Godly Miracles, Signs, And Wonders

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Agreed. Which my point was, the verse is not talking about being immersed in the water of baptism at all!!!

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Beloved, I take it you are not referring to I Peter, where the seed means the word. Then it must be Jn. 3:5 _ where the Lord says we must be born (give birth, birthed, come out) of water and of the Spirit.
In its context, born in verse 3 is synonymous with conceive; in verse 5, with give birth, or birthed.
The new birth is likened to the natural birth: the conception, and the bringing forth from the womb.

Guideline #3:
"Understand that we live in two realms: the natural realm, and the Spiritual realm.
The spiritual ealm is manifested in the natural realm;
the natural realm attests to the spiritual realm."

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
/b> This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
The way I have seen it, the Word Washes and cleans. James said receive with meekness the en-grafted Word which is able to save your souls (Thinking, emotions, mind)
We are born from the Word (Peter)
Jesus came by blood and Water as witnessed by the Spirit. We are told the Holy Spirit was with Jesus in the womb. This would be a natural birth into a body, into this world.
To be born again, you have to also have a birth certificate born into the World the same way Jesus was.
As God gave the earth to man, to have a rightful place one must be born human. Jesus said the thief came another way and has no birth certificate.
So I see Water as in the effects and power of the Word to clean by comparing scriptures. I see why Jesus had to come as a man to make things legal. A man that did not sin, and took back what Satan took from Adam. A person must be born here from water to be a qualifying spirit.
could be reading a bit much into it. But Jesus comment that the thief came another way makes me think.
Blessings.

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Beloved, the "water" renews and transforms the mind. It refers to the teaching ministry. The apostle remained with Jesus three+ years, and their minds were continually being transformed.
The water in Jn. 3:5 _ does not refer to the water that broke in Mary's womb, nor that Jesus was born with a human spirit .

 

[MichaelH]

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Again, you are not reading my posts, except to quickly put aside what you don't believe and thereby twist everything to denominational understanding.

I suspect this is the case, one reason to just ignore such a person who cares less about others and makes assumptions based on what is in their mind but not what they read.

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Beloved, the "water" renews and transforms the mind. It refers to the teaching ministry. The apostle remained with Jesus three+ years, and their minds were continually being transformed.
The water in Jn. 3:5 _ does not refer to the water that broke in Mary's womb, nor that Jesus was born with a human spirit .

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(Joh 3:5-6)

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(Heb 2:14)

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The simple answer would seem to be "Water Baptism" If you believe that, then fine.

To me it says that to qualify a person must be born human from the womb, water and blood. He was explaining the differences in being born, and Jesus had the authority to do what he did here on earth as a Man. He could not come down with just being the Son of the most High God and things be legal.

Satan who is god of this World came another way. He was not from water and blood, but stole as a thief. Jesus did it the legal way.

I am looking at other things that "May" define God keeping perfect laws, keeping his Word before the devil and doing things without breaking his Word to take back from the devil what he stole.

If you say Water Baptism, then I think there would be enough evidence of that also and would not find fault.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Mitspa]

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Again, you are not reading my posts, except to quickly put aside what you don't believe and thereby twist everything to denominational understanding.
born: = beget, conceive; AND/OR give birth (come out of the womb;
again: = redo, AND /OR from above.

Jesus told Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon, bar-Johan, for flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but my Father
which is in heaven." That revelation did not come from men: it came from tha Father: from above.
Jesus was asking Nicodemus whether he was speaking of himself, or did he receive it from the Father: "...except a man be
born again, he cannor see (perceive, understand, discern) the kingdom of God."
What did Necodemus say? "We know...you are come from God...".
What did Peter say? "You are the...son of the living God."

I cannot believe that that is too difficult for you to understand: so it must be a willing rejection of me (hopefully, only me).

Mr. Villa you can not just make words mean what you want them to mean, you cannot take a word that is translated "born" 5 times in 5 consecutive scriptures, and then make it mean what you "think" god told you. You cannot take the word "again" and make it "above". Words have meanings, and no one who has any time in the study of Greek would accept this as a reasonable translation, much less those of us who are from the "born-again" protestant groups. My point being that trying to convince others of this sort of random "god told me" -so words don't really have meaning, doctrine, destroys your whole testimony with many of us. So I hope you will consider the damage you do to your own witness, by holding on to such an error? May God help us all to see the truth and be humble enough to repent when our errors are made manifest.

 

[Mitspa]

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Beloved, sometimes the word can be understood as water; and other times, as Spirit. What was planted in out hearts was not water, but the seed of the word, which is Spirit: "...the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life."; It is by the Spirit that we are able to see the kingdom of God, and make a choice as to whom to serve.
Unfortunately, many hearers are immediately confused and cannot make a sound decision; others, decide (make a choice) that they will wait (they believe, but like their flesh) until a future time; others allow the word in their lives, but decide they have too many commitments; and others bear fruit unto eternal life.

Beloved, we must take into account that synonyms are used if the original word does not fit the context. In this case, both seed and word correspond to to the context: which infers the planting of something.
Walk holy before the Lord, Beloved

What? Words such as "born" and "again" don't really mean what they say, but we now must "infer" that God intended to say something? I think its time to allow you to believe what "god told you" Mr Villa.

 

[Major]

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Beloved, I take it you are not referring to I Peter, where the seed means the word. Then it must be Jn. 3:5 _ where the Lord says we must be born (give birth, birthed, come out) of water and of the Spirit.
In its context, born in verse 3 is synonymous with conceive; in verse 5, with give birth, or birthed.
The new birth is likened to the natural birth: the conception, and the bringing forth from the womb.

Guideline #3:
"Understand that we live in two realms: the natural realm, and the Spiritual realm.
The spiritual ealm is manifested in the natural realm;
the natural realm attests to the spiritual realm."

Correct....John 3:5 (ESV)
"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

The question I proposed to you was not about birth or conception or spiritual realms. I am simply saying that the WATER in verse 5 IMHO is not wet liquid water, but is in fact the WORD of God.

I am one who does not believe that getting wet in water makes one saved. Wet, yes, saved...NO!

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Mr. Villa you can not just make words mean what you want them to mean, you cannot take a word that is translated "born" 5 times in 5 consecutive scriptures, and then make it mean what you "think" god told you. You cannot take the word "again" and make it "above". Words have meanings, and no one who has any time in the study of Greek would accept this as a reasonable translation, much less those of us who are from the "born-again" protestant groups. My point being that trying to convince others of this sort of random "god told me" -so words don't really have meaning, doctrine, destroys your whole testimony with many of us. So I hope you will consider the damage you do to your own witness, by holding on to such an error? May God help us all to see the truth and be humble enough to repent when our errors are made manifest.

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I don't have to make up any words: any honest man can see from where I'm coming. That's right: I'm calling you dishonest
because you have continually refused to admit what's in front of your eyes. I have not taken your words lightly, but I have
gone back and restudied the scriptures. I have not taken an ENGLISH word to say what it doesn't mean. I have used words
in the Greek interlinear, and compared them to their English meanings, and applied them in the context they were intended. You have not: but you have takem a premise from your den0mination and have stopped your eyes from truth.

You are also trying tp make me a deliberate liar. I will have you know that God speaks to everyone. That includes YOU: if you will only listen to Him. What makes you think is the reason for our repentance? Because we decided to become "good". all of a sudden? No! It is God that initiated our conversion: always has been God. It is the God that many know as the Holy Spirit, and I know as Jesus (because that is His NAME): "For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among me, in which we must be saved." And God is talking to us still, "...through His son...". Yes, He (the son) speaks to us through the scriptures; but He also convinces us of the truth we are reading: unless we refuse to listen.

Beloved, the two worst things that can befall the believer is God not listening, and God not speaking.

Walk in His love, Beloved.

 

[Mitspa]

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I don't have to make up any words: any honest man can see from where I'm coming. That's right: I'm calling you dishonest
because you have continually refused to admit what's in front of your eyes. I have not taken your words lightly, but I have
gone back and restudied the scriptures. I have not taken an ENGLISH word to say what it doesn't mean. I have used words
in the Greek interlinear, and compared them to their English meanings, and applied them in the context they were intended. You have not: but you have takem a premise from your den0mination and have stopped your eyes from truth.

You are also trying tp make me a deliberate liar. I will have you know that God speaks to everyone. That includes YOU: if you will only listen to Him. What makes you think is the reason for our repentance? Because we decided to become "good". all of a sudden? No! It is God that initiated our conversion: always has been God. It is the God that many know as the Holy Spirit, and I know as Jesus (because that is His NAME): "For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among me, in which we must be saved." And God is talking to us still, "...through His son...". Yes, He (the son) speaks to us through the scriptures; but He also convinces us of the truth we are reading: unless we refuse to listen.

Beloved, the two worst things that can befall the believer is God not listening, and God not speaking.

Walk in His love, Beloved.

Yes, Mr Villa God speaks and His words having meaning and they do not change as the winds ,of error, blow.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Correct....John 3:5 (ESV)
"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
The question I proposed to you was not about birth or conception or spiritual realms. I am simply saying that the WATER in verse 5 IMHO is not wet liquid water, but is in fact the WORD of God.
I am one who does not believe that getting wet in water makes one saved. Wet, yes, saved...NO!

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I understand, Beloved. You are of the persuasion that baptism does not save. I agree with you: for without faith, baptism would become a work of the flesh: it cannot save. That is why baptism, by itself, cannot save. However, faith without obedience is not faith! Hear the commandment: "Thou shall not steal." It means not to steal. Why? Because (1) It is God's will that we do His will and be holy before Him; and (2) the punishment is so severe. If we break the commandment, we are to be sentenced to death. So if I steal (after knowing the commandment), then it is because I do not believe the commandment: but I would be believing the serpent from the garden, when it told Eve that she wuould not die.

I have never said that baptism saves; although there may be some denominations that do preach salvation by baptism. I don't know of any. Now there are those who will presume, by my speech, that I am of that persuasion: but I'm not. But it is not only by my speech that one could presume that, but because of their own belief system.

Nevertheless, I am fully persuaded that the scripture in Jn. 3:5 _ is water...of the liquid kind ( I would baptize someone in ice under extreme fever). And yes, I believe we are all called to be baptized in water "...to fulfill all righteousness...". Now that is where it might get a little sticky. There are so many people that are offended by baptism because of wrong teaching, that many, mnay, peoples are not fulfilling the Lords commandment to be baptized (in water), and refuse baptism. There is a difference, I believe, in refusing baptism, and rejecting baptism. It is a matter of the heart, and what preaching one has received. I can only frefer to the words of the Lord: "...teach (make disciples of) all nations, baptizing them...He that believes and is baptized...Except a man be born (be birthed; come out of the womb) of water and of the Spirit..."

Walk holy in the Lord, Beloved.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Yes, Mr Villa God speaks and His words having meaning and they do not change as the winds ,of error, blow.

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Keep reading these posts, Beloved. The Lord will speak to you, and is speaking to you still! I know that it's difficult because the
words from the garden are so loud! But the voice in the garden that should be obeyed is: "...and they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...".

Walk in the Lord, Beloved.

 

[Mitspa]

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Keep reading these posts, Beloved. The Lord will speak to you, and is speaking to you still! I know that it's difficult because the
words from the garden are so loud! But the voice in the garden that should be obeyed is: "...and they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...".

Walk in the Lord, Beloved.

Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

It is very hard to believe, but marvel not! "ye must be born-again"

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

What? Words such as "born" and "again" don't really mean what they say, but we now must "infer" that God intended to say something? I think its time to allow you to believe what "god told you" Mr Villa.

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So you are going to "allow" me to believe...interesting. Time to get sarcstic...not!

 

[Mitspa]

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So you are going to "allow" me to believe...interesting. Time to get sarcstic...not!

Well some things are so deeply rooted in a man, some errors have been believed and taught for so long that it would most likely destroy a person if these errors where removed from them. Do you destroy a tree to save it? No, the tree may not have fruit but it can give some shade to some, who are passing by.

 

[Mitspa]

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Keep reading these posts, Beloved. The Lord will speak to you, and is speaking to you still! I know that it's difficult because the
words from the garden are so loud! But the voice in the garden that should be obeyed is: "...and they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...".

Walk in the Lord, Beloved.

What was the words that satan used in the garden to corrupt Gods truth? "did God really say"? Does His Words have meaning or can they just be ignored ? or we must "infer" what god intended to say. No it is very plan end evident what these words mean, "ye must be born-again" But "did God really say" right?

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Well some things are so deeply rooted in a man, some errors have been believed and taught for so long that it would most likely destroy a person if these errors where removed from them. Do you destroy a tree to save it? No, the tree may not have fruit but it can give some shade to some, who are passing by.

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If the tree has fruit, why even think about removing it, unless it is as obstacle in another's path. Now if the tree is in the path, then it stands to reason that the Lord has put you there to "...taste and see that the Lord is good...".

You have been citing scripture for those who have already received (believed and obeyed, not just heard) the Gospel. I have been citing the Gospel. It is still: "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For this promise is unto you, and unto your children, to them that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call...Then they that gladly received his word were baptized...".

You have been judging with denominational doctrine: for to you a tree that does not bear your denominational fruit is considered bare. Had you lived during the times of my Brother, you might not have heard his voice crying in the wilderness! I heard his voice, and believed, when he cried: "Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world."

Beloved, walk in holiness before the Lord.

 

[AllieWi]

When He protected my unborn baby and saved me from drug addiction. Miracle!

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

What was the words that satan used in the garden to corrupt Gods truth? "did God really say"? Does His Words have meaning or can they just be ignored ? or we must "infer" what god intended to say. No it is very plan end evident what these words mean, "ye must be born-again" But "did God really say" right?

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Did I say that it was satan walking in the morning...? Satan cannot corrupt God's truth: he can only induce cause man to disobey: truth will cause the man to be "...willing and obey...".

We can surely "infer" what the scriptures say/mean, if the inference (1) does not contradict scriptures; and (2) can be confirmed by other scriptures. The inference cannot contradict and confirm at the same time: unless they are interpreted by the carnal
mind to mean something else (PLEASE: the "carnal mind" is man thinking in his natural abilities).
It seems that you are wanting to interpret scripture by pure logic, and not by the Spirit.

Beloved, walk in obedience before the Lord.

 

[Major]

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I understand, Beloved. You are of the persuasion that baptism does not save. I agree with you: for without faith, baptism would become a work of the flesh: it cannot save. That is why baptism, by itself, cannot save. However, faith without obedience is not faith! Hear the commandment: "Thou shall not steal." It means not to steal. Why? Because (1) It is God's will that we do His will and be holy before Him; and (2) the punishment is so severe. If we break the commandment, we are to be sentenced to death. So if I steal (after knowing the commandment), then it is because I do not believe the commandment: but I would be believing the serpent from the garden, when it told Eve that she wuould not die.

I have never said that baptism saves; although there may be some denominations that do preach salvation by baptism. I don't know of any. Now there are those who will presume, by my speech, that I am of that persuasion: but I'm not. But it is not only by my speech that one could presume that, but because of their own belief system.

Nevertheless, I am fully persuaded that the scripture in Jn. 3:5 _ is water...of the liquid kind ( I would baptize someone in ice under extreme fever). And yes, I believe we are all called to be baptized in water "...to fulfill all righteousness...". Now that is where it might get a little sticky. There are so many people that are offended by baptism because of wrong teaching, that many, mnay, peoples are not fulfilling the Lords commandment to be baptized (in water), and refuse baptism. There is a difference, I believe, in refusing baptism, and rejecting baptism. It is a matter of the heart, and what preaching one has received. I can only frefer to the words of the Lord: "...teach (make disciples of) all nations, baptizing them...He that believes and is baptized...Except a man be born (be birthed; come out of the womb) of water and of the Spirit..."

Walk holy in the Lord, Beloved.

This is not one of the fundamentals of the faith r=that divides people. I for one believe every believer should be baptized because it is being obedient to the Lords command.

My contention is that it is not required for salvation. I say that because of logistics more than anything else. Having a military background I have personally been involved with men who sincerely came to accept Christ but because of where we were or the situation we were under, water baptism was completely impossible. Those men were 100% saved !! Some were baptized later and some died in combat. To say that a man was not saved in situations like that is really a problem for me. I have been there and every situation has to be handled separately.

It is always good to speak with you And you be blessed my brother.

 

[Mitspa]

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If the tree has fruit, why even think about removing it, unless it is as obstacle in another's path. Now if the tree is in the path, then it stands to reason that the Lord has put you there to "...taste and see that the Lord is good...".

You have been citing scripture for those who have already received (believed and obeyed, not just heard) the Gospel. I have been citing the Gospel. It is still: "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For this promise is unto you, and unto your children, to them that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call...Then they that gladly received his word were baptized...".

You have been judging with denominational doctrine: for to you a tree that does not bear your denominational fruit is considered bare. Had you lived during the times of my Brother, you might not have heard his voice crying in the wilderness! I heard his voice, and believed, when he cried: "Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world."
Beloved, walk in holiness before the Lord.

Well not sure I have seen the fruit? I have seen what appears to be a changing of scripture without regard to The Lords Words or the intention for which He spoke. Was you alive during the time that John the Baptist, spoke these words? Or are you trying to make it appear as if you are in some deep condition of spiritual awareness, that others fail to grasp? lol

 

[Mitspa]

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Did I say that it was satan walking in the morning...? Satan cannot corrupt God's truth: he can only induce cause man to disobey: truth will cause the man to be "...willing and obey...".

We can surely "infer" what the scriptures say/mean, if the inference (1) does not contradict scriptures; and (2) can be confirmed by other scriptures. The inference cannot contradict and confirm at the same time: unless they are interpreted by the carnal
mind to mean something else (PLEASE: the "carnal mind" is man thinking in his natural abilities).
It seems that you are wanting to interpret scripture by pure logic, and not by the Spirit.

Beloved, walk in obedience before the Lord.

Sorry, of course satan can corrupt the truth in the minds of man and he uses, "did God really say" and it is by this means that he corrupts and perverts the gospel. Attempting to change obedience to faith and the simplicity in Christ, to complex doctrines and obedience to mans religion.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.