I don't think that those apply to your thinking sis.
Worship through music
- Thread starter AndrewB93
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I don't think that those apply to your thinking sis.
Yeah, they do. It's the Holy Spirit who speaks to us when we read the scriptures. It's not me.
Now those are better.
It says the same thing in Psalm 149 as I posted earlier.
Why would scripture encourage us in pride? Let's get real here, and try to stop reading things into what people are NOT saying. Holy Spirit is the enlightener of His truth, and no one else. If you do not see what I am seeing and many others also see, no one is faulting you or criticizing you, and vice versa, if the Lord is showing me this truth that we are exhorted by God to praise Him in the dance---in the sanctuary---then I have a responsibility to follow what He tells me---I don't have a choice about it if He desires me to do what He is saying, and you should not be quibbling about it. Be glad!
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It's not scripture that misleads us - it is those wielding the scriptures. There are many other good Christians who disagree with your point of view and I have no problem with how you interpret how God speaks to you and I agree you should obey. It's the accusation that others need to worship the Lord with dance/music/musical instruments or they are disobeying God that comes across. If that was not you intention/implication in the pages long dissent you had with Grant then apologies - I've only read the past pages I have posted on. It seems to me that you twisted the meaning of imperative context to translate verses not so stated as commands of God to prove your particular point or preference/bias. So now we have how many commandments?
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There is no accusation coming from me, Silk. I am simply pointing out that one cannot withhold from God what is rightfully His---namely worship through all forms of expression--songs, shouts, dance, instruments---even art. All the glory goes to God.
I do not twist anything in scripture, but simply offer it up to you and the rest of us here as some biblical input toward the topic.
As for commands, in reading the bible daily, no matter where you read, there is at least one command per passage for any of us, as the Holy Spirit leads.
Have a wonderful evening, Silk!
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They are better but still do not say that we are commanded to DANCE in the church......IMHO.
The faithful have a command to dance before the Lord in worship. We often do that when we come together before Him, and that is usually done in the local churches, but can be done anywhere.
Besides, it is the Church of Jesus Christ that actually has something more to be joyous and dance about.
I agree…. “worship in the assembly” or if might add, even “worship by an individual” seems connected with “edification (of each other)”….
Although need to state a distinction first, imo: : )
EDIFICATION is more on the context of LOVE rather than WORSHIP.
LOVE is a relationship:
Vertical : Man to his Creator
Horizontal: Man to himself, and to his fellowman….
In essence: the "Greatest Commandment"
Horizontal: Man to himself, and to his fellowman….
In essence: the "Greatest Commandment"
While WORSHIP seems to be only "vertical":
Vertical: Man to his Creator.
Vertical: or an Assembly (of man) towards his Creator
Vertical: or an Assembly (of man) towards his Creator
My point: fix a “Horizontal” first before a “Vertical” : )
Matthew 5:23-24King James Version (KJV)
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Topical Post: Worship & Edification
Yes, I agree. Worship and edification involves activity, in the form of singing and speaking.
Yes, I see what you mean. I don't think we can restrict the work of edification to the assembly, or to worship, but love must always be present. I think though, that when we're thinking about the outward expression of worship in the assembly in particular, it would always be in view of edification. Love would be vital to edification though, and I'm glad you've brought that in. That would be 1 Corinthians 13, wouldn't it? "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal." (1 Corinthians 13:1) and so on.
Yes, I agree. Worship and edification involves activity, in the form of singing and speaking.
Yes, I see what you mean. I don't think we can restrict the work of edification to the assembly, or to worship, but love must always be present. I think though, that when we're thinking about the outward expression of worship in the assembly in particular, it would always be in view of edification. Love would be vital to edification though, and I'm glad you've brought that in. That would be 1 Corinthians 13, wouldn't it? "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal." (1 Corinthians 13:1) and so on.
I am not arguing your point. I am only asking WHERE is that "command" to dance in the church???
Just an observation about this scripture: it's important to look back to what led up to this energetic expression of worship. That would give us a deeper impression of what it means. If we read early in the chapter, we find David going "off script", to use a common expression. He didn't do what God has specified regarding the movement of the ark. That resulted in painful exercises for David. But, he was restored, and as restored, his worship takes on deeper and fuller character - not only energetic, but priestly too. I think that would be a lesson to us about harkening to the divine commandment, in whatever conditions we find ourselves, and fulfilling His will.
The word in scripture is translated 'joy' or 'exult' because that is what God is doing. It isn't translated 'leap' or 'spin' (thought it could well be) because that isn't the sense of the word used in that context. I wouldn't claim to know everything that God does, for sure. But, to say positively that He does those things, based on a translation of a word other than how it's translated in every version of the Bible... well, that is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
I don't object to the word violent here, and I know that in that context it means energetic. My point was that we don't see the Lord Jesus putting His energy into things like that. The example in Mark 11:12 is a helpful one. That is the sort of violence that we need, and I feel it would begin with me personally, in self-judgement.
As an aside (and I know I've said this before), I can say positively that we, as believers, have all that. When I gather with the brethren, we have everything that speaks about. I don't say that presumptuously (or exclusively), but it's true. We have the instruments which the David made, and they're employed in the praise of God.
I have given the biblical references, and the verb tense is distinctly imperative. God delights in the ways we worship Him, and when we dance before Him as He instructs us in Psalms, which contains full instructions in worship, we bless Him.
No stretch. There are several words used in scripture to say "joy", and one of them is to spin or twirl.
I believe that the disciples and the hundreds of followers of Jesus witnessed His energetic exultation.
Yes we have instruments of various kinds, all for the purpose of bringing glory and honour to the God we love and adore.
If it's a commandment, then surely we sin when we don't do it, we disobey God? If we come into the presence of God and we don't dance, and we don't play musical instruments, and we haven't made an offering for sin, for an atonement, then we're disobeying God. I include that last example, because that was also a requirement under the old covenant for a worshipper to come near. Clearly, the statement I've just made, highlighted in bold, is entirely wrong, from start to finish, isn't it? Perhaps we would argue that the Lord Jesus has died for sins, therefore there is no more offering for sin. Quite right. That leaves us with musical instruments and dancing, which are no less types than the sin-offering. I believe the Lord Jesus has filled out and become the reality of those types as well. Why do we practically occupy ourselves with types when we have the reality?
But, it isn't translated "spin or twirl", it's translated "joy", because that's what's meant.
I'm sure they did, but it's never said they witnessed Him dancing, or spinning or twirling.
I'd agree with that, with one slight alteration. We are instruments of various kinds, all for the purpose of bringing glory and honour to the God we love and adore.