Revelation

REVELATION 7:15.........
"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."


Is this a picture of those who believed in Christ and then lost their lives because of their faith?

The answer is not really clear but IMHO I would say YES<!!!

With all the chaos going on, the A/C hunting down believers in Christ and judgments falling on the earth, it would be very, very optimistic to think that those who believed in Christ would live through that.

I believe the Scriptures indicate that most will be myrtered. Notice the LITERAL words of the verse....."Therefore are they before the throne of God".

That indicates that they are in heaven and are in spirit bodies.


REVELATION 7:16-17............
"They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”


This tells us of the blessings that God has promised all believers.

So much for chapter 7. The church has been Raptured, the wicked judged, but yet there is a revival where uncounted numbers come to Christ.

The time line here is toward the end of the 7 year Tribulation. Remember......."PARENTHECTICAL"!
 
I will leave it here, getting too long for my liking (hard to explain) and my Mom is in the ICU at UAB, so I have my mind elsewhere, all you guys put in a prayer fir mom, I fasted last week for three days, I think I will start another fast tomorrow. She's 87 going on 88 but her sister is 106 !! Come Lord come. Amen

I will touch on your other points tomorrow brother, too tired to be coherent. By the way, my moms much better, thanks for the prayers guys. Back 30 years ago my mom had cancer (95 percent) and my brothers and sister were all scared to death as they gathered at the hospital I had prayed a snot (excuse that) rendering prayer in tears and I had felt virtue leave my body, I knew, that I knew, that I knew she had no cancer (Smile, we serve a wonderous God Amen that brigs us peace beyond all understanding) and they were scare to death. And of course they said to their amazement there was now nothing there. BOOM !! Amen.
Have a blessed day brother/

Hello Rondonmonson;

Thank you for sharing your posts to Major's teaching on Revelation.

I'm joining you and your family in prayer for your Mom. Praise God for sustaining her health and for your heart to be there with her.

God bless
you, Rondonmonson, and your whole family.
 
Somewhere, may have been here and I forgot I had an account here, who knows, and made another one, or it may have been 7 or 8 years ago. I use different names.


In Dan. 12 we see the 1260 (Time, times and half [time]and we all know it means that the Anti-Chrost has been given 1260 days to rule over Israel, and then Jesus shows up to END ALL THESE WONDERS (as the Angel suggested in verse 6) at the Second Coming, but for some reason when Daniel asks the Man in Linen (Jesus pre incarnate) the exact same question in verse 8, we seem to miss (I did for years) that the other two numbers have to be the same symmetry, a specific number of days until "All these wonders end" (2nd Coming). All these wonders are pointing to Daniel 11:36-45, the Anti-Christs rule.

Once we understand the 1225 and 1290 are that many days until the 2nd coming, the we have to piece together what the numbers stand for because it is not explained as the 1260 is, or not as clearly. The 1290 thus is the False Prophet, he "takes away the sacrifice" (stops Jesus worship) 30 days before the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering at the 1260 event. When I did an Exegesis of Dan. 11 and 12 the Holy Spirit showed me all of this, and the reasons both of these numbers were left unclear. But, we always have to test the spirits, I did that backward and forwards, and actually to my surprise it held up so much it gave me chills. It even sounded crazy to me, but I knew the 1290 and 1335 could not be over in the New Millennium, so at my testing, did the 1290 make sense? (this led to my 1335 understanding later) Yes indeed it did. By looking at the AoD it never made sense to me that the Anti-Christ was allowed to conquer the Jews before they were given a sign to flee Judea, but if the AoD happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ goes forth, then that means the Jews have 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area. (So CHECK, that just makes sense, God understands this if I do...FOR SURE, LOL). And when I read Rev. 13, it hit me, its the 2nd Beast or False Prophet that places the Image and demands all men to worship it. And Dan. 9:27 actually says the Anti-Christ CAUSES all of this. " in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease," as if he's exerting political pressure from afar like Hitler did via the return of the Sudetenland pre WW2.

During my Exegesis I came across a man named Jason (real name Yeshua) who bribed Antiochus Epiphanes into naming hm the Jewish High Priest, thereby having his Pious High Priest brother, Onias III killed. He then welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God and allowed him to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus on the altar of God. He then mandated the Hellenization of all of the Jews leading unto the infamous Maccabean Revolt !! Thus I finally understood where Gid was leading me here, Antiochus (Dan. 11:21-34) was not only the TYPE Anti-Christ, but he had a TYPE False Prophet under him, of course I thought, both types would have to rule at the exact same time !! My Exegesis because I wanted to be able to explain Dan. 11 in full was being blessed by God, Amen. But why I wondered did God tell John about the False Prophet in Revelation, but only gave is a vague number in Dan. 12 ? But of course it came to me, if Jesus and Gabriel had of told Daniel about a coming End Time Evil High Priest (False Prophet), then the Jews would have killed every other High Priest for the next 500 years, just like King Herod tried to have baby Jesus killed. Eureka I thought. Makes sense.

Now I wondered what the 1335 was, it had to happen 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260. As I pondered and prayed this came unto me, how do the Jews know that they should flee Judea when they actually see the AoD ? Then it hit me, they have to have repented and read Matt. 24, because Dan. 12 is way to vague. So, I went to searching, when do the Jews repent, of course, smile. Well, Malachi 4:4-6 says that Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God. Then I saw in Zechariah 13:8-9 that 1/3 of the Jews repent whilst 2/3 will refuse to do so sand die, then in the very next verse (Zech. 14:1) we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES !! So, the Jews repent JUST BEFORE the Day of the Lord (1260) in both cases. So, how do they repent? Well of course that means the 1335 "Blessing" has to be the Two-witnesses, as Malachi 4:5 suggests. BUT, does it fit the timing, I always test the spirits. If the Two-witnesses show up first (and they do) and both the Anti-Christ and the Two-witnesses have pre ordained offices on this earth for 1260 days, then they must also DIE FIRST, but do they? Yes, they die at the end of the 2nd Woe in Rev. 11 while the Anti-Christ dies at the 7th Vial which thus has to be 75 days later. I know, I though my ideas were way off to start with also, but it all fits. Then this hit me, how can a "MEAT SACRIFICE" being take away ever defile the temple? That in and of itself would be a defilement, the only way the Temple can be cleansed is for the Jews to repent and start worshiping Jesus as their savior, as Zech. 12:10 and 13:1 says they do. That is when a "Political" Jewish High Priest, who is enraged that there are now 3-5 million Jews praising Jesus, many in the temple of God, stops Jesus Worship in the temple of God (THINK Jason under Antiochus) and then in his anger places an Image of the Anti-Christ, who I think will be the E.U. President, in the Temple of God to spite these Jews who have received Jesus as their Messiah. This gives us not only all of the correct answers, by using this 1260 number via both the Two-witnesses and the Anti-Christ God has JUXTAPOSED both timelines against each other. We can now understand when each shows up, and when each die, we know the Last Woe lasts for 75 days. We know the Two-witnesses show up 45 dats before the AoD etc. etc.

The 1290 is not nor could it be the Anti-Christ, he only comes on the scene 30 days later. This explains all of the end time understanding's to a tee. Once we understand what the 1335, 1290 and 1260 are. all end time prophecy becomes clear. This is not east to explain. some excuse the length. I was at UAB most of the day, I am kind of tired, but never too tired to do my calling. Its in my blood, Smile. Think it all though and just keep it in the back of your mind. God bless.

I will touch on your other points tomorrow brother, too tired to be coherent. By the way, my moms much better, thanks for the prayers guys. Back 30 years ago my mom had cancer (95 percent) and my brothers and sister were all scared to death as they gathered at the hospital I had prayed a snot (excuse that) rendering prayer in tears and I had felt virtue leave my body, I knew, that I knew, that I knew she had no cancer (Smile, we serve a wonderous God Amen that brigs us peace beyond all understanding) and they were scare to death. And of course they said to their amazement there was now nothing there. BOOM !! Amen.

Have a blessed day brother/

Great stuff my brother. It is clear that instead of just giving OPININONS -- you have actually done the homework of study to show yourself approved. A workman of the Word of God.

Now up front...........I APOLOGIZE for the length of my post. I do not like LONG posts but I just could not seem to shorten it up.

May I say in response, these numbers and days and dates can be very confusing and it is easy to lose ones focus in the minutia.

Now, having said that I do hope that we do not get bogged down on this so we lose the focus of the Revelation teaching.....
it has been my understanding that the 1290 days (Daniel 12:11) and the 1335 days (Daniel 12:12) are combinations of "a time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 12:7).

First element:
1260 days (convert to three-and-a-half symbolic years —360 symbolic days to a year).

Second element:
A remainder of days (convert to symbolic months —30 symbolic days to a month).

Consider the second element in each case. From the number 1290, we have a remainder of 30 days (1290-1260=30).
This is one symbolic month. From the number 1335 we have a remainder of 75 days (1335-1260=75).
This is two months and half a month (75 is 2 times 30 plus a half of 30, ie 60+15=75).

See..........we are (I am) already beginning to get BOGGED down in minutia!

Now, in case anyone is interested in this stuff, allow me to say to you reading this that the remainder of 1290 is one month
The remainder of 1335 is two months and half a month.
This is a time, times, and half a time in symbolic months, just as the original element in the numbers was a time, times, and half a time in symbolic years.

We do not regard the two numbers of days as separate periods but as one period of 1260 days with a burden added. In the first instance (1290) there is a burden of one month added, whilst in the second instance (1335) there is added a greater burden of two months, then a lesser burden of half a month.

NO, I can not Scripturally validate this, and it is my OPINION, but I suggest that you can think of the symbolic years as representing the world, whilst the symbolic months represent our individual lives. Daniel is seeking knowledge of the world, but the angel turns Daniel’s attention to himself and his own lifetime in 12:13 and says....
"As for you, go your way to the end, then you will enter into rest and rise again for your alotted portion at the end of the days".

I believe that everyone is like Daniel, and has an interest and a place in world history and in the world future. But we don't live in history nor in the future but in the present. World history and the world future are symbolically represented as 1260 days or a time, times and half a time in symbolic years. Our own personal lifetime is symbolically represented as 30 days or a "time" in symbolic months.

The lesson to be learned then is that Essentially this means a time of tribulation.
In our lifetime, as a child of God, we will suffer. It may even be that we suffer double trouble (two months or two "times") but God helps us along the way and he makes the seem like "half a time" (half a symbolic month).

I am praying for you and your family at this time.
 
Thanks for your prayers brother, just keep this in the back of your mind, it kind of goes with Revelation, because (thats why I mentioned it) I see the 144,000 as the 3-5 million Jews who flee Judea in Rev. 7 (see how I got there? Smile). Sorry about my spelling just really tired last night. (plus I am wall papering my bathrooms, and I tore off old wallpaper last night, that's a nightmare)

I have done finished up the whole book of Revelations timeline also, so I will join in on down the road when I get some rest, plus I fasted three days last week, and am on 2 day now, we have to "Hold up that Staff", Amen.

God Bless

I do understand and many think that. I am just one believes literally that 144 K means 144 K. I am positive that the 144 K will grow to millions hence the revival we see in chapter 7.
 
REVELATION 8:1.........
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."


The "Parenthetical" vision has ended and we now come back to the "time line" of order which is now toward the last part of the 1st 3 1/2 year of the 7 year Tribulation.

In this verse the apostle John tells us there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. He must have estimated the time from an earthly perspective because such delays have no meaning in an eternal heaven.

The silence could be for many reasons. Three that I have heard said are........
1. Peace before the coming storm.
2. The host of heaven is astonished and in awe of what is about to happen.
3. The Church in heaven is in prayer.

It could be none of the above or ALL of the above. Personally, I go with ALL of the above. Have you ever been in a court room? Well I have on several occasions. What you will notice is that as the time of the judge coming into the room, all, everyone gets quiet with out being told to do so. The silence is significant. Just as silence pervades a courtroom when the judge is about to render a verdict in a criminal trial, so the occupants of heaven fall silent as they anticipate what the Judge of the universe is about to do.

Now as I detailed earlier, the 7th Seal is actually the set of 7 "Trumpet" judgments. There will now be 7 Trumpet judgments and the 7th Trumpet will be the set of 7 Bowl judgments.


REVELATION 8:2................
"And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."


Did you notice that the seven angels do not begin the judgments without receiving the trumpets.
Only God has the prerogative to judge sinners, so He gives the trumpets to the seven angels. The judgments that follow the trumpet blasts are meant to be especially significant to Israel, Jews who follow the dictates of the false prophet.

Matthew 24:11-12.....................
"
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

Today, we...modern world are acclmented to TV and Radion and Compters and modern comunication devices.
Much more so than a modern audience, Israel was familiar with trumpets. Trumpets summoned the nation to assemble, called upon soldiers to prepare for war, and signaled the beginning of festivals. Joel 2:1 predicts that the blowing of a trumpet will alert Israel to the approaching day of the Lord. Isaiah 27:13 promises that a great trumpet will summon Jews to leave their dispersion and return to Jerusalem to worship the Lord.

Matthew 24:31 echoes this promise. Jesus said, ........
"And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

"I SAW" means that John is an eye witness to the contents of the 7th Seal as it is shown to him. Remember what was said earlier......
WORD PICTURES!

These are 7 "particular" angels as the original Greek language here is written to show a definite article. These are not Arch angels as there is only ONE ( 1) arch angel but evidently these 7 are selected from a greater number on the account of the 7 trumpets they represent. That means that they are particular to this specific situation.
 
(joke ahead)
Proof positive that women don't make it to heaven!

LOL..........YOU have been reading Dr. J. Vernon MaGee!!!!!

He said exactly that in his production of "Through the Bible".

I used that same phrase 40 years ago when I preached through the Revelation. I can say that it got a lot of amens ( Men )and a lot of song books thrown at me. --Ladies. (Just kidding).

Just as a side note, the wonderful Dr. MaGee also wrote in his same production about 1 Corinthians 14:34 concerning speaking in tongues......
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

Dr. MaGee said...."Take the women out of the tongues movement and there is no tongue movement"!
 
(joke ahead)
Proof positive that women don't make it to heaven!

I used that same phrase 40 years ago when I preached through the Revelation. I can say that it got a lot of amens ( Men )and a lot of song books thrown at me. --Ladies. (Just kidding).

I would have loved to have been in attendance for that one, Major. lol!
 
REVELATION 8:3.........
"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."


Now before going any further, I feel the need to clarify verse #2 a little bit. Having been around a long time, one of the benifits of old age is that you are exposed to all kinds of opinions and thoughts and teachings that come more from the human mind than the Word of God.

Now that being said, allow me here to say that the "Last Trump" of 1 Corinthians 15 is NOT THE 7TH TRUMP OF REBELATION 8.
There is NO relationship between the two, other than the word Trump.

Read with me the Word of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16...........
" For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

The "SHOUT" there is the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Look at the literal words....."with the voice of an archangel,".
His voice will sound like a Trumpet! Clear and loud!


From chapter #1 we saw that John heard a voice LIKE the sound of a Trumpet and he turned and identified the glorified Christ!!!

When Paul makes the statement of "The trump shall sound and the dead shall be raised"...........he is referring to the call of the Lord Jesus to the dead in Christ who shall be raised from the dead.

This is another nail in the coffin to those who reject the pre-tribulation Rapture.
In 1 Thess. 4.....it is the last call Christ makes to the church and is therefore called the "Last trump"

I would encourage all who read this to actually do some homework on this.
This is exactly one of the examples of how someone can take a Scripture out of CONTEXT and make out a false teaching that can cause eternal damage to those who DO NOT DO THE STUDY!

Now then, in this verse #3, John tells us he saw another angel stand at the altar with a golden censer. Although some interpreters identify this angel as Christ, there is no explicit reason to think this must be Jesus.

Those who think this angel is Christ base that opinion on ...........
1. This angel is seen casting judgment on the earth.
2. This angel is seen as mediating between God and man.
3. This angel is seen at the alter of intercession adding prayers offered.

Those who say that this is NOT Christ Jesus offer their reasons as...........
1. This angel does not provide the power (Incense)-it is given to him.
2. He is then offering the prayers TO Christ.

Personally, I see NO reason why John would use the word "Another Angel" when he has already identified the glorified Son of God as the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah.

This eighth angel received much incense to offer at the golden altar. Along with the incense were the prayers of the saints. Likely these prayers ascend to heaven from the tribulation believers. Perhaps they are praying for deliverance from their trials or for grace to enable them to withstand them.

In Old Testament times Israel's high priest would take hot coals from the bronze altar of burnt sacrifice, add incense, and carry the burning incense to the altar of incense inside the holy place (Leviticus 16:12–18).

The smoke from the burning incense would ascend heavenward, symbolizing the prayers of the people who gathered outside during this event.

Luke 1:8–11 portrays the priest Zechariah offering incense at the altar of incense while the people outside prayed.
 
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I have the cassette tape of it somewhere in my wife's cedar chest. I know it is there but where is the problem.

She saved everything. Can you imagine how many tapes she has??? 40 years, Sunday moring, Sunday evening, Sunday School,
50 revival services, training conferences.!

We gave up a long time ago in trying to log and catechize. We decided that would be a kob for the grandkids and then they can make the money on the books and movie....;););)
 
She saved everything. Can you imagine how many tapes she has??? 40 years, Sunday moring, Sunday evening, Sunday School,
50 revival services, training conferences.!

We gave up a long time ago in trying to log and catechize. We decided that would be a kob for the grandkids and then they can make the money on the books and movie....;););)

Wow......my spell check failed me.

Should have been......"Mornings".
Should have been......"categorize".
Should have been......"JOB".
 
Got me 24 hours of rest (on and off). Feel much better.

Instead of my trying to play catch up I'll just give a synopsis of all the chapters you have went over and then pick up where you are at now. That way you will have a general idea of where I am coming from.

I see Rev. 1 as John seeing the Glorified Jesus (things you have seen).

I see Rev. 2 and 3 as John being shown the Church Age whereas the 7 Churches represent the Complete Church Age because 7 represents divine completion. Those 7 are 7 types of churches throughout the 2000 some odd year church age period. Smyrna has tribulation 10 days (complete church age). Jesus ends the Church age in Rev. 4:1 wen he calls us home and he sounds as a Trump (think Last Trump). This ends the Harvest of souls by the Church. (The things WHICH ARE)

Rev. 4:4 is the Church seen in Heaven, they have on White Robes, Crowns, and sit Amidst the throne of God, All of these are promised to those who overcome in Rev. 2:10, 3:5 and 3:21. The 24 Elders represent the 24 Orders of the Priesthood in 1 Chronicles 24, and we are called Kings and Priest in Rev. 1 and Rev. 5:9-10. (The things which will be HEREAFTER)

Rev. 5 is Jesus amidst the Church in Heaven, just before he opens the Seals. We see that the Church sings the praises of the Father and the Son. I see Rev. 4 and 5 as one event in reality.

Rev. 6 is Jesus PROPHESYING what the Trumpet Judgments will bring when ALL SEVEN SEALS are finally opened, the Seals do nothing !! If a king of old got a message with three seals on it, opening two did nothing, only when the 3rd seal was off could he read the message. Jesus is using that same symbolism here. I will give an illustration at the end to show this point.

So, the First 5 Seals are all about the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ, this is not a real time event, it is Jesus prophesying mere days or weeks before it happens, in heaven, amidst the [Pre Trib] Raptured Church what will happen when all 7 seals are finally loosed. But the First Four Horsemen stand fir this, The White Horse means the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering over a 42 month period of time. The Red Horse means he takes away Peace or brings war for 42 months. The Black Horse represents the famine his wars and his rule of 42 months cause. Finally the Pale Green Horse represents the Sickness, Death, and the Grave his 42 month rule brings. The 5th Seal is also the Anti-Christ, Jesus has prophesied the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ will bring Conquering, War, Famine and Death. Now he prophesies that the Anti-Christ will kill the Saints(Gentiles who repent, the Jews are protected when they repent) over a 42 month period of time.

Jesus now opens the 6th Seal and Prophesies that soon the (see Rev. 8) Sun and Moon will go Dark on the Day of the Lord God's Wrath. But none of this happens until the Asteroid Impact n Rev. 8. The Anti-Christ is either not allowed to go forth conquering until the Asteroid strike, or chooses to wait until the Asteroid strike takes out 1/3 of the World (I think the New World is destroyed, it has 1/3 of the worlds Landmass, the Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of the worlds water). So, Satan whispers Dark Sentences (Riddles) unto him, or he tells him to wait until the USA is wiped out before he goes forth conquering. The First 5 Seals are all 42 month of attributes which are of the Anti-Christ, God's Wrath also lasts for 42 months, they run parallel. The 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8 for a reason, NOTHING HAPPENS until the 7th Seal is opened, only then can the Scroll be read from.

Illustration

Lets say a person has 7 gifts their received for Christmas, he tells all of his friends to come over and see his gifts, he has locked them in a closet and placed 7 locks on the door. His friends finally show up, he tells them about a golden harmonica as he opens the first lock, then he tells them about a nice leather bound bible as he opens the second lock. Lets skip to the 6th lock, he tells his friends about a nice Fender Guitar and describes it to a tee. But as of yet, not one friend has seen ANYTHING have they? The 7th Lock is still on the door !! Only when he opens the 7th lock can the door be opened, and the gifts revealed. If it was me, when I opened the 7th lock, I would say nothing, I would be silent and just open the door. This is why there is silence in Heaven when the 7th lock is opened, judgment is at hand, there is nothing left to be said. Heaven did not revel in the great flood, they will not revel in this end time judgment either !!

Now, knowing the Seals DO NOTHING, allows us (me) to see Rev. 7 as the Jews Fleeing Judea (AoD event), just before the Judgments fall on mankind. Because the 1260 event (DOTL) only starts with the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments. That's why the First Four Trumps are all one event, an Asteroid Impact. Trump #1 is the breaking apart of an asteroid, thus even before the impact, many trees will burn. Trump #2 is the Asteroid Impact. Trump #3 is the Fall Out, the Sulfur fallout from the asteroid that killed off the Dinos 70 million years ago is what killed them. Whatever the fallout is this time, it will poison 1/3 of the waters (North & South America). Then lastly we see Trumpet #4, the Sun and Moon goes dark, fulfilling the 6th Seal Prophesy and the Joel 2:31 prophesy.

In order to understand Revelation in fill, IMHO, one has too understand the Seals are Jesus Prophesying wat is about to befall mankind when he finally opens the 7th Seal, and why its over in Rev. 8. God in Rev. 7 says HOLD BACK the plagues and HURT NOT, the Seas, Trees, and Earth until the 144,000(3-5 million Jews who repent) are sealed (which just means saved, and are full of the holy spirit). So, God will not allow the Wrath to fall until the Jews who have repented make it into the Petra/Bozrah area of safety.

God Bless, I am now in chapter 8. Its a go. I am caught up.

I can not acept that "It is over in Rev. 8".

The Trumpet judgmenst are only beginning in chapter 8 and then there will be 7 Bowl Judgmenst, so the end is still about 3 to 4 years away on the time line.

The start of the Trumpets are at the 3 and 1/2 year mark. The judmensts are set to be progressive and more extreme as they take place.

Example.....turn the oven on to 250 degrees = Seal Judgments.
Turn it again to 350 degree..................................= Trumpets.
Now turn it up to 500 degrees............................= Bowls.
 
Why the 7th Seal is "Over in Rev. 8" (as instead of in Rev. 6 with the rest of the seals). Not bad grammar per se by me, but I can see why you thought I was saying its over instead it is "over in Rev. 8" instead of in Rev. 6 with the other Seals. That is in no way my understanding however, Rev. 8 begins the 1260 day "Day of the Lord or God's Wrath". So, yes, it will continue for 3.5 years after it starts. So, your 3 to 4 years is pretty spot on.


Agreed, as the above clarification shows.


As I pointed out in my "longer post to catch up" the Seals are Prophetic in nature only, they do nothing. Seal #6 comes to pass via the Fourth Trumpet Judgment, just as Joel 2:31 does also, the Sun and Moon goes dark because of the smoke from the burning trees and asteroid impact via the Trumpet Judgments. The Last three trumps are the three Woes, Rev. 8:13 confirms this. The last woe (7th trump) is the 7 Vials. Thus the 7 Thunders in Rev. 10 confirms that when they are sounded time [as we know it] will be no more.

All of the Judgments are contained in the 7 Trumpets, the 7 Vials protrude from the 7th trump. The Seals only unbind the Scroll of Judgments, just like a kings message could only be read after all of the seals have been taken off. I used to discount everyone who said the Seals, Trumps and Vials are all the same events, they were wrong in reality, but they understood the Seals matched up with other events, but they did not understand that the Seals were Jesus Prophesying what was soon to come, not actual events. Wax Seals bind messages by people !! Only when al the seals are off can the message be read.

I agree the Bowls are worse, but they are the last Trump also.

God bless my brother. I love discussing the book Revelation, its a Blessing fir me and you my friend, God wrote the book of Revelation, gave it to Jess His son, who gave it to John in visions and words via angels. Glory to God, Amen.

I can see that we will difer a little bit. Chapter 8 is not quite the......."Rev. 8 begins the 1260 day "Day of the Lord or God's Wrath". "

I would say that it is close but just not there yet. The time period coveribing 1,260 days, figures to 42 months, or 3 1/2 years.
It is my understanding that this prophecy has not yet been fulfilled but will be during the end-times tribulation.

The 42 months refers to the reign of the Antichrist, specifically, the last half (3 1/2 years) of the 7 year period.
How we will know it is the 1260 day time frame is that At the beginning of that time, the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel and set up “the abomination that causes desolation” = Mark 13:14 & Daniel 9:27)—that is the act that links the Antichrist to Antiochus Epiphanes, who similarly defiled the temple. The Antichrist will then turn his attention to the genocide of the Jews.

When the A/C declares himself to be God from the Temple, the Jews will know that they are in severe trouble. THAT will be the start of the 42 month = 1260 days = 3 and 1/2 year Tribulation.

The 7th Seal IS the complete set of 7 Trumpets. The 7th Trumpet is the complete set of 7 Bowls.
 
REVELATION 8:4..........
“And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.”



This verse informs us that the smoke from the burning incense that included the prayers of God's people arose to God. God delights in the prayers of His people. Quoting from Psalm 34, 1 Peter 3:12 says,.......
"The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer."

It should encourage us to know our prayers please God.

He invites us to draw near His throne with confidence Heb. 4:16..... "that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need".

The tribulation saints will avail themselves of God's invitation to pray, and they will call upon Him for grace and mercy. Their prayers and ours ascend to heaven as sweet-smelling perfume. Even Jesus availed Himself of the opportunity to pray in time of need.

Hebrews 5:7 reports: "In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

His being saved from death must refer to His resurrection. Jesus died, but He conquered death by rising from the grave.

The Time frame is still in the 1st 3 and 1/2 years but very close to the mid-way point.



REVELATION 8:5............
"And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."


This verse reports the last thing that happens in heaven before the trumpet judgments begin. In the prior verse, the smoke rising from burnt incense represented the prayers of God's people. The eighth angel fills the censer with fire from the altar and hurls it onto the earth. The altar represents sacrifice for sinners, and fire represents judgment.

Who is this angel?????
I do not know and neither do I care. It is what it is. Two of the men I respect the most are J. Vernon MaGee and Oliver B. Green.
Dr. Magee thinks that this angel is a strong angel and Dr. Green tinks that it is Christ that JOhn sees.
As I said.......some things in the Revelation just do not matter and this is one of those things. It does not matter who the angel is, only that he is.

Because Jesus, God's Lamb, was sacrificed on the cross for our sin, God withholds His judgment from us. Romans 8:1 explains.....
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

However, in Revelation 8:5 judgment on sinners follows the altar of sacrifice. Those who remained unbelievers prior to the tribulation had rejected Christ's atonement and therefore must experience God's judgment. The tribulation judgments offer a stern warning to all today who harden their hearts against the Savior.

Proverbs 29:1 cautions.........
"He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck, will suddenly be broken beyond healing."

The Scripture urges us in Hebrews 3:15........ "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts".

Loud thunder, rumblings, streaks of lightning, and an earthquake precede the seven trumpet judgments. These ominous occurrences must truly cause earth's inhabitants to tremble.
 
Yes, of course its not there "yet" but I assume you are speaking in future tense speak as in, we are not there yet in Rev. chapter 8. So, I will go off that marker. Does the Anti-Christ come first ? Yes, he makes the Agreement to start the 70th week, BUT....he is not the Beast until he conquers Jerusalem/Israel AND The Many (the whole Mediterranean Sea Region). So, he becomes the Beast like Dan. 12:7 says (Jesus is/was the Man in Linen) when the holy peoples are conquered, so HOW LONG UNTIL ALL THESE WONDRS END = 1260 days. So, the Anti-Christ becomes the Beast by Conquering Israel and The Many. The AoD happens 30 days before the 1260 at the 1290, and the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back to God BEFORE the 1290 at the 1335, each number is that many days until the Second Coming Ends all of these (Dan. 11:36-45) wonders Daniel had just bee shown in Dan. 11. So, in essence, this A.C. who hears Dark Sentences (Riddles from Satan) understands his play is to WAIT on the Asteroid strike that will wipe out 1/3 of the world, and since the New World (North & South America) make up exactly 1/3 of the landmass in the world and the Pacific Ocean makes up 1/3 of all the waters on the earth, I think the1/3 is more of a code telling us where this asteroid will hit. Common sense also has to be used, Jesus will rule from the Old World or Jerusalem, I think the New World especially after the Rapture, will be destroyed by much fire and the water poisoned from the fallout. So, in order to have a strategic advantage, Satan whispers unto him to wait, the USA will be destroyed, while most everyone else is preoccupied with the Asteroid, he will strike, and this is also after Russia, Iran and Turkey's Armies have been wiped out by the Gog ?& Magog war !! So, the Anti-Christs path is made straight, God uses him as a tool to get Israel to repent

Ever read the European Neighborhood Policy ? On Wikipedia you can see that the E.U. has 7 year Agreements in place now with Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, Egypt and Algeria. They are deals that may one day seek to get these nations to become a part pf the E.U. and as of now they seek cooperation. Now, when one looks at the E.U. and these Nations combined (The MANY), they look just like the old Roman Empire on a Map, they cover the exact same landmass !! Then when one looks at Dan. 11:40-43 you can see the Anti-Christ will roll through countries tp get at Israel, Syria, Jordan etc. he then conquers the Pleasant land, (Israel) and Egypt, Ethiopia (or all North Africa) but it says he can not conquer Edom, Ammon and Moab, which just so happens t be where the Petra/Bozrah area is at. Those verses are a play by play of the Anti-Christ conquering the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, Israel and THE MANY. No "Beast has ever just ruled over Israel they rule the whole region.


Yes, but he is not allowed or either his strategy is to go forth conquering when God's Wrath Falls, so they both run parallel, God's Wrath#7. Satan is cast down and chases the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days. He is the Agreement (Covenant simply means Agreement in Hebrew, its not Holy per se) The E.U. President (Anti-Christ) gets Israel to join the E.U. (which is why looking at the European Neighborhood Policy......which I chanced upon, Smile is so important) and makes them give up their Nukes in order t be a E.U. Member State !! Israel plays futbal/soccer in the E.U. Israel has been wanting to be an E.U. Member for 20 plus years. Think of Hawaii and how the USA is her protector, the W-E.U./Anti-Christ is going tp make a pitch like that to Israel, we will be your protector, trust us !! That is the Covenant, Israel will join the E.U. and she not only loses her sovereignty but Israel will make God angry by signing that "Agreement".

The AoD is actually the False Prophet who stops the "1/3" or 3-5 Million Jews (Zechariah 13:8-9) from worshiping Jesus (takes away THE SACRIFICE, which DEFILES the temple !! no Meat Sacrifice can defile that which is already defiled). He also places the Image of the Beast (AoD) as Rev. 13 shows us, the 1290 happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ becomes The Beast by Conquering Israel at the 1260 event. The 1290 actually is a SIGN by God so that the Jews who have repented can flee Judea BEFORE they actually get Conquered by the Anti-Christ. It makes no sense t flee Judea at the 1290 if the Anti-Christ has already conquered Israel !! The False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason (real name Yeshua) under Antiochus, he welcomed Antiochus into the temple to sacrifice a pig on the Altar of God unto Zeus. He then trued to mandate Hellenization which led to the Maccabean Revolt.


Paul did say that, but defer to John and Daniel on this. He will say he is a god, but not Jesus/God Almighty. Basically they say mankind are their own gods, Humanism, Atheism. The 7 Seal unbinds a book of Judgments. If a King gets a Message with three signet seals on it, when 2 were off, would anyone insist the Message had already been read? Jesus who knows all is simply prophesying as he releases each seal. The 7th Seal unbinds the last "lock" on the Scroll of Judgments. No message can be read or pronounced unto all the seals are off, people are lookin it this wrongly, and out of habit, as I did for 30 plus years, saying there are 21 Judgments. Its obvious the 6th Seal Prophecy is God's coming Asteroid Strike eventually turns the Sun and Moon dark because of all the fires. Which is where you are at now, Rev. 5.

Mom came home today, thanks for all the prayers guys, 5 days ago they said if she came home it would probably be 2-3 weeks (SMILE). But, I had to work all day getting her house ready on short notice, sad, sad, sad, I am disabled from a Heart Attack, Cancer and Diabetes, but I got it done. I will sure be glad when we get those Glorious bodies. lol.

I appreciate your responce brother. However, it is way toooo much for me to respond to. What say we focus on "One" Scripture of the Revelation at a time instead of an overview as you just did. I am not trying to teach the Last Days as a whole but a verse by verse exegesis of the Revelation.

You said.....
" Yes, he makes the Agreement to start the 70th week, BUT....he is not the Beast until he conquers Jerusalem/Israel"

That is really not the case. HE IS the Anti-Christ who is the Beast and the Man of Sin. His true identity is not known until he stands in the temple and declares himself to be God. However......that does not make him the Beast at that time as he was always the Beast.
 
REVELATION 8:5............
"And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."


The eighth angel fills the censer with fire from the altar and hurls it onto the earth. The altar represents sacrifice for sinners, and fire represents judgment.

So far in Revelation, angels have initiated praise to God and the Lamb, kept the symbolic winds of God's judgment from blowing, and sealed 144,000 saved Jews to keep them safe throughout the tribulation. Now, even as angels prepare to blow seven trumpets that initiate judgment, another angel burns a censer of incense with the prayers of the saints and then fills the censer with fire and hurls it down to the earth.

At this point, it is imperative to understand that John is trying to convey to his readers what he has seen in the language and words that he has. He is seeing at least 1927 years (As of today) into the future and then using the only knowledge he has to explain what he saw.
If YOU were given a vision by God into the future 2000 years from now and then told me what you saw......How would you describe it????

"THUNDER" = the approach of the coming storm of God's judgment.

"VOICES" = Reveals that this is the intelligent coming storm of God and NOT the purposeless work of natural forces.

"LIGHTNINGS" = Lightning and thunder go hand in hand. We see the lightning before we hear the thunder.

The "EARTHQUAKE" seems to be the earths responce to the severe pressure that is placed upon it.
 
You don't have to respond brother, I personally enjoy the back and forth, its how God teaches me, its a blessing to read and discuss this one book more than others it seems, as Jesus implied that. So, I do that often in many places. I was catching up,, I did not expect an answered reply tbh. I was then goin tp start replying to each post separately.



This is not the case, the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin only become "The Beast" when he Conquers Israel/Jerusalem, the holy peoples and The Many. Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Babylon, but not a "Beast" until he conquered Israel. The very word denotes a person/kingdom who has Dominion over others or a region. The Anti-Christ/Man of Sin are indeed monikers given to a man who is that person his whole life, but he only becomes a Beast once he goes forth conquering. He's only a Beast for 42 months.

Rev. 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Not 7 years, not 50 if he lives that long, but he is a Beast for only 3.5 years. Before that he will be an "Elected President" and that is what Rev. 17:12 means, the 10 kings (Complete E.U. council) give their power unto him.

The "Mortal Wound" to the Beast was Rome being converted from a Beast Kingdom unto a conveyor belt for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Anti-Christ heals that Mortal Wound by conquering Israel again, which was not even possible until 1948. The Beast signifies a "Dominion" over an "Entity".

I will go back and start with Rev. 8:1. God Bless

Brother......I appreciate your comments, I DO, but lets focus on Rev. 8:5 which is the one Scripture in front of us now. We can discuss chapter 13 when we get there as well as your other concerns. But lets stay pointed on one Scripture at a time lest we convolute the CONTEXT and confuse people who are following this teaching...OK????
 
In my honest opinion, Revelation is chock full of Parenthetical Citations. But a lot of people do not see them as we do. I see Rev. 1 as Jesus in all his glory, Rev. 2 & 3 is the Church Age, of course, Rev. 4:1 is the Rapture (Pre Trib). Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in Heaven, Rev. 6 is Jesus prophesying what's t come and opening the Seals, Rev. 7 is Israel fleeing Judea. Now it gets interesting.

Rev. 8, 9 and 15&16 are the real time events of Judgments, Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and most of 19 are Parenthetical Citation Chapters that happen during chapters 8, 9 and 15&16. The reason I combine 15&16 is I see Rev. 8 in the same manner, but its not divided, the Angels are readying the Trumpet Judgments and then they sound, well in Rev. 15 the Angels are readying the Vial Judgments, then in Rev. 16 they are poured out. So, all the Judgments come in Rev. 8, 9 and 16. All the other chapters are Parenthetical in nature. Each chapter usually has a meaning, Rev. 14 is the Harvest chapter, Rev. 11 the Two-witnesses chapter, Rev. 17 the False Religion (Harlot) chapter etc.


The Silence refers to God and the Angels not rejoicing in the coming Judgments, plus the 7th Seal brings God's Wrath, whereas Jesus was Prophesying in Seal's 1-6, now he just allows the Judgments to speak for themselves, Judgment is now at at hand. In Rev. 7 the Judgments were held up unto the Jews who repented were sealed in safety in the Petra/Bozrah area and saved by Grace via repentance. The Church is indeed in Heaven, and in prayer, no doubt. The prayers of the Saints are taken in like incense and cast down to earth in the form of fire. (Asteroid)


Yes indeed, they ready each Judgment via the Trumps they receive. NOTICE, the 7 Trumps and Vials both do this, nowhere is there 7 Seals that are "Readied" !! That is because the Seals are not judgments. God's symmetry always reveals these deeper truths, IMHO.



I agree, Trumpets had meanings, the Feast of Trumps announced that the Harvest was over at the 100th Trump or "Last Trump" and announced that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacles were both near. I personally think the three false christs/prophets in Matt. are about specific points in time, vs. 5 is about 70 AD, vs. 11 is about those Jupiter/Zeus type lovers who felt threatened and had the disciples killed, and vs. 24 is about THE actual False Prophet and A.C.

Trumpets were used to announce things in general.

Just to help your understaning, you said.........
"That is because the Seals are not judgments. God's symmetry always reveals these deeper truths, IMHO."

That is not the case my brother. The "SEAL" judgments are in fact judgments. They are 7 and the 7th seal is the set of 7 Trumpet judgments. The 1st 4 SEAL judgments overlap each over and the 5th is the Martyred saints that are affected by the 1st 4 judgments.
 
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