Your One Biggest Desire

[Glomung]

Glomung Hello,
I got some good news for you....It has always been Gods desire for you to be healthy.
He never wanted you not healthy.....I challenge you to find where it says God DOES NOT WANT YOU WELL in the written word of God....

Hello Fish Catcher Jim,
You are right, nowhere in scripture does it say that God does not want me to be healthy. Nowhere does it say that God did not want me to be tall either, yet I am still the shortest male in my family. Scripture also does not say that God wanted me to be going gray and bald, but again, I am graying and balding.
It is a very poor habit, and logical fallacy also, to base your beliefs on what scripture does not say.
Nothing happens that God does not will. I had cancer and survived it. The cancer was God's will (along with the results of the cancer) and so was my surviving it. If God wanted me healthy, I woud be healthy. I am not, so it is pretty obvious that for whatever reason God may have, He prefers me in the state that I am in.

If you believe that this cannot be the case I would suggest you read your Bible more closely.
"My strength is pefected in weekness."
on suffering :
http://www.openbible.info/topics/suffering

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Cosmic Waffle Hello,
Why do you feel the weight of sin every day ? Notice I did not say "Your"
There is ONLY 2 reasons why this could be.....
One would be of couorse you have not ever repented of them AND gone to the Father and asked Him to forgive you of your sins and tresspass's and to cleanse you of all righteousness.
Then by FAITH received your forgivness and your cleansing of all unreigheousness.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*OR*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

You are allowing our enemy the devil keep you in bondage over things that do not even exist any place other then in the mind of the devil and YOUR MIND if you choose to keep them there.

Saying things like I am just an old sinner saved by grace is not being humble before the Lord.
See YOU can NOT be both...Either you are a sinner or you are saved by Grace.

When we choose to allow sins to weight us down or waller in them and carry them with us all the time..well it is as we are saying that the price that our Lord Jesus OUR "CHRIST" paid for us is not good enough......I was shown this a long time ago and it did open my eyes.
Jesus paid a high price for us.....He took on ALL THE SIN for all time upon Himself.
He made the way for us to be able to go freely and boldly unto the throne room any time we want. He made it so we can be washed by His blood and be cleansed, cleaner then any clean you can imangine and be free from SIN.......He paid our price for us......

Now then if I was to go around feeling the weight of "sin" that He already took care of, well I am saying what Jesus did was not good enough to take my sins away....
It is easy to get tired and want to just get out of this sinful place called the world. I agree with that 100 % however........feeling the weight of SIN in this life is not something a born again believer has to do..We are not supposed to and if we truly honor God, then we wont...

Now then simply tell the devil where to get off and the Father Loves You and your sins are forgiven and forgotten. They are not just forgotten but they are destroyed. Y0ur case has been esponged and the sponge was full of the Blood Of Jesus.....End of story !!

Now live like it.....act like it......walk in the freedom Jesus purchased for you and stop allowing the father of lies, the big deceiver who cons christians into buying his lies to take a flying hike.
Cast him down brother.....Jesus already defeated him for you.....put him under your foot and live free from the weight of stuff that does not exist any more......

Have a blessed and peaceful week
Jim

Thanks Jim.

I simply mean the sins that I still struggle with in my flesh, and the general sins that we encounter in our day to day lives. I know I am righteous in God's eyes, but when my mind or heart does things I would rather it not do I feel very burdened. Christ might have freed us from the penalty and power of sin, but he has yet to free us from its presence.

I feel depressed, angry, stressed, and lustful pretty often. When I feel these things I know they are wrong but there is nothing I can do to stop it. This is what I mean by "the weight of sin". It's a heavy burden and is not a simple switch I can turn off. It's in our DNA and we have yet to leave these bodies in exchange for our new ones. The lives we live we live by faith in the one who has saved and will save us.

I don't believe those who say you need to live a perfect life free of sin in order to be saved. The reason Christ went to the cross was because we can't, righteousness is a gift imputed to those who have faith in his sacrifice. That's not to say God doesn't give us the grace we need to overcome sin, but we can't expect anyone or ourselves to be perfectly righteous in the flesh. The whole point to this life is that we are vessels of God's grace and mercy, people who have been given a righteousness not their own.

I am not justifying myself or my sin, simply saying that sin is still a reality in the lives of Christians. We would be lieing to say that we don't sin or have a perfect righteousness in the flesh.

 

[Nanon]

For years my deepest desire has been reflected in Paul's :

Philippians 3:9-10
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is
of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness
which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Hello Fish Catcher Jim,
You are right, nowhere in scripture does it say that God does not want me to be healthy. Nowhere does it say that God did not want me to be tall either, yet I am still the shortest male in my family. Scripture also does not say that God wanted me to be going gray and bald, but again, I am graying and balding.
It is a very poor habit, and logical fallacy also, to base your beliefs on what scripture does not say.
Nothing happens that God does not will. I had cancer and survived it. The cancer was God's will (along with the results of the cancer) and so was my surviving it. If God wanted me healthy, I woud be healthy. I am not, so it is pretty obvious that for whatever reason God may have, He prefers me in the state that I am in.

If you believe that this cannot be the case I would suggest you read your Bible more closely.
"My strength is pefected in weekness."
on suffering :
http://www.openbible.info/topics/suffering

Hello Brother Glomung,
First of all I wanted to thank you for replying with me and explaining how you feel about this. I truly do appreciate your honesty. I only have a couple of minutes at this time to be online but I wanted to ask you for something and I could seek this out when I am online later tonight. I sure would appreciate it brother...

Any way, what do you base your belief that it is Gods will for you to have had the cancer or to be in the state that you are? You said nothing happens that God does not will.....So can you direct me to this or something in scripture that I can study to see this my self ?

Thank You Glomung for your time and honesty
Have a great day !
Jim

 

[Glomung]

Hello Brother Glomung,
First of all I wanted to thank you for replying with me and explaining how you feel about this. I truly do appreciate your honesty. I only have a couple of minutes at this time to be online but I wanted to ask you for something and I could seek this out when I am online later tonight. I sure would appreciate it brother...

Any way, what do you base your belief that it is Gods will for you to have had the cancer or to be in the state that you are? You said nothing happens that God does not will.....So can you direct me to this or something in scripture that I can study to see this my self ?

Thank You Glomung for your time and honesty
Have a great day !
Jim

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
There is nothing that occurs that is not within God's will. Understanding God's will is the hard part.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
There is nothing that occurs that is not within God's will. Understanding God's will is the hard part.

Brother Glomung Hello,
Thank You for the scripture but it is going to take more then this to help me understand how the written words says Gods will, is including sickness and harm etc.

Matthew 10:29 goes along with Matthew 10:28 so lets see what Matthew 10:28 is saying shall we.
28...KJV....And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
30...KJV...But the very hairs of your head are all numbered
29...KJV...Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall to the ground with out your Father.
31...KJV...Fear ye not therefore, ye are are of more value then many sparrows.

28...NLT...Don't be afraid of those who want to kill you. They can only kill your body; they can not touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29...NLT...Not even a sparrow worth only half a penny, can fall to the ground with out your Father knowing it.
30...NLT...And the very hairs on your head are all numbered
31...NLT...So don't be afraid; you are more valuable to Him then a whole flock of sparrows.

So Brother Glomung it seems that these scriptures are saying that God Knows and not issues.
Seems to me if I am more valuable then something He takes care of then, I would not be something He would be placing sickness or harm or any evil in me or on me or around me for any reason.

So Brother Glomung you have not yet shown me how you base your belief that God will give a person a sicknees or bring harm to them for any single reason....Lets keep in mind that Person spoken in this conversation is a born again believer.

Thank You Brother Glomung
Have a great day
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

@Cosmicwaffle Hello,
I want to reply with your post split into sections so I do not miss anything. I hope this will be ok with you. Other wise it keeps coming out a mess. lol I will underscore your words to help idenify them.

I simply mean the sins that I still struggle with in my flesh, and the general sins that we encounter in our day to day lives. I know I am righteous in God's eyes, but when my mind or heart does things I would rather it not do I feel very burdened. Christ might have freed us from the penalty and power of sin, but he has yet to free us from its presence.

Any sins you may still struggle with can and should be brought under the word. I mean God has given us everything to live a victorious life but we MUST CHOOSE to use them. We have to make the choice to either bring them under our submission by the written word of God and the power of the blood of Jesus OR continue to live in defeat under the weight of our sins.

I feel depressed, angry, stressed, and lustful pretty often. When I feel these things I know they are wrong but there is nothing I can do to stop it. This is what I mean by "the weight of sin". It's a heavy burden and is not a simple switch I can turn off.

All these things you mention are fruits of the "flesh" You say there is nothing you can do to stop it. Lets see How can I put it....YES THERE IS......You begin by renewing the mind in Gods word. You have to read it and study it and meditate on it. This is called building up your spirit man. Scripture says...walk in the spirit and you will not satify the flesh Galatians 5:16 KJV
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

You said it's not a simple switch you can turn off....Agaian YES it is BUT you have got to make the CHOICE to do so. The written word of God never returns void......So it will work for you as it does any one else BUT you have to make the CHOICE to work it.

It's in our DNA and we have yet to leave these bodies in exchange for our new ones. The lives we live we live by faith in the one who has saved and will save us.

YES we are Born Into Sin BUT there is NO Sin in the Spirit Man or Spiritual dna if you will.
Yes we do live By Faith for with out FAITH we could not please God....
Hebrews 11:6 KJV...But with out FAITH it is impossible to please HIM; for he who cometh to God MUST BELIEVE that He is AND that He is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.

So again it is US that has to make the choice to do something about it. God will always back up HIS word in our behalf. So again it is up to you to dwell with the weight of sin or to get out from under the yoke of that sin once and for all. Choose God's way.....it is so much more pleasant...

So Brother Cosmic Waffle, again I say...You do not have to be like this.
Have a wonderful day
Jim

 

[Glomung]

Brother Glomung Hello,
Thank You for the scripture but it is going to take more then this to help me understand how the written words says Gods will, is including sickness and harm etc.
So Brother Glomung it seems that these scriptures are saying that God Knows and not issues.
Seems to me if I am more valuable then something He takes care of then, I would not be something He would be placing sickness or harm or any evil in me or on me or around me for any reason.

So Brother Glomung you have not yet shown me how you base your belief that God will give a person a sicknees or bring harm to them for any single reason....Lets keep in mind that Person spoken in this conversation is a born again believer.

Thank You Brother Glomung
Have a great day
Jim

This one was born blind, no sin of his or his parents, but to serve God's purpose.
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.
A few quotes on suffering.
2 Timothy 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
1 Peter 4:12-13 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
Luke 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.
Hebrews 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

And last but not least a quote from St. Padre Pio:
" If people knew the value of suffering they would want nothing else."

and from me: Wisdom is bought with suffering, no other coin will do.

 

[Abdicate]

This one was born blind, no sin of his or his parents, but to serve God's purpose.
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.
A few quotes on suffering.
2 Timothy 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
1 Peter 4:12-13 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
Luke 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.
Hebrews 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

And last but not least a quote from St. Padre Pio:
" If people knew the value of suffering they would want nothing else."

and from me: Wisdom is bought with suffering, no other coin will do.

I'm sorry, but these are all taken out of context. You're proposing that these evils come from God when in reality the verses you quoted deal with two entirely different subjects. #1 persecution - not from God. #2 disobedience. That's it. Bad things happen to good people for only those two reasons. Only good and perfect gifts come from God. Read Elihu's words from Job, who thought along your means and completely repented of that ill thinking.

James 1:13-17 (KJV)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
​

 

[Glomung]

I'm sorry, but these are all taken out of context. You're proposing that these evils come from God when in reality the verses you quoted deal with two entirely different subjects. #1 persecution - not from God. #2 disobedience. That's it. Bad things happen to good people for only those two reasons. Only good and perfect gifts come from God. Read Elihu's words from Job, who thought along your means and completely repented of that ill thinking.

James 1:13-17 (KJV)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
​

You are missing the point by miles.
The first was born blind to serve God's will. The text states that plainly.
He was born blind so that the will of God could be shown in him.
It was God's will that he suffer blindness, you can't get around that. It was also God's will that he be healed, but he suffered first.
And was later persecuted by the authorities for having the gall to be healed by someone they despised.

There is suffering in the world and God allows it. To say that Christians will not suffer is in direct opposition of the scriptures.
Jesus said repeatedly, "follow me and you will suffer".

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

@Glomung Hello Brother,
I am going to post a reply to your reply to me later when I have time, HOWEVER I will reply to this one thing you said here.

There is suffering in the world and God allows it. To say that Christians will not suffer is in direct opposition of the scriptures.
Jesus said repeatedly, "follow me and you will suffer"

First off, I will agree there is suffering in the world. God allows it because He has put some things in the hand of man. Starting with free will, which means man has a say what happens in his or her life. God does not have a Blood Covenant with every single person alive on this planet, so evil does run rampit.

Saying Chrisitans wont suffer is something you just brought into this discussion and has not been stated. Saying God does not use or send evil or death or sickness to teach us or mold us or move us is not saying Christians won't suffer.

Persecution comes for the WORDS SAKE....this means the devil comes to kill, steel and destroy the word. Another words read Mark 4 about the sower. You will learn that the different grounds talked about are caused by what a person allows the devil to steel from them, all but way side and that is self inflicted by the christian.

I think if you are going to quote Jesus, perhaps do it in full context....
Any way Brother I hope the rest of your day ornight is a very blessed and peaceful one.
God Bless You Brother Glomung
Jim

 

[Abdicate]

You are missing the point by miles.
The first was born blind to serve God's will. The text states that plainly.
He was born blind so that the will of God could be shown in him.
It was God's will that he suffer blindness, you can't get around that. It was also God's will that he be healed, but he suffered first.
And was later persecuted by the authorities for having the gall to be healed by someone they despised.

There is suffering in the world and God allows it. To say that Christians will not suffer is in direct opposition of the scriptures.
Jesus said repeatedly, "follow me and you will suffer".

You're off by a mile. Evil is brought upon us by sin, again not God's fault. You want to see that it's God's fault. The problem with translators is they have a bias, so the punctuation is there. Greek and Hebrew have no punctuations. So let's retranslate with the bias of God does no evil. Here's a correct translation (that is if you believe God does no evil):

John 9:3 (Abdicate)

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents. Nevertheless [in] him the works of God be made manifest in him.
​

A correct translation if you do your own homework. HUGE difference. Monumental difference. If you believe God can do no wrong, you can see the power of God by correcting evil.

Because there's so much evil in the world, the logical, and erroneous conclusion is, that God allows it. In reality WE allow sin to flourish. Why was the earth cursed? Did God do it? If you think He did, that shows your mindset, which would be wrong. The earth is cursed because of Adam, Gen 3:17, and thereby the consequences of that one disobedient act is why there's so much evil in the world. Even His disciples said Jesus cursed the tree, which withered and died, but He didn't curse it. Read it again. They said He cursed it. Jesus spoke of the tree's current condition. Jesus didn't tell it to die. It was already dead. Think evil of God and you cannot act like God therefore make God like sinners.

Faith reveals the unseen. Off to bed...

 

[dUmPsTeR]

For this era to be over; whether I'm burned up chaff or not.

 

[Glomung]

You're off by a mile. Evil is brought upon us by sin, again not God's fault. You want to see that it's God's fault. The problem with translators is they have a bias, so the punctuation is there. Greek and Hebrew have no punctuations. So let's retranslate with the bias of God does no evil. Here's a correct translation (that is if you believe God does no evil):

John 9:3 (Abdicate)

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents. Nevertheless [in] him the works of God be made manifest in him.
​

A correct translation if you do your own homework. HUGE difference. Monumental difference. If you believe God can do no wrong, you can see the power of God by correcting evil.

Because there's so much evil in the world, the logical, and erroneous conclusion is, that God allows it. In reality WE allow sin to flourish. Why was the earth cursed? Did God do it? If you think He did, that shows your mindset, which would be wrong. The earth is cursed because of Adam, Gen 3:17, and thereby the consequences of that one disobedient act is why there's so much evil in the world. Even His disciples said Jesus cursed the tree, which withered and died, but He didn't curse it. Read it again. They said He cursed it. Jesus spoke of the tree's current condition. Jesus didn't tell it to die. It was already dead. Think evil of God and you cannot act like God therefore make God like sinners.

Faith reveals the unseen. Off to bed...

I must not be speaking very plainly, I never said that sin is God's fault, I never implied that sin is God's fault.
Sin is not equal to suffering. Jesus suffered plenty, He did not sin. He asks us to do the same at times.
That is the point. Please do not read into my statements words that I did not put there.
God does allow suffering, if He did not, there would not be any.
Or do you intend to imply that God is not in control?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

You're off by a mile. Evil is brought upon us by sin, again not God's fault. You want to see that it's God's fault. The problem with translators is they have a bias, so the punctuation is there. Greek and Hebrew have no punctuations. So let's retranslate with the bias of God does no evil. Here's a correct translation (that is if you believe God does no evil):

(Abdicate)

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents. Nevertheless [in] him the works of God be made manifest in him.
​

A correct translation if you do your own homework. HUGE difference. Monumental difference. If you believe God can do no wrong, you can see the power of God by correcting evil.

Because there's so much evil in the world, the logical, and erroneous conclusion is, that God allows it. In reality WE allow sin to flourish. Why was the earth cursed? Did God do it? If you think He did, that shows your mindset, which would be wrong. The earth is cursed because of Adam, , and thereby the consequences of that one disobedient act is why there's so much evil in the world. Even His disciples said Jesus cursed the tree, which withered and died, but He didn't curse it. Read it again. They said He cursed it. Jesus spoke of the tree's current condition. Jesus didn't tell it to die. It was already dead. Think evil of God and you cannot act like God therefore make God like sinners.

Faith reveals the unseen. Off to bed...

And God has been trying to get the garden back into our hands ever since. "eden covenant"

I must not be speaking very plainly, I never said that sin is God's fault, I never implied that sin is God's fault.
Sin is not equal to suffering. Jesus suffered plenty, He did not sin. He asks us to do the same at times.
That is the point. Please do not read into my statements words that I did not put there.
God does allow suffering, if He did not, there would not be any.
Or do you intend to imply that God is not in control?

Two things Brother Glomung......
God is NOT in control of everything
You labeled suffering as God placing suffering on us for any reason. You claimed sickness was Gods will. It never has and never will be the will of God for any one to be sick.

So brother Glomung I am still interested in where scripture tells us that God uses sickness and harm to do anything in our lives.
Thanks again for writing with me Brother, I do so appriceate it very much.
have a blessed night
Jim

 

[CCW95A]

If God was in control of every thing then the Apostle John sure did not know it.

1John 5:19.. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (NIV)

Where does trials, tribulations, and suffering come into play as for teaching the Church anything?

2Tmi 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Tim 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

If God was in control of every thing then the Apostle John sure did not know it.

1John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (NIV)

Where does trials, tribulations, and suffering come into play as for teaching the Church anything?

2Tmi 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Tim 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

Here is another example......if God was in control of everything....there could be NO what if's.
The the book of Deut. would not be needed....It is full of "if's"
So with choices as 'IF"....well it means that we have some say in all of this. If God was in control of everything.....we would not have Jesus.....we would not have read about God sending prophets to wake people up. I mean why bother.....God said I will destroy your city, why send a prophet to tell them and allow them to repent so as to not destroy the city...Why not just destroy the city?

 

[CCW95A]

Here is another example......if God was in control of everything....there could be NO what if's.
The the book of Deut. would not be needed....It is full of "if's"
So with choices as 'IF"....well it means that we have some say in all of this. If God was in control of everything.....we would not have Jesus.....we would not have read about God sending prophets to wake people up. I mean why bother.....God said I will destroy your city, why send a prophet to tell them and allow them to repent so as to not destroy the city...Why not just destroy the city?

The danger here is there are those who are giving credit to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob for what the Devil is doing. Never a good thing.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The danger here is there are those who are giving credit to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob for what the Devil is doing. Never a good thing.

Yep and as long as the church keeps pushing this tainted religion past down generation after generation, well it would seem the devil has a pretty good thing going for Him. I mean getting the children of God believing He will make them sick and hurt them to teach them a lesson.
With this kind of stuff being taught, the devil does not even have to work in them, they drill it into each others mind generation after generation as the word of God....Ok perhaps I should not have used a capitol G. lol

 

[Abdicate]

I must not be speaking very plainly, I never said that sin is God's fault, I never implied that sin is God's fault.
Sin is not equal to suffering. Jesus suffered plenty, He did not sin. He asks us to do the same at times.
That is the point. Please do not read into my statements words that I did not put there.
God does allow suffering, if He did not, there would not be any.
Or do you intend to imply that God is not in control?

You see what you want to see in my words. I never once said we won't suffer. I only said that God didn't cause them. You want to blame God for your ills, that's fine, He's used to it.