See......I am glad you can laugh too!
Pastor doesn't want members praying or reading bible together
- Thread starter pavilion103
- Start date
See......I am glad you can laugh too!
Before I comment on this, how does this analysis work out practically in a Christian's life?
Excellent question!
If Jesus was "scripture" then he would not have said, "these very scriptures testify about me" to "I am the scripture?" Like I said before, there is a huge difference between scriptures referring to or about Jesus Christ to Jesus Christ actually being scripture.
There is no doubt that all scripture is God breathed, and is true. The Word of God, and scripture are tied together, and it is the Word of God that speaks right now to a persons heart that reveals what God "has" said in the past through scripture. Scripture once "fulfilled" will pass away, but the Word of God will never pass away. No time did Jesus ever refer to the scriptures as the "Word of God". He referred to them as the "law, and the prophets" which Jesus also said that the law which was given by Moses in the form of scripture will pass away, but the Word of God will never pass way.
The Scriptures do not "contain" the Word of God, they are the Word of God!
How many times do we read when someone would ask Jesus a question He would respond by first saying “Have Ye Not Read” which by saying this that the answer could be found in reading the word of God. (Mark 12:10)….. Matthew 21:16).
It is extremely important in practice for a Christian, as the natural or carnal man can never receive the things of God. They are foolishness to him, neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned. Taking scripture alone can never reveal it's truth, for it was not design by for that purpose. We speak the Wisdom of God in a "mystery" even the hidden Wisdom in which God ordained for our Glory. If you take the scripture them self's alone, all you can do is logically analyze, and reason them out, and when you do that, you wind up with a Gospel that is "devoid" of power, because the mind comes to the conclusion that the all gifts of the Spirit and power that God gave to man is passed away.
The scriptures were never designed by God for man to figure out on his own, it must be revealed by God himself. Jesus gives us a perfect example how this works.
Luke 24:25.. And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luke 24:26.. Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?"
Luke 24:27.. And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus Christ is the "Word of God". Only the Word of God can "interpret" scriptures that have been written down that testify about Jesus as Jesus said himself.
Joh 5:39.. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
All scripture testifies "about" Jesus Christ, but this can not be known except by the Word of God who happens to be Jesus Christ. The Word of God which we hear with our hearts, and not read with our eyes is that which interprets "scripture", not our carnal natural mind. What did Jesus (The Word of God) do to these two men on the road to Emmaus? He (The Word of God) interpreted all the scriptures starting from Moses to all the prophets!!!
I do a lot of laughing around here!
Again, I see what you're saying here, and I can most definitely 'get on board' with any appeal for complete dependence on divine Persons and a thirst for divine speaking, for God's word for today. We can't do without these things. We live by the manna, the daily bread. What I would be very careful to guard, however, is the divine inspiration of scripture, and the fact that by virtue of it being of divine inspiration, it is God's word. I would hold it as such, as a divine communication. The fact that it has to be opened up to me by the Spirit of God doesn't make the text in any way less of a divine communication.
Brother, if someone had spoken these things me a couple days ago I would thought they were "crazy", and did no know what they were talking about. I am very very committed to what the scriptures says, and no one could ever get me to change my mind except for God himself. I have always believed for almost 40 years that the Bible was the Word of God, or contained the Word of God. This is a very big change for me, and I do not take it lightly. If it was not for the Word of God coming to me and saying that scripture is not the Word of God in its living active state, and that the "scriptures" prove that I would in no way believe it.
I knew I would get a lot of feed back if I mentioned this on the forum, and those who know me would probably think I have gone over a cliff.
That is OK with me and I do not expect every one to grasp this as it is not easy to understand with our minds. There has only been one other time in my Christian walk were I questioned God in what he has spoken to me, but he was merciful to me in my disbelief as he has continually confirmed his Word to me through scriptures, which I am so grateful for.
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Which is exactly why the Scriptures are THE Word of God in contrast to them "containing" the Word of God which Curtis is stressing.
Brother, if someone had spoken these things me a couple days ago I would thought they were "crazy", and did no know what they were talking about. I am very very committed to what the scriptures says, and no one could ever get me to change my mind except for God himself. I have always believed for almost 40 years that the Bible was the Word of God, or contained the Word of God. This is a very big change for me, and I do not take it lightly. If it was not for the Word of God coming to me and saying that scripture is not the Word of God in its living active state, and that the "scriptures" prove that I would in no way believe it.
I knew I would get a lot of feed back if I mentioned this on the forum, and those who know me would probably think I have gone over a cliff.
Here's the rope**************************************grab it and I will pull up from that cliff!!!!
@CCW95A Hello Curtis,
In what you have been saying here there is a lot of truth found in it and then there is a path of silliness bordering legalism and some added mans thinking.
We have books called the bible - which contains the written word of God
This book is filled with letters and they are just as anointed today as the day they were written. Yes Jesus spoke about scriptures - Scriptures being what the prophets of old wrote down that God spoke - That is still the word of God.
Jesus came speaking and teaching truth of Gods word or Gods ways - God also had "Anointed Men" to record what He (God) wanted said or another words His Word or Ways. God did this so every person would have His word written before them. He did this so there would be no excuse for any person to not know Gods word or ways.
You insist that it is only Gods word when God or the Spirit gives us understanding of what we read in the scriptures.........You are confusing - Spiritual understanding or revelation knowledge or a deeper understanding of Gods written word or Gods way of doing things with Gods word. Another words you are proposing that it is Not Gods word until God speaks a deeper understanding of what is written. Brother that is insigth or knowledge and that is How God Put Forth His word To Work.
You are correct that Gods word is hidden from the natural man or those who are not born again and filled with His spirit. To be more Precise - it is the deeper things of Gods word that is hidden and not His entire word.
Once God speaks it and man records it - it stays Gods word. Nothing changes this.
Now we call His written word the Bible - It is a book holding scriptures or the written words of God. Calling a group of words scripture does not constatute that they are no longer Gods words but scriptures unless God speaks for it is the word that gives us wisdom of the word.
Again you are barking up a legalistic tree here.
God Bless
Jim
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Because what you have written does not point that out. And i felt as if it needed to be said. Besides in my opinion whether it is "Word" the person or "Word" what is being said they both should be capitalized to show the respect that is due them. There should be no difference.
God Bless you
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No he's not. He is simply pointing out that without the work of Holy Spirit on us and in us, the powerful, living scriptures are mere words on a page. I know you agree with that.
Sorry, but I fail to see that. It is commonly accepted that when we capitalize "Word", we are referring to Jesus Christ, the Word. Otherwise, we are talking about the scriptures.
Then Curtis should say that but he is not saying that. If this is simply what he means then all this scripture and word stuff should be dropped. It is added confusion.........
He is simply bringing attention to the difference between the Word, Jesus and the word, the scriptures, which, without Holy Spirit to enliven it to our hearts and minds as truth and rhema from God Himself, then it is just text.
Brother, what happened when the devil quoted scripture to Jesus in his temptation? (Luke 4:10-11) The devil quoted scripture word for word, but it did not do him any good as he had no revelation to its meaning, and that is what the problem is as it takes the Word of God to interpret scripture.
Exactly!! Only the Word of God can interpret scripture.
Another point is Jesus said ALL "scripture" testifies" of himself.
John 5:39.. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
All scriptures testify to who Jesus is. Jesus said he could not "testify" of himself for that would not be true.
John 5:31.. "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
The Word of God can not testfy of it's self, but scripture can. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, which means God moved upon a person to write things that would testify about his Son.
The one who testifies (scripture), is not identical to the one of whom it testifies about. All scripture points to the one who is eternal and is beyond what one book could ever possibly disclose.
Well said!