

But - there is a MUCH smaller group, on the other hand, who know what they are doing.... They are using the bible as a way to enhance their own power and authority.... And so - to do that... they teach carefully crafted errors... Errors that they may not personally practice - but which more or less incapacitates those practicing them....

So - for example... These may teach that Leadership is God appointed - thus you should not question your leadership... Either your Civil leadership OR your church leadership... You must comply with your church leadership - even if the request seems unscriptural or clearly against God's written word... AND - it's not your place to question the Civil Leadership... Do not be a terror to leaders Paul says...... because - God did appoint them over you didn't He... and God knows what He is doing.... and you love God don't you....

Thanks

In all of this John would it not be best for believers who feel or see that their spiritual leader is speaking oposed of the written word of God to FIRST SEEK GOD FOR DIRECTION?
I mean this way if the church splits it is under Gods authority and if the pastors repents it was the Holy Spirit who brought the conviction and not man trying to use the word or trying and hoping God will back him as he confronts the leader.