What is the "Mystery"?

Abdicate said:
After salvation we begin our surrender to the Holy Spirit, to walk the exact same steps Jesus did through the obedience of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the will of God, to be more than overcomes, not just overcomes. Jesus did this as man and we are expected to follow suit. The race is simply a metaphor to execute self discipline to the will of God and to live in faith and do not just hear the word of God.
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I would suggest to you that what you have stated is but the NORM of a christian life .
But tell me what is MORE than a conqueror?
When Jesus said" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" For years the p[rojection of it was that the gates of hell are as it were attacking the church but will not prevail against her .
This is impossible.
For the gates spoken of are as of the gates of a walled city and being the weakest part of the wall and the cities defenses the gates are the most heavily defended .
Gates do not attack anybody.
They are the entrance of the city .
it is not the church that should be on its back foot. But the very gates of hell that should be having the problems and which will not prevail against the church.
What that all means I do not fully understand yet.
But it has much to do with "more than conquerors"
The world is very happy if we/ the church stay in our small corners and live quiet and happy lives.
But I dont see that in scripture .
The reformation turned the world upside down.
Today the world is in the church and the church in the world .
I fear that the church not only has reduced the Gospel to its very barest minimum but has also reduced the Word of God to its own experience rather than lift up the Word of God and raise our experience to what it says .

in Christ
gerald
 
Abdicate said:
After salvation we begin our surrender to the Holy Spirit, to walk the exact same steps Jesus did through the obedience of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the will of God, to be more than overcomes, not just overcomes. Jesus did this as man and we are expected to follow suit. The race is simply a metaphor to execute self discipline to the will of God and to live in faith and do not just hear the word of God.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!!
 
geralduk said:
I would suggest to you that what you have stated is but the NORM of a christian life .
But tell me what is MORE than a conqueror?
When Jesus said" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" For years the p[rojection of it was that the gates of hell are as it were attacking the church but will not prevail against her .
This is impossible.
For the gates spoken of are as of the gates of a walled city and being the weakest part of the wall and the cities defenses the gates are the most heavily defended .
Gates do not attack anybody.
They are the entrance of the city .
it is not the church that should be on its back foot. But the very gates of hell that should be having the problems and which will not prevail against the church.
What that all means I do not fully understand yet.
But it has much to do with "more than conquerors"
The world is very happy if we/ the church stay in our small corners and live quiet and happy lives.
But I dont see that in scripture .
The reformation turned the world upside down.
Today the world is in the church and the church in the world .
I fear that the church not only has reduced the Gospel to its very barest minimum but has also reduced the Word of God to its own experience rather than lift up the Word of God and raise our experience to what it says .

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...

gerald......Jesus Christ is the "Conquerer"!
 
Euphemia said:
The race spoken of by Paul is to accept the high calling of Christ, living out our faith before men, to reflect the love of God and to tell the unbelieving world of the wonderful gift of grace---salvation, that God has provided for them, and to live out our salvation with excellence and endurance, until we take our final breath.
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Agreed! Paul used the example of people in athletic contests to the process of living life for Christ.

You are very correct IMO that we must endure no matter what.
 
Major said:
gerald......Jesus Christ is the "Conquerer"!
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Actually it says WE are more than conquerers THROUGH Him that loved us and in a related verse they that know their God will do exploits , and in another " coming out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners..... leaning on her beloved"
and Ill ask again what is "more" than a conquerer? I draw your attention to Hebrews .and that list of the heroes of faith .

In Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
I would agree.
Then the question is what race cane be won to win Christ?

In Christ
gerald
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Hebrews 12:1........
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weith and the sin that doth do easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us".

The “race,” then, is the Christian life. It’s a marathon, not a sprint, and we are called to stay the course and remain faithful to the end. Paul used this same imagery near the end of his life when in 2 Tim. 4:7 he said..........
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

This tells us that the one sin above all the others that effets us in life must be put off so that we can RUN/LIVE OUR LIVES free from the bondage of that sin.
 
geralduk said:
Actually it says WE are more than conquerers THROUGH Him that loved us and in a related verse they that know their God will do exploits , and in another " coming out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners..... leaning on her beloved"
and Ill ask again what is "more" than a conquerer? I draw your attention to Hebrews .and that list of the heroes of faith .

In Christ
gerald
Click to expand...

The race is “set before us”; we did not select the course, for it is God who established it. This race we run for Christ. We stay the course in spite of trials and persecutions as told to us in Hebrews 12:4–11.

As we run, we must “fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith” as seen in Hebrews 12:2. Because He perfectly finished His race, He is the focus of our lives and The Conquerer of sin death and the grave.

Because of what HE did, we can look away from all distractions and sin because He is already at the finish line which is seen in Lamentations 3:25; Matthew 6:33; Romans 2:7.
 
Major said:
Hebrews 12:1........
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weith and the sin that doth do easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us".

The “race,” then, is the Christian life. It’s a marathon, not a sprint, and we are called to stay the course and remain faithful to the end. Paul used this same imagery near the end of his life when in 2 Tim. 4:7 he said..........
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

This tells us that the one sin above all the others that effets us in life must be put off so that we can RUN/LIVE OUR LIVES free from the bondage of that sin.
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Not disputed .
But to win the prize which some say we already have then there is something amiss.
For while this is a marathon . if there is a prize to be won by winning it yet Christ IN us the hope of glory. Then thne prize is something else.
and its something that we in part earn(it is NOT our salvation)

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
Not disputed .
But to win the prize which some say we already have then there is something amiss.
For while this is a marathon . if there is a prize to be won by winning it yet Christ IN us the hope of glory. Then thne prize is something else.
and its something that we in part earn(it is NOT our salvation)

in Christ
gerald
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No sir. I have to disagree completely with you.

While there are REWARDS we can earn, the prize of salvation is not one of them. We can earn those rewards only after we come to Christ as our Saviour.

Good works will not get us into heaven, as the Bible specifically tells us that we can only be saved by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ. THEN and only then can we win any rewards for what we do for Christ.

2 Corth. 5:10...........
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things DONE IN THE BODY, according to what He has done, whether good or bad.”

1 Corth. 3:8...........
".............and each one will receive His own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR.”

The Bible, IMO is telling us that the rewards given to us by God will be totally dependent on what we accomplish for Him while living down here on this earth AFTER we have been saved through by GRACE through faith.

Ephesians 2:8..........
"For we are saved by crace through faith and NOT OF OURSELVES least we should boast".

My interpretation on this verse is that the greater and better our labor and work is for the Lord in this life, the greater our rewards will be in heaven. I believe there will be a direct correlation between the two – greater service will be leading to greater rewards.

Do you have a Bible verse that would substantiate your opinion as truth?
 
Major said:
No sir. I have to disagree completely with you.

While there are REWARDS we can earn, the prize of salvation is not one of them. We can earn those rewards only after we come to Christ as our Saviour.

Good works will not get us into heaven, as the Bible specifically tells us that we can only be saved by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ. THEN and only then can we win any rewards for what we do for Christ.

2 Corth. 5:10...........
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things DONE IN THE BODY, according to what He has done, whether good or bad.”

1 Corth. 3:8...........
".............and each one will receive His own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR.”

The Bible, IMO is telling us that the rewards given to us by God will be totally dependent on what we accomplish for Him while living down here on this earth AFTER we have been saved through by GRACE through faith.

Ephesians 2:8..........
"For we are saved by crace through faith and NOT OF OURSELVES least we should boast".

My interpretation on this verse is that the greater and better our labor and work is for the Lord in this life, the greater our rewards will be in heaven. I believe there will be a direct correlation between the two – greater service will be leading to greater rewards.

Do you have a Bible verse that would substantiate your opinion as truth?
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For the record.
I am NOT talking about our'salavtion' That is; to be BORNagain. To be begotten again unto a lively hope.
Im talking about rewards for righteous works than an unrighteous man cannot do .
and as you point out have rewards .
Im saying that to be in the Bride of Christ is NOT automatic . it is what we are called to that to be BORN again qualifies us to run the race it does not win us the prize.
IM saying that as the first Adam had a bride out fo the midst of his body so too the last Adam will come form the midst of his body also .

Not all who came out of Egypt entered into the promise . because they believed the wrong message . as much as they did not believe God and the true message .
That as Lot walked by sight yet still was counted righteous . So the vast majority who came out of Egypt walked by sight also .
As in the days of Lot so shall it be at the coming of the son of man .
Abraham was in the days of Lot he too was counted righteous but walked by faith .
and while Lot was blind to the hour he was living in Abraham was told what "God was about to do"
and while Abraham lost nothing . Lot lost all "as through fire" save for the saving of his soul.
That Abraham sought a bride for the Son of promise and commanded his servant not to seek her in the world but from "among his bretheren"
That while there were 11 or 12 disciples . Three saw and did things the others did not and who the Lord took "a little further"
A body out of a body , a double selection.
To be BORNagain is if you will but the 'S' of our Salvation it is the getting out of Egypt and it took them only 40 DAYS to get to the promised land .Not 40 YEARS .
We ;the church have justified our unbelief and our wandering in the wilderness for 40 years as the NORM of christian life .
Preaching but the MILK of the Word of God and counting it as the meat .
So im not sure where you think I have said we earn our salvation when I have often said we do not.
The 5 foolish virgins were barred from the " MARRIAGE" by the words "I know ye not" They were unrecognisable as the Bride . Nor were they ready come to that .
The wicked on the day of that judgment will be barred from the KINGDOM with the words "I NEVER knew you "
Two very different judgments .
ALL men will be judged .
But the saved will not be judged unto condemnation but as to WORKS whether they be wood stubble or lasting things .
The sinner and the Godless will be judged unto condemnation.

We are saved . and "Little children your sins are forgiven and ye know the father "
Young men are saved "the word of God dwelleth in you richly and ye have overcome the wicked one"
I would say that the church in general does not know God "who is in the beginning "
They have heard of him but do not know Him .
How can they when many do not believe his word choosing rather to believe the world as to the creation of God .
He who is from the beginning is the Creator . You cannot know the creator if you do not believe His word.
But surely soemone may say. If you" know the father " you know Him who is from the beginning?
Clearly by the scriptures no.
For little children do indeed know their father and that he loves them and provides for them .They also know he comes and goes .
But they do not know his acts or work.
That takes a level of maturity .of growth and development .
I know of no new BORNchildren who get married .
Though I have heard they can be betrothed.
The Lord IS our Salvation as he is our peace and our joy.
He is our Savior for ever .Thank God .
Blessed be the Lamb who has washed us in His own blood is it not said in heaven by the great multitude? BEFORE the throne?
What then of those AROUND the throne? They too .
What of those under the altar? They too .
What about the Bride ? She too .
what about the "friends of the bridegroom"? who are n ot the bride . They too .
if there are freinds of the groom are there then friends of the Bride? perhaps; then they too are saved.
If we suffer with Him then we will reign with him says the scriptures . It follows then that if we do not we will not .
Where are we called to suffer? "without the camp" Even as Moses and Jesus did .
What camp then is that?

Forgive me if I labour on the point. Im simply trying to lay to rest the idea I am talking about our 'salvation' To be BORN again.Redeemed sanctified HIS TWICE OVER , By creation and redemption.A new creation.
if we are a new creation then we are in some respects likened unto the first or old one.
God has not changed .He is the same yesterday today and forever.
When a person is truly BORNagain he does but enter that eternal will which was Gods before the foundation of the world and which in a fore shadow was laid out for the first Adam.
"For the first adam was the foreshadow of Him who was to come "

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
For the record.
I am NOT talking about our'salavtion' That is; to be BORNagain. To be begotten again unto a lively hope.
Im talking about rewards for righteous works than an unrighteous man cannot do .
and as you point out have rewards .
Im saying that to be in the Bride of Christ is NOT automatic . it is what we are called to that to be BORN again qualifies us to run the race it does not win us the prize.
IM saying that as the first Adam had a bride out fo the midst of his body so too the last Adam will come form the midst of his body also .

Not all who came out of Egypt entered into the promise . because they believed the wrong message . as much as they did not believe God and the true message .
That as Lot walked by sight yet still was counted righteous . So the vast majority who came out of Egypt walked by sight also .
As in the days of Lot so shall it be at the coming of the son of man .
Abraham was in the days of Lot he too was counted righteous but walked by faith .
and while Lot was blind to the hour he was living in Abraham was told what "God was about to do"
and while Abraham lost nothing . Lot lost all "as through fire" save for the saving of his soul.
That Abraham sought a bride for the Son of promise and commanded his servant not to seek her in the world but from "among his bretheren"
That while there were 11 or 12 disciples . Three saw and did things the others did not and who the Lord took "a little further"
A body out of a body , a double selection.
To be BORNagain is if you will but the 'S' of our Salvation it is the getting out of Egypt and it took them only 40 DAYS to get to the promised land .Not 40 YEARS .
We ;the church have justified our unbelief and our wandering in the wilderness for 40 years as the NORM of christian life .
Preaching but the MILK of the Word of God and counting it as the meat .
So im not sure where you think I have said we earn our salvation when I have often said we do not.
The 5 foolish virgins were barred from the " MARRIAGE" by the words "I know ye not" They were unrecognisable as the Bride . Nor were they ready come to that .
The wicked on the day of that judgment will be barred from the KINGDOM with the words "I NEVER knew you "
Two very different judgments .
ALL men will be judged .
But the saved will not be judged unto condemnation but as to WORKS whether they be wood stubble or lasting things .
The sinner and the Godless will be judged unto condemnation.

We are saved . and "Little children your sins are forgiven and ye know the father "
Young men are saved "the word of God dwelleth in you richly and ye have overcome the wicked one"
I would say that the church in general does not know God "who is in the beginning "
They have heard of him but do not know Him .
How can they when many do not believe his word choosing rather to believe the world as to the creation of God .
He who is from the beginning is the Creator . You cannot know the creator if you do not believe His word.
But surely soemone may say. If you" know the father " you know Him who is from the beginning?
Clearly by the scriptures no.
For little children do indeed know their father and that he loves them and provides for them .They also know he comes and goes .
But they do not know his acts or work.
That takes a level of maturity .of growth and development .
I know of no new BORNchildren who get married .
Though I have heard they can be betrothed.
The Lord IS our Salvation as he is our peace and our joy.
He is our Savior for ever .Thank God .
Blessed be the Lamb who has washed us in His own blood is it not said in heaven by the great multitude? BEFORE the throne?
What then of those AROUND the throne? They too .
What of those under the altar? They too .
What about the Bride ? She too .
what about the "friends of the bridegroom"? who are n ot the bride . They too .
if there are freinds of the groom are there then friends of the Bride? perhaps; then they too are saved.
If we suffer with Him then we will reign with him says the scriptures . It follows then that if we do not we will not .
Where are we called to suffer? "without the camp" Even as Moses and Jesus did .
What camp then is that?

Forgive me if I labour on the point. Im simply trying to lay to rest the idea I am talking about our 'salvation' To be BORN again.Redeemed sanctified HIS TWICE OVER , By creation and redemption.A new creation.
if we are a new creation then we are in some respects likened unto the first or old one.
God has not changed .He is the same yesterday today and forever.
When a person is truly BORNagain he does but enter that eternal will which was Gods before the foundation of the world and which in a fore shadow was laid out for the first Adam.
"For the first adam was the foreshadow of Him who was to come "

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...
You said........
"IM saying that as the first Adam had a bride out fo the midst of his body so too the last Adam will come form the midst of his body also ."

As with many of the things you post Gerald.......I have no clue what you are talking about.

You gave a really long answer but you could have stopped with................
"I am NOT talking about our'salavtion' That is; to be BORNagain. To be begotten again unto a lively hope.
Im talking about rewards for righteous works than an unrighteous man cannot do .
and as you point out have rewards".....................and I would have gotten it.

Thanks for the all the rest but really, it was not needed.
 
geralduk said:
I would suggest to you that what you have stated is but the NORM of a christian life .
But tell me what is MORE than a conqueror?
When Jesus said" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" For years the p[rojection of it was that the gates of hell are as it were attacking the church but will not prevail against her .
This is impossible.
For the gates spoken of are as of the gates of a walled city and being the weakest part of the wall and the cities defenses the gates are the most heavily defended .
Gates do not attack anybody.
They are the entrance of the city .
it is not the church that should be on its back foot. But the very gates of hell that should be having the problems and which will not prevail against the church.
What that all means I do not fully understand yet.
But it has much to do with "more than conquerors"
The world is very happy if we/ the church stay in our small corners and live quiet and happy lives.
But I dont see that in scripture .
The reformation turned the world upside down.
Today the world is in the church and the church in the world .
I fear that the church not only has reduced the Gospel to its very barest minimum but has also reduced the Word of God to its own experience rather than lift up the Word of God and raise our experience to what it says .

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...
Isn't that's pretty much what I said.
 
geralduk said:
I would suggest to you that what you have stated is but the NORM of a christian life .
But tell me what is MORE than a conqueror?
When Jesus said" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" For years the p[rojection of it was that the gates of hell are as it were attacking the church but will not prevail against her .
This is impossible.
For the gates spoken of are as of the gates of a walled city and being the weakest part of the wall and the cities defenses the gates are the most heavily defended .
Gates do not attack anybody.
They are the entrance of the city .
it is not the church that should be on its back foot. But the very gates of hell that should be having the problems and which will not prevail against the church.
What that all means I do not fully understand yet.
But it has much to do with "more than conquerors"
The world is very happy if we/ the church stay in our small corners and live quiet and happy lives.
But I dont see that in scripture .
The reformation turned the world upside down.
Today the world is in the church and the church in the world .
I fear that the church not only has reduced the Gospel to its very barest minimum but has also reduced the Word of God to its own experience rather than lift up the Word of God and raise our experience to what it says .

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...

To be more than a conqueror is to not only take the ground the enemy has stolen, but to camp on it, to dwell there and to prosper in doing so.
 
On "more than conquerors":
Romans 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
"Yet in all these things....." refers to "tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword". These are all threats to our physical bodies, so to be more than conquerors, we not only survive these challenges, but we make these threats impotent in knowing we are actually blessed to have these trials in our life.
Matt 5:
10"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Peter 4:
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
More than a conqueror.
 
geralduk said: ↑
The first Adam had a bride and she came form the midst of his body .
The last Adam has a bride and she too will come from the midst of his body .
With respect @geralduk,

This is an application that the Word of God does not make.
In Christ Jesus
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geralduk said:
What part are you applying that to?
That the first Adam had a bride and so too the last one has?
If the Lord is called the "second and last Adam"
he then is likened unto the first .
Indeed is it not written that the first Adam was but a "foreshadow of Him who was to come"?
What then is a foreshadow if not that which gives a rough outline or shadow of that which it foretells of?
Eve came out of the midst of the body of the first Adam.
Then to say that the Bride of Christ comes out of the midst of His body,is neither misapplying the Word of God or abusing or "twisting the scriptures "
if on the other hand you was speaking of another part let me know and I will if I can expand on it .
if on the other hand you suggest that nothing I said has any true application of scripture in the matter, you would have to indicate in some manner why .
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Hello @geralduk,

In the central portion of Romans (5:12-8:39) the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, speaks of Adam as the first man, and Christ as the second man in Romans 5:12-21; and in 1 Cor. 15:20-22; 35-49; 1 Tim. 2:13:12-14. The Holy Spirit has used the type of Adam in a specific manner, to go beyond what is written can only lead to error. There is nothing said to indicate that the figure should be extended further to encompass any other aspect of Adam's life.

The Bible does not use the term, 'Bride of Christ', Gerald.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Complete said:
.
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Bride of the Lamb is...

*[[Rev 21:9]] KJV* And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Lamb= Jesus= Christ

But yes the term is not explicitly mentioned just like "second coming" isn't mentioned but is said in other ways.
 
Abdicate said:
Bride of the Lamb is...

*[[Rev 21:9]] KJV* And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Lamb= Jesus= Christ

But yes the term is not explicitly mentioned just like "second coming" isn't mentioned but is said in other ways.
Click to expand...

Amen!.........Just as the Rapture and Trinity........."Implied Truth"!!!
 
Abdicate said:
Bride of the Lamb is...

*[[Rev 21:9]] KJV* And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Lamb= Jesus= Christ

But yes the term is not explicitly mentioned just like "second coming" isn't mentioned but is said in other ways.
Click to expand...

Hello @Abdicate,

On the contrary, I believe that every word of Scripture has it's relevancy, and should not be taken lightly.
God means what He says, and says just exactly what He means.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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