Why is repentance and overcoming so important?

JohnC said:
Are you saying that all rebellion, mistake, and error is contained within the flesh? This would imply there is no rebellion in heaven... This would also imply that our spirit apart from the flesh has no free will.... If our spirit has free will - then it must have the capacity for making an error..

There certainly are "sins of the flesh" - related to lusts and desires of the physical body - fear of hunger, fear of pain, lust for sex, love of the drunk feeling, physical addictions, etc... No doubt these will be gone when our physical body dies.

But what about other sins such as love of power, greed, pride, narcissism, and such.

If all capacity for sin disappears once our body dies - then why would God have hell? There would be no need of restraint or separation if all spirits perfectly obeyed God's will....



I do not have any questions about what repentance is.
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The only other reason for repentance other than God instructs us to....is that repentance breaks the power of sin on our lives. JESUS defeated the power of sin, by dying and shedding His Blood.....now we have to make the choice to not allow sin to have any authority in our lives.....and that is done by repenting and accepting God's cleansing power to remove our unrighteousness and restore His righteousness back into our lives.

There is no rebellion in Heaven. And won't be in the new heaven.
Hell is for those who choose to not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, while here on earth.
Blessings
 
JohnC said:
Why is repentance and overcoming so important? Why did Jesus and Paul and James and John and Moses and The Prophets devote so much scripture to repentance and overcoming?

I mean... If EVERYTHING is covered by the blood and we are "Justified by faith" - then why does it matter if we repent? Why does it matter if we overcome? Why would Jesus put so much emphasis on it - even in The Revelation AFTER The Cross was completely accomplished?

Why does Jesus and The Father want to transform our emotion, intellect, and volition BEFORE we die? Why must we learn Love, patience, kindness, longsuffering, perseverance, humility, and contentment HERE in our human bodies? Why must we "Bear the fruit of the spirit" HERE? Why is enduring through persecution and tribulation and suffering so important?
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Repentance is us walking in the Light, in the Truth. How can we say we know God yet continue to sin without repentance? How can we say we are alive when we act dead spiritually speaking? Yes we sin in the flesh, yes we aren't always super vibrant with our new lives, we are but babes, but there are HUGE differences between God's children and the devil's spiritually speaking. When we sin, we repent because we walk in the light, we align ourselves with the Truth. When an unbeliever sins, they do not repent because they walk in the darkness, and are bound to a lie. We are children of the Truth and must act so, we are commanded because we need to be reminded of this fact.

That's my answer.
 
Also, not every Christian repents at the same time. Some of God's children take longer to acknowledge sin and to have a change of mind and heart, but God is faithful and all his children will have some form of repentance after the new birth. I repented of a lot of things when I was first born again, mainly of old beliefs and interests that I realized were wicked. Some things I know are sin I still do because my flesh is so strong, but as his child I know what the Truth is and what I will be one day.
 
JohnC said:
Are you saying that all rebellion, mistake, and error is contained within the flesh? This would imply there is no rebellion in heaven... This would also imply that our spirit apart from the flesh has no free will.... If our spirit has free will - then it must have the capacity for making an error..

There certainly are "sins of the flesh" - related to lusts and desires of the physical body - fear of hunger, fear of pain, lust for sex, love of the drunk feeling, physical addictions, etc... No doubt these will be gone when our physical body dies.

But what about other sins such as love of power, greed, pride, narcissism, and such.

If all capacity for sin disappears once our body dies - then why would God have hell? There would be no need of restraint or separation if all spirits perfectly obeyed God's will....



I do not have any questions about what repentance is.
Click to expand...

I am saying as clearly as possible.......the Old nature of our sin nature will always be with us. The sin nature is that principle in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, we refer to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The evening news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly. Wherever people are, there is trouble. Charles Spurgeon said, “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Colossians 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.


 
Major said:
I am saying as clearly as possible.......the Old nature of our sin nature will always be with us. The sin nature is that principle in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, we refer to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The evening news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly. Wherever people are, there is trouble. Charles Spurgeon said, “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Colossians 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.
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Certainly, the flesh has desires that are at odds with God... but The Flesh is not the ROOT of our problem.... Man was created "Out of the dust" long before Adam and Eve brought false morality upon us - and in that day, God declared it "Good" - thus the flesh is not Inherently evil by itself...

The doctrine that our Flesh is Sinful/Evil and the "Spirit" is Good is not a Biblical one. That is a Greek/pagan concept that holds WIDE acceptance and belief within the church. This sort of doctrine has lead to all sorts of error and rebellion - such as the doctrines of Mortification and Penance... That the destruction/punishment of The Flesh was required to bring our inherently "Evil Flesh" into subjugation under our inherently "Good" Spirit...

Matt 18:8-9 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

We clearly recognize that this is not effective... Plucking out someone's eyes does not relieve them of greed, hate, and covetousness, though it is termed "An evil eye"..... Cutting off someone's hand does not relieve them of desire to commit violence and theft....

If "The Flesh" was THE ONLY Evil part - then separating man's flesh from the spirit would be GOOD - and thus murder would be a good thing...

What, rather is the goal then.... To embrace repentance within our INNER parts - within our Spirit... To bring our needy and lusting flesh into subjection to our Repented Spirit, rather than allowing the desires of our narcissistic and self willed Spirit to feed off of

Psalm 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
This clearly does not refer to simple flesh... David is not talking about his physical innerds....

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Romans 8:10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.
The Body dies.... The Spirit gives you life... What does God's spirit make right? only our flesh? I don't think so... It goes beyond that...

1Cor 6:11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
What was cleansed and made Holy? The flesh or the Spirit?

We ridicule the Jews for their persisting in the belief that the body must be kept ceremonially "Clean" per The Law, but we persist in the same doctrines - essentially saying that The Flesh is the evil part and The Spirit is the good part.. This leads to mistaken doctrines that what we REALLY need to aspire to is simply our spirit ruling over our Flesh (Mortification).... This is incorrect - we need Repentance within our narcissistic Spirit AND repentance within our narcissistic Flesh as well...

Luke 11:39-42
And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Thanks
 
JohnC said:
Certainly, the flesh has desires that are at odds with God... but The Flesh is not the ROOT of our problem.... Man was created "Out of the dust" long before Adam and Eve brought false morality upon us - and in that day, God declared it "Good" - thus the flesh is not Inherently evil by itself...

The doctrine that our Flesh is Sinful/Evil and the "Spirit" is Good is not a Biblical one. That is a Greek/pagan concept that holds WIDE acceptance and belief within the church. This sort of doctrine has lead to all sorts of error and rebellion - such as the doctrines of Mortification and Penance... That the destruction/punishment of The Flesh was required to bring our inherently "Evil Flesh" into subjugation under our inherently "Good" Spirit...

Matt 18:8-9 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

We clearly recognize that this is not effective... Plucking out someone's eyes does not relieve them of greed, hate, and covetousness, though it is termed "An evil eye"..... Cutting off someone's hand does not relieve them of desire to commit violence and theft....

If "The Flesh" was THE ONLY Evil part - then separating man's flesh from the spirit would be GOOD - and thus murder would be a good thing...

What, rather is the goal then.... To embrace repentance within our INNER parts - within our Spirit... To bring our needy and lusting flesh into subjection to our Repented Spirit, rather than allowing the desires of our narcissistic and self willed Spirit to feed off of

Psalm 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
This clearly does not refer to simple flesh... David is not talking about his physical innerds....

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Romans 8:10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.
The Body dies.... The Spirit gives you life... What does God's spirit make right? only our flesh? I don't think so... It goes beyond that...

1Cor 6:11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
What was cleansed and made Holy? The flesh or the Spirit?

We ridicule the Jews for their persisting in the belief that the body must be kept ceremonially "Clean" per The Law, but we persist in the same doctrines - essentially saying that The Flesh is the evil part and The Spirit is the good part.. This leads to mistaken doctrines that what we REALLY need to aspire to is simply our spirit ruling over our Flesh (Mortification).... This is incorrect - we need Repentance within our narcissistic Spirit AND repentance within our narcissistic Flesh as well...

Luke 11:39-42
And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Thanks
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The comment of......"The doctrine that our Flesh is Sinful/Evil and the "Spirit" is Good is not a Biblical one", is something YOU have posted NOT ME. I never said such a thing or even intimated such.

I am still not sure what you are trying to say.

Romans 7:14-24..........
"For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?"

Paul is telling us in Romans that there was something “in the members” of his body that he calls “my flesh,” which produced difficulty in his Christian life and made him a prisoner of sin. Martin Luther, in his preface to the book of Romans, commented on Paul’s use of “flesh” by saying, “Thou must not understand ‘flesh,’ therefore, as though that only were ‘flesh’ which is connected with unchastity, but Paul uses ‘flesh’ of the whole man, body, and soul, reason, and all his faculties included, because all that is in him longs and strives after the flesh.”

Luther’s comments point out that “flesh” equates to affections and desires that run contrary to God, not only in the area of sexual activity, but in every area of life.

Now to speak to your comment posted above JohnC about the flesh is bad but the spirit is good. Allow me to follow up on that by saying that the Bible’s view of human nature differs from that of Greek philosophy in that Scripture says the physical and spiritual nature of humankind was originally good.

By contrast, philosophers such as Plato saw a dualism or dichotomy in humanity. Such thinking eventually produced a theory that the body (the physical) was bad, but a person’s spirit was good. This teaching influenced groups such as the Gnostics who believed the physical world was mistakenly created by a demi-god called the “Demiurge.” The Gnostics opposed the doctrine of Christ’s incarnation because they believed God would never take on a physical form, since the body was evil.
(http://www.gotquestions.org/the-flesh.html)

The apostle John encountered a form of this teaching in his day and warned against it in 1 John 4:1-3.......
“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God".





 
*Sigh* ... Semantics.... Violent agreement once again....

This is why I haven't really tried to do any more than leave the trail of bread crumbs in this thread...

Here's what I am getting at....

The blood of Jesus upon us takes care of the issue of the payment for the PENALTY of our Sin... But - while we receive "Justification" - it does not deal with our inherent nature... COVERED by the blood - but not removed.. Though Jesus makes it POSSIBLE to break the grip of Sin - Our desire is to continue in "Error"... That's where Repentance, overcoming, and holding fast is important... Aligning our will with God's will...

When you think about the nature of Hell - while there's fire and such - really, the more important consideration is the sorrow... Emptiness, emotional pain, fear, gnawing, hatred, worry, terror, angst, covetousness.... The same things that fill them now... The fact that (Contrary to Genesis 2:17) Dying - you NEVER die.... You just keep dying.... But the WHY is important - it's because you can't bear to bring your will into alignment with God's will.... Sure - as the case with Demons - you will obey when Jesus is standing there.... When forced to - but there's no DESIRE to obey... No Love of God... No desire to seek God's face... The only thing important to you is you... Your knee will bow because it must - not because it desires this..... And so those in Hell will DESIRE separation FROM God - because they want nothing to do with "His Will"..... They will CHOOSE the fire and/or the abyss over Obedience....

Now what then of the one who has "Partially" repented... Aligned his will with God's in PART of his existence - but never in everything (AKA most of us...).... Israel in Judges for example.... Overcame BIG sin to enter - but now Tabernacling WITH "minor" sin... What of that fellow when he gets to heaven? Will he be happy there with a will partially aligned with God's? Will he have ADDITIONAL work to do and choices to make - CHOOSE to love God with ALL his emotion, volition, and intellect ..... or choose to NOT love God .... Align all your will or don't..... but I don't get the sense in heaven that you can stay there if you are only OK with only aligning some... No man can serve two masters and all.... Sure - the blood may cover you - but you won't WANT to stay.... because it's all about HIM - not you....

Thanks
 
And to kinda finish up on the thought....
I kinda get this impression when I REALLY study in the scripture that heaven may not be like how so many of us think.... Just like when the ACTUAL Messiah showed up - it didn't really go quite like the Jews pictured it....

Love hangs in there where Obedience chafes after a while.... and heaven goes on for a LONG time... Self-willed obedience is going to wear thin... It's going to wear out... Look at Satan - he started thinking "What about what I want?" When it became clear that He wasn't going to get the glory - that desire to persevere in obedience started wearing thin.... When it sank in that being "First among you" means being the SLAVE of ALL... and that God really means this.... Glory turns to Grind.... How long did it take - Creation has been going for a LONG time...

Without Love - you aren't going to WANT to be in the presence of God - you are going to want to do your own thing.... and doing your own thing.. Getting the Glory... This means AWAY from God...

This is why Repentance is so important... It's the mechanism of turning BACK to God... The mechanism of "Righting the ship" and returning to "Your first Love".. That when the grind of being the SLAVE to ALL starts wearing thin - you have the MECHANISM to turn BACK to God.. To rejuvenate the Love within you and to remind you of the love FOR you... The flow of living water so to speak....

Thanks
 
In order to answer the question of "why repent", you have to consider what it does for the believer.

It is NOT a matter of being saved or justified. Justification is on the basis of Christ's blood.

What it is is a matter of edifying the believer. Repentance is the first step to grow in Christ.

Unconfessed sin prevents an effective prayer life.

As the Spirit convicts us of our failings, we must agree that we have wronged, and truly want God to empower us to overcome that sin.

That paves the way for the Spirit to strengthen us. As we are faithful in overcoming our own sin nature, we become transformed into the creature the Lord created us to be. We become more sensitive to the leading of the Spirit.

Bible study becomes more effective and a virtuous cycle of positive reinforcement of spiritual life becomes available.
 
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