Revelation

[Major]

REVELATION 8:6-7........
"Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them.
The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up."

Now.....please allow me a word of caution! There has been almost 30 K views of this thread. That means a lot of people are reading the posted material. PLEASE.........lets not go chasing rabbits down holes!!! The people who have PM'D me are satisfied with the "FOCUSED" method I am using as it allows them to do the study, look up the Scriptures with CONTEXT and understand what is happening.
Lets keep our "PET" ideas and thoughts to our selves until we come to those areas in the Revelation study and we can discuss them then!

OK........Verses 6 & 7. This is the 1st TRUMPET Judgment!

It is very important at this point to consider and understand Revelation 17:17 where we read..........
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

That means that God is in control! He can do all these things and HE can also allow men to do these things as well.

If you have played in any organized sports, or have been in the military or taught any kind of class, you know that preparation is always in order before we do God's will. Preperation = SUCCESS!!!

Moses' preparation to lead the people of Israel through the Negev involved forty years of shepherding herds in that land.
Joshua prepared to lead the Hebrews into the Promised Land, and was told to meditate upon and obey God's Word (Joshua 1:1–9).
Jesus prepared for His work of redemption by praying (Matthew 26:30–46).
The disciples prepared for proclaiming the gospel to the end of the earth (Acts 1:8) by praying (Acts 1:12–14).
The apostle Paul prepared for the task of preaching the gospel by spending three years in the Arabian Desert (Galatians 1:11–24).
When the first angel blew his trumpet, hail and fire, mixed with blood, followed. These elements were thrown down to the earth. As a result, a third of the land, a third of the trees, and a third of the grass was burned up.

Some interpreters speculate that "earth" refers to the land of Israel as the object of God's judgment.

Along those lines, they interpret "trees" to mean Israel's apostate leaders and "grass" to mean Israel as a spiritual weak nation.

They base these interpretations on Isaiah 2:13, which compares proud leaders to cedars and oaks, and on Isaiah 40:6–7 that compares all flesh to grass that withers.

However, these horrific results also resemble what happened literally to Egypt under the seventh plague. Exodus 9:18–26 describes thunder, fire, and hail raining down on Egypt. The hail struck down every plant and broke every tree. So, there is good reason to interpret what happens in the first trumpet judgment as literal.

Since it is God's purpose in the Tribulation to bring God's chosen people, the Jews to Christ, it is then LOGICAL to consider the fact that this conflict or judgment will be centered in the HOLY LAND and that 1/3 here in this Scripture could mean the land of the MIDDEL EAST is what is in view.

Now, could this be from natural sources such as falling stars or earhquakes. YES.
Many scholars in the last several decades have said that this could be the results of WAR. Again, remember Revelation 17:17.

What specific mechanism this judgment takes—perhaps a volcanic catastrophe or meteor strike—or Nuclear War would explain the HOW!. The effects will be horrific. The target seems to be plant life, and possibly crops in particular. This level of destruction would not only cripple world food supplies, it would also disrupt economics and destabilize society. Losing a substantial portion of "grasses" might also restrict food available for livestock, further straining earth's ability to feed hungry people.

In 1982 when Israel invaded Lebanon, they discovered tanks, guns, and ammunition staged in caves all over Lebanon from RUSSIA.It was more that the PLO could ever use. Israel intel thinks that it was placed there for a Russian invasion. Men without machines could very easily be looked over Israel is convinced that they stopped an invasion.

In an interview Monday with Frank Gervasi of Network News, Begin said......
" that as of July 3, the Israeli Army had taken 4,000 tons of ammunition, 144 armored vehicles including tanks, 12,500 pieces of small arms, 515 heavy weapons, 359 sophisticated communications devices and 795 "optical instruments," among them field glasses and range finders as well as Starlight scopes for night firing."
Source........"https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/07/07/begin-describes-soviet-arms-cache"

These weapons alone, Begin said, required a fleet of 10-ton trucks, working day and night for six weeks, to haul them back to Israel.
Does Ezekiel 38-39 ring a bell????????

Again....... Recall Revelation 17:17!

Another very little reported news action was in 1974. In the Yom Kipper War, Israel called then President Nixion and informed him that 1400 Russian tanks were coming across the West bank and they could not stop them. Mr. Nixon told Israel that we (USA) would take care of them. Nixon responded by authorizing the U.S. military to go to DEFCON III, which effectively put our nuclear forces on alert. The Soviets backed down and turned around! WILL THEY DO THAT THE NEXT TIME? DID THEY DO THAT IN GEORGIA OR CRIMIEA OR UKRAINE??????
Source: https://spectator.org/yom-kippur-war-righteous-richard-nixon/

Again.......Rev. 17:17......."God will place into the hearts of men to accomplish His will".

 

[Major]

We can, but we both know the holy spirit testifies of the spirit through all scriptures, just like you had to point back to Matt. 24 in an earlier post, all scripture are tied together via the spirit.

Ron....when I post another Scripture it is to support and validate the one we are discussing.

All I am asking in the most caring way is to not run ahead of the Scriptures in question. I am on Rev. 8: 6 and you are wanting to discuss chapter 13.

 

[Major]

As we see in your post, the bible has to be an overall journey, which takes all verses and ties them together, of course. The first four Trumps are all one event, an incoming Asteroid. As we see the description of fire hurled to earth, its simply the incoming asteroid breaking apart before the impact, thus leaving a trail of fire via trees burning. The Impact comes next, the fallout is 3rd and then the sun and moon goes dark from all the smoke that gets up in the atmosphere/Jet Stream, its one event.

I was called unto Prophecy, preaching 37 years ago, only about 7 years ago did I understand much of Prophecy was passed down Men's Tradition, so, as the holy spirit led me I started all over and did the very simple thing, I asked God to show me His truths and I stopped believing things like the 144,000 are "super preachers" when that is stated nowhere in the bible. Its not there.

God Bless.

You may just be completly right and we can learn from you, but right now I can not agree with your idea that the 1st four Trumpets are all ONE Judgment.

I was NOT called unto prophecy. Everything I am sharing is what I have learned by study and teaching and preaching.

Now, the 1st 4 Trumpet judgments are not ALL ONE EVENT. Now Ron, please notice the words in the Scripture............
Revelation 8:2-5 tells that seven angels are given seven trumpet judgments.

Verse #7....... The first angel blew his trumpet!
Verse #8........ Then the second angel blew his trumpet,
Verse #10.......Then the third angel blew his trumpet,
Verse #12.......Then the fourth angel blew his trumpet,

FOUR angels = FOUR Trumpet judgments!!! They are ONE after another !

1. The 1st Trumpet is 1/3 of the earth is burnt, 1/3 of trees are burnt & 1/3 of grass is burnt.
2. 2nd Trumpet is that 1/3 of ships, and 1/3 of fish and 1/3 of the Sea is blood.
3. The 3rd Trumpet is that 1/3 of all water is undrinkable.
4. The 4th Trumpet is that 1/3 of the Sun, Moon and Stars are darkened.

I was not called unto Prophecy. What I am sharing is what I have studied and learned through Bible study.

You are correct and the Bible does not call the 144 k "Super preachers' AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY ARE!
What I am saying is what the Bible does say in Rev. 7:3 which is.......They are called “the servants of our God”, ones “who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes."

Now........Nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the children of Israel, according to verses 5–8.

Their mission, according to the Scriptures is to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—Rev. 7:9= “a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” —will come to faith in Christ.

Now, whether they witness, or teach, or preach is simply a matter of semantics and actually means nothing!!!!!
What YOU call preaching, others call witnessing and others call it teaching. SAMANTICS my brother and it is nothing to be argueing over.
The only thing that matters is that they bring millions to Jesus Christ.

 

[Dave F.]

I can see how Ron is seeing this as 1 event. Remember comet Shoemaker\Levy and Jupiter, the comet broke apart and got caught in Jupiter's gravitational pull, over the next several weeks pieces of it crashed into Jupiter. In a like manner it could happen to Earth. We see an Angel has filled the censer with coals from the alter and then hurled it to the Earth (asteroid) then we see the trumpet judgements as the asteroid breaks into pieces and these begin to fall to Earth. The 1st pieces burning the Earth, trees, and grass. The next trumpet hits the ocean (tsunami) taking out 1\3 of ships, fish, and causing the water to appear as blood. Then pieces land in the rivers and lakes. Next is a large impact that throws debris into the atmosphere blocking the Sun, Moon and Stars. Sorry to jump ahead, but, you had mentioned the first 4 trumpets so I thought I would add my understanding of what Ron is saying.

 

[Major]

I can see how Ron is seeing this as 1 event. Remember comet Shoemaker\Levy and Jupiter, the comet broke apart and got caught in Jupiter's gravitational pull, over the next several weeks pieces of it crashed into Jupiter. In a like manner it could happen to Earth. We see an Angel has filled the censer with coals from the alter and then hurled it to the Earth (asteroid) then we see the trumpet judgements as the asteroid breaks into pieces and these begin to fall to Earth. The 1st pieces burning the Earth, trees, and grass. The next trumpet hits the ocean (tsunami) taking out 1\3 of ships, fish, and causing the water to appear as blood. Then pieces land in the rivers and lakes. Next is a large impact that throws debris into the atmosphere blocking the Sun, Moon and Stars. Sorry to jump ahead, but, you had mentioned the first 4 trumpets so I thought I would add my understanding of what Ron is saying.

The problem with his thinking Dave, is that the Scriptures DO NOT support it so then it becomes an "opinion".

Again...notice that the angels are listed as 1-2-3-4. If the results are all ONE judgment, then why would the angels be designated with seperated numbers.

The most dangereous thing that we can do in trying to understand God's Prophetic word, is to lose pacience and ADD to what is in front of us with our own understanding.

If we follow Ron's position as some have said, if we go down that rabbit hole, we will eventually see that means that the seals, trumpets and bowls all describe the same period, or that the trumpets and bowls simply double back over all or portions of the seals. But very poor or no arguments are given for such a position.

Especially significant is the fact that those who hold this position never explain the content of the seventh seal, nor do they give an adequate explanation for the content of the seventh trumpet. Certainly Revelation 11:15b-19 does not describe the seventh trumpet, but rather heaven’s response to the sounding of the trumpet because of its significance, i.e., the outpouring of the seven bowls followed by the return of Jesus Christ.

Further, if I may say to you, chapters 12 through 14 do not set forth its content because they introduce key personages and events in another parenthetical section. These chapters again interrupt the chronological movement which is then resumed in chapters 15 and 16 with the announcement of the bowl judgments. Perhaps, it would be good to review the argument for this view, that the seventh SEAL Judgment contains the seven trumpets and the seventh trumpet contains the seven bowls is simply this:.............................

(1) There is no precise explanation of the content of the seventh seal as with the preceding six, instead, the seven trumpet angels are immediately introduced following the announcement of the seventh seal.

(2) When we come to the seventh trumpet we again find no precise definition as with the preceding six. Instead, heaven’s response is seen and heard in anticipation of what the seventh trumpet and its judgments will bring, specifically “… the kingdom of the world becoming the kingdom of our Lord …”.
Revelation 11:18 summarizes the activities and results, though the details of this are given in Revelation 15 and 16 in the bowl judgments.

(3) Chapter 5 gives the story of the seven-sealed book which contains all that is needed to restore God’s kingdom to earth. Here there is no mention of the trumpets or bowls. Why? Because each is ultimately contained in the seventh seal.

This is why each Judgement is SEPERATE, DISTINCT and each one grows worse and more intense as they take place.

IF the Trumpets 1-4 were ALL the same event, there would be absolutly no reason for them to be numbered!

Thanks for imput.

 

[Major]

Of course that is the case brother, but we will be gone very, very soon, so our goal has to be to leave an "Exact Account" of what is going to go down during the 70th week, then all of those who are left on earth, who are desperate, who get on sites like this, can see (if we get it right) that everything we say is coming to pass, and that means they need to repent, even if it means death !! So, we need to get it right brother, I think we all agree on that, Jacob wrestled with God and God loved that about Jacob, we can't just accept things passed down by men, who were not even in the right time period to gain these last days understandings Daniel told us would only come at the very end. You and I are in those last days and we can gain this information. My transformation (warp speed one might say) came one night about 6 or 7 years ago just after my heart attack had me laid up. I asked God Lord, "why is it the Church is so confused that we have 100's of interpretations of who Babylon is, who the Harlot is, who the 144,000 are, what the Beasts stand for, but in your holy word you stated that in the end times all of these things would be revealed Lord, so why is the Church so all over the place and not in unison?" And I got this from the Holy Spirit.

"Ron, you guys already know it all"

I knew instantly what God was telling me to do, stop relying on Men's Traditions and start asking Him simply, "SHOW ME Lord" just as I and other had done with the Gospel when we were first born again. You see, as young Christians we all saw Prophecy as over our heads, so we read books by men, watched them on TV/Youtube etc. so now when God is ready to reveal much, He has roadblocks He has to try and overcome, so I went back to reading and simply asking God to show me, and I never stopped asking until I got an answer and I always get an answer. My point about Jacob wrestled with God makes more sense now right? That is what God wants us to do.

I have found many ideas I thought for 30 years were spot on are just not from God. I see one below via the Rev. 7:9-17 tribulation saints, which do not, nor can come from the 70th week, via scriptures. God wants us to get it right, but He also wants us to stay on the bone like a dog until we get it done. Accepting "Contradictions" is a no no. God never contradicts Himself, ever. Rev. 7:9-17 can only be the Pre Trib Raptured Church, or else there is contradiction.


And I will show how it not only can be but is one event brother. A guy who saw a vision and got the name Apophis from his vision, the same guy who stated the last Pope would retire in office and his friends said you have just ruined your career no Pope has retired in over 500 years, they die in office, so when he spoke about Apophis (Asteroid) I listened. He told what he saw, that's not important per se, but then he said a scientist friend who is not really religious said, all the things which you described can be seen in Rev. 8 but it is what would actually happen via an Asteroid strike. All described in vivid detail, and in the exact and proper order also !!

As the Asteroid comes in it starts breaking apart, so pieces would fall to earth before the impact. Lets say it impacts in the Pacific Ocean just off the California Coastline, it would have dropped sulfuric hot balls (just like in Sodom) and started burning the woods in Canada and the USA et al. along the way. Then would come THE IMPACT and that is why its said to be a huge earthquake, of course John saw the Mountain cast into the sea and the earth quake and thus the ships, fish are now affected in Trumpet #2, IMHO, the 1/3 is the designation of the hit, the New World & the Pacific Ocean are the 1/3 in nature via all the landmass and all the water on earth.

Then what do we get after the impact? FALLOUT, in the impact that killed the Dino's 70 million years ago it was the Sulfuric Fallout which wound up killing the Dinos off. Its poison, and it blocked out the sun, but that of course was a much bigger asteroid, so the fresh water gets poisoned by the fallout, after the impact of course. Lastly, the fires from all the trees burning and the sulfur from the impact will indeed blot out somewhat the sun and moon, not in full of course. The Fallout might even be from an unheard of metal etc. we have no way of knowing, but it will poison the fresh waters in the two Americas (1/3) imho. So, I just explained how God could (and does imho) use an Asteroid to bring Four Different Judgments on mankind. The Day of the Lord arrives. The Angels are only announcing Judgments, well that is what this one Asteroid brings, four different Judgments. By the way, fires will always come before the impact when we are dealing with a huge asteroid breaking up as it enters our atmosphere.




I understand, but 90 percent of Christians see them as "Super Evangelists", we have all heard it. And, yes sir, we are also servants of God, and we are "Virgins in Christ Jesus" represented by the 10 "Female Virgins" but all Christians are not virgins, we are made whole in Christ Jesus, and the Church is not 10 Female Virgins, 10 stands for Completion !! So, the 10 Female Virgins are not really 10 female virgins but the 144,000 have to be 144,000 male virgins? See my point? God never chooses men to save, thus all of these "Perfect Numbers" are not real numbers, they are codes as in 7000 = 7 (Divine Completion) x 10 x 10 x 10 and 144,000 = 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. God does not chose perfect numbers, He is relaying information unto all which just means ALL Israel will be saved, and both 7000 and 144,000 stand for ALL Israel. Fulness x Completion and Divine Completion x Completion. We also know that 1/3 will repent. All mean the exact same thing we follow Jesus also where he goes, his ways are our ways.


That is the mission of the Angel in Rev. 14:6, nowhere does the bible say the 144,000 is to reach the lost that men's tradition passed down by men. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the same peoples seen in Rev. chapters 4 & 5, the Pre Trib Raptured Church who came out of much tribulation. Jesus said in John 16:33 that we would have peace in him, but that in this evil world we would always have "TRIBULATION", so the whole Church Age is seen by Jesus as Tribulation, thus all time on earth is tribulation, including the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, then we will get the Greatest Ever Troubles seen to mankind, Jacobs Troubles, but those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT come from the 70th week, and I can prove it via scriptures. (remember my Contradiction point earlier? I made a deal with God, from now on any seeming contradiction meant I had to stay on the problem until God gave me the answer, I couldn't just say, oh well.....)

So, in the 5th Seal Jesus tells the Martyres (he is prophesying unto their hearts desire, and he can see all things) that they can not get Vengeance until (very important) ALL of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they have, thus this means they will not get vengeance util the Beasts 42 month rule is over !! This is backed up by Rev. 20:4, we see that only AFTER Jesus' Second Coming do those men who died refusing the Mark of the Beast get raised from the dead, judged and rewarded, so why do we just assume Rev. 7:9-17 are people from the 70th week? Men's Traditions and two words, great tribulation, we have pigeonholed God where Great can only mean one thing. The 2000 some odd year church age can't be great tribulation, even though 2000>7 is a far greater period of time !! So, seeing as how those men seen in Rev. 7:9-17 can not be from the 70th week, that means they are the same Pre Trib Raptured Church seen in Rev. chapters 4 & 5, they are same ones who built the church via their blood, nothing else fits, God never contradicts Himself brother. They do not preach, and these men can not be from the 70th week.

And its not semantics if it throws off who and what the 144,000 really are, the Jews fleeing Judea. Just reading the words real careful in Rev. 7:1-3 would clue us in, God is HOLDING UP the incoming Asteroid (plagues) until these "144,000" are saved and in safe harbor.

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

What does the Trumpet Judgments (Asteroid) HURT? The Earth, Sea & Trees, so these 144,000 "need protecting" they are not some super beings, these are simply the Jews who repent, male and female, just like the 10 Virgins represents us males also in the parable !! God says hold up the asteroid (Day of the Lord God's Wrath) until we get these "144,000" into the safe zone in the Petra/Bozrah area. In Zechariah 13:8-9 we see the 1/3 repent, then in the very next verse (Zech. 14:1) we see the DOTL arrives.

Coffee time, God bless brother.

Again x 3 Ron. Your post has nothing to do with Rev. 8:5. You are telling me a lot of personal information and things that do not apply.

Lets stay focused and allow the Bible to speak to US!.

I just posted verses 6 & 7. Those are the Scriptures we now need to discuss!!

 

[Major]

REVELATION 8:8..........
"And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

The SECOND (2nd) Trumpet sounds!!! This judgment effects 1 a Third of Ships, Fish and the Sea is filled with blood.

NOTICE.....The Scripture DOES NOT SAY A BURNING MOUNTAIN! Look at it and READ it carefully without a predisposition.
This careful distinction in the use of language should be noted!!!!!

The term "AS IT WERE a great mountain" in the Greek original means = "A GREAT FORCE". That does not say WHAT IT IS, only that AS IT WERE. "AS IT WERE" is A qualifier used to emphasize that something is not exactly as it is being described.

Could it be a burning mountain? YES of course. BUT the Scripture does not say that.

It is normal to lump together everything in the Revelation and call it SYMBOLIC. That simply means we do not know what it means so we say.......SYMBOLIC! Now you may think that that practice gets you out of trouble, but all it does is to get you out of the pan and into the fire.

Lets consider Jeremiah 51:25................
"Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth."

Babylon was situated in a plain, flat place, but is called a mountain here, by reason of its superiority and eminence above all other places; and perhaps also on account of its lofty walls, palaces, and other edifices; and it has the epithet of destroying, on account of its being the cause of the destruction of many nations. Now then, the Hebrew word Jeremiah used is הר המשׁחית and is properly be rendered, mountain of corruption.

Note........John was transported 2000 years into the future and then told to write down what he saw. HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE SAW.

Over the years, several thoughts have been given:
1. A Volcano.
2. Results of a War-Nuclear exchanges.

BLOOD is Blood and there is no reason to think that it means something else here. The thought of the blood here is the same as in the Valley of Megiddo. The blood will not be 6 feet deep there, but if the blood in the men in that conflict was piled up, it would be that deep! It is representive of the amount killed.

To be clear, I DO NOT KNOW what this Scripture means. I say that for 2 reasons............
1. John did not tell us. He DID NOT TELL ANYONE else either.
2. I am a believer in the Rapture so I will not be here, so it does not concern me.

Considering the meaning of AS IT WERE, I have come to think that what is in view may very well be the results of WAR.
Remember Rev. 17:17...."God will put into the hearts of men to accomplish His will"!

Most scholars believe that 1/3 represents the Mediterranean Sea in the Middle East. It may very well be 1/3 of all the oceans.
Either way......it is a LITERAL destruction!

Now then..........what are your thoughts on THIS SCRIPTURE??????-----Verse #8!!!

You are free to express your thoughts.

 

[Dave F.]

"As it were a great mountain" is suggesting it is something very large. 1\3 of all the ships and their crew are destroyed as well as 1\3 of all the fish, that is alot of blood. Given that the judgment is aimed at Israel, I could see it being the Mediterranean sea if it is indeed 1\3 of the oceans. It could still be a large meteor.

 

[Major]

I will start my own thread brother, you want to be able to go to other scriptures then say I can't, which makes no sense tbh. Its not how the bible works. And I am correct on these things, it has been my calling for over 37 years. It seems you just don't want any push back on your understandings, so I will leave you to post on your own by yourself, which is the opposite of how Christians should handle the word of God, we can chase 10,000 by working together, too many want to work alone.

One thing I will never do is try to pigeonhole a person, even on my own thread. The Holy Spirit can not be quenched. The Seals do nothing, the whole concept of a locked up messages seems to escape you brother. It is what it is. God Bless.

Brother Ron! Excellent idea!

I did not start this project to argue with you or read confrontational comments from you. Anyone and everyone can comment and add to my postings but what you are doing is just not acceptable.

I did this for ONE reason and that was simply to inform and teach and NOT TO ARGUE but you have decided to do just that.

Please......start your own thread on Prophesy!

You have said several times that Prophesy is your calling for 37 years. Now with all due respect and in Christian love, will you post your credential's to support your comments??

 

[Major]

"As it were a great mountain" is suggesting it is something very large. 1\3 of all the ships and their crew are destroyed as well as 1\3 of all the fish, that is alot of blood. Given that the judgment is aimed at Israel, I could see it being the Mediterranean sea if it is indeed 1\3 of the oceans. It could still be a large meteor.

Thanks you for your well thought out comment.
I agree! It very well could be.
The loss of life is staggering!

Dr. Dwight Pentecost wrote in his book........"The Doctrine Of The Last Days"....
that WW1 prepared the Land for the Jews. -
WW2 Prepared the Jews for the Land.
WW3 Is to prepare the Jews to meet Christ.

Food for thought.

 

[Dave F.]

Thanks you for your well thought out comment.
I agree! It very well could be.
The loss of life is staggering!

Dr. Dwight Pentecost wrote in his book........"The Doctrine Of The Last Days"....
that WW1 prepared the Land for the Jews. -
WW2 Prepared the Jews for the Land.
WW3 Is to prepare the Jews to meet Christ.

Food for thought.

I have heard that throughout WWII 1/3 of all the ships were sunk. I am not saying this is the same, but, just a comparison to the loss.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Major;

I have been following this thread, Revelation, and when you wrap up chapter 22 I'll post my questions and look forward to some discussion and learning points.

In my own thoughts, Revelation makes the reader tremble, when it should make them rejoice. But we must first understand the events of what John is prophesying in order to arrive at the coming of Jesus.

This thread was designed to teach not just the few who are participating and posting, but for the world wide public (29k views) who are still learning or don't understand Revelation, but are able to follow a basic learning of this incredible book.

As a teacher and continuing student myself, one of the disciplines is God is a God of order. Another discipline is being able to distinguish between one's interpretation / opinion, and understanding the hermeneutics of the Scriptures.

As I'm reading each thread and new chapter, I appreciate the current teaching of one chapter at a time, allowing it's learning to sink in with the disciples.

God bless you, Major.

 

[Major]

I have heard that throughout WWII 1/3 of all the ships were sunk. I am not saying this is the same, but, just a comparison to the loss.

Now way to tell but I do not think it was 1/3 of all ships. The USA had 1,554 war-related ships were sunk (I am not that smart, did a googel search).

Worldwide.....???? Looking around online, the best estimate I could find was that about 10 000 ships were lost during the Second World War, including merchant ships.

What is the scary thing........think how many gallons of fuel that had in them and how it polluted the oceans then.

 

[Major]

Hello Major;

I have been following this thread, Revelation, and when you wrap up chapter 22 I'll post my questions and look forward to some discussion and learning points.

In my own thoughts, Revelation makes the reader tremble, when it should make them rejoice. But we must first understand the events of what John is prophesying in order to arrive at the coming of Jesus.

This thread was designed to teach not just the few who are participating and posting, but for the world wide public (29k views) who are still learning or don't understand Revelation, but are able to follow a basic learning of this incredible book.

As a teacher and continuing student myself, one of the disciplines is God is a God of order. Another discipline is being able to distinguish between one's interpretation / opinion, and understanding the hermeneutics of the Scriptures.

As I'm reading each thread and new chapter, I appreciate the current teaching of one chapter at a time, allowing it's learning to sink in with the disciples.

God bless you, Major.

I appreciate those kind words. Do I owe you anything???????? Do you accept Credit cards? Ya know I am retired now!!!!

 

[bobinfaith]

I appreciate those kind words. Do I owe you anything???????? Do you accept Credit cards? Ya know I am retired now!!!!

No, brother, just keep teaching the Word of God as you do. I'm sure most of the membership and world wide public are learning more.

 

[Major]

REVELATION 8:10-11........
"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

The third trumpet once again involves something falling to earth from the sky. Where the second trumpet judgment affected the seas and oceans, this judgment targets fresh waters: lakes, rivers, springs and streams.

These not only serve to provide food and transport, they are vital for providing drinking water. Polluted waters result in sickness and death.

The Greek word here for STAR is "ASTER" and it means any heavenly light emitting body.

At 1st reading we can begin to think about...........
1. A Meteor.
2. A Space Ship or Shuttle Craft.
3. Falling aircraft.
4. Biological weapons attached to misssiles.

Whatever it is, the results are that FRESH WATER is polluted. Rivers, lakes, reservoirs and streams can not be used.

Who remembers what happened on March 13, 1967?????

A USA jet plane released 5 % of the 320 gallons of NERVE GAS that was developed by the USA. It was a mistake to be sure, but that MISTAKE killed 6400 sheep instantly in Skull Valley Utah as a 20 mile wind blew the gas off target. I can not help but wonder if the countries of the world since then have developed even more effective agents.?????

"WORMWOOD" is a name used "metaphorically" in the Old Test. in the following ways........

1. Idolatry of Israel - Deut. 29:18.
2. Calamity and sorrow - Jeremiah 9:15
3. False Judgment - Amos 5:7

The name seems to indicate and suggests that this is a judgment upon man for idolatry and injustice to man to man. IMHO it is a LITERAL Star! Whether it comes directly from God or indirectly through the actions of men...it is a LITERAL event.

 

[Dave F.]

Wormwood in the Ukrainian bible is Chernobyl. Interesting that it had a similar effect.

 

[Major]

Wormwood in the Ukrainian bible is Chernobyl. Interesting that it had a similar effect.

Correct and IT IS very interesting! I looked that up on several sources to confirm it. I had not know that and now knowing it......it places a whole new slant on what the judgment could be.

Thanks brother for the comment! THAT is what Bible study is all about. Growing and learning!

 

[Major]

REVELATION 8:12.........
" And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

The 4th Trumpet sounds and darkness falls on 1/3 of the Sun, Moon and Stars. Again we can answer the question by giving several views
on how this could happen.........

1. God speaks the WORD and it happens. We see confirmation of that in Ex. 10:21-23.
2. This is the result of dirt/dust/debris thrown up into the atmosphere from a Meteor hitting the earth.
3. It could also be debris thrown up into the air from nuclear explosions during a War.

Now consider.....without sunshine plants do not grow. NO plants no food to eat. Already there is a shortage of water to cool off with and drink, now NO food to eat.

Again, 1/3 could mean the Middle East Region. It could also mean 1/3 of ALL over the Earth. It is my OPINION that ALL of the Earth will be effected as the Sun - Moon and Stars shine on ALL the earth at the same time and is not localized.

So you see the results of the FOUR horsemen riding now???????

Now then....in case you did not notice this, just ad the first four Seal judgments were segregated from the others by the designation as HORSES because of their swiftness, so now the last 3 Trumpets are treated the same way and they are called "WOES".
IMPO, I think John did that because of the intense severity of these judgments.

It is also interesting to notice that from the SEAL to the BOWLS, the judgments get increasingly more severe.

That observable fact alone should show that these three sets of 7 judgments ARE NOT three different descriptions of the same events.
In other words, these judgments are NOT THREE different trips through the Tribulation described in THREE different ways.

OK. At this point allow me to say to you that In verse 13 we have the 1st of 3 "WOES".

The 1st WOE is the 5th Trumpet judgment.
The 2nd WOE is the 6th Trumpet judgment.
The 3rd WOE is the 7th Trumpet judgment and the 7th Trumpet contains the complete set of 7 Bowl judgments.

 

[Major]

I need to understand the Second Coming. I thought the true second coming was not until after the war of Armageddon and he set's up his thrown in the mount of olives? When Christ comes back to get his people, is that what everyone is calling the second coming? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am trying to understand as I heard that when Christ comes for his people it is just that, he is coming for his people, but the second coming is when he literally comes back and set's up his kingdom. Maybe I am wording all of this wrong, but I want to fully understand. I want to say I heard a theologian teach this.

YES.

Jesus comes again TWO more time.

#1, He comes in the clouds in 1 Thess. 4 for HIs church. That is referred to as the Rapture. The chuch was told that it was not an object of the wrath of God. The Last Days is the wrath of God so therefore the Chruch (Born Again believers will not be here).

That event is the next phase of the Last Days. AFTER that event there will be 7 years of Tribulation ending with the battle of Armageddon which is actually the 7th BOWL Judgment.

That event will bring to close the Triblulation Peroid and then there will be the Great White Throne Judgment and immediatly the 1000 year rule of Christ will begin.

I am sorry it took so long to respond to you question. I do a lot of study and I have not kept up with answering.

Feel free to PM me is I miss something you asked.