Light is manifestation without sin. There is no sin in the energy. Jesus was a spiritual manifestation on earth without sin in human form.
Last edited:
Learning Genesis
- Thread starter TubbyTubby
- Start date
- Status
I can remember God speaking to me in my mother's womb. I always knew Him. My family weren't believers. I always knew God.
There actually are a lot of unbelievers and scholars who do not believe in Jesus who will site historical evidence that he existed on earth.
I'm going to have to go back and address some earlier comments when I have some more time but this one is interesting.
I have trouble recalling anything before maybe 4 years old at best. I am getting on a bit but I don't think I could honestly say I could go further back than that.
Do you remember your actual birth?
I can only remember, really, to age 2. But like Olivia, I can't remember a time I did not believe in God. But my Mom was very into God.
As for demographics... yes and no. I think in the case of most Arabs, they have a racial predisposition to
A) hating Jews and anything Jewish and
B) Believing that God is bound by man's ideas of birthright. They insist that Ishmael not Isaac was heir to the proise given to Abram later Abraham.
So I think that there is a mix of racial heritage and therefore obviously demographic influence there.
Other brought up in a Buddhist environment will mostly go with the flow. Just as in the Christianized cultures of western civilization, most go with the flow, which is now strongly atheistic/materialistic.
I think it is interesting when people break free of the traditions of their parents. When a Buddhist becomes a Christian or a muslamaniac or an atheist or what ever. Same thing when any body 'jumps ship'
So I think demographics can dictate which camp people are in, but not exclusively.
A) hating Jews and anything Jewish and
B) Believing that God is bound by man's ideas of birthright. They insist that Ishmael not Isaac was heir to the proise given to Abram later Abraham.
So I think that there is a mix of racial heritage and therefore obviously demographic influence there.
Other brought up in a Buddhist environment will mostly go with the flow. Just as in the Christianized cultures of western civilization, most go with the flow, which is now strongly atheistic/materialistic.
I think it is interesting when people break free of the traditions of their parents. When a Buddhist becomes a Christian or a muslamaniac or an atheist or what ever. Same thing when any body 'jumps ship'
So I think demographics can dictate which camp people are in, but not exclusively.
Quite, I could maybe go back to 3 years at a real push but I would struggle to recall anything specific, just a vague emotional memory I suppose. That's why I find someone saying they can remember something from the womb utterly amazing.
I can remember a time when I didn't believe in God, or more properly believe God.I can only remember, really, to age 2. But like Olivia, I can't remember a time I did not believe in God. But my Mom was very into God.
I think I probably ran the full gamut of belief systems (except muslamania).
Yes, it is amazing, even extraordinary, but not at all impossible.
That's true. I have met people who say they can remember before age 1 but they are rare.
Not impossible granted but I am curious as to how an unborn baby can have a concept of god before they have even begun to form memories. The brain has not yet started to develop. The first learning comes from basic sounds and shapes so I would like to know how a baby can know what a god is?
Luke 1:41-42 (KJV)
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.
I was going to post that.
The memory I mentioned that can't be placed in time by other family members was Mum telling my oldest sister to put me in the cot for a nap.....was it a cot? or was it a cradle? I can't be sure, but either way I had to be very young and small She is only 6 1/2 years my senior so I would have to have been a reasonably young bub, else I would maybe have been too heavy for her to lift. The thing is, I understood Mum telling her to do it, long before I could talk, and my focal point for all this is the fact that I very definitely did not want to be put down for a nap by someone other than Mum. I think that because in general our memories don't go back very far into infancy, we tend to think that they don't exist...but they do.
Though I don't claim any prenatal memory for myself, I can believe that God can speak to the unborn if He chooses, and that unborn could understand. Rare granted, but again, not beyond possible.........What a focal point that would be!
I also remember my first giddying step. Again I have a focal point for this memory...my sisters made such a fuss and called out to Mum that I had taken my first step. (We were out on the front lawn) I think in general early memories do require a strong focal point else they are lost.
Funny, I remember things from when I was two, confirmed by my parents, but now I have trouble remembering what I had for lunch!
Amen...
Well actually, as a person well vested in biological and psychological studies, I can say with assurance that even the memory of the "in the womb" experience is there somewhere. The brain one developed records all of our sensory experience...sounds, impulses, feelings of dissatisfaction satisfaction pain pleasure etc.! It is just a matter of tapping into it...memories of the comfort, the heartbeat of our mother...and studies have shown the Fetus responds to sounds (even the voice of the familiar people)...so who can really say....I once had a memory that ket plaguing me and dreamt of it (no visuals but sounds and conversation) a few times and when I told my parents they told me that was not possible since the event happened when they were driving though west Boston when I was still in my mother's stomach (womb of course)...
During our pre-natal experience in the womb, we all, in common, live a sort of corporately interdependent oneness with our mother. We develop a vague sort of memory here marking the most primitive backdrop against which all the rest of life is measured. The mirror neurons and senses are experiencing even before the mind can create and catalogue in picture or language.
Later that background proceeds into a sensory recognition of corporate familial and environmental unities as a good thing. In some way, though inadequate to fully reach it, these unities provide a substitute sense of this primordial oneness. Out from within this experiential background, our interdependency outside the womb for the first couple of years develops finally into a sense of full blown recognition of self-distinction from other beings and things. This occurs by the time we are about two to three years old.
In this final stage, we not only notice the differences between self and others, but between one thing and another, especially where the contrasts are ever so significant. There seems to be an innate drive or propensity by which we spend the rest of our lives desiring to return to the protective, nurturing, comfort and security of the original experience of pre-natal oneness. In the development of all our rites of passage and other social associations we are recreating higher and higher unions. This is shared by all in this most common human experience. It is biologically programmed to occur from the very beginning of human conception, and on the other hand by continuously facing and struggling with our personal, social, and environmental differentiations (I and other, us and them, man and environment, pain and pleasure, good and evil, and so on).
Based on the reality of this common three tier subconscious experiential ground, i.e., the prenatal symbiosis, this unity amidst the whole or many, and the eventual and final discernment of differentiation of self, many important common aspects of culture become figure. This three tier experiential ground plays out in the life of the individual, as well as our collective motivations, for the rest of our lives (ever seeking greater and greater unions). Obeying our parents to gain affections, becoming an adult, the mating game, discrimination, group dependency, faith communities, vocational guilds, and other such rite of Passage rituals help substitute the very vague and unconscious desire to return to that womb experience. The attention paid to good verses bad, helpful verses harmful, and so on, which is deeply imbedded in the universality and purpose of religion, its subsequent various forms, rites, and the natural division of things into sacred and profane, are based on this experience. Experientially they are very reasonable options. They do not however fulfill in an actual sense. The momentary achievement of a nirvana like state or the experience of genuine relationship with God are much closer and achievements like these in our experience are always the highest form of oneness we can attain to outside the womb. I find this a most sound basis and explanation for the universality of these phenomena outside of simply admitting that there is a Creator or creators.
Going through this common experiential reality of the sense of primordial oneness at this critical foundational level in our ego’s development, and then our developing sense of autonomy/relation, I believe is one of the inner witness’s that God planned in every human being. It provides us all with a sense of God’s higher reality, as well as a drive to know God, and a drive to have God’s protection and favor, and causes us to desire ever greater communions including the ultimate union or relationship with the God(s)/forces. Whatever system it is called (religious inclination of any and all civilizations), all these are designed and developed as means of achieving that highest of unions within our unique societies. This goes for all people and their institutions respectively, which all mimic to one degree or another, or provide substitution for the original almost transcendent sense of oneness and security we had in the womb which can only be satisfied in the spiritual.
Many religious and societal rituals and rites of passage express this need! Hugging, sexual union, baptisms, circumcisions, inaugurations, officiations, marriage, graduations, consecrations, etc., are all attempts to connect us into a higher and higher unions on levels greater than self.
Sorry, I get deep I know but this may speak to Tubby if he reads it slowly and considers it in relation to this idea of the possibility of deep past memory...
brother Paul
Later that background proceeds into a sensory recognition of corporate familial and environmental unities as a good thing. In some way, though inadequate to fully reach it, these unities provide a substitute sense of this primordial oneness. Out from within this experiential background, our interdependency outside the womb for the first couple of years develops finally into a sense of full blown recognition of self-distinction from other beings and things. This occurs by the time we are about two to three years old.
In this final stage, we not only notice the differences between self and others, but between one thing and another, especially where the contrasts are ever so significant. There seems to be an innate drive or propensity by which we spend the rest of our lives desiring to return to the protective, nurturing, comfort and security of the original experience of pre-natal oneness. In the development of all our rites of passage and other social associations we are recreating higher and higher unions. This is shared by all in this most common human experience. It is biologically programmed to occur from the very beginning of human conception, and on the other hand by continuously facing and struggling with our personal, social, and environmental differentiations (I and other, us and them, man and environment, pain and pleasure, good and evil, and so on).
Based on the reality of this common three tier subconscious experiential ground, i.e., the prenatal symbiosis, this unity amidst the whole or many, and the eventual and final discernment of differentiation of self, many important common aspects of culture become figure. This three tier experiential ground plays out in the life of the individual, as well as our collective motivations, for the rest of our lives (ever seeking greater and greater unions). Obeying our parents to gain affections, becoming an adult, the mating game, discrimination, group dependency, faith communities, vocational guilds, and other such rite of Passage rituals help substitute the very vague and unconscious desire to return to that womb experience. The attention paid to good verses bad, helpful verses harmful, and so on, which is deeply imbedded in the universality and purpose of religion, its subsequent various forms, rites, and the natural division of things into sacred and profane, are based on this experience. Experientially they are very reasonable options. They do not however fulfill in an actual sense. The momentary achievement of a nirvana like state or the experience of genuine relationship with God are much closer and achievements like these in our experience are always the highest form of oneness we can attain to outside the womb. I find this a most sound basis and explanation for the universality of these phenomena outside of simply admitting that there is a Creator or creators.
Going through this common experiential reality of the sense of primordial oneness at this critical foundational level in our ego’s development, and then our developing sense of autonomy/relation, I believe is one of the inner witness’s that God planned in every human being. It provides us all with a sense of God’s higher reality, as well as a drive to know God, and a drive to have God’s protection and favor, and causes us to desire ever greater communions including the ultimate union or relationship with the God(s)/forces. Whatever system it is called (religious inclination of any and all civilizations), all these are designed and developed as means of achieving that highest of unions within our unique societies. This goes for all people and their institutions respectively, which all mimic to one degree or another, or provide substitution for the original almost transcendent sense of oneness and security we had in the womb which can only be satisfied in the spiritual.
Many religious and societal rituals and rites of passage express this need! Hugging, sexual union, baptisms, circumcisions, inaugurations, officiations, marriage, graduations, consecrations, etc., are all attempts to connect us into a higher and higher unions on levels greater than self.
Sorry, I get deep I know but this may speak to Tubby if he reads it slowly and considers it in relation to this idea of the possibility of deep past memory...
brother Paul
I don't think it is a matter of the physical body. Everyone has a spiritual body. God was speaking to my spirit which is why I could understand. If you know that matter is made of energy and thus the physical body is made of energy, why is it hard to understand that people can have a spiritual body made up also of energy. Not all energy is the same.
Romans 3:3 say, "God has allotted to each a measure of faith." Because of this I had the ability to spiritually comprehend what was being said to me.
None of us can see sound waves, but they exist. Certain animals can see colors in the spectrum that we can't, but it doesn't mean those colors don't exist.
My parents and sisters did not believe at all and I was always different from them because what God taught me and continued to teach me put a passion in me that caused me to be extremely different from my family. There were no outer friends or family that believed the gospel either.
I knew it was God speaking to me and I knew him to be true. His reality is a burning fire of life. It is the opposite of void and lack of meaning. God from my start because of this has been so compelling a life and truth to me that my every thought is intertwined with His existence.
You are looking for answers in the outer physical world. I believe the spiritual world is more real and that it is the everlasting world. Things in the physical world decay, break, die. I have no confidence in them, but what God put in me in my mother is so real that it has been my driving obsession for my entire life. Don't think I was loved for my beliefs, but since I knew it to be truth I stood on it no matter what the consequences.
- Status