Where do we draw the line in our service to others?

[Derek88]

I have as well have given my life unto giving to the unthankful, and this is hurtful if it's not done with the right motive and filled with the Love of God, but is still hurtful regardless because it's called the WOUNDED WORD! We must suffer the reproach for Christ, for if we wait to only give to those who are in return thankful, we are not reflecting the life of our crucified Christ! The Lord gave himself completely away on the cross to all the unthankful, and he also died for his enemies! Will they all accept his gift, no, very many poor souls will reject it.

The great challenge is to Love beyond the rejection, and love and pray for those who despitefully use you! I've been going threw this challenge quite a lot lately with my neighbors! Please pray for me, as I gain more Christ-like character in this! But I do agree with MM about being wise in giving, especially to those who will take what's given to feed an evil addiction! Yes, must be Spirit-led in this. My heart does go out to the real needy ones, who are sincere. A hug might do more good than a big mac! But my closing statement brings me back to the thought of not letting our spirits and hearts turn a little hard, from being abused in these things, which from experience is very easy to do, but keep in mind always that Jesus was almost always around the poor and the needy! And the Bible says and reminds us in saying, give to the poor, give to every man that asks of you, if he asks for your coat give him your cloak also, as you will heap coals upon his head!

So here is my question for us. If Christ commands us, and yes this was a command, give to every man that asks of you, what are we going to give to him? If no money, then what? Some ideas- a kind and loving word that is worth apples of gold in pictures of silver, maybe a ride, offer him or her to cut your grass for a meal or two, sit him down and read to him your Bible, offer a to pray for him! We must be careful in these things, because the way we treat everyone around us, is how we treat God! Shalom

 

[Musicmaster]

I have as well have given my life unto giving to the unthankful, and this is hurtful if it's not done with the right motive and filled with the Love of God, but is still hurtful regardless because it's called the WOUNDED WORD! We must suffer the reproach for Christ, for if we wait to only give to those who are in return thankful, we are not reflecting the life of our crucified Christ! The Lord gave himself completely away on the cross to all the unthankful, and he also died for his enemies! Will they all accept his gift, no, very many poor souls will reject it.

The great challenge is to Love beyond the rejection, and love and pray for those who despitefully use you! I've been going threw this challenge quite a lot lately with my neighbors! Please pray for me, as I gain more Christ-like character in this! But I do agree with MM about being wise in giving, especially to those who will take what's given to feed an evil addiction! Yes, must be Spirit-led in this. My heart does go out to the real needy ones, who are sincere. A hug might do more good than a big mac! But my closing statement brings me back to the thought of not letting our spirits and hearts turn a little hard, from being abused in these things, which from experience is very easy to do, but keep in mind always that Jesus was almost always around the poor and the needy! And the Bible says and reminds us in saying, give to the poor, give to every man that asks of you, if he asks for your coat give him your cloak also, as you will heap coals upon his head!

So here is my question for us. If Christ commands us, and yes this was a command, give to every man that asks of you, what are we going to give to him? If no money, then what? Some ideas- a kind and loving word that is worth apples of gold in pictures of silver, maybe a ride, offer him or her to cut your grass for a meal or two, sit him down and read to him your Bible, offer a to pray for him! We must be careful in these things, because the way we treat everyone around us, is how we treat God! Shalom

D88, thanks for this well thought out post.

Please allow me to go to even greater depths than I have done before this point in this thread, for the benefit of everyone reading through here:

Perhaps Bob, CN and I have provided a good overview to this...or at least, I thought we had. I do indeed agree with giving to every man that asks of me, and I do so in accordance with spiritual discernment and guidance.

How does that play out? Well, that fella in Arby's, I did give to him in the form of compassion by way of an unwillingness to help him get high again. He had an opportunity to 'dry out' if he was unable to purchase his fix. I also gave to him an example of integrity by not rewarding him for his theft of that drink. He found himself confronted by someone who gave to him what he to this very day may not have ever discerned for himself as being what he needed the most.

I'm sure we can agree that the first line of defense in any exploration of a touchy topic like this is to remember to never pit God's word against itself with seemingly contradictory instructions within scripture when it comes to giving is to do so when the Spirit of the Lord leads us to do so. I want to avoid that at all costs, so please think into the levels of what I'm saying here. If you have questions, then do ask, for I will be happy to explain further if need be.

You see, it's one thing to hand one's child a scorpion when asked for a piece of bread, but quite another to give to someone what they need more than anything else, even when it's something they can't hold in their hands like a tangible object. The integrity I gave to him likely sailed over his head completely unnoticed by him, but in eternity he will see it and understand. The lack of a fix that I gave to him by not giving him what would otherwise have enabled him to buy, that too likely sailed over his head in this life, but will be understood by him when he enters into eternity.

Giving has many forms. If a man is freezing on the streets in a wind breaker, and I have a coat that would keep him much warmer, and warmth is indeed his greatest need in that moment, then absolutely...I will meet his need as best I can, even if it means my own coat. That's vastly different when pitted against an obvious hustler and drug addict. The signs of drug addiction were not only written all over him, but also in his talking to himself and other clear indicators. Being an enabler for that is not a glorification of the Lord.

You know, it's not easy from the purely human standpoint to say no to anyone, especially when one has Christ within. The Lord says no to many prayers directed up to Him, and none of us can say how hard that may seem to us, but there is always a good reason for the Lord to say no, and we likewise should also consider the broader spectrum of the portraiture of a life when we observe the greater harm that may be done to give to everyone what they want rather than to give to them what they actually need. That difference isn't always easy to discern, and may sometimes require considerable prayer, but in that moment, I believe I discerned the right choice.

There is another verse that is pertinent to this topic:

1 Kings 8:39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, [even] thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men

This is where Systematic Theology shines, taking in what all scripture has to say on a topic.

I welcome thoughts about all this.

MM

 

[Via dolarossa]

I have as well have given my life unto giving to the unthankful, and this is hurtful if it's not done with the right motive and filled with the Love of God, but is still hurtful regardless because it's called the WOUNDED WORD! We must suffer the reproach for Christ, for if we wait to only give to those who are in return thankful, we are not reflecting the life of our crucified Christ! The Lord gave himself completely away on the cross to all the unthankful, and he also died for his enemies! Will they all accept his gift, no, very many poor souls will reject it.

The great challenge is to Love beyond the rejection, and love and pray for those who despitefully use you! I've been going threw this challenge quite a lot lately with my neighbors! Please pray for me, as I gain more Christ-like character in this! But I do agree with MM about being wise in giving, especially to those who will take what's given to feed an evil addiction! Yes, must be Spirit-led in this. My heart does go out to the real needy ones, who are sincere. A hug might do more good than a big mac! But my closing statement brings me back to the thought of not letting our spirits and hearts turn a little hard, from being abused in these things, which from experience is very easy to do, but keep in mind always that Jesus was almost always around the poor and the needy! And the Bible says and reminds us in saying, give to the poor, give to every man that asks of you, if he asks for your coat give him your cloak also, as you will heap coals upon his head!

So here is my question for us. If Christ commands us, and yes this was a command, give to every man that asks of you, what are we going to give to him? If no money, then what? Some ideas- a kind and loving word that is worth apples of gold in pictures of silver, maybe a ride, offer him or her to cut your grass for a meal or two, sit him down and read to him your Bible, offer a to pray for him! We must be careful in these things, because the way we treat everyone around us, is how we treat God! Shalom

It appears that from my understanding you have a kind heart.

People indeed would take advantage of this quality.

So when we see children or animals suffering or those who we think don't deserve to suffer we become pained.

So what do we do?

Like the others have said, its about giving what they need not what they want. It's about waking up to what Jesus meant.

Lets say, for instance, your neighbours are druggies and their children are suffering from lack of basic necessities. You love your neighbours in a way that sees their failings, and the fact that you also know your very own failings, its hard then not to want to give them food and clothing etc. We know life is hard.

We don't like it when innocent victims suffer...yet we also don't want to be a doormat and used.

Maybe you could tell the parents they need to care for their children better, and risk being assaulted out of revenge.

So, in light of the above dilemma, one thing that has been revealed in me today is to just go the extra mile... And keep going the extra mile, give the children what they need....because eventually it will make the parents so uncomfortable they will be eventually be forced into changing. it's an indirect assault!

We will suffer their pain, yes....

But....

Unless we are happy to give them what they need, and being like Our Father in Heaven, we are now in a state of perfection and our giving to sad kids now becomes a way to invoke a breakdown of barriers, and therefor a change in the owners. Because they sense our Love for them.

Well, sorry that was a long ramble, i'm really talking out loud and I think thats what Jesus meant by the below verse...

Matthew 5:38-42 ESV​

​

​

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.​

 

[Derek88]

It appears that from my understanding you have a kind heart.

People indeed would take advantage of this quality.

So when we see children or animals suffering or those who we think don't deserve to suffer we become pained.

So what do we do?

Like the others have said, its about giving what they need not what they want. It's about waking up to what Jesus meant.

Lets say, for instance, your neighbours are druggies and their children are suffering from lack of basic necessities. You love your neighbours in a way that sees their failings, and the fact that you also know your very own failings, its hard then not to want to give them food and clothing etc. We know life is hard.

We don't like it when innocent victims suffer...yet we also don't want to be a doormat and used.

Maybe you could tell the parents they need to care for their children better, and risk being assaulted out of revenge.

So, in light of the above dilemma, one thing that has been revealed in me today is to just go the extra mile... And keep going the extra mile, give the children what they need....because eventually it will make the parents so uncomfortable they will be eventually be forced into changing. it's an indirect assault!

We will suffer their pain, yes....

But....

Unless we are happy to give them what they need, and being like Our Father in Heaven, we are now in a state of perfection and our giving to sad kids now becomes a way to invoke a breakdown of barriers, and therefor a change in the owners. Because they sense our Love for them.

Well, sorry that was a long ramble, i'm really talking out loud and I think thats what Jesus meant by the below verse...

Matthew 5:38-42 ESV​

​

​

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.​

Amen, amen, and amen!

 

[Cosia]

There are many homeless people on the streets of Manchester city center, just as there must be in most big cities around the world. U cannot rely on my judgement and I can only help one person at a time.
On my way to the centre I always ask God to guide me to the right person.

One day a lady caught my eye. She was sat near the curb holding a tiny umbrella up
She was wet and shivering. She looked very sad and my heart went out to her. I didn't give her
MOney. Instead I bought a big all day breakfast smd a coffee. When I gave it to her she gave me a big smile, said thank you and dug straight into it, she was starving. I told her it was ftom Jesus and she looked up at me with a massive smile on her face. I told her Jesus loved her and her face literally shone. I walked away with tears on my eyes.
Who led me to her? Jesus of course, who really gave it to her, Jesus of course. God will guide who to help and in what way.

ly.

 

[Musicmaster]

There are many homeless people on the streets of Manchester city center, just as there must be in most big cities around the world. U cannot rely on my judgement and I can only help one person at a time.
On my way to the centre I always ask God to guide me to the right person.

One day a lady caught my eye. She was sat near the curb holding a tiny umbrella up
She was wet and shivering. She looked very sad and my heart went out to her. I didn't give her
MOney. Instead I bought a big all day breakfast smd a coffee. When I gave it to her she gave me a big smile, said thank you and dug straight into it, she was starving. I told her it was ftom Jesus and she looked up at me with a massive smile on her face. I told her Jesus loved her and her face literally shone. I walked away with tears on my eyes.
Who led me to her? Jesus of course, who really gave it to her, Jesus of course. God will guide who to help and in what way.

ly.

Good testimony, Cosia.

And there you have it...Jesus led you to her. He was involved.

What's remarkable is that there are many "homeless" people who prefer that lifestyle. Yes, So few who live in homes and have jobs and family ever take the time to go out there and get to know some of those people. I've been told numerous times, over and over, that the home less lifestyle is preferable to all the burdensome responsibilities of taxes, government, and just people in general.

Yes, some DON'T like being homeless, but many do. That's the dirty little secret that media never broadcasts to the world audience.

Some are suffering from mental disorders, and FAR too many are suffering from drug addiction and alcoholism. The world is broken. We can't fix it, as Jesus pointed out:

Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Matthew 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
John 12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

All we can do is pray the Lord show to us, and equip us, to know His will in all things, and to make our little corners of the world the best we can for all we are able to minister to.

MM

 

[Via dolarossa]

Good testimony, Cosia.

And there you have it...Jesus led you to her. He was involved.

What's remarkable is that there are many "homeless" people who prefer that lifestyle. Yes, So few who live in homes and have jobs and family ever take the time to go out there and get to know some of those people. I've been told numerous times, over and over, that the home less lifestyle is preferable to all the burdensome responsibilities of taxes, government, and just people in general.

Yes, some DON'T like being homeless, but many do. That's the dirty little secret that media never broadcasts to the world audience.

Some are suffering from mental disorders, and FAR too many are suffering from drug addiction and alcoholism. The world is broken. We can't fix it, as Jesus pointed out:

Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Matthew 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
John 12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

All we can do is pray the Lord show to us, and equip us, to know His will in all things, and to make our little corners of the world the best we can for all we are able to minister to.

MM

Yes a lot homeless people prefer being homeless because they don’t want to be burdened by expenses or responsibilities. My job is getting more and more difficult, yet the the work I do is not hard.

It’s all the responsibility I have to deal with. The system puts too much pressure on people to perform to high standards and jump through hoops whilst giving little in return.

I even have to pay to go to work now

 

[Via dolarossa]

There are many homeless people on the streets of Manchester city center, just as there must be in most big cities around the world. U cannot rely on my judgement and I can only help one person at a time.
On my way to the centre I always ask God to guide me to the right person.

One day a lady caught my eye. She was sat near the curb holding a tiny umbrella up
She was wet and shivering. She looked very sad and my heart went out to her. I didn't give her
MOney. Instead I bought a big all day breakfast smd a coffee. When I gave it to her she gave me a big smile, said thank you and dug straight into it, she was starving. I told her it was ftom Jesus and she looked up at me with a massive smile on her face. I told her Jesus loved her and her face literally shone. I walked away with tears on my eyes.
Who led me to her? Jesus of course, who really gave it to her, Jesus of course. God will guide who to help and in what way.

ly.

I think intuition is a blessing.

Sometimes I don’t know if I’m being led by the Spirit or I’m being led by intuition or if there is much of a difference.

Maybe they are the same thing.

What do you think?

 

[Lanolin]

I have touched on homelessness in another thread (Habitat for Humanity).

It's a huge problem, and not only that but dealing with broken homes as well.

I don't give money to people as a rule because I don't often carry it or if I do it's not 'spare change' I can just give away, spare change maybe only 20 cents. Mostly cos I am not a bank. When I did banking in my job I had to take all the cash to the bank to get this 'spare change' so there would be enough in the till.

If people wanted it they could not have it because it was not actually my money to give.

 

[Lanolin]

Sometimes people wanted cash out and i would give it to them on the EFTPOS though.
If they wanted free books, you can get them from the library if you ask to keep the withdrawn books.

As for living on the streets, for many, especially street kids, they do it because living at home is WORSE. They get abused at home. Most are runaways. Even if they look adult, they may not be emotionally, and you can't say 'oh they can easily find work' because even if they do, it's often not enough to make rent. It has to do with whoever is controlling the economy.

Its deliberately set up somehow so that poor people cannot seem to get ahead no matter what they do. in NZ the economy used to be very good and egalitarian, but now the gap between rich and poor is very wide. Thanks to economic reforms by various govts.

 

[Musicmaster]

Yes a lot homeless people prefer being homeless because they don’t want to be burdened by expenses or responsibilities. My job is getting more and more difficult, yet the the work I do is not hard.

It’s all the responsibility I have to deal with. The system puts too much pressure on people to perform to high standards and jump through hoops whilst giving little in return.

I even have to pay to go to work now

Blessedly, we in the office where I work have been sent home to telework for more than two years now. This COVID nonsense has been a blessing in that respect.

MM

 

[Cosia]

I think intuition is a blessing.

Sometimes I don’t know if I’m being led by the Spirit or I’m being led by intuition or if there is much of a difference.

Maybe they are the same thing.

What do you think?

That is a good question Via. I don't know the answer to it. Intuition is a gift. But also if we pray to be led I believe we will be. The answer may not be what we were expecting though.

 

[Lanolin]

One thing people might not understand is service is reciprocal. The person you serve may not be able to pay you back until they are much older and have the means but you've modelled kindness and they will always remember that. Also you can train others for service.

There is a difference between being a servant and being a slave.