the more people who come to worship God the better! Waht bothers me is all the little churches that are doing little.
Why Are There Mega Churches?
- Thread starter followerofchrist72
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Glomung
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what do we call the people who did as he said???????????
We call them naive, trusting sheep, the unwashed masses. The vast majority of mankind has neither the wit nor gumption to question their leaders. Staying on top of the wayward behavior of our leaders takes work. Especially these days, questioning your so called leaders is like poking a dragon with a sharp stick, it can be bad for your health.
We call them naive, trusting sheep, the unwashed masses. The vast majority of mankind has neither the wit nor gumption to question their leaders. Staying on top of the wayward behavior of our leaders takes work. Especially these days, questioning your so called leaders is like poking a dragon with a sharp stick, it can be bad for your health.
We are a little Church...trying to reach our community....some days I want to shake the dust off my sandals and move on. We have poor and we have very little rich, with an extremely small middle class & middle aged population, lots of 'seniors' retired and on disability. Should I abandon my little Church for the big ones of grandeur 45 minutes away? I am on the brink of not being able to pay my bills-might as well follow the money trail to the cities or out of this state.....
Don't these people need an example too? Little Churches can do a lot-if the people in them are doing the work of the Lord. Same goes with 'mega' churches. Not everybody can afford to spend $50 a week in gas to drive to the city. I can't....
The real problem is the fragmentation of the Body of Christ following 'winds of doctrine'. No wonder we are failing-we can't even agree on the doctrine of Salvation.
Listen brother..............you stay right there with that little group of believers. From what I have learned of you..........
they need you YOU!
Thanks Major! 
I agree w/ this...it depends on that person's anointing. IMO I think it just depends on how God works through them, he gives some alittle bit to do..and others alot b/c he knows what they can handle, God works through both the big and small church. Just b/c someone has a smaller job doesn't mean their useless and just b/c the anointing on someone is so strong the attract dozens doesn't mean they're fake.
Of course. I believe I mentioned that (whether or not they are actually saved). For me, the process wasn't as swift as I had expected. Yes, I said the prayer and accepted Jesus into my heart, but it took me actually building a relationship with God for me to become confident in my salvation. Do people who say the prayer and accept Christ as their savior immediately become saved each time? We don't know, but probably not. All I know, is that it takes much more than just that. It's a lifetime dedication to Christ. It's not just being a "Sunday Christian". It's not where you can go on willfully sinning. I believe a lot of people in the mega churches probably do not have a deep relationship with God, because from what I can tell, the message is usually watered down. However, these churches do give a great "base" for which one can get started and they also highly recommend community groups (aka bible study) in order to dig deeper. So if someone doesn't just come to church on Sunday, but decides to read the bible and fellowship, I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation.
Tinker............you said:
" I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation".
Are you aware that is exactly what the Scriptures say will be taking place in the time right before Christ returns????
2 Tim. 4:1-4
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
No where in the Scriptures does it say that churches are to give out a "watered down" message.
"Preach" here means to HERALD as would the kings men when giving a formal message in an authoritive way.
Preachers are to be consistant and never fear what is said that might hurt someones feelings when it is said. The ministers personal feelings are not the ground for reproof, doctrine alone is that ground.
WHY????
Because the time will come when men will grow "itching ears". That means they will want to be tickled by preachers who do not preach the Word of God. Many pastors bow to the wishes of the ungodly in their congregation who only want to hear what pleases them because they are there to be entertained, not corrected or even told about their sin.
NO Tinker ......the church whether it is a mega or a mini can not give out a "watered down" gospel.!!!
In fact there is no such thing!!!
I can tell you factually that the preaching of the literal, unapolagetic Word of God will do one of two things.
1. It will push the un-godly, religious church crowd away and to a place where the gospel is in fact watered down. Those people will then settle in their pew, listen, be happy, tickled and do nothing for the cause of Christ.
2. It will draw the real believers who want to get things done for Christ and reach out and save the lost.
I do not know about everyone else, but when I stand before the Lord Jesus Christ, I want HIm to know that I did all I could with the time He gave me and I fulfilled His command...........
"Go ye into all the world and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost".
How about you explain what you mean by "wattered down" so that I can determine if we're on the same page. I think we are talking about different things. The pastor at my mega churches 100% teach the word of God but it doesn't always go as deep as SOME churches can. Most definitely is God being discussed, and of course we use the bible and are given a lesson plan to take notes during service. Sin is brought up, being a "fake" Christian is constantly brought up , and ministering to others is always stressed. Also, they have a TON of ministries and a large amt. Of volunteers.
The only thing I don't like about my particular pastor is that he, at times, will go from one part of the bible to another too much (too many various scriptures) but he's simply linking things together. Or the scriptures he uses are very short in nature. He also uses a lot of jokes throughout service and although nice, sometimes it can feel excessive.
Well, it was the word YOU used in comment #27.
"I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation."
To me that meant something less than the truth. Something easy to digest because it sounds good.
When water is added to anything it lessens the strength of the original......correct???
I believe that we are on the same page my dear as it appears that is what you were saying.
Every Pastor has his own unique style of preaching. That is not what I was referring to. I was speaking to the HEART of any sermon which has to be Christ.
If a sermon is given with the text being Exodus 3:4, it MUST be about Christ.
That is what Paul encouraged Timothy to be faithful in doing......."Preach the Word"!!!
Like I said it's hard to discribe. I, as well as others, cobsider his style more "surface level" and he seems to say similar things (I'm starting to notice) each service. Same stories, etc. Then again, we get a lot of new people in there every Sunday and his stories get them coming back. Of course the stories are linked to the bible somehow, some way. It's just a little excessive I would say, at times. Many who go to smaller churches or have gone agree. At the same time isn't there somewhere in the bible which says church will cause division?
The original question to start this thread was................
"Why are there mega churches".
As I re-read the conversations I realized that we had not really answered that question but had in stead bashed the mega churches and that is not right.
There many, many huge churches which are doing a great work for Christ!
Mega churcheshuge memeberships uselly come from years of dedicated work by their leaders. They preach the WOrd, and expect their membership to help.
These mega churches has great preachers who are excellant in delagating work out,
They place dedicated people in charge of the bus ministry.
They place dedicated people in charge of the visitation ministry.
They place people in charge of the care for the elderly.
They place people in charge of the youth and on and on and on.
These pastors are in efffect forced by the laege membership to be businessmen and they are always in the process of having to make decisions that effect the whole church.
The ones who have adabted and do a great job, you never hear anything about.
The ones that become more concerned with money and income are the ones we all hear about. They believe they are above reproach and low and behold, they cross that line of no return.
I have no proof and can only say what I have seen and know about, but the men I know who have been in charge of a mega church uselly.....uselly, have been blessed by the Lord in a wonderful financial way.
Example. One of the most succesful churches in Florida had a member die about 30 years ago. That member in his will left that church $20 million dollars, Yes...... million with an M. Some here already know the name of that church so there is no need to post it.
What is the point??????
With that kind of money, and a good man who had nothing on his mind except to futher the cause for Christ was then able to pay for a youth director, build and pay cash for an educational building and a gymnasism including a swiming pool and 3 lane bowling alley.
With that kind of facility, and a young energetic person in charge, of couse the youth and young couples flocked to the church. A wonderful preacher used the gift and as a result it is now a mega church. Not all are like that example but I can assure you that the money to do things and pay for stuff is the one thing that can change a little church to a mega church overnight.
"Why are there mega churches".
As I re-read the conversations I realized that we had not really answered that question but had in stead bashed the mega churches and that is not right.
There many, many huge churches which are doing a great work for Christ!
Mega churcheshuge memeberships uselly come from years of dedicated work by their leaders. They preach the WOrd, and expect their membership to help.
These mega churches has great preachers who are excellant in delagating work out,
They place dedicated people in charge of the bus ministry.
They place dedicated people in charge of the visitation ministry.
They place people in charge of the care for the elderly.
They place people in charge of the youth and on and on and on.
These pastors are in efffect forced by the laege membership to be businessmen and they are always in the process of having to make decisions that effect the whole church.
The ones who have adabted and do a great job, you never hear anything about.
The ones that become more concerned with money and income are the ones we all hear about. They believe they are above reproach and low and behold, they cross that line of no return.
I have no proof and can only say what I have seen and know about, but the men I know who have been in charge of a mega church uselly.....uselly, have been blessed by the Lord in a wonderful financial way.
Example. One of the most succesful churches in Florida had a member die about 30 years ago. That member in his will left that church $20 million dollars, Yes...... million with an M. Some here already know the name of that church so there is no need to post it.
What is the point??????
With that kind of money, and a good man who had nothing on his mind except to futher the cause for Christ was then able to pay for a youth director, build and pay cash for an educational building and a gymnasism including a swiming pool and 3 lane bowling alley.
With that kind of facility, and a young energetic person in charge, of couse the youth and young couples flocked to the church. A wonderful preacher used the gift and as a result it is now a mega church. Not all are like that example but I can assure you that the money to do things and pay for stuff is the one thing that can change a little church to a mega church overnight.
NO dear. Nothing in Scripture says that church will cause division.
That is exactly opposite of what the Scriptures say that God wants. The Lord wants us to be in unity, in love and peaceful.
God wants oder and not confusion and disorder.
Church is never the problem BUT just as in a business or club or family there is alwys those who simply just can not get along with others. They tend to cause stife and discord.
The Bible has much to say about causing discord among people. Most is found in Proverbs. It can be causing strife, contentions, brawling, discord or divisions among people. IMO it can also been seen right here on this web site.
Let us look at what causes these problems among groups of people and what we can do about it. This will work in any area of life.
1.
In Proverbs 6:12-19 we have a description of a person who causes discord followed by seven things God hates. Verse 15 tells what happens to people who live this kind of a lifestyle.
2.
We find in Proverbs 15:18a that "A wrathful man stirs up strife."
3.
In Proverbs 16:28a we are told "A froward man sows strife."
4.
Proverbs 22:10 says "Cast out the scorner, and contentions shall go out; yes, strife and reproach shall cease."
5.
Proverbs 26:20 tells us a "talebearer" causes strife.
6.
Proverbs 28:25a says a proud-hearted person stirs up strife.
7.
Proverbs 29:22a says an angry man stirs up strife.
So we can see a person who causes discord through strife and divisions has a spiritual problem. Such a person is a scorner, a talebearer, angry, proud, froward, wrathful, wicked, hateful spirited. This person is not happy if people are getting along.
This kind of person is not happy with himself therfore he can never be happy around other. He/she is constantly causing people to fight with one another.
This goes on in all walks of life. You see it in community gatherings, churches, businesses, schools. There are some people who have a spirit of divisiveness that drives them to bring discord to people groups. Perhaps you have seen people like this. They are not happy when everything is running smoothly. If these people have a hidden agenda, they are bad news to the social order.
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Hi Major I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Would you condemn Luther for causing the largest divisions of the church that I know of in history?
If somehow Lord Jesus Himself could preach in any one of the example churches given above, how much division, strife, discord, etc. do you think it would cause in that church? How many people do you think would be left standing after His constant rebuking, threats of condemnation, conviction of sin, call to repentance, and many, many other hard teachings? Human nature hasn't changed much since then, if anything it's even worse.
I know many christians (lower 'c') that tell me in their self-righteousness; "Jesus wouldn't say that about me". Well He already did, and I imagine those would be the first to go...
So how many would be left standing? The examples in the Scriptures are always a "FEW".
We don't have examples of Lord Jesus telling jokes in the Scriptures, laughing, or even smiling for that matter. However we do know he wept because no one would receive His Word.
Like I've stated previously, people use the term "Serious as a heart attack" when something is really, really serious. My guess is a heart attack would be fun-and-games to how "serious" Jesus is about His Word. It saddens me to think how many christians (lower 'c') will only come to that conclusion when "absent from the body and present with The Lord" and by then it's too late.
We know not everyone goes to church for the same reason, for some it's a family tradition, others it's to feel 'Spiritual'. We know from the Scriptures, the Wheat will always grow with the Weeds, and I believe until the coming of the Kingdom, this will always be the case when we talk about the church.
So is it the job of the Pastor not to offend, tell stories/jokes, and continually teach the "Milk" of the Word to keep the church growing and at peace? Or, evolve in to the "MEAT" of the Scriptures which we know divides but saves.
I believe it's the "MEAT" of the Scriptures that leads to saving Faith and if it never gets taught than what is really the point of that church, mega or otherwise? Superficial teaching, coffee, and fellowship will not save the sinner.
We have no examples in the Scriptures of alter calls, signing a card, or just stumbling in to the Kingdom of Heaven. However, we have Lord Jesus Himself stating one must "AGONIZE" to enter the Kingdom, and it will only be a "FEW" of the "FEW". (Luke 13 23)
One must empty themselves and forsake everything for the Glory of God, it's the hardest thing you will ever have to do. I don't read of anyone having a good time while traveling down that "Narrow" path. Isaiah was sawn in-half, John the Baptist be-headed, Peter crucified upside down, Steven stoned...
So does the Pastor refine by fire and "Agonize" along with his congregation and all the strife and division it will cause for the Glory of God? Or is it coffee, music, and fun and games as long as there is unity, peace, and happiness for everyone?
If somehow Lord Jesus Himself could preach in any one of the example churches given above, how much division, strife, discord, etc. do you think it would cause in that church? How many people do you think would be left standing after His constant rebuking, threats of condemnation, conviction of sin, call to repentance, and many, many other hard teachings? Human nature hasn't changed much since then, if anything it's even worse.
I know many christians (lower 'c') that tell me in their self-righteousness; "Jesus wouldn't say that about me". Well He already did, and I imagine those would be the first to go...
So how many would be left standing? The examples in the Scriptures are always a "FEW".
We don't have examples of Lord Jesus telling jokes in the Scriptures, laughing, or even smiling for that matter. However we do know he wept because no one would receive His Word.
Like I've stated previously, people use the term "Serious as a heart attack" when something is really, really serious. My guess is a heart attack would be fun-and-games to how "serious" Jesus is about His Word. It saddens me to think how many christians (lower 'c') will only come to that conclusion when "absent from the body and present with The Lord" and by then it's too late.
We know not everyone goes to church for the same reason, for some it's a family tradition, others it's to feel 'Spiritual'. We know from the Scriptures, the Wheat will always grow with the Weeds, and I believe until the coming of the Kingdom, this will always be the case when we talk about the church.
So is it the job of the Pastor not to offend, tell stories/jokes, and continually teach the "Milk" of the Word to keep the church growing and at peace? Or, evolve in to the "MEAT" of the Scriptures which we know divides but saves.
I believe it's the "MEAT" of the Scriptures that leads to saving Faith and if it never gets taught than what is really the point of that church, mega or otherwise? Superficial teaching, coffee, and fellowship will not save the sinner.
We have no examples in the Scriptures of alter calls, signing a card, or just stumbling in to the Kingdom of Heaven. However, we have Lord Jesus Himself stating one must "AGONIZE" to enter the Kingdom, and it will only be a "FEW" of the "FEW". (Luke 13 23)
One must empty themselves and forsake everything for the Glory of God, it's the hardest thing you will ever have to do. I don't read of anyone having a good time while traveling down that "Narrow" path. Isaiah was sawn in-half, John the Baptist be-headed, Peter crucified upside down, Steven stoned...
So does the Pastor refine by fire and "Agonize" along with his congregation and all the strife and division it will cause for the Glory of God? Or is it coffee, music, and fun and games as long as there is unity, peace, and happiness for everyone?
Well my friend.........this is the first time anyone has disagreed with me (rofl).
But was Luthers action actually a division? That is the question.
The RCC was not preaching salvation by grace through faith and He actually brought about the correct doctrine according to the Scriptures.
As for the preaching of Jesus, let me ask you......how many were with Jesus at the cross? (4).
As I said.......preaching the pure gospel will bring some closer and push the make believers away.
You said..............
"I believe it's the "MEAT" of the Scriptures that leads to saving Faith and if it never gets taught than what is really the point of that church, mega or otherwise? Superficial teaching, coffee, and fellowship will not save the sinner."
Then you said..........
"I believe it's the "MEAT" of the Scriptures that leads to saving Faith and if it never gets taught than what is really the point of that church, mega or otherwise? Superficial teaching, coffee, and fellowship will not save the sinner."
Absolutely correct!
My dear brother, that is exactly what I said so are you sure we are in disagreement here?
Then this..................
"So does the Pastor refine by fire and "Agonize" along with his congregation and all the strife and division it will cause for the Glory of God? Or is it coffee, music, and fun and games as long as there is unity, peace, and happiness for everyone?"
He must preach the Word! That is his calling. If he thinks he is to be serving coffee, and tea, maybe he should be working in a resturant. Listen brother, I know how old fashioned I sound but that is because I am old fashioned. The people who run from a pastor preaching the Word of God needed to run away. If they stayed, they would be the ones causing the striff and division.
Unity is agreat thing, but it must never come at the expence of the truth of God's Word, IMHO.
L
little flower
Guest
In my opinion the division takes place outside the church. Those who prove to be real followers of Christ then establish the church by being 'living stones' of God's temple.
See: "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man destroys the Tempe of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1.Cor.3:16,17)
-and: "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." (John13:35)
People thus are divided before (!) they become the 'Body of Christ', the church.
For that Jesus said, " 'Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ....' " (Mat.10:34-39)
See: "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man destroys the Tempe of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1.Cor.3:16,17)
-and: "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." (John13:35)
People thus are divided before (!) they become the 'Body of Christ', the church.
For that Jesus said, " 'Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ....' " (Mat.10:34-39)
Apologies no disagreements, the context of your post just wasn't clear or at least not obvious? As written, it could apply to most if not all the Saints in Heaven who were executed NOT for "Going With the Flow", but for causing division and discord.
Look at the example of Steven, the Scriptures tell us the took off their coats. Why? I believe first, they didn't want to get blood on them, and second they didn't want any impediment in letting loose with those stones.
Boy did Steven PO those Jews!
Anyway it's a complex article for the average reader and I suppose if you added some additional paragraphs of the article, the context would have been more clear.
Putting myself in the shoes of the average reader of your post I may come away thinking; "Even though my Pastor teaches heresy, Major says not to stir up strife in the church". Actually even in my own shoes without reading the reference article in its entirety, that's the message I come away with, but I know better but some do not.
As far as Martin Luther, I guess it depends where you are standing. The RCC would consider him a divider and a hieratic to this day, and the fact that at least 20% of Christians are Protestant would say there is a division. Now we could debate Protestants vs. Catholics and which is the true church but that's a completely different topic and I'd like to respect the topic of the OP.
No disagreements.
Look at the example of Steven, the Scriptures tell us the took off their coats. Why? I believe first, they didn't want to get blood on them, and second they didn't want any impediment in letting loose with those stones.
Boy did Steven PO those Jews!
Anyway it's a complex article for the average reader and I suppose if you added some additional paragraphs of the article, the context would have been more clear.
Putting myself in the shoes of the average reader of your post I may come away thinking; "Even though my Pastor teaches heresy, Major says not to stir up strife in the church". Actually even in my own shoes without reading the reference article in its entirety, that's the message I come away with, but I know better but some do not.
As far as Martin Luther, I guess it depends where you are standing. The RCC would consider him a divider and a hieratic to this day, and the fact that at least 20% of Christians are Protestant would say there is a division. Now we could debate Protestants vs. Catholics and which is the true church but that's a completely different topic and I'd like to respect the topic of the OP.
No disagreements.
I guess if mankind could do it right, there would be a Church building open for God's children to worship the One True God at the same time (Sabbath) using the same book following the same doctrine in every village, town city, burrow, etc....
Size wouldn't mean anything-the quality of the gathered would. Now wouldn't that be a planetary spiritual family gathering too remember?
Size wouldn't mean anything-the quality of the gathered would. Now wouldn't that be a planetary spiritual family gathering too remember?
Donato, you stated,,,,,,,,,,
"Even though my Pastor teaches heresy, Major says not to stir up strife in the church". Actually even in my own shoes without reading the reference article in its entirety, that's the message I come away with, but I know better but some do not."
But what did I actually say..................
"Unity is agreat thing, but it must never come at the expence of the truth of God's Word, IMHO."
I think you may have misunderstood me.
There was nothing said by me (I don't think & I looked as well) about anyone preaching heresy and Major saying to leave him alone and do not stir up striff.
That was not the context of the comment. I assume because you did not say, that you are talking to comment #34 where I stated...................
"So we can see a person who causes discord through strife and divisions has a spiritual problem. Such a person is a scorner, a talebearer, angry, proud, froward, wrathful, wicked, hateful spirited. This person is not happy if people are getting along.
This kind of person is not happy with himself therfore he can never be happy around other. He/she is constantly causing people to fight with one another.
This goes on in all walks of life. You see it in community gatherings, churches, businesses, schools. There are some people who have a spirit of divisiveness that drives them to bring discord to people groups. Perhaps you have seen people like this. They are not happy when everything is running smoothly. If these people have a hidden agenda, they are bad news to the social order."
As you can see, there is nothing there about allowing a preacher to preach heresy and say nothing. I am of the opposite opinion and said so in comment #36................
"He must preach the Word! That is his calling. If he thinks he is to be serving coffee, and tea, maybe he should be working in a resturant. Listen brother, I know how old fashioned I sound but that is because I am old fashioned."
I thought I was clear but If I was not I apologize. Let me be clear. Church members should not allow heresy to be preached from the pullpit and that is totally differant from just speaking gossip, and rumors and causing arguments and discord among the flock and such. That was my intent and it looks like it was missed.