That is not 100 percent at all.
why *didn't * God forgive Judas?
- Thread starter autumn oddity
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So what is it that I said that does not line up with this ? Just asken lol
Before you get this cemented in your thinking...may i suggest you read Romans 9:12-23. It paints a very good picture of things
Let's compare Judas with Peter.
Both disciples.
Both do something bad in connection with Christ.
Judas betrays Jesus. Peter denies knowing Jesus, nor even being a follower.
The telltale story which separates these two for me is when Judas says that the expensive perfume used to anoint Jesus should be sold and the money given to the poor. This shows Judas' heart. Judas did not believe nor care about Jesus in a loving way. Peter would have fought in a battle for Jesus. He pulled the sword that night in Gethsemane. Judas disagreed with Jesus in a way that he thought Jesus was wrong. Peter disagreed in allowing Jesus to be taken away and in Jesus washing his feet because He loved Jesus so much. His denial of Jesus wasn't because he didn't love Him. Peter showing up to watch the proceedings at all showed he cared. I think we can all relate to Peter's denial; he didn't want to die without purpose; he may have wanted to see if there was any way to break Jesus out of the control of the high priests; Jesus had been able to befuddle these Pharisees before and escape from their grasp, who could know what might happen during the interrogation. Jesus caused supernatural things to happen many times before, this could be another time. Peter wanted to be there.
With Judas though, we see he is just like Lucifer, in that, he knows Jesus very well, saw His power in the miracles, heard the Truth. Yet Judas still disagreed with Jesus. He was stealing money collected for Jesus' ministry. He was more comfortable with the high priests who were looking to capture and kill Jesus. He saw their offer of reward for betrayal and desired that more than protecting Jesus. In contrast, Peter's heart was all about protecting Jesus.
This gives us insight into the unbelief of Judas. That he later realized that he had innocent blood on his hands does not mean he changed his heart and believed in and on Jesus.
Both disciples.
Both do something bad in connection with Christ.
Judas betrays Jesus. Peter denies knowing Jesus, nor even being a follower.
The telltale story which separates these two for me is when Judas says that the expensive perfume used to anoint Jesus should be sold and the money given to the poor. This shows Judas' heart. Judas did not believe nor care about Jesus in a loving way. Peter would have fought in a battle for Jesus. He pulled the sword that night in Gethsemane. Judas disagreed with Jesus in a way that he thought Jesus was wrong. Peter disagreed in allowing Jesus to be taken away and in Jesus washing his feet because He loved Jesus so much. His denial of Jesus wasn't because he didn't love Him. Peter showing up to watch the proceedings at all showed he cared. I think we can all relate to Peter's denial; he didn't want to die without purpose; he may have wanted to see if there was any way to break Jesus out of the control of the high priests; Jesus had been able to befuddle these Pharisees before and escape from their grasp, who could know what might happen during the interrogation. Jesus caused supernatural things to happen many times before, this could be another time. Peter wanted to be there.
With Judas though, we see he is just like Lucifer, in that, he knows Jesus very well, saw His power in the miracles, heard the Truth. Yet Judas still disagreed with Jesus. He was stealing money collected for Jesus' ministry. He was more comfortable with the high priests who were looking to capture and kill Jesus. He saw their offer of reward for betrayal and desired that more than protecting Jesus. In contrast, Peter's heart was all about protecting Jesus.
This gives us insight into the unbelief of Judas. That he later realized that he had innocent blood on his hands does not mean he changed his heart and believed in and on Jesus.
The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas in Matt. 26:24...............
“The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born”.
God had, from ages past, determined that Christ would be betrayed by Judas, die on the cross for our sins, and be resurrected. This is what Jesus meant when He said He would “go just as it is written about him.” Nothing would stop the plan of God to provide salvation for mankind.
However, the fact that it was all foreordained does not excuse Judas or absolve him from the punishment he would suffer for his part in the drama. Judas made his own choices, and they were the source of his own damnation. Yet the choices fit perfectly into the sovereign plan of God. God controls not only the good, but also the evil of man to accomplish His own ends.
Rev. 17:17...........
"For God hath put into their hearts to fulfill His will and to agree, and to give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
Because of Adam, we are all born tainted and destined for condemnation due to sin. It is Jesus who came so that we could have His righteousness through our faith in Him and what He did for us---taking the punishment for sin on our behalf.
John 3:16 tells the whole gospel story in a nutshell. If one ignores the fact that without Christ, one is condemned, then one has perverted the gospel.
The second quote is off, for sure.
That was the only one I was replying to. The other must have been a left over after my blue tooth lost connection.
More than tainted with sin, born enslaved to sin. It's what, by nature who we are, apart from salvation. Destined to condemnation due to sin? No, not all. Yes under condemnation and guilt because of sin, but ordained or appointed to condemnation are those who die outside of Christ Jesus. There are those predestined, elected and chosen for salvation in Christ.. This is the gospel of Gods grace. Ephesians 1:5.. And therefore imputed the righteousness of Christ received by faith! It is the merits of Christ which justifies the believing! And John 3:16 is rich in truth I agree.
Babies are born tainted because they haven't sinned yet---therefore I say we are born tainted with sin.
Outside of Christ we are all born heading for condemnation. Jesus changes all that when we receive His free gift through exercising faith. God desires everyone to be saved, so there are no people predestined for condemnation.
Judas was sorrowful of the consequences, but not of his sin. Therefore, he did not truly repent.. what he did was grieve away the Holy Spirit.
Blessings,
MoG
We were shapen and conceived in iniquity from the womb as scripture puts it. So there's nothing righteous in us as infants. Judas (son of perdition) fulfilled the scriptures, so therefore the decree of God. His unbelief and sin will be why he's condemned, but was foreordained of God. It is why this thread was started. So you must not agree that God predestined believers as well?
God doesn't predestine people for hell or heaven. He says He desires that all men be saved, yet He gives us all a free choice. Those who believe that God predestines people's eternities make Him out to be rather schizoid.
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God choose us because we choose him to be our savior, but, without the Lord God "first" revealing his "grace" (by which we are saved) to us we would not have had any choice in the matter.
Tit 2:11.. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
This makes sense..i liked the way you explained this.. It gives me a better picture.
"Those", referring to me rt? Your anger for the truth, shows by your insult of me in making God out to have a personality disorder, or what u called schizoid. The bible very well DOES teach predestination, election. Election is grace!! Christ coming and death was foreordained. As judas was foretold and ordained of God to betray Christ yet held responsible for his unbelief and sin.. Your reaction of anger is exactly how the self righteous reacted when Christ expressed these truths in Luke 4:24-30, John6:64-66.. Acts 13:48 speaks that those ordained to eternal life BELIEVED! But the pride of man will reject Gods Sovereignty and the gospel of grace to elevate humanistic man centered theology to appease his conscience from facing the truth that he's a mere creature in subjection to the Creator. The righteousness of Christ is a stumbling block for the self righteous. The righteousness which is of faith! Gods law shows forth mans sin, guilt and INABILITY to perform its duties. God as well calls all to obey His law or parish correct? As well, He calls all to repent and believe the gospel to flee from the wrath to come.. Does that mean because God calls for obedience to His law, that you are ABLE to obey, according to what you call "free choice"? No!! We are all dead in sin from birth! Unable to please God. The law exposes who we are as sinfully depraved and helpless creatures under Gods wrath. The law brings wrath and judgment. To the believer, it brings despair and sorrow over his wretched self. And leads to faith in Christ and to seek mercy and forgiveness. It is of faith that it may be by grace.. Peace and reconciliation comes by the merits of Christ Alone which justifies a sinner by faith.. 2Peter3:9 in context is explaining Gods patience in His 2nd coming, as scoffers were mocking believers and saying, where is the promise of His coming?.. So the long suffering of God is salvation, and the completion of the elect are in view here, before He comes back. Not willing that any should parish.. As he speaks to the elect in his first epistle. Many are called, but few are chosen.. Does that mean all are not called to repentance? No of course not. Gods mercy is for all to come through Christ by faith, and is preached to everyone. But it is God who saves and adds to His church. Gods will not yours. Romans 9:16, John1:12-13.. Your will is in bondage to sin and satan, and unable and unwilling to come to the truth of the gospel, apart from being quickened. There is none who seeks after God.. And if u think that your choice or decision merited Gods favor; then you haven't come to see your impotence and need of mercy. The perversion of equating faith with "making a decision for Christ" is the work of a very deceptive form of works righteousness. And is not of faith. For faith rests in the mercy of Christ unto eternal life.. Jude21.. The righteousness that comes by faith.
Then it's not of grace as the scriptures says.. Where in scripture does it say, God chose us because we chose Him to be Savior?
Think, if we did not have a choice in the matter than it was total useless and foolish for God to tell us choose either between life or death. I am not saved because God forced me to choose him, I choose him, and love him because he first loved me, and he revealed himself to me as he has to ALL men. I have already given the scripture that says, "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men." Does that mean all men will be saved? Absolutely not, but they know God exists, and if anyone says they do not believe it, God calls that person a liar, because he has shown it to them. Only those who choose him will be saved . ALL men have been given the right to become a Son of God if they so choose. As it is written, "Light has come into this world but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil, but as many as received him, to them was gave the power to become a Son of God."
Your statement proves that you believe you deserve a say in the matter correct? So by that, it IS foolishness to the self righteous, and the reason why the righteousness of faith is a stumbling stone for you. Our sinful depravity by nature will never come to Christ in truth. Your sarcastic statement as well by saying, "I am not saved cause God FORCED me to choose Him".. , is foolish and arrogant. Through regeneration, God makes the heart willing!! And yes the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, both Jew and gentile. But if you think that your "choice" saves u, then u believe u merited Gods favor and haven't come to submit to the righteousness of Christ by faith. Your decision or sacrament of making a choice, isn't the faith that justifies by the mercy and merits of Christ Jesus Alone. You are deceived and make yourself to be God by usurping your fallen depraved will above Gods will and Sovereignty. Scripture clearly teaches this great truth, but to the prideful heart, it's hated and despised. Grace is the election of God whether u believe it or not. Who are u to reply against God??; as Romans 9:20 puts it...
Brother, now you are showing your true colors. Man is NOT saved first, and then decides to follow Christ, he is a sinner, and lost first and then comes to salvation through the work of the Holy Spirit and hearing the Word of God. Your understanding of salvation is flawed, in how a person comes to Christ. What you have learned is what man teaches, but not what the Bible teaches.
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