Halleluiah!...Praise the Lord!
Learning Genesis
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Halleluiah!...Praise the Lord!
Ohh...... but it can my friend. It says what it says and when it is an allegory or a poem it tells you that as well.
If not, then it is left up to us to explain the meaning of God's Word and we my friend are depraved sinners not seeking God and are unable to even explain the universe we live in much less what WE think that God was trying to say.
We as Christians are not called to explain what God did or said but instead to believe what he has done and said.
This is where I have difficulty, you MUST believe the bible even though it clearly contradicts a known observation? Or you dismiss that observation as nonsense because it contradicts the bible/word of God.
This sums up very well why it would be difficult for me to accept the bible really.
It's not a must type of thing. I don't like throwing around scripture because I know the clips and snips out of context can just about prove any stupid point and has been used by people to do the most horrible things throughout history. I go for the heart of scripture and try to apply what I understand. When you really study God's Word with a group of people who throw in historical context, archeological information, science - not to mention language translations without scriptural sculpting and context - you see things you never saw before and they make sense. People who share their time and energy at the drop of the hat to learn and teach. I don't like to read books over again and mainly it's never worth the time or trouble. But every time I read the bible I see new things. I fully expect to learn new things about Genesis this time, if we ever get there. It's a give and take. Believeing makes it more understandable right out of the gate. And maybe you won't get it but it has value either way for both of us.
Well, I do understand your thinking but unfortunately that excuse will not apply for you.
1. You have never believed upon the Lord Jesus so you do not know what or how you would think if you did.
Before I was saved I thought whiskey was the nectar of the gods.
Before I was saved I thought that sex was the answer to all loneliness.
Before I was saved I was absolutely positive that my great, great, great grandfather (x 1 million) was a gorilla.
2. You have never, by your own words read the Bible. That disqualifies your observation of the Bible.
Before I read the Bible I knew that I was the best thing to ever happen to humanity.
Before I read the Bible I knew that I was smarter than everyone else.
Before I read the Bible I knew that there was no truth to be found from a bunch of middle eastern, dusty Jews.
Tubby, you have a conscience. We all have a conscience. Your conscience is the voice of God within you, and you must listen to it and obey it. May I say to you that YOU are here at a Christian web site because God has in fact spoken to YOUR conscienceousness.
You will not admitt it, but why else would you be communicating with us if it is not a cry for truth.
That conscienceousness will tell you when something is right, and it lets you know with no mistake when something is wrong. My feeling is that you know something is wrong with what you have been thinking and you are reaching out for help.
My how things change when we actually do that thing which blinds us to another way of thinking.
I don't need to know the bible to know that it doesn't align with science though do I? I've read plenty of comments on this forum to realise that.
I'll continue with Genesis however as I feel I should give it a chance.
You see Tubby, there are many of us here that have been in the same place as you, Major is saying the same thing to you that I have been saying, only he has a way with words, he's more gentle than me, I apologize for my harshness, kinda like good cop, bad cop, ...but we are saying the same thing, and the reason we know what we are talking about is because in the process of being awakened out of our death sleep we went searching for Christians too, just like you are doing, we thought we were hiding our real intentions, ha!, but they could see, just like we can see what you are doing, ...we ask you about your spirituality, but you pretend you don't have any, ...'cuz evolutionist teaching says you came from animals and animals don't have a spirit, but the fact is, confirmed from what you have said here, is you are finding you do have a spirit and it is starting to wake up and that is scaring you because you don't want to believe it or be held accountable to anyone, especially God. Also the fact that you won't take the time to consider or even ask God if He is real or exists is proof of why you are here searching, right now you are afraid of the answer.
Another reason we know God is calling you is because the Bible says, ...there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. Rom 3:11 , ...but here you are!
Just consider this, for how many years of your life were you content living with your atheistic views and life, and now, ...here you are......, Tubby there is a God, He loves yous with a never ending love, He became a Man, died for you because He wants you to be with Him, He knows what you say, that you don't believe in Him or want anything to do with Him, but He still loves you and has brought you here to us, ...He is calling you Tubby, please stop resisting and consider what we are saying.
In His Love,
Gene
Another reason we know God is calling you is because the Bible says, ...there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. Rom 3:11 , ...but here you are!
Just consider this, for how many years of your life were you content living with your atheistic views and life, and now, ...here you are......, Tubby there is a God, He loves yous with a never ending love, He became a Man, died for you because He wants you to be with Him, He knows what you say, that you don't believe in Him or want anything to do with Him, but He still loves you and has brought you here to us, ...He is calling you Tubby, please stop resisting and consider what we are saying.
In His Love,
Gene
There are a lot of scientists who believe the
Although I believe the bible was created in six days, I think what is important is what the bible is saying to us spiritually in Genesis 1. God has the power to manifest anything good that he wants because He has perfect faith, thus having unwavering belief that what He says is true and so it comes about.
God has the capacity to reason and think in a manner that is incomprehensible to us. He understands and reasons. He knows all things at all times. "Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether" (Psalm 239:4).
God is present everywhere.
"Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, read more.Even there Your hand will lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me. If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night," Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You (Psalm 139:7-12).
God's understanding is beyond our reasoning abilities. Who here is omniscient knowing everything, including all people's thoughts at all times.
"But even the hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:30). Who can comprehend this kind of intelligence?
This kind of intelligence however could think up and create what He has created.
Can human kind even fathom enough to make accurate scientific judgments when compared to this kind of intelligence. Again it comes down to the infinity of proving proof, because we are not all knowing or present everywhere. Therefore trust is based on God's astounding intelligence verses human minute intelligence.
The amazing thing is that God who is also all powerful, is humble and considers love to be greater than everything.
2 years ago, a very close friend of my wife died very young from breast cancer.
The last contact I had with her was forcing her to her feet when she was weak and dancing with me. We danced for an hour even though she could barely stand. We talked about dying and I remember clearly one moment I kissed her head and wished that her cancer would leave her and go to me instead.
Of course it didn't, she passed away but at that time when we danced I was willing to take her illness so that she could be well again, even though I knew it wasn't possible.
My wife stayed with her and held her hand while she passed away.
Some time after the funeral I talked about this with my wife and I was worried that it may seem selfish that I had considered taking the illness from her friend. My wife had thought the very same thoughts as it happens (i.e. my wife also was prepared to take the illness so her friend would recover) and that brought us closer than ever.
This is my example of compassion and love as I know it.
The last contact I had with her was forcing her to her feet when she was weak and dancing with me. We danced for an hour even though she could barely stand. We talked about dying and I remember clearly one moment I kissed her head and wished that her cancer would leave her and go to me instead.
Of course it didn't, she passed away but at that time when we danced I was willing to take her illness so that she could be well again, even though I knew it wasn't possible.
My wife stayed with her and held her hand while she passed away.
Some time after the funeral I talked about this with my wife and I was worried that it may seem selfish that I had considered taking the illness from her friend. My wife had thought the very same thoughts as it happens (i.e. my wife also was prepared to take the illness so her friend would recover) and that brought us closer than ever.
This is my example of compassion and love as I know it.
This is an atheist point of view remember.
Gene....I know you mean well but for my sake, instead of good cop bad cop........can we go Pretty cop and ugly cop!
I feel a lot better when I am pretty than I do when I am good! (I'm not good most of the time).
AND that is exactly what Jesus DID DO for you and me and the whole world tubby. You are saying exactly what we all have been saying to you......do you not see what you are saying????
You said you die for that person KNOWING that there was no possible way for it to happen. Jesus said it and did when He knew that was what He was going to do. The thought is the same but the HOW to do it only resides in Jesus not you and me.
Romans 5:7-8
"For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die......BUT God commendeth His love toward us in that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, Christ died for us".
One of the historic fundamentals of the faith is the vicarious Atonement, in which Christ died as a substitute for us.
Tubby......I am a sinner!!!! YOU are a sinner!!! Every single person on this forum is a sinner! Personally, I should be beaten and whipped and placed on a cross to die for MY sin. I have lied, stolen, been addicted to alcohol, killed men, used God's name in vain. You name it and I have done it. BUT God who is rich in mercy and Grace DIED for me so that I would be able to live eternally with Him who created me in the perfection od time past. HE TOOK MY PLACE AND YOUR PLACE.
THINK about your life and what you have done and then consider the love of God for you that He would take your place and be killed for you. And please do not come back with something like....I was never that bad or I didn't do any of the real bad things in my life. YES you did!!!!!
A little boy once did exactly what his father told him not to do. His father told him that if he disobeyed him again he would have to be whipped. Low and behold, what did the little boy do??? Exactly what he had been told not to do. His mother caught him the very next day and told her son to lie down on the bed because she was going to have to punish him with a spanking. It was at that very moment that the father came home and saw what was going on. He told his son to get up off the bed and instead he laid down an he accepted the whipping for his son. The father took his sons place and that is what God did in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. He born the punishment for our sins.
I am very glad you are interested in the Creation story but again remember, it is not how we start life, but it is all about how we end our life. Creation starts it but the cross is God's way of ending it for us.
If that is the case, then why do you accept Evolution?
You accept it by faith ignoring how it is contradicted by a known recorded explanation.
You accept it without being able to observe it.
You accept it and you can not replicate it.
And when you can not explain any other way, you simple dismiss the other explanations as Biblical nonsense.
Hmmmmmm.
Your example should make you want to know Jesus more. Jesus loved people so much that he took the eternal suffering and spiritual death on himself, so we could be free. I hope you read Isaiah 53:2-10 that I posted in my long thread. I will post it here again.
Speaking of Jesus the bible says,
"He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:2-12).
I have more explanation in my long post, but the point is that God willingly did all this for us, bearing our transgressions and punishment on himself. Isaiah 52:14 says of Jesus, "there were many who were appalled at him -- his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness" (Isaiah 52:14).
They beat Jesus so badly for our sins that he didn't even look human.
God in every way relates to our suffering. Like you wanted to do for your friend, Jesus did for us. That is love.
Jesus was so badly beaten that when Peter caught His eye, he went out and wept "bitterly".
You have missed the point completely. Every one of you.
Is your point that as an atheist you had love?
Then is the point that as an atheist you are so misguided and selfish that you would wish for your children that they be left without a father, and for your wife that she would be a widow?
How could you possibly force a dying woman who could barely stand to dance for an hour?? That doesn't sound like love or compassion......it sounds like dedicated hate. Tubby Tubby, are you really that hollow as a human being or are you just playing with us??
You didn't really read what I said did you Calvin?
An atheist can be compassionate, and caring and loving and patient.
They are just not forgiven of their sins and will have to pay for them by themselves.
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