Why Doesn't God...

[Musicmaster]

Why doesn't God_____

You fill in the blank.

Many people ask why God doesn't stop all the harm in the world.

What I can't figure out is...what would the world look like if He did? How would He accomplish that? Would it be through people:

What other ways would the Lord accomplish that?

MM

 

[Dave F.]

If He did, would we still have free will?

 

[Musicmaster]

If He did, would we still have free will?

In the context of this video, yes, but when people push the concept of God's allowance into the arena of evil itself, then no. Freedom comes to a screeching halt when evil is disallowed in a world of sin. Those who bemoan God's allowance for evil have never lived in a world lacking freedom to do evil. Even slaves living in slavery have that freedom. For example, Joseph might very well have chosen the path of evil by laying with Potiphar's wife, who may very well have kept her liaisons with Joseph secret as her sex object...unless caught in the act.

MM

 

[Dave F.]

People want a god that they can control, rather than submitting to the one true GOD that controls all of creation. Some seem to think that it is only evil when it is someone else doing it. Their sin is ok, but that other guy is horrible. We are truly seeing what a reprobate mind looks like.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

We are finite beings attempting to comprehend the infinite.

 

[crossnote]

Why doesn't didn't God prevent satan/the serpent from tempting Adam/Eve?

 

[Big Moose]

God knew there would be a fall for Adam and Eve. Free thinking beings are almost guaranteed to fail at some point. That is why God planned Jesus as the sacrifice before the world was formed.

Now to twist your brain in a knot....How would we know what goodness is if we never experience evil?

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Now to twist your brain in a knot....How would we know what goodness is if we never experience evil?

You wouldn't. A thing is defined by its boundaries. Without contrast, there is no perception.

 

[Musicmaster]

We are finite beings attempting to comprehend the infinite.

Just one thing in the midst of that musing...the realities that govern this finite world and universe are not infinite. Only the Creator Himself is infinite. His reasons for what is real in this universe can be grasped, and I think this thread is a good one to explore those things that are confined by the limits of this creation.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Why doesn't didn't God prevent satan/the serpent from tempting Adam/Eve?

CN, it is in this environment, within which the Lord knew in advance what was going to transpire, that He intentionally introduced the elements He knew would bring about the result we have today.

You see, it violates the sensibilities of many religious thinking people to dare approach the realization that the Lord orchestrated into existence a number of elements that ensured the outcome. By that means, the flow of events slowly moved toward the environment, which we call sin, would become the very acid test bed for separating the sheep from the goats. That theme, therefore, has far reaching implications than many are willing to traipse.

Now, granted, that doesn't remove from mankind his responsibility for his sins, but it is the presence and commission of sin that we all are tested for what we're made of. Most choose the way of sin, thinking that they can just enjoy the pleasures of this world and there be no consequences resulting from their personal responsibility for the choices they make. Sir Frederick Hoyle made that abundantly clear when he was president of UNESCO back in the 70's.

That serpent was in that garden because that's exactly where the Lord wanted it. That tree of knowledge of good and evil was in that garden because that's exactly where the Lord wanted it.

The uplifting Truth in all this is that the Lord took FULL responsibility for the outcome He knew would result from His planting in that garden the very stimuli and Law that brought about this marvelous and abundant blessing of His sacrifice for us all.

MM

 

[crossnote]

CN, it is in this environment, within which the Lord knew in advance what was going to transpire, that He intentionally introduced the elements He knew would bring about the result we have today.

You see, it violates the sensibilities of many religious thinking people to dare approach the realization that the Lord orchestrated into existence a number of elements that ensured the outcome. By that means, the flow of events slowly moved toward the environment, which we call sin, would become the very acid test bed for separating the sheep from the goats. That theme, therefore, has far reaching implications than many are willing to traipse.

Now, granted, that doesn't remove from mankind his responsibility for his sins, but it is the presence and commission of sin that we all are tested for what we're made of. Most choose the way of sin, thinking that they can just enjoy the pleasures of this world and there be no consequences resulting from their personal responsibility for the choices they make. Sir Frederick Hoyle made that abundantly clear when he was president of UNESCO back in the 70's.

That serpent was in that garden because that's exactly where the Lord wanted it. That tree of knowledge of good and evil was in that garden because that's exactly where the Lord wanted it.

The uplifting Truth in all this is that the Lord took FULL responsibility for the outcome He knew would result from His planting in that garden the very stimuli and Law that brought about this marvelous and abundant blessing of His sacrifice for us all.

MM

I was thinking more in terms of..."God is not willing that any should perish..."..if so I still wonder why God allowed satan/serpent to tempt Adam/Eve, knowing the consequences of sin and His predestined plan in sending His Son into this matrix of sin and suffering, knowing beforehand there would be those who rejected and ultimately perish. Why?

 

[Musicmaster]

I was thinking more in terms of..."God is not willing that any should perish..."..if so I still wonder why God allowed satan/serpent to tempt Adam/Eve, knowing the consequences of sin and His predestined plan in sending His Son into this matrix of sin and suffering, knowing beforehand there would be those who rejected and ultimately perish. Why?

Perhaps I can answer your question with a question:

What better way is there to separate the sheep from the goats among humanity? Is there a better way to accomplish this?

Look at the angels. They beheld the very Glory of God in all its magnificence, and yet a third still rebelled by siding with the one who wanted to become equal with God since there is none greater.

So, what better way is there to have separated out those who have a willingness to love and serve the Lord from those who are rebellious and hateful? The sin environment is precisely the perfect acid test (so to speak) where each one makes that choice. We will love and serve the Lord not because we are forced to do so, but because we want to do so. Those who don't will go off into separation from their Creator because they want no part of Him.

The allowance for that temptation in the midst of freedom was/is the perfect test bed for what each one of us is made of by the choices we grasp.

Those who will perish will do so on the merits of their freedom to have chosen that path. It's entirely upon them, just as Romans 1 states.

Why would anyone have a problem with them being given that freedom to choose that future for themselves? Would you, as king, want servants in your castle who would eventually put a knife in your back, or try to poison your food?

Tried and true we are who are in Christ.

It's all about perspective...

MM

 

[Origen]

I was thinking more in terms of..."God is not willing that any should perish..."..if so I still wonder why God allowed satan/serpent to tempt Adam/Eve, knowing the consequences of sin and His predestined plan in sending His Son into this matrix of sin and suffering, knowing beforehand there would be those who rejected and ultimately perish. Why?

I think you make a good point, however, the serpent was merely the catalyst for the fall. Given that human beings have free will, I have no reason to believe that everyone for always and forever would have obeyed God. Think about the angels. Some of them rejected God. Of his own free will, Satan himself rejected God. If God is going to have a meaning relationship with humans beings of their own free will (and angels as well), the risk is some will reject it.

 

[crossnote]

I think you make a good point, however, the serpent was merely the catalyst for the fall.

Would that mean that God, with His omniscience, knew the serpent would tempt man, man would die and some would ultimately perish despite the fact that God is not willing that any should perish?

 

[crossnote]

So, what better way is there to have separated out those who have a willingness to love and serve the Lord from those who are rebellious and hateful? The sin environment is precisely the perfect acid test (so to speak) where each one makes that choice. We will love and serve the Lord not because we are forced to do so, but because we want to do so. Those who don't will go off into separation from their Creator because they want no part of Him.

The allowance for that temptation in the midst of freedom was/is the perfect test bed for what each one of us is made of by the choices we grasp.

Those who will perish will do so on the merits of their freedom to have chosen that path. It's entirely upon them, just as Romans 1 states.

Why would anyone have a problem with them being given that freedom to choose that future for themselves? Would you, as king, want servants in your castle who would eventually put a knife in your back, or try to poison your food

Freedom to choose was true with Adam and Eve but since the Fall mankind has been the slave of sin, satan and the flesh. Christians have the freedom of choice, but even at that there is the old nature (Gal 5:17)

 

[Musicmaster]

Freedom to choose was true with Adam and Eve but since the Fall mankind has been the slave of sin, satan and the flesh. Christians have the freedom of choice, but even at that there is the old nature (Gal 5:17)

Slave of sin? No. I'm not sure where you get that because it's not what scripture portrays to us concerning those who are in Christ. Those who are slaves to sin are those who sin willingly and intentionally without having been born again:

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."

Peter does not agree with the idea that we in Christ are slaves to sin:

1 Peter 1:22-23
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,
23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

Be born of incorruptible seed, we are no more slaves to sin.

That level of slavery, again, is a choice that does indeed start out with having been born into that state, but is one from which we may be delivered from through the purification of soul by obeying the Truth through the Spirit. The Lord empowers all His people to that end.

MM

 

[crossnote]

Slave of sin? No. I'm not sure where you get that because it's not what scripture portrays to us concerning those who are in Christ. Those who are slaves to sin are those who sin willingly and intentionally without having been born again:

reread, I said, "Freedom to choose was true with Adam and Eve but since the Fall mankind has been the slave of sin, satan and the flesh. Christians have the freedom of choice, but even at that there is the old nature (Gal 5:17)"

I wasn't referring to Christians until the 2nd sentence.

 

[Origen]

Would that mean that God, with His omniscience, knew the serpent would tempt man, man would die and some would ultimately perish despite the fact that God is not willing that any should perish?

If God is truly omniscience, and I believe He is, God would have had to know. To say he had no knowledge of what was going to happen (or any event for that matter) would be a denial of His omniscience.

 

[bobinfaith]

Why doesn't God_____Many people ask why God doesn't stop all the harm in the world.

If He did, would we still have free will?

We are finite beings attempting to comprehend the infinite.

Good morning, brothers;

Why doesn't God stop all the harm in the world? God would go beyond stopping all the harm by destroying the earth and all He created.

Dave, we would not have free will because of the harm God ends in the first place. Without Jesus that's our penance.

LearningToLetGo, I agree, we are finite beings attempting to comprehend the finite. This has always been the temptation of worldly humans, examples like the computer age, the space program, the production of vehicles, music, etc...I see many of these infinite things and I respond with beautifully done! But when my eyes turn to God humbles me with perfectly done!

The harm that God didn't stop is from the free will God gave those, just like the free will God has given you and me. Just like everyone else, I've lived and learned about the heinous acts of people in my lifetime. But I'm also aware of my heinous acts according to the people I hurt or myself.

Does this make my free will ok as long as it's not as bad as the harm from others that God didn't stop? No. Nonetheless, my free will still took away God's glory.

"God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Jesus went to the cross. Sure, we hear about this in a fundamental Bible study but we better get serious and dig deeper why Jesus went to the cross. I can share many examples but for the sake of Why Doesn't God...

The lifetime of free will harm and sin I caused others and myself, my faith built me up with a conscious and conviction to see myself and do what I must; confess my wrongdoings to God, seek forgiveness from those I hurt and reconcile with my brothers and sisters.

God doesn't overlook the harm any of us bring to the world. When I go to Him with my confession He already knows and will break me only to build me up again.

When we go back and ponder why Jesus went to the cross we can be grateful to God, instead of the alternative.

The alternative would rather overlook God and instead maintain their free will harm in the world only to ask later, Why Doesn't God...

God bless you all.

 

[Musicmaster]

reread, I said, "Freedom to choose was true with Adam and Eve but since the Fall mankind has been the slave of sin, satan and the flesh. Christians have the freedom of choice, but even at that there is the old nature (Gal 5:17)"

I wasn't referring to Christians until the 2nd sentence.

Yes, I get that. Being stuck with the flesh and the inherent sin nature is what ensures our need for fighting the good fight.

Notice this, however:

Ephesians 6:10-13
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly [places].
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Paul concedes in verse 10 that there is the fleshly side to our war against sin as born again believers, but even more needful is our ability to stand up against forces far more powerful than just our flesh. Our flesh is bad enough, but we are told that the armor is for the purpose of withstanding the attacks of the powers and principalities of the air.

It is those forces with which we should be of greater concern against.

MM