Poll on hell
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
- Status
Eternal torture contradicts God's loving nature. There are also not to many verse directly supporting it.
Universalism is obviously wrong.
Eternal torment is the same as eternal torture in the sense that it contradicts the Lord's loving nature.
Annihilation is supported by Scripture and matches God's loving nature. No amount of sin can be worthy of eternal torture. Ever. Not even Satan has sinned that much. Only an eternity of sin is worthy of an eternity of torture. But that is just my opinion. Complete annihilation is also supported by Romans 9 where it says that God will show mercy unto those He chooses. Then it gives Pharaoh as an example. Is Pharaoh going to Heaven? No. But how is burning Pharaoh forever showing him mercy? I guess Judas would also fall into this category. But making them not exist anymore is showing them mercy though. Another thing: the Bible says that the punishment of the wicked will monitored by the Lamb, or Jesus. Is Jesus going to watch people burn for all eternity? I think not. I actually wrote a journal entry on this on Easter and I was meaning to post it as a thread.
Universalism is obviously wrong.
Eternal torment is the same as eternal torture in the sense that it contradicts the Lord's loving nature.
Annihilation is supported by Scripture and matches God's loving nature. No amount of sin can be worthy of eternal torture. Ever. Not even Satan has sinned that much. Only an eternity of sin is worthy of an eternity of torture. But that is just my opinion. Complete annihilation is also supported by Romans 9 where it says that God will show mercy unto those He chooses. Then it gives Pharaoh as an example. Is Pharaoh going to Heaven? No. But how is burning Pharaoh forever showing him mercy? I guess Judas would also fall into this category. But making them not exist anymore is showing them mercy though. Another thing: the Bible says that the punishment of the wicked will monitored by the Lamb, or Jesus. Is Jesus going to watch people burn for all eternity? I think not. I actually wrote a journal entry on this on Easter and I was meaning to post it as a thread.
Being confined forever away from the presence of God is eternal misery. That the place is called hell, or the lake of Fire and its properties are dismal, cavernous and darkness is so thick you can cut it with a knife, and that there is burning sulfur there in vast, uncontained areas is pretty darned close to the way it will be.
It is completely part of God's nature and character to come to the end of Himself and to withhold mercy at the appropriate time. Punishment is His promise to unbelievers. He will not relent.
We are spiritual beings, and our spirits are not going to be snuffed out or annihilated. As Satan and his angels will anguish forever, so will his followers.
It is completely part of God's nature and character to come to the end of Himself and to withhold mercy at the appropriate time. Punishment is His promise to unbelievers. He will not relent.
We are spiritual beings, and our spirits are not going to be snuffed out or annihilated. As Satan and his angels will anguish forever, so will his followers.
Bible Verses?
The entire bible and all of God's mentions of final condemnation never once teaches us that people will be annihilated. More than once it is said that the condemned will suffer eternally.
Just because it shocks your human senses doesn't mean you can create your own ideas to override the truth.
You need to stop and get a concordance and read every passage that talks about hell and judgment.
Do you think that I just make these ideas up? Do you think that this is my own theology? Belive it or not, this is not my own theology, and I am not shocked about eternal torture, except that my God, my loving, loving, God who shows no favoritism, could ever do that to someone that He loves so much.
Maybe you need to read the passages about hell and realize that the Bible always talks about DEATH to the wicked, not that they would live forever in some dungeon to be burned by some fire that will never destroy them. The Bible always talks about DEATH when regarding the wicked. In fact, I have never seen a Bible verse that talks about continual torture to the wicked as opposed to death, because THOSE TWO THINGS ARE CONTRADICTORY.
What do think death means? Yes, the Bible does not say the word, "annihilation", but it does say death, and you cannot be dead and burning in hell forever at the same time.
God WILL condemn all who are unrighteous. That is His promise. He lives up to His promises, despite how your humanity feels.
One of the most horrific aspects to Judgment Day is the fact that God does love those He MUST condemn. His mercy is no longer on offer at that point. It will be a whole new era.
When God speaks about death of the wicked, He is referring to both their physical demise and to the second death that only the wicked will undergo.
Revelation 14:9-11 gives us a clear picture of what the unrighteous will experience:
Then a third angel followed them, shouting, “Anyone who worships the beast and his statue or who accepts his mark on the forehead or on the hand 10 must drink the wine of God’s anger. It has been poured full strength into God’s cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”
Last edited:
Juk we live in a season of Grace. This is the mercy of God. When it isd all over and He calls it done and takes us home then its over. So what does thgis mean ? It means we need to get the Love of God to those who are lost for the day will come when mercy for the people on earth will be no more. Niether God nor Jesus sends any one to hell. We make that choice for our selves brother. We can except God and His way through Christ Jesus or we can turn our backs on Him now and when Judgement day comes............well for those who turned their back to God will hear depart from me I never knew you.
Brother no disrespect mean but you might want to research and write another journal entry labeled correction........
Blessings
Jim
My two cents...
God created the universe out of nothing. He created man out of the things he made when the universe was created. God sometimes takes something apart and destroys it by taking it to pieces, but He never to my knowledge un-creates.
The spirit of man is God's breath (see Genesis 2:7). By virtue of the very breath from the eternal God, our souls are unending, even those that never give themselves to Him. They will be cast to where they have no perception of God. They will still have needs, but none of them will be met. Like Hungry but nothing to eat, Thirsty but nothing to drink, suffocating but nothing to breathe, weary but unable to faint or sleep.
God created the universe out of nothing. He created man out of the things he made when the universe was created. God sometimes takes something apart and destroys it by taking it to pieces, but He never to my knowledge un-creates.
The spirit of man is God's breath (see Genesis 2:7). By virtue of the very breath from the eternal God, our souls are unending, even those that never give themselves to Him. They will be cast to where they have no perception of God. They will still have needs, but none of them will be met. Like Hungry but nothing to eat, Thirsty but nothing to drink, suffocating but nothing to breathe, weary but unable to faint or sleep.
There are things that God cannot do. They all come down to He cannot violate His own nature. He is a loving God. He is also a righteous God, His love cannot cause him to ignore unrighteousness. His answer to that dilemma is the cross, but we each must accept that answer to the 'problem'.
Many well respected Christians believe in annihilation Juk.
You correctly said God is love. Add the facts that 1. there is no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5 (=incapable of torture), 2. He tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44 (if He doesn't love His...He is a hypocrite...God is not a hypocrite), 3. scripture is full of examples where He respected the requests of His children (who says we can't take those in hell water? Moses asked Him in Exo 32 to spare the Jews serving the golden calf and He did, initially) and 4. that God describes things from His vantage point and we can all be forgiven for expecting the absolute best of our enemies.
I would just argue that eternal torment is better then annihilation. Torment is not torture. Plus... I just can't reconcile free will with annihilation
. If God does not give us true free will He is evil. God is not evil 1 John 1:5.The only thing we need to agree on is that there is a separation coming and that will not be nice for those that do not make it. Matt 18:9 makes a crystal clear point. Beyond this, we need to all just accept each others beliefs on the future.
Last edited:
A definition of torment is torture... Torment is extreme physical or mental pain. Why can you not reconcile free will with annihilation?Many well respected Christians believe in annihilation Juk.
You correctly said God is love. Add the facts that 1. there is no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5 (=incapable of torture), 2. He tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44 (if He doesn't love His...He is a hypocrite...God is not a hypocrite), 3. scripture is full of examples where He respected the requests of His children (who says we can't take those in hell water? Moses asked Him in Exo 32 to spare the Jews serving the golden calf and He did, initially) and 4. that God describes things from His vantage point and we can all be forgiven for expecting the absolute best of our enemies.
I would just argue that eternal torment is better then annihilation. Torment is not torture. Plus... I just can't reconcile free will with annihilation
The only thing we need to agree on is that there is a separation coming and that will not be nice for those that do not make it. Matt 18:9 makes a crystal clear point. Beyond this, we need to all just accept each others beliefs on the future.
I understand, but where in the Bible does it mention eternal torture? It always speaks of death to the wicked, and being tortured, even though it hurts, is not death.
Reading that post, I now understand that I was not clear on one thing. I did not mention that I do believe that the wicked will experience punishment, namely the Lake of Fire. I did not mention that before. I guess you thought that I meant that I believe that God will just snap and they're gone. I do believe that the punishments in the Bible will happen (of course) but I do not believe that they will go on forever.
1. Torment = Someone crying with regret for their actions and decisions. Grasping what they have forfeited for eternity.
Torture = Torment plus brazen bull / impalement / crucifixion / Judas cradle / iron maiden / thumbscrew / burning in fire.
2. Imagine a girl that you don't like gave you an ultimatum 'if you don't marry me I will annihilate you'. Would you say you had free will to marry whom you wish?
Last edited:
In the Merriam Webster dictionary torment means torture. And about your second point, eternal torment works the same way.
Yeah, I just looked up some more articles and it has convinced me of eternal torture as opposed to complete annihilation. But now I cannot serve God out of love. Now I am a Christian so I can avoid this hell. It is out of fear for me now.
Fearing God is what we should do, but we aren't to fear him for the punishment so much as we fear offending Him.
We all fear the concept of hell, and it's a real concept, and of course we want nothing to do with it. We want to avoid it. But the concept of hell is based on God's justice. It exists because God is perfect and just.
You are right to serve God, but when doing so, always consider who God is and why you serve Him. If you only serve Him to avoid punishment, then you aren't fulfilling your service. Serving Him, ultimately, means to love Him -- and vice versa. Your ability to avoid Hell is because of God, and isn't that a reason to love Him?
If you love God, ask yourself why you love Him...ask the question who and what is God and what is it about Him that we genuinely love -- even if it's regardless of heaven and hell for the moment...
Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Matthew25:45 (NKJV)
46And these will go away into everlasting punishment
Mark 9:47-48 (NKJV)
47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48where Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’
Luke 16:19-24 (NKJV)
23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
Matthew 10:28 (NIV)
28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NKJV)
11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Luke 12:42-47 (NIV)
42The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.
- Status