Yep you said that Rahab did not "lie'..I showed you the clear evidence of scripture...now the roster is crowing! Please, no more lectures on honesty from you!I always admit error but I don't see any at this time
Yep you said that Rahab did not "lie'..I showed you the clear evidence of scripture...now the roster is crowing! Please, no more lectures on honesty from you!I always admit error but I don't see any at this time
Wow. I guess I fall in the no lies camp but I am astonished that it is the minority view. There is ALWAYS a way to tell the truth. Jesus never lied and He saved everybody! I have never seen a lie that wasn't self serving. And I worked in the criminal justice system for 27 years. And I have lied. I try especially hard not to do it any more. If you want to save innocent lives - turn them to Christ. It is a specious argument to say that someone should lie for any reason. You do not have to lie if you remain silent or misdirect with questions. For years I have heard it is okay to tell a "white" lie and I have never found any truth in that. I have never found truth in the so-called "brutal" truth either. Both are lies. And I have never seen a lie help an innocent. And it is very easy to lie, most of all, on computer. Lies are portals - doorways- into your very soul, and they open the way to evil. Not that many people hid Jews from the Nazis. Historical fact says that most people collected bounty in turning them in and those who hid them. Those who hid them, in most cases - were never asked. None of the people, who hid Ann Frank and her family were ever prosecuted.
I would question a burning bush that told me to lie. It is against God and love.
Well there is a difference between saying you would and you will. But I agree.One of the first things I learned as a Christian way back when was "never say never, and never say you would do something" Every time I said those kinda of things I found my self doing what I said I would not do, and not doing what I said I would do. I did not know any scriptures to back that up, but I knew there was some kind of spiritual law I was exercising that caused me to experience these things. Kinda like, what ever a man soweth that shall he also reap". These spiritual laws are operational in our life whether you know them or not. I kept telling new believers to not say these kinds of things because you can not guarantee for sure you would not do or do what you say. That is where James chapter 4 tells us....
James 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit"--
James 4:14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
James 4:15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that."
James 4:16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
When we say we would never do or do something about the future what we are really doing is "boasting" about ourselves, (which is pride, and we know that pride comes before a fall) which james calls evil. Now I know what spiritual laws I was breaking that caused me to experience these things. Never say never, and never say you would do something when you can not guarantee you would.
Ill be watching you too, friend...Great response!
I think the point Mitspa is trying to make is that lying in some cases may actually be loving. Just like how Jesus supposedly broke the sabbath to save a life, Rahab lied to keep people safe. It is not a sin to keep people safe, is it?Love is all about truth. It's not legalese. David committed adultury and set Uriah up to be slain. He's part of the bloodline too. I have found, when I think about it, there's is always a way to tell the truth . I may not give all of it or say anything at all but I no longer reach for a lie.
lying in and of itself is not righteous, but it can be done righteously and lovingly.Rahab lied and all those of her people died. She saved 2 men and how many died? I get what is being said but lying is not righteous. And I don't say what anyone else should do - And if I am around when they demand I take the mark or die - I will gladly die. And I won't take any other hiding Christians with me. If the truth cannot be said - I will say nothing. In deadly/fatal circumstances, I will let the HS lead me but under normal circumstances, I do not live with apartheid or under Nazi Germany or under the antichrist, so I am going with lying is bad period.
Have you read the scriptures?..or just those that you think apply to your false understanding of righteousness? Legalism is death, love is life...this is the Gospel!The scripture did not say, "by faith Rahab lied" there is no such a thing. It says by faith she received the spies in peace. She believed that Israel were truly the children of God. Any one who lies is being influenced by the father of lies which is the Devil.