Major, I realize all that but what I was getting at, since you said, "Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good (post#14), I asked "how would you explain the existence of tree of good and evil?"
Why does God allow evil? Is that even true?
- Thread starter thebibleworks
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bible-study evil
Well.....I guess I did not say it correctly. I will try something else.
God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him. If that is not a TEST then I have no idea.
There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that the fruit, in and of itself, gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. That is, the physical fruit may have contained some vitamin C and some beneficial fiber, but it was not spiritually nutritious. However, the act of disobedience was spiritually deleterious. That sin opened Adam’s and Eve’s eyes to evil. For the first time, they knew what it was to be evil, to feel shame, and to want to hide from God. Their sin of disobeying God brought corruption into their lives and into the world. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of evil—and the knowledge of their nakedness.
God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world. Why, then, did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free will, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The results—evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death—have plagued the world ever since.
The only way I know to explain it's existence was that it was a "TEST" from God to man. Man failed!
Evil already existed at the time of creation. Satan and his demons had already rebelled against God. I see this as essentially God giving man a choice as to who his God would be.
God instructed Adam not to eat of this tree, not to follow Satan's path, to seek after a false god.
So, I agree with Major that this was a test.
Praise the Lord.
I guess these last two are closer to what I am trying to get at, maybe using the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was inappropriate/misapplication.
If evil has no existence of it's own, how did it come to be in the first place?
Well......I just do not know. I used to make a lot of money answering those kind of difficult questions.....but my medication has worn out now and I do not remember the answers.
Why did any holy angel sin? Here is the most popular answer of our modern era:
Clarence Larkin once wrote in his bok, "The Spirt World"...........
Source: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-did-evil-begin
Of course, this is a philosophical assumption forced on the Bible, not taught by the Bible. In fact, the Bible pervasively teaches the opposite — that God can and does exert sufficient influence on morally responsible beings (his children!) to keep them safe in the worship of God forever.
This, to me, is one of the great mysteries of biblical teaching that I cannot explain — how God governs the will of sinful beings, yet, in doing so, does not sin, and does not take away their responsibility. I see that it is true, because the Bible teaches it, but how God does this remains a mystery.
Thanks for the honesty.
I agree, but is not this below the same?...
Evil is rebellion to God's way of love and faith. God gave a choice between two trees representing to ways of life, two Gods (a true God and a false God). God was revealing his plan and purpose for man.
Not in my opinion. I do not do philosophy crossnote. You may perceived my response as that but that was not my intention.
I would however say that Philosophers over the millennial have argued that the existence of evil demonstrates that God is either not omnipotent or not good and loving — the reasoning being that if evil exists apart from the sovereign power of God, then by resistless logic, God cannot be deemed omnipotent. On the other hand, if God does have the power to prevent evil but fails to do it, then this would reflect upon His character, indicating that He is neither good nor loving.
To me that is just poppy cock! Since I love to eat poppy cock let me change that to BALOGNY.
It seems to me that St. Augustine and then later Aquinas were on the same track, and they agreed that evil has no independent being. Evil cannot be defined as a thing or as a substance or as some kind of being. Rather, evil is always defined as an action, an action that fails to meet a standard of goodness.
This is NOT philosophy but instead just country boy common sense, since God is the standard and If God is good and we disobey God and His goodness then that is evil to me. That kind of evil always leads to sin and sin lead to death.
In reality, YOU are asking "HOW" evil came into being. So to answer your root question, I can not and do not know who can, however in my simple way I can say that I can not explain the "how" of the entrance of evil into the world. I can only respond upon the "why" of the reality of evil.
Last edited:
You caught us! We send PM's back and forth to make sure we are on the same page!
OK CPerkins.......your turn to send something to me!
You caught us! We send PM's back and forth to make sure we are on the same page!
OK CPerkins.......your turn to send something to me!
Anyone looking? 
Once again, thanks for your honesty.
You caught us! We send PM's back and forth to make sure we are on the same page!
OK CPerkins.......your turn to send something to me!
Actually, it was what both of you said above board...in plain site.
But whatever.
I find that I often agree with you as well because your posts are based on God's word. I may have a different understanding though at times on God's word.
Personally I do not see evil as just the absence of good. When I see evil described in the Bible, I typically see it described as an action rather than something that is inherently evil or the absence of something.
I know we are in the arena of guesswork and speculation and when it comes to the origin of evil there doesn't appear to be an answer from Scripture. Even actions when done by beings with intelligence have a source, be it angelic or otherwise. Just like the dilemma of God's sovereignty butting up against man's responsibility, it may never be answered this side of eternity, so I'll leave it at that. But if anyone comes up with dogmatic statements on this or similar topics, that aren't revealed in Scripture, I will pose it the 'tough' questions.
Yes, it is a test...
But it is not because God does not know the hearts of men. He is surely familiar with our limitations and needs no test.
This test and others like it are for our own benefit. We often look at our thoughts and actions in the most positive and incorrect light.
These tests (and our failures) are so that we can be closer to objective about out faults and thus work to correct ourselves (as He helps us).
The basis of sin IS pride, but not all pride is sinful.
Israel was to be the pride of the Lord.
Philippians 4:13 contains a deal of pride, even if it does recognize the source of abilities.
Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.
In 2 Timothy 4:7 Paul renders an assessment of his own life that shows just pride.
2 Timothy 4:7(NASB)
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;
Sinful pride is an unwarranted positive personal assessment. Sometimes ones proper place in the world requires a positive self image. I could not imagine a surgeon, particularly a pediatric surgeon doing his work unless he has confidence in his own abilities (even when he knows his abilities stem from God).
We will be in our gloried states at that time, so no sin nature remaining at all, so even if Satan was still around, nothing in us remaining to sin, thank God!