When Did Christ "forgive" Certain Old Testament Laws?
- Thread starter PeaceLikeaRiver
- Start date
None. None of them were ever "Revoked"....
Every law has a Purpose.... Every law has a benefit...
We do not obtain Holiness by following the Law....
But... There may be physical consequences if we do not follow the Law....
As Paul says in the "When we were Children - we needed a Tutor"......
Think of this.... 3,500 years ago - no one on the planet Earth understood microbes, food spoilage, refrigeration, bacteria, heavy metal poisoning, heavy metal buildup in the liver, iodine allergies, or things like that... Shoot - it's only been like the last 50 years that we have been unwinding this stuff. And... even today, if you don't KNOW it's safe - don't eat local shellfish... too many risks.... and even when it's "Safe" - it's NOT always safe...
On the mixed clothing - one specific reference is to clothing woven of Flax mixed with Wool.... This combination has some specific properties that makes it perhaps the 100% worst combination you could come up with for a textile.....
The fats/oils in the wool attack the flax
The dyes for wool aren't compatible with flax and vice versa
The shrinkage is massively different between the two fibers resulting in bunching and tears
The wool won't really "Stick" to the flax when making yarn - and the garment basically pulls apart...
The soaps that wash Flax well tend to destroy Wool and vice versa....
The washing conditions that wash flax well tend to destroy wool.... The washing conditions that tend to wash Wool well won't clean flax.....
And the list goes on and on.....
The Law today is still in effect. "The soul that sins shall die" There is no getting out of this for anybody on planet earth. The Law only has dominion over the man that is still alive, but once that man dies the Law has no more dominion over him. The problem is where you die. If you die outside of Christ then you are forever lost. If you died with Christ on the cross, then you have been brought back to life through the resurrection of Christ from the dead and the Law has no more authority over that man. By doing this God's Word stay intact without ever breaking it, as it said the soul that sins must die.
Those who belong to Christ are to live their life as one who has been raised from the dead.
Those who belong to Christ are to live their life as one who has been raised from the dead.
The Law wasn't revoked, it was refined. Jesus showed how they kept the law was wrong. Let's go to the source.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
The question then is, "What is meant by fulfilled?" You could say fulfillment came after He rose again. Or you could say when He comes again. I would lean towards after He rose again and ascended to the Father.
Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:
Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Jesus Forbids Oaths
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Go the Second Mile
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you
Divorce-
Matthew 19:
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
So basically, God permitted divorce because the Israelites needed it, not because He wanted divorce to be law.
And we all know how Jesus showed what was intended by keeping the Sabbath. All work was not to be disallowed. Just the work that didn't need to be done. If you were doing something good for someone, in essence showing love, that work was encouraged.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
The question then is, "What is meant by fulfilled?" You could say fulfillment came after He rose again. Or you could say when He comes again. I would lean towards after He rose again and ascended to the Father.
Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:
Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Jesus Forbids Oaths
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Go the Second Mile
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you
Divorce-
Matthew 19:
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
So basically, God permitted divorce because the Israelites needed it, not because He wanted divorce to be law.
And we all know how Jesus showed what was intended by keeping the Sabbath. All work was not to be disallowed. Just the work that didn't need to be done. If you were doing something good for someone, in essence showing love, that work was encouraged.
The Law is still causing people to see and know they are sinners so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Jesus fulfilled the law for those who were his seed in which he carried within himself when he went to the cross.
Now we are the righteousness of God by what Jesus accomplished by fulfilling the law for us. Our only work is to believe he did this for us.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Now we are the righteousness of God by what Jesus accomplished by fulfilling the law for us. Our only work is to believe he did this for us.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
I would argue that it has not all been fulfilled yet.... Every year you see more and more parts of the "Law" being codified here and there in legal systems as we "Learn" about the nature of the Universe and Earth..... I view that as being "Fulfilled" - where we finally understand the WHY behind the law....
For example.... Why is the washing with the ashes of the Red Heiffer important? What was this given to Man to accomplish? That's still a mystery..... When the time is right - God will show us that this is actually useful for something in real life..... Until then - it's simply a mystery.....
Is it possible that God often operates by "contract," yet each contract is extended opportunistically to us by His love?
What contract is afforded to all people now by His shed blood?
What contract was offered to the Nation of Israel in the Old Testament?
What contract did you "agree" to?
For if one agrees to obey the covenant offered through Moses then that person should obey it to the letter. Yet if one agrees to the covenant offered by "Christ and with His shed blood, then obedience to that contract should be observed.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
The point is that some people will say that such-and-such is no longer considered a sin because Jesus forgave it, but they will not say the same thing about another law. And it all seems very arbitrary. So I just wondered if Jesus put up a list somewhere of the ones that don't apply anymore and that ones that still do. If not, I'm forced to conclude that certain people are making things up.
Thanks, that clear things up to some questions I have....
Thanks for the reminder, am currently reconciling my thoughts on “Law of Man with divine authority” with the “Divine Law”….and how it is stated in the OT….
Although I understand your point (post# 17)... thus, am currently trying to observe Sabbath for a healthy mind and body purposes : )
It is not really to try and put laws into the various lists. We are no longer under law. At the same time the underlying moral standards is what defines sin to this day.
I wish we could end this once and for all. The Law is perfect and demands perfection. The Law was given to prove to arrogant men they cannot be like God. God's love saw that this Law was not keepable for someone born into sin, so He sent His Son to be born sinfree from a sinful virgin (showing that sin is passed through the man's genes). He lived a perfect sinless life and gave up His life for us, replacing His innocence with our sin and His innocence was given to those that believe in their heart and trust God's work. Then having paid for our wages of sin, death, rose from the dead to show that He even had power over death. Since our places were swapped, we became ONE in Him. His death is our death. His resurrection is our resurrection. His fulfillment of the Law is our fulfillment of the Law through Him. Now, since we are dead with Him, there is no Law. Period. The End. Yet we are clearly warned:
There is no interpretation. There is no "original" meaning. It is what it is. If you choose to live under the Law you are clearly free to do so. Just remember you'll have fallen from Grace and Jesus died for nothing - to you.
1 Peter 2:16-17 (KJV)
As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
There is no interpretation. There is no "original" meaning. It is what it is. If you choose to live under the Law you are clearly free to do so. Just remember you'll have fallen from Grace and Jesus died for nothing - to you.
Galatians 5:3-4 (KJV)
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Jesus' death and resurrection gave YOU YOU YOU the ability to overcome sin. It's your choice.I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Hebrews 6:1 (KJV)
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
I see no contradiction those who eat meat and those who do not, those who observe special days, those who do not…
Both do it and give thanks to the Lord…..
Romans 14:6King James Version (KJV)
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Would you agree that Christ "changed" how sin is addressed here on earth?
King, it seems to me that as I grow older and wiser (???) what Christians have chosen to follow from the Old Testament, and what they have chosen to ignore is based on convenience for themselves, their own prejudices, personal sins they will not repent of and the willingness to relax moral and behavioral codes so as to retain and maintain membership in their congregations and peace in their families.
What they follow, and don’t follow in the Old Testament, or in the New Testament, has nothing to do with what the Bible actually says.
Wasn't the sin issue addressed on the cross?
Studying the Bible helps immensely with this issue. There was no "law" for the first 2,000 years plus of man's existence. God chooses Abram to covenant with to make a people as God's chosen. There is still no law through the next 400 years, until the enslaved Israelites are freed and wander in the wilderness. Now, who did Moses preach and teach these laws to? Many nations? No, just the Israelites. Even up to Jesus' time, the law only pertained to the Jewish people.
Christ came to show us the true meaning of the law, and to take the penalty of sin for us. Love was the true meaning of the law, and this is what the law was meant for. Those Israelites who just came out of bondage were a wild and unruly bunch, to say the least, and the laws given to them were the only way to teach love and decent behaviors to this out of control people.
Jesus taught of the faith needed to be forgiven and saved from sin. Jesus taught that the OT law was not the supreme standard which needed followed without fail. Love God, and love others, was the standard, and all other laws were understood only by the attachment of these two primary laws.
My example is the law of speed limits. This is a metaphor btw. Speed limit laws are needed because so many will drive too fast and cause hazards for others. Those who are not under the influence of Christ need the law to help control their lead foot. Those who are saved do not need the law anymore because they will drive as safely as possible, metaphorically, because the One who gave the law is living inside of them, helping to control their actions and convicts them to repent(change from unsafe driving habits) to make them safe drivers. They are controlled by the Source(God), and have no need for the law to control them. Jesus is vouching for them, so saying they need to follow the law is insinuating that what Jesus has done for us is not good enough!
Anyone who has studied Romans would gain the knowledge of how sin is dead and the OT law went with it, for the Christian who has been truly saved.
Christ came to show us the true meaning of the law, and to take the penalty of sin for us. Love was the true meaning of the law, and this is what the law was meant for. Those Israelites who just came out of bondage were a wild and unruly bunch, to say the least, and the laws given to them were the only way to teach love and decent behaviors to this out of control people.
Jesus taught of the faith needed to be forgiven and saved from sin. Jesus taught that the OT law was not the supreme standard which needed followed without fail. Love God, and love others, was the standard, and all other laws were understood only by the attachment of these two primary laws.
My example is the law of speed limits. This is a metaphor btw. Speed limit laws are needed because so many will drive too fast and cause hazards for others. Those who are not under the influence of Christ need the law to help control their lead foot. Those who are saved do not need the law anymore because they will drive as safely as possible, metaphorically, because the One who gave the law is living inside of them, helping to control their actions and convicts them to repent(change from unsafe driving habits) to make them safe drivers. They are controlled by the Source(God), and have no need for the law to control them. Jesus is vouching for them, so saying they need to follow the law is insinuating that what Jesus has done for us is not good enough!
Anyone who has studied Romans would gain the knowledge of how sin is dead and the OT law went with it, for the Christian who has been truly saved.