Doctrinal Authority

[CCW95A]

I do not wish to get into an argument over perfection. But one thing I will point out, in order to maintain the false teaching of "dual nature" and that a saint is still a sinner with a sin nature, it must be taught that Paul is speaking about his present state in Romans 7 as a saved man but still bound. This is error. If you truly rightly divide Romans 7, it is clear that Paul was referring to the past and his condition before salvation. Paul moves back and forth in Romans 7 in his explanation of the unsaved and saved states. One must understand the previous chapter s in Romans in order to understand chapter 7. Paul was clearly talking about his wretched state under the Law. Paul only considered himself wretched and a sinner when he was unsaved and under the bondage of the Law.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Leemg]

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 1:
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I never said we cannot sin. I never said we do not sin. I said when we sin it is because we CHOOSE to sin. We sin by CHOICE. We are under no bondage to sin.

Oftentimes we will say we have fellowship with the Lord but we are in sin. This is a lie because there is no darkness in the Lord. If we have sin in us we have no fellowship with Him.

So the Word continually tells us to EXAMINE OURSELVES. If there is any sin in us at any time, be honest. Don't deceive yourself. Repent, confess it and get out the evil and walk in the truth.

That is what your scripture means.....

 

[CCW95A]

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I never said we cannot sin. I never said we do not sin. I said when we sin it is because we CHOOSE to sin. We sin by CHOICE. We are under no bondage to sin. So the Word continually tells us to EXAMINE OURSELVES. If there is any sin in us at any time, be honest. Don't deceive yourself. Repent, confess it and get out the evil and walk in the truth.

That is what your scripture means.....

I think you might not fully understand what exactly is the human nature in man. Man has five physical senses, which all are connected to this physical brain. From these five senses man is able walk and operate within this physical world, being able to contact and interact with physical things. This is the human nature of man. Then we have the divine nature which is Christ himself, the exact same Spirit that was in Jesus. The reborn spirit of man has exactly the same kind of senses as the physical man, except he contacts and operates with the realm of the spirit. The spirit man sees, hears, tastes, smells, and feels, but all these senses are only connected to the reborn spirit of man. The "strong meat" of the Word will only be given to those who have, and do continually exercise these senses which are not a part of man's human nature.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:12
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[Leemg]

I think you might not fully understand what exactly is the human nature in man. Man has five physical senses, which all are connected to this physical brain. From these five senses man is able walk and operate within this physical world, being able to contact and interact with physical things. This is the human nature of man. Then we have the divine nature which is Christ himself, the exact same Spirit that was in Jesus. The reborn spirit of man has exactly the same kind of senses as the physical man, except he contacts and operates with the realm of the spirit. The spirit man sees, hears, tastes, smells, and feels, but all these senses are only connected to the reborn spirit of man. The "strong meat" of the Word will only be given to those who have, and do continually exercise these senses which are not a part of man's human nature.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:12
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Thank you but I do understand "human nature" and "divine nature".

I think you might not fully understand the "New Man". The new creature in Christ, Jesus being the firstborn of many brethren having the same indwelling Spirit. The Spirit of Christ. That really is the issue along with what actually takes place at that point of SALVATION when we are raised in Christ and made complete in Him.

 

[GBzone]

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The BODY is still subject to sin and death. But has been IN Christ redeemed "ready to be revealed ..."
The SPIRIT has been regenerated or BORN again NOW if we are IN Christ.
The MIND despite a person being BORNagain needs to be brought into conformity to the Word of God .Progresively and to a place where every thought is brought into subjection the mind of CHrist .
and by that the LIFE that is LIVED is transformed .

In Christ
gerald

 

[CCW95A]

The BODY is still subject to sin and death. But has been IN Christ redeemed "ready to be revealed ..."
The SPIRIT has been regenerated or BORN again NOW if we are IN Christ.
The MIND despite a person being BORNagain needs to be brought into conformity to the Word of God .Progresively and to a place where every thought is brought into subjection the mind of CHrist .
and by that the LIFE that is LIVED is transformed .

In Christ
gerald

I agree Brother. The "carnal mind" , and the "mind of Christ" do not dwell in the same place. The former is in our physical brain, and the latter within man's new heart. Conforming (renewing) the natural mind to be be in agreement with the spiritual mind causes one to have confidence in God, and then every thing we ask we receive from him. The heart and the mind must be in agreement.

1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 

[Leemg]

The BODY is still subject to sin and death. But has been IN Christ redeemed "ready to be revealed ..."
The SPIRIT has been regenerated or BORN again NOW if we are IN Christ.
The MIND despite a person being BORNagain needs to be brought into conformity to the Word of God .Progresively and to a place where every thought is brought into subjection the mind of CHrist .
and by that the LIFE that is LIVED is transformed .

In Christ
gerald

The New Man is not subject to sin and death. He is 'NEW MAN' and raised up to proclaim the righteousness and glory of God. It is raised complete in Christ - body, soul and spirit. That is what the Word of God says and we who are born of God know and have touches and have tasted and have experienced the power of the resurrection. Scripture also says we have received the MIND OF CHRIST. This is the mind of the New Man. We are told to walk in His mind.

 

[Major]

I do not wish to get into an argument over perfection. But one thing I will point out, in order to maintain the false teaching of "dual nature" and that a saint is still a sinner with a sin nature, it must be taught that Paul is speaking about his present state in Romans 7 as a saved man but still bound. This is a grave error that has been taught to many in the church and which therefore takes them on a trail throughout the bible with the wrong perspective of the New Man, Salvation and the Mystery of Godliness.

If you truly rightly divide Romans 7, it is clear that Paul was referring to his past and his condition before salvation. Paul moves back and forth in Romans 7 in his explanation of the unsaved and saved states. It is also very important to understand the previous chapters in Romans (especially 3 - 6) in order to understand chapter 7. In chapter 7, Paul is clearly talking about his wretched state under the Law. Paul only considered himself wretched and a sinner when he was unsaved and under the bondage of the Law. He NEVER refers to himself as under bondage or a sinner anyplace in scripture unless you take Romans 7 and come up with a private interpretation. Paul is very explicit all over the New Testament as to the power of the resurrection in him and his continual admonishment to the churches to be holy and preserve themselves blameless. Paul's teachings are not that of one who sees himself as a sinner. Quite the contrary!!!!

And I likewise have no intention of argueing with you. However good Christian debate in love is healthy my brother. So to that end I must tell you that I can not agree with your denominational opinion. It may be "denominationaly correct" but certainely not Biblically correct.

Paul was speaking to his position. His practical position. He plyed up Christ more than himself! Do you see the trajectory as Paul matures in faith? This is what happens when you boast in Christ alone. Your weakness becomes more evident. You can’t help but make much of Christ and little of self. That is maturity according to Paul—boasting in nothing but Christ’s grace and our weakness.

Romans 7:25 clearly states............
"I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

James 3:2 says concerning his Christian experience writes.........
"We all stumble in many ways.

In fact 1 John 1:8 declares.....
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Just for clarification...."The idea of Sinless Perfection" did NOT originate with Hagan or Copeland or Hinn or the other WOF proponents. If you will just take about 5 minutes and do the homework you will find out that it was years ago that John Wesley, one of the founders of the Holiness Movement, introduced into the Christian community the idea that Christian perfection can be achieved in this life through a second work of grace - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But that presnts a really bif obstacle to overcome. The fact is that the New Testament books do not make any mention of a second work of grace in this life which causes one to be sinlessly perfect. Instead of "sinless perfection" everything written is written concerning living rightly and overcoming sin. We see that the Bible when correctly divided is written not to non-Christians, but rather to those label - the elect - the saved - those born of God.

So it does not take a lot of thinking and understanding to come to the conclusion that if such people are only capable of doing right and incapable of committing any acts of sin, such exhortations would be unnecessary, don't you think? To support Holiness theology one would have to find verses which apply not to all Christians but to a particular class of Christians in which perfect sanctification is attained.
And there is YOUR problem my brother. There are NO Bible verses which teach such a thing!

 

[By Faith]

Matthew 7:21 that you are speaking to simply does not apply because those that Jesus was speaking to were never saved. Not all who profess to be born agaib are in fact born again and that was the focus of Jesus's teaching. It IS just that simple.

Now to a another point, you are very vocal to admit that you do not follow any doctrines in your understanding of God's Word.

May I say to you that that is one of the real dangers of Christianity today. When you do not accept Bible doctrines you open the door to those false teachers who will come along and say to you exactly what you want to hear and then you are hooked because proper doctrine was ignored or rejected. I encourage you to re-think your position on this.

Major, this is why I don't like mans doctrines. "MANS"

Go back, read the passage again............. You say it says one thing, but it does not. You think it should say what you said because of a doctrine.

I read things, and say it says this, when it don't. It really bugs me later when I realize that I just believed something I heard for a long time without questioning it, and it takes a long time to even get something simple across to me.

Major.......... WE ALL HAVE JUNK WE NEED GOD TO HELP WITH>

I ask you to humbly go back, read it again.

Not everyone saying Lord, LOrd will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

BAM.............. OSAS says the Kingdom of Heaven must be eternal life, so they can't be saved. Can't see past that.

NO, Jesus said nobody saying Lord, Lord be able to rule with me in Heaven.

This folks were not saying they were saved, they never mentioned accepting Him as Lord as the condition. They already called him Lord, and listed Works produced under his Lordship.

What your saying Major is the unsaved have authority over devils and can speak prophecy.

You don't need to be filled with the Holy Spirit then.

It's after Jesus told them they will not reign with him, they said........ did we not cast out devils? Did we not speak prophecy? did we not do might works IN THY NAME?

What unsaved Person does works in the name of Jesus? I have never met one, not even one.

Nobody calls Jesus Lord (As in their Lord) but by the Holy Spirit.............. Thats a scripture.

They said we did Works in Your Name Lord.............. What unsaved person thinks that way?

What unsaved person would Jesus tell depart because they commited acts against the will of God? NOBODY, He came to save the unsaved who don't do the will of God.

you can't read it like I am reading it Major because it means you have to change a Doctrine, but scriptures always trump doctrines.

 

[Leemg]

And I likewise have no intention of argueing with you. However good Christian debate in love is healthy my brother. So to that end I must tell you that I can not agree with your denominational opinion. It may be "denominationaly correct" but certainely not Biblically correct.

Paul was speaking to his position. His practical position. He plyed up Christ more than himself! Do you see the trajectory as Paul matures in faith? This is what happens when you boast in Christ alone. Your weakness becomes more evident. You can’t help but make much of Christ and little of self. That is maturity according to Paul—boasting in nothing but Christ’s grace and our weakness.

Romans 7:25 clearly states............
"I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

James 3:2 says concerning his Christian experience writes.........
"We all stumble in many ways.

In fact 1 John 1:8 declares.....
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Just for clarification...."The idea of Sinless Perfection" did NOT originate with Hagan or Copeland or Hinn or the other WOF proponents. If you will just take about 5 minutes and do the homework you will find out that it was years ago that John Wesley, one of the founders of the Holiness Movement, introduced into the Christian community the idea that Christian perfection can be achieved in this life through a second work of grace - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But that presnts a really bif obstacle to overcome. The fact is that the New Testament books do not make any mention of a second work of grace in this life which causes one to be sinlessly perfect. Instead of "sinless perfection" everything written is written concerning living rightly and overcoming sin. We see that the Bible when correctly divided is written not to non-Christians, but rather to those label - the elect - the saved - those born of God.

So it does not take a lot of thinking and understanding to come to the conclusion that if such people are only capable of doing right and incapable of committing any acts of sin, such exhortations would be unnecessary, don't you think? To support Holiness theology one would have to find verses which apply not to all Christians but to a particular class of Christians in which perfect sanctification is attained.
And there is YOUR problem my brother. There are NO Bible verses which teach such a thing!

P. S. I am your sister in Christ. Also, I have never been a follower of Hinn, Copeland or any of the celeb preachers out there. Never. My belief system is not based on doctrines of men and women. In fact, if one of their broadcasts flash across my screen, I am quick to move on. I don't mix the manna. I follow no man nor agree with 90% of what is being fed to the body of Christ in what most people see as the great megachurches and power teachers. I attend a church that rightly divides the Word of Truth and continues steadfastly in the apostle's doctrine.

 

[Major]

I believe you explained it quite well Faith. I do believe much of the problem with people not seeing the truth is tradition. Tradition makes the Word of God of none effect in saved and unsaved lives. The doctrines of men keep the truth from being revealed to them. In addition, after the death of the last apostle we know the church went into the dark ages. And in doing so apostolic order was discarded. The church no longer followed the apostles’ doctrine and so many other doctrines were added to the faith. Thus we have the birth of denominationalism. Denominationalism divided the body of Christ and opened it up for heresy and every evil thing. False teachings and false doctrines have done horrific damage to the church and has kept the saints ignorant and powerless. Unfortunately the truth about SALVATION and the Mystery of Godliness has been trampled on and discarded. Jude had the same problem. Re-Read the Book of Jude and its warnings about the great apostasy.

You are absolutly correct!!!!!

Just consider what we are discussing right here!!! Sinless Perfection! Really?????
We are disuccing something that you say is doctrine which can not be found in the Scriptures!!!!!

Consider comment #147 where we read this.........
"The New Man is not subject to sin and death. He is 'NEW MAN' and raised up to proclaim the righteousness and glory of God. It is raised complete in Christ - body, soul and spirit. That is what the Word of God says and we who are born of God know and have touches and have tasted and have experienced the power of the resurrection. Scripture also says we have received the MIND OF CHRIST. This is the mind of the New Man. We are told to walk in His mind."

I would be interested in knowing where we would find the comment of.......
"The New Man is not subject to sin and death."

Maybe I am misunderstanding so I will ask clearly. Are you saying that the saved man will no longer committ sin while he is alive and will not die a physical death?

1 Corth. 15:9-10 Paul said.........
" For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am. "

Eph. 3:8".........Paul considered himself as "the very least of all saints."

That 1 Corinthians was written before Ephesians shows he became more sensitive to sin as time went on. It is clear that Paul saw himself as having fallen from the position of the least of the apostles to less than the least of all believers.

The terms Paul uses in Romans 7 are so precise that we can't miss his struggle with sin. He states that he hates committing sin (v. 15), that he loves righteousness (vv. 19, 21), that he delights in the law of God from the bottom of his heart (v. 22), and that he thanks God for the deliverance that is his in Christ (v. 25). Those are the responses of a mature Christian and not of any "sinless perfection".

 

[GBzone]

The New Man is not subject to sin and death. He is 'NEW MAN' and raised up to proclaim the righteousness and glory of God. It is raised complete in Christ - body, soul and spirit. That is what the Word of God says and we who are born of God know and have touches and have tasted and have experienced the power of the resurrection. Scripture also says we have received the MIND OF CHRIST. This is the mind of the New Man. We are told to walk in His mind.

The new man is the new INNER man .
I was speaking about the outer BODY .THAT is still subject to sin and death.
The new man is CHRIST .

and the BODY is DEAD because of sin .
Let not sin REIGN in your MORTAL body .

If Christ the NEW man reigns then the body stays dead and buried .
In due time the BODY which has already been redeemed will one day be revealed "ready to be revealed" The purchased possession"
The confusion is I think stems from a lack of appreciation of the tri part being of man and to which each part of the gospel applies to each.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Leemg]

Are you saying that the saved man will no longer committ sin while he is alive and will not die a physical death?

I have never said that a New Creature in Christ will never sin. If you read all of my posts, what I have said is that a true born of God, Son of God, new creature in Christ does not have to sin. We are no longer held captive to sin.
If WE sin, it is by CHOICE.

 

[Leemg]

The new man is the new INNER man .
I was speaking about the outer BODY .THAT is still subject to sin and death.
The new man is CHRIST .

and the BODY is DEAD because of sin .
Let not sin REIGN in your MORTAL body .

If Christ the NEW man reigns then the body stays dead and buried .
In due time the BODY which has already been redeemed will one day be revealed "ready to be revealed" The purchased possession"
The confusion is I think stems from a lack of appreciation of the tri part being of man and to which each part of the gospel applies to each.

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

You are absolutly correct!!!!!

Just consider what we are discussing right here!!! Sinless Perfection! Really?????
We are disuccing something that you say is doctrine which can not be found in the Scriptures!!!!!

Consider comment #147 where we read this.........
"The New Man is not subject to sin and death. He is 'NEW MAN' and raised up to proclaim the righteousness and glory of God. It is raised complete in Christ - body, soul and spirit. That is what the Word of God says and we who are born of God know and have touches and have tasted and have experienced the power of the resurrection. Scripture also says we have received the MIND OF CHRIST. This is the mind of the New Man. We are told to walk in His mind."

I would be interested in knowing where we would find the comment of.......
"The New Man is not subject to sin and death."

Maybe I am misunderstanding so I will ask clearly. Are you saying that the saved man will no longer committ sin while he is alive and will not die a physical death?

1 Corth. 15:9-10 Paul said.........
" For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am. "

Eph. 3:8".........Paul considered himself as "the very least of all saints."

That 1 Corinthians was written before Ephesians shows he became more sensitive to sin as time went on. It is clear that Paul saw himself as having fallen from the position of the least of the apostles to less than the least of all believers.

The terms Paul uses in Romans 7 are so precise that we can't miss his struggle with sin. He states that he hates committing sin (v. 15), that he loves righteousness (vv. 19, 21), that he delights in the law of God from the bottom of his heart (v. 22), and that he thanks God for the deliverance that is his in Christ (v. 25). Those are the responses of a mature Christian and not of any "sinless perfection".

he had not fallen into sin .
It is simply the higher you go In Christ the lower you have to get .
A new born child of God even as a new born child of earth soils and eats soils and eats till he learns to control himself .
What is tolerated in a new BORN is not so tolerated in little children.
and what is tolerated in little children is not tolerated in young men
and what is tolerated in a young man is like a fly in the ointment of a wise man .

We do make too much leeway of our own sins and excuse much .
In fact the church has justified 40 years of wandering in the wilderness as the NORM of Christian life when it took them only 40 DAYS to get from Egypt to the banks of the river Jordan.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Major]

Major, this is why I don't like mans doctrines. "MANS"

Go back, read the passage again............. You say it says one thing, but it does not. You think it should say what you said because of a doctrine.

I read things, and say it says this, when it don't. It really bugs me later when I realize that I just believed something I heard for a long time without questioning it, and it takes a long time to even get something simple across to me.

Major.......... WE ALL HAVE JUNK WE NEED GOD TO HELP WITH>

I ask you to humbly go back, read it again.

Not everyone saying Lord, LOrd will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

BAM.............. OSAS says the Kingdom of Heaven must be eternal life, so they can't be saved. Can't see past that.

NO, Jesus said nobody saying Lord, Lord be able to rule with me in Heaven.

This folks were not saying they were saved, they never mentioned accepting Him as Lord as the condition. They already called him Lord, and listed Works produced under his Lordship.

What your saying Major is the unsaved have authority over devils and can speak prophecy.

You don't need to be filled with the Holy Spirit then.

It's after Jesus told them they will not reign with him, they said........ did we not cast out devils? Did we not speak prophecy? did we not do might works IN THY NAME?

What unsaved Person does works in the name of Jesus? I have never met one, not even one.

Nobody calls Jesus Lord (As in their Lord) but by the Holy Spirit.............. Thats a scripture.

They said we did Works in Your Name Lord.............. What unsaved person thinks that way?

What unsaved person would Jesus tell depart because they commited acts against the will of God? NOBODY, He came to save the unsaved who don't do the will of God.

you can't read it like I am reading it Major because it means you have to change a Doctrine, but scriptures always trump doctrines.

I will do yuou one better.

Matthew 7:21-23New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Now consider properly the "context" of those verses.

Matt. 7:21-23............
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

The Lord Jesus is warning us about false teachers. The false immediately tells us that THEY are not saved people. They are NOT God's people. They are FALSE therefore no truth can be found in them.

Then Jesus says concerning those false prophets.......
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Now my dear friend, I just do not see anyway to understand those words other than to say that Jesus was talking about LOST PEOPLE. His exact words were....FALSE PROPHETS. How can that be thought to be anything else??????

It just can not be referring to believers because every believer, truely born again person will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air whether alive or dead. NO born again believer will ever here our Lord say....."Depart from me, I never know you".

 

[Major]

Thank you for that responce and that makes your comments a lot more understandable.

I agree with your thoughts and forgive me of presumption.

 

[Major]

he had not fallen into sin .
It is simply the higher you go In Christ the lower you have to get .
A new born child of God even as a new born child of earth soils and eats soils and eats till he learns to control himself .
What is tolerated in a new BORN is not so tolerated in little children.
and what is tolerated in little children is not tolerated in young men
and what is tolerated in a young man is like a fly in the ointment of a wise man .

We do make too much leeway of our own sins and excuse much .
In fact the church has justified 40 years of wandering in the wilderness as the NORM of Christian life when it took them only 40 DAYS to get from Egypt to the banks of the river Jordan.

in Christ
gerald

I agree. Paul did not FALL IN TO SIN. He was still a sinner because his nature did not change. Our Old nature of sin never goes away my friend.

We are freed from sins penality but we still live in a body prone to sin......not because we want to but because we can not help it.

That is what Paul was trying teach us in Romans 7.

I have never said that a New Creature in Christ will never sin. If you read all of my posts, what I have said is that a true born of God, Son of God, new creature in Christ does not have to sin. We are no longer held captive to sin.
If WE sin, it is by CHOICE.

I can not agree with that as the Bible does not support it.

We are all born with a built-in death warrant, which is our sin nature, because we have inherited this sin nature from Adam we are already born spiritually dead (separated from God) and die physically.

1 Cor. 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.” Death came by Adam and the resurrection can only come to mankind by believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[Leemg]

Very true. The New Man is Christ in our Flesh. But it is a holy body - a New Man - a holy temple. The Old Man died at the point of salvation and the New Man was raised up. It is the holy temple of God. The Father has quickened it alive again unto righteousness. Jesus is able to condemn sin in the flesh because he is living in the flesh.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

The body is no longer a body of sins, but it is now the Body of Christ. For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones (Ephesians 5:30).

It is now Christ who rules our bodies. The body has no power other than what our soul tells it to do. When the body dies it goes to the grave. We can no longer blame this fleshy body for sin. It is the soul that stands before God. When we sin, it is because our soul has usurped authority over the Christ in us and has made a choice to sin.

 

[Leemg]

I agree. Paul did not FALL IN TO SIN. He was still a sinner because his nature did not change. Our Old nature of sin never goes away my friend.

We are freed from sins penality but we still live in a body prone to sin......not because we want to but because we can not help it.

That is what Paul was trying teach us in Romans 7.


I can not agree with that as the Bible does not support it.

We are all born with a built-in death warrant, which is our sin nature, because we have inherited this sin nature from Adam we are already born spiritually dead (separated from God) and die physically.

1 Cor. 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.” Death came by Adam and the resurrection can only come to mankind by believing in Jesus Christ.

Paul's nature did change. At one point he even said he was 'very Christ'. He also said it is no longer I but Christ who lives. Christ does not live in His temple with a sin nature which brings captivity. He died to set us free from son. There is no such thing as an old nature in a new creature/true believer. At the new birth or at the point of salvation, we become a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come (2 Cor. 5:17). He or she becomes TOTALLY NEW.

The new nature (WE ARE PARTAKERS OF GOD'S DIVINE NATURE) replaces the old nature/sin nature. It is Christ's Nature. The New Creature is a totally transformed NEW MAN.

The dual nature doctrine is a false doctrine.