I just can't see how God is a loving God when He sends unbelievers to burn without end, and without rest. I understand that we are all very wicked, and that it was out of God's mercy that we are able to be saved. But what about those people who reject God because of people who claim to be Christians but they abused them in the name OF Christianity? What about those have a somewhat legitimate reason for not accepting Christ? Something just does not seem right.
Poll on hell
- Thread starter KingJ
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Glomung
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Why do folks blame the jailor for having criminals in the jail? The criminals committed the crimes, and for this, receive their just punishments.
In the case of Hell, the punishment is eternal because the crime is eternal in nature. The unrepentant damned cannot be changed, they have made choices with eternal consequences, and would not turn from these choices if given the chance. They have had the chance thousands of times over and have turned it down.
A living being cannot be "unmade", once a living being is created it is just as eternal as God Himself is. For good or ill, that being must exist FOREVER.
The choice is eternal friendship with God, or eternal hostility towards God.
In the case of Hell, the punishment is eternal because the crime is eternal in nature. The unrepentant damned cannot be changed, they have made choices with eternal consequences, and would not turn from these choices if given the chance. They have had the chance thousands of times over and have turned it down.
A living being cannot be "unmade", once a living being is created it is just as eternal as God Himself is. For good or ill, that being must exist FOREVER.
The choice is eternal friendship with God, or eternal hostility towards God.
Glomung
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The issue at hand has little to do with "unbelief", Hell is full of believers. It has to do with willingness or unwillingness to OBEY.
Bad Christians will be judged more harshly than bad athiests. At the end, it will all come down to who is willing to say "yes" to God.
Nobody will be condemned without full and free understanding of the situation at hand.
So the crime is rejecting God?
I guess my parents would fall into this category. Please pray for them, I already talked to them about a"true Christian" buy whenever I say something about God to them, unless it is "God bless" or "thank God", they ALWAYS laugh at me. When NY dad sees me studying the Bible, he always acts like I am going something wrong. They claim to be believers, but live a secular life. My brother does as well.
To begin, there really is no legitimate reason for not accepting Christ. There are understandable cases where someone may struggle with his faith because of abuse, but it doesn't ultimately lead to a good reason. Our greatest heroes endured difficulty in their life and accomplished greatness despite those difficulties...our mission isn't to be happy or rich (though those things as they are aren't wrong -- they just aren't our mission)...our mission is to become holy.
When I mentioned hell and God being just, I meant exactly that. God doesn't send people to hell against their will. People who go to hell have made that choice for themselves. Hell really is a quarantine of evil...a place where those who said "I don't want God -- I want Him far from me" will go because it is what they have chosen. And even if someone doesn't say this with their lips, they can easily say this with their actions. Not everyone who says His will actually go to Him.
God is also very merciful. I don't have reason to believe God sends those to hell who had no ability to even make that choice, like little children for instance. God wants everyone to be in heaven with Him, but not everyone wants that, and because God loves us enough to grant us free will, He knows not everyone will share the same sentiment.
Like Glomung said, we don't blame the jailor for the crimes of the criminals.
1. Torment can be seen as torture. But you have to understand it is a different word. Torment is stronger then to vex but weaker than to torture.
Would you say a grieving widow is being tortured or in torment?
The definitions are a non issue. The fact is that torment is being used to describe a state of painful regret and torture, a state of active torture. Regret vs brazen bull. Try focus on that. You are creating a red herring otherwise.
2. How so? If you murdered my kid, which treatment from me would you want? 1. I put you in a brazen bull for 25 years. 2. I kill you or 3. I explain to you that I am removing you from society to a prison because you are a murderer.
Now most assume God's treatment of His enemies is worse then the Geneva convention treatment of enemies. On par with the Russians of WW2. But I don't. As you said above ''God is love''
.If God does not love His enemies like He commands us to love ours, how is He not a hypocrite? God is not a hypocrite.
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By the way, Juk, you are asking some excellent questions, especially for such a young guy. Many people aren't brave enough to even contemplate these things.
Keep it up. We are all still learning ourselves, even the most learned of us.
Keep it up. We are all still learning ourselves, even the most learned of us.
Now I understand. I asked God to help me because I was about to apostasize because of this. Thank God and thank you!
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. One thing that I wonder about is why God decided to add torture in there....
Torture is what logically follows when separated from God. Hell is devoid of anything related to God because God is not present even remotely. Comfort, happiness, joy, pleasure, companionship -- these are gifts from God. While these things are abused on earth (selfish-pleasure for example), these are things that God has given to us...we don't always experience them here on earth -- sometimes, we may experience worse -- but we do experience them in heaven.
They can't be experienced in hell because God isn't there. Torture is the only other alternative because it is a removal of those things. It's loneliness, pain, sadness, constant distress.
God is a God of love, justice, but even logic. It would be illogical to have a place devoid of God and still find a gift that only God gives us.
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Glomung
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That touches on issues that are not covered in scripture, but can be inferred by an understanding of the merciful nature of God.
Lets just say that the fires of Hell are God's last attempt at getting a person's attention. Just as pain exists to let you know that you have injured yourself and to "not do that again", Hell's sufferings are a last ditch attempt to get a person to rethink their attitudes before the Final Judgement. Understand that once you are free of the body and the foolishness that tends to go with it, all your sins and errors are laid bare before you, and for many, for the first time in their existance, they cannot lie to themselves any longer.
So how would salvation by faith alone as the Bible teaches come into all this?
There is no more hope in hell...
The fires...?
Just a mention here of the nature of the Lake of Fire. It was created by God and is being held set apart for Satan and his angels---not for human beings. Satan and his angels deserve to be condemned forever! However, human beings have chosen to follow after Satan and have chosen against righteousness. Therefore, their destiny is equal to Satan's. Hence the eternal aspect of it. It is not meant for human spirits.
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