Why Did Jesus Have To Be Born Of A Virgin ?

CCW95A said:
The Catholic Church does force people on what to believe.

In 1620 Pope Paul the 5th forbade anything contrary to the teaching of Mary's immaculate conception to be said publicly under threat of excommunication
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CCW, if by the Catholic Church you mean the people within it, the answer is no they can't. They can't force me or you. All they can do is profess the belief and demand that if anyone wants to be counted as part of the Church, they will have to profess it as well. If they don't and, say, priests or bishops are aware of it (it's usually only more aware with clergy and politicians since they make their positions public), they will withhold the sacraments from them because they have a responsibility not to allow blasphemy from happening.

This is why we profess our faith by saying the Nicene creed at every Mass.

If you say they force meaning they go up to someone and shake their heads and say "believe! believe!" then that would be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. No one has that kind of ability. Even if the person responded "Fine! I believe!" who's to say he isn't lying?
 
Major said:
Fair enough.

Military service really would not apply IMO as those in the military are there under orders and freedom of choice is not in question. We are free to move in and out of any church and that is quite different.
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Indeed -- I gave an analogy -- there are similarities and dissimilarities. But people are free to accept Church teaching and stay or reject it and leave if they wish. If someone rejects Church teaching but wants to stay (many do), they are welcome to continue going to Mass and Church events -- in fact, they are encouraged to...but if their rejection is known, come time for Communion, the priest has an obligation to withhold the Eucharist from this person until a correction is made.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Major, it's come down to that we each believe in two different translations of certain passages.

You shared a link for me to read.
Here is a link for you to read: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/hail-mary-conceived-without-sin

I guarantee you, each of us can read these, up and down, and neither of one us will feel any different. All we will do is say "Thanks for the link. I read it and think it is all flawed."
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Brother......" "Thanks for the link. I read it and think it is all flawed." :)
 
Major said:
Hey.......How is your wife coming along? I pray that all is well with her and things are progressing safely.
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I appreciate the prayers, but I thought you knew, Major. We lost the child. God has given us comfort, but some days can be more difficult than others.
 
Major said:
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was supporting your comment 100% my brother. I know you said what you meant to say and I was not inferring that you didn't. I was agreeing with you and offering support. I am sorry you did not understand it as that.
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I guess I did. Still what I wrote amazed me! I praise God for it, even if the devil cause confusion :)
 
CCW95A said:
Anything you do that is against your own conscience is sin!! If you are not sure if you should do something, that is not of faith, and what ever is not of faith is sin!
This is why we have a conscience in which it warns us when either do wrong or are about to do wrong.
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Try reading what I actually wrote.
You assume that your conscience is somehow knowledgeable and virtuous, even perhaps guided by God.
That is a false assumption.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Your conscience is worthless. It is based on your own presuppositions and biases, many of which are false.
Every single Moslem who kills Christians is following his conscience. As were the German soldiers guarding the concentration camps.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
CCW, if by the Catholic Church you mean the people within it, the answer is no they can't. They can't force me or you. All they can do is profess the belief and demand that if anyone wants to be counted as part of the Church, they will have to profess it as well. If they don't and, say, priests or bishops are aware of it (it's usually only more aware with clergy and politicians since they make their positions public), they will withhold the sacraments from them because they have a responsibility not to allow blasphemy from happening.

This is why we profess our faith by saying the Nicene creed at every Mass.

If you say they force meaning they go up to someone and shake their heads and say "believe! believe!" then that would be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. No one has that kind of ability. Even if the person responded "Fine! I believe!" who's to say he isn't lying?
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Ok, I am leaving this one alone for now, unless the Lord tells me differently. Have a nice day, :)
 
CCW95A said:
Ok, I am leaving this one alone for now, unless the Lord tells me differently. Have a nice day, :)
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You do the same.
And if you like, you are welcome to send me a personal message if you really are curious. I very much would love to give you a direct and clear answer -- it just needs to be divided up so that I can do that.
 
Glomung said:
Try reading what I actually wrote.
You assume that your conscience is somehow knowledgeable and virtuous, even perhaps guided by God.
That is a false assumption.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Your conscience is worthless. It is based on your own presuppositions and biases, many of which are false.
Every single Moslem who kills Christians is following his conscience. As were the German soldiers guarding the concentration camps.
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That is funny as all the Apostles made sure their own consciences where clear.
Having a "new heart" which is Jesus Christ himself who dwells within his Church is not evil or corrupt!!!!

Heb_13:18 Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.

1Pe_3:16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

2Ti_1:3 I thank God whom I serve, as did my ancestors, with a clear conscience, as I remember you constantly in my prayers night and day.

1Ti_3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.

1Ti_1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

Those who do not have a clear "conscience" have no faith!!!
 
What we have here is confusion over the use of the word conscience and it's several different meanings.
I'll not bother, I don't have the time and you are not in the state of mind to honestly consider anything I should write anyway.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I appreciate the prayers, but I thought you knew, Major. We lost the child. God has given us comfort, but some days can be more difficult than others.
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NO sir! I did not know that. Somewhere along the line I missed that news. I am so sorry for you both. I know your wife does not know me but please tell her that she has old fashioned Baptist praying for her comfort and recovery.
 
Out of respect for the OP, hey thats me, what ya know about that. Lets get back on topic. There is other post to debate different religions and groups and all that man made junk.
Mary was a chosen vessle. She is not to be worshipped or anything like that. She had an assignment from the The Father just like we all do. The big difference is Mary excepted her assigment where many are just to busy or to dull to even know His plan for their lives.

As far as this post is concerned Mary's role in this stops after giving birth.
Any questions.........look for the Q and A section....:D
Blessings
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
She is not to be worshipped or anything like that.
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I agree, we should get back to the topic. But just in case there has been misunderstanding (because I'd really hate for people to mistake what I said), I'd never suggest or even condone the worship of Mary. I don't think that was every what was being discussed.

We're all in agreement here that worship is reserved for God alone--period.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I agree, we should get back to the topic. But just in case there has been misunderstanding (because I'd really hate for people to mistake what I said), I'd never suggest or even condone the worship of Mary. I don't think that was every what was being discussed.

We're all in agreement here that worship is reserved for God alone--period.
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No brother it is all good.I just added that as I was kind of in the spirit of laughter.
Blessings
 
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