What causes confusion and abuse of Christian titles

[Major]

Now, or in the ‘60’s it’s’ p_gs!

You know what the truth is, and this is why we have a society so messed up today.

In the 50's or 60"s, if I had called a policeman a PIG, I would have never lived to face a judge.
My father would have whipped me to within an inch of my life and then my grandfather would have finished me.

That is a fact!!!!

 

[Dave F.]

We are called ‘children of God’, did we earn it?

No. God gave it to us. This is why I said you have to first give your respect.

 

[Major]

Some confusion occurs because the body of believers use titles differently or hold different views according regarding the offices to which the titles refer.

Upmost in my mind include such things as calling a respected evangelist a prophet or apostle. In many cases, this is meant as a simple honorific recognizing the work the man has done. In some churches, apostle has a much more specific meaning including the concept of apostolic succession since the time of Christ.

I hear you and understand that BUT doesn't that also suggest a certain level of Bible ignorance to use "Apostle or Prophet"????

 

[Major]

Things have changed, it used to be where the title was respected, not necessarily the person (he/she would have to earn it.
We are called ‘children of God’, did we earn it?

We are that because of a "relationship" and relationships are not earned at all.

 

[Major]

i never saw it.. but for one to say as a Christian they are not Holy is not scripture. we been sanctified being made holy which i m o is a work in progress i term at positional progressive ultimate .

A better word/thought would have been "SINLESS' instead of Holy in the classical Biblical sense.

You are correct in that The New Testament emphasizes the pursuit of holiness in this world and the final attainment of holiness in the world to come.

 

[bobinfaith]

Some confusion occurs because the body of believers use titles differently or hold different views according regarding the offices to which the titles refer. Upmost in my mind include such things as calling a respected evangelist a prophet or apostle. In many cases, this is meant as a simple honorific recognizing the work the man has done. In some churches, apostle has a much more specific meaning including the concept of apostolic succession since the time of Christ.

I hear you and understand that BUT doesn't that also suggest a certain level of Bible ignorance to use "Apostle or Prophet"????

Hello Siloam and Major;

Both your posts caught my attention. Are you saying you believe God's anointing of the Apostles and Prophets had their calling only during the time the Apostles were the original disciples, and who were "face to face" with Jesus during His 3 year mission? The Prophets were widely used by God during the Old and New Testaments.

If this is what your posts are saying then I agree with you.

In my argument the Apostles existed only during the Gospels and God revealed many things in the Bible concerning them. But today the title Apostle is erroneously misused in the church today, or for those who are "playing church." I had spoken to a brother back in 1989 who called himself an Apostle through ordination. 33 years later he loves the Lord (praise God) but his proclamation as an Apostle hasn't revealed anything.

Many believe Prophets still exist for God's purpose but I have seen way too many Christian individuals who proclaim they perform the duties of a Prophet. Personally, I have never witnessed a Prophet's revealing of duty but have heard more and more false claims of individuals, especially the "celebratory" minister who can't keep a truthful accountability of their yes yes and no no of their ministry.

Another one is First Lady, (Pastor's wife.) My wife serves as my partner as a pastor but she never accepted the title First Lady.

I could be wrong here. I've been wrong before. I believe these examples that I've experienced is a misuse and abuse of titles in the church and can definitely cause confusion to the believer.

God bless you, brothers.

 

[Dave F.]

I always thought an Apostle was someone who saw the risen Christ. Which is why Paul is an Apostle.

 

[bobinfaith]

I always thought an Apostle was someone who saw the risen Christ. Which is why Paul is an Apostle.

Hello Dave F.;

Amen, I agree. Let's not forget Paul.

God bless you, brother.

 

[forgiven61]

I always thought an Apostle was someone who saw the risen Christ. Which is why Paul is an Apostle.

yes but somewhere along the line man has picked up the tittle . certainly if a person earns a doc degree in his calling of preaching.. then we can honor has doc --- as respect and honor... but for the most i think BRO would be best

 

[Derek88]

Hello Dave F.;

Amen, I agree. Let's not forget Paul.

God bless you, brother.

The full Gospel of Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! We're still living in Bible days, according to what God just spoke here, and the five-fold ministry(1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers. that was taught for the perfecting of the saints has never ceased, and though some on this forum have taught that this has ceased and is no longer needed, they are very much incorrect, and that can be proven by scripture and by God moving in the same book of acts ways today!

Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. So the offices of all these 5 must be and is still in effect.

 

[Siloam]

Hello Siloam and Major;

Both your posts caught my attention. Are you saying you believe God's anointing of the Apostles and Prophets had their calling only during the time the Apostles were the original disciples, and who were "face to face" with Jesus during His 3 year mission? The Prophets were widely used by God during the Old and New Testaments.

If this is what your posts are saying then I agree with you.

In my argument the Apostles existed only during the Gospels and God revealed many things in the Bible concerning them. But today the title Apostle is erroneously misused in the church today, or for those who are "playing church." I had spoken to a brother back in 1989 who called himself an Apostle through ordination. 33 years later he loves the Lord (praise God) but his proclamation as an Apostle hasn't revealed anything.

Many believe Prophets still exist for God's purpose but I have seen way too many Christian individuals who proclaim they perform the duties of a Prophet. Personally, I have never witnessed a Prophet's revealing of duty but have heard more and more false claims of individuals, especially the "celebratory" minister who can't keep a truthful accountability of their yes yes and no no of their ministry.

Another one is First Lady, (Pastor's wife.) My wife serves as my partner as a pastor but she never accepted the title First Lady.

I could be wrong here. I've been wrong before. I believe these examples that I've experienced is a misuse and abuse of titles in the church and can definitely cause confusion to the believer.

God bless you, brothers.

My understanding of the _Biblical_ office of Apostle is from the requirements stated in Acts 1

Acts 1:21-22 (NASB)
21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—
22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Paul had a unique calling in Acts 9.

I am not a church history scholar, but I do not remember that the death of any of the apostles other than Judas necessitated a replacement, so it does not seem to me that this office was truly permanent, or even that there were always to be 12.

I know my Roman Catholic brothers do not see these things thus, but I don't suppose that they are troubled by what someone who styles himself as Siloam thinks.

Similarly, it appears to me that some protestant churches feel their leaders merit the title Apostle. If they mean Apostle in the same sense that the 12 + Matthias + Paul were apostles, I do not see how a contemporary believer could have accompanied our Lord from baptism thru resurrection. Again, I doubt that such brothers will spend time worrying what my assessment is.

However, I do not rule out that one may use 'apostle' in a more figurative sense to indicate something like a moving evangelist, someone to be listened to. I would not use the term that way myself.

 

[Derek88]

However, I do not rule out that one may use 'apostle' in a more figurative sense to indicate something like a moving evangelist, someone to be listened to. I would not use the term that way myself.

My understanding of the _Biblical_ office of Apostle is from the requirements stated in Acts 1

Acts 1:21-22 (NASB)
21 Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—
22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Paul had a unique calling in Acts 9.

I am not a church history scholar, but I do not remember that the death of any of the apostles other than Judas necessitated a replacement, so it does not seem to me that this office was truly permanent, or even that there were always to be 12.

I know my Roman Catholic brothers do not see these things thus, but I don't suppose that they are troubled by what someone who styles himself as Siloam thinks.

Similarly, it appears to me that some protestant churches feel their leaders merit the title Apostle. If they mean Apostle in the same sense that the 12 + Matthias + Paul were apostles, I do not see how a contemporary believer could have accompanied our Lord from baptism thru resurrection. Again, I doubt that such brothers will spend time worrying what my assessment is.

However, I do not rule out that one may use 'apostle' in a more figurative sense to indicate something like a moving evangelist, someone to be listened to. I would not use the term that way myself.

The full Gospel of Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! We're still living in Bible days, according to what God just spoke here, and the five-fold ministry(1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers. that was taught for the perfecting of the saints has never ceased, and though some on this forum have taught that this has ceased and is no longer needed, they are very much incorrect, and that can be proven by scripture and by God moving in the same book of acts ways today!

Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. So the offices of all these 5 must be and is still in effect.

Definition of apostle​

1: one sent on a mission: such as
the first prominent Christian missionary to a region.
2a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel, and we are a part of that new testament church are we not?

2a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system.

 

[Derek88]

A

The full Gospel of Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! We're still living in Bible days, according to what God just spoke here, and the five-fold ministry(1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers. that was taught for the perfecting of the saints has never ceased, and though some on this forum have taught that this has ceased and is no longer needed, they are very much incorrect, and that can be proven by scripture and by God moving in the same book of acts ways today!

Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. So the offices of all these 5 must be and is still in effect.

Definition of apostle​

1: one sent on a mission: such as
the first prominent Christian missionary to a region.
2a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel, and we are a part of that new testament church are we not?

2a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system.

One of many Biblical proofs that God still uses Prophets today is Jesus said in the latter end days in which we live now, there will come many false anointed Prophets arise ( like Joseph Smith who was off the word a million miles) who will deceive many. If there are false ones, then there are True ones as well!

 

[crossnote]

The full Gospel of Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever! We're still living in Bible days, according to what God just spoke here, and the five-fold ministry(1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers. that was taught for the perfecting of the saints has never ceased, and though some on this forum have taught that this has ceased and is no longer needed, they are very much incorrect, and that can be proven by scripture and by God moving in the same book of acts ways today!

Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. So the offices of all these 5 must be and is still in effect.

Who are the Prophets today?

 

[Derek88]

Who are the Prophets today?

What is the biblical definition of a prophet?

1 : someone who declares publicly a message that he or she believes has come from God. 2 : a person who prophesies the future and it comes to pass! a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.

Now I will agree with you that most so-called Prophets today are false and are just after money and fame,
but here is a True Word Prophet that was promised in the word and sent by God to us in our day.

William Branham

Brother, I will give you a tender and brotherly warning, please do not speak
anything negative against this Godly man that God has sent to this last generation
in the way of a True Word Prophet!

Please heed the word of God that says touch not mine anointed, and do my Prophets
no harm. It also says if a man prophesies and what he say's come to pass, then hear
that man. And if you speak one word against the work of the Holy Ghost, it will
never be forgiven! The pillar of fire you see above his head, was the same pillar of
fire that met Paul on the road to Damascus.

His God-sent and completely Bible-based ministry was the fulfillment of Malachi 4:5 and 6.
And of Rev. 10:7. This is the last day Elijah that was promised to our Laodicea end day,
to forerun the Second coming Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would venture to say, that most and probably all on your list of false teachers' prophet's ect.
are discerned correctly as being false and off the word, but please be very prayerful and considerate
and respectful with your words in judging this man of God.

Thank you and God Bless you!

 

[crossnote]

What is the biblical definition of a prophet?

1 : someone who declares publicly a message that he or she believes has come from God. 2 : a person who prophesies the future and it comes to pass! a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.

Now I will agree with you that most so-called Prophets today are false and are just after money and fame,
but here is a True Word Prophet that was promised in the word and sent by God to us in our day.

William Branham
View attachment 7857
Brother, I will give you a tender and brotherly warning, please do not speak
anything negative against this Godly man that God has sent to this last generation
in the way of a True Word Prophet!

Please heed the word of God that says touch not mine anointed, and do my Prophets
no harm. It also says if a man prophesies and what he say's come to pass, then hear
that man. And if you speak one word against the work of the Holy Ghost, it will
never be forgiven! The pillar of fire you see above his head, was the same pillar of
fire that met Paul on the road to Damascus.

His God-sent and completely Bible-based ministry was the fulfillment of Malachi 4:5 and 6.
And of Rev. 10:7. This is the last day Elijah that was promised to our Laodicea end day,
to forerun the Second coming Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would venture to say, that most and probably all on your list of false teachers' prophet's ect.
are discerned correctly as being false and off the word, but please be very prayerful and considerate
and respectful with your words in judging this man of God.

Thank you and God Bless you!

When the Prophets of old spoke, their word was as good as Scripture being the words of God. Would you say William Branham's words were as good as scripture when he prophesied?
Could you give an example of something Branham prophesied that rose to the level of Scripture?

 

[Derek88]

When the Prophets of old spoke, their word was as good as Scripture being the words of God. Would you say William Branham's words were as good as scripture when he prophesied?
Could you give an example of something Branham prophesied that rose to the level of Scripture?

My brother, thank you for being respectful! I could write you 10 plus pages of proof, that brother Branham was
one of the mightiest Prophets that there has ever been in the Bible other than our Lord Jesus. After you see what I'm going to show you, you will be obligated by scripture to look more into what I'm telling you, because the Bible says listen to the man whom Prophecies in my name and it comes to pass. There has never been a man of God, a Prophet of God since the Bible than that of brother Branham.

There were more miracles and supernatural signs from God in his life than were written in the whole Bible. Including many raised from the dead, healing of every kind, visions, and Prophesies that never failed. It's been said, that never before was there a man that had the Character of Jesus Christ than him.

This is another brother's writing of today's Elijah!

Have you ever read your Bible and wondered where is the God of Elijah called down the Pillar of Fire or raised up the dead? Why don’t we have prophets today like we read about in the Bible? Where are the miracles that were always present with every true servant of God? The Holy Scriptures certainly promise that we would have prophets today, so where are they? Did the hope of God sending a Message to the earth die two thousand years ago when the last verse of the Bible was written? Although many of the modern denominations would have you believe that the days of miracles is past and prophets are no longer needed, God HAS sent a man in these last days with THUS SAITH THE LORD, and yes, miracles followed his Message. Contained within the text of this book is an opportunity to read the words spoken by such a man, who not only preached the Bible from Genesis to Revelation but also demonstrated the power of Jesus Christ being the same yesterday, today and forever.

Here a couple of videos that will answer your questions on the Proof of a Biblical and Godly Prophet that brother Branham was. Your eyes would have to be completely blind to see that this not a Biblical Mighty Prophet. And if this little bit of info is not enough to show you, and you want more, I have many, many more proofs that will show you that he was one of the greatest Prophets that God ever used! Please reply after you watch these 2 videos, thank you.

One thing I'd like to add, The Lord was so close and with Brother Branham, that many, people who came against him and what was God was doing, were struck dead just like it happened when Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter and were killed by God, and like coming against Moses, where God killed them. So if that is not one proof among the vast amount, that this is like the Prophets, then show me someone who compares!

 

[crossnote]

My brother, thank you for being respectful! I could write you 10 plus pages of proof, that brother Branham was
one of the mightiest Prophets that there has ever been in the Bible other than our Lord Jesus. After you see what I'm going to show you, you will be obligated by scripture to look more into what I'm telling you, because the Bible says listen to the man whom Prophecies in my name and it comes to pass. There has never been a man of God, a Prophet of God since the Bible than that of brother Branham.

There were more miracles and supernatural signs from God in his life than were written in the whole Bible. Including many raised from the dead, healing of every kind, visions, and Prophesies that never failed. It's been said, that never before was there a man that had the Character of Jesus Christ than him.

This is another brother's writing of today's Elijah!

Have you ever read your Bible and wondered where is the God of Elijah called down the Pillar of Fire or raised up the dead? Why don’t we have prophets today like we read about in the Bible? Where are the miracles that were always present with every true servant of God? The Holy Scriptures certainly promise that we would have prophets today, so where are they? Did the hope of God sending a Message to the earth die two thousand years ago when the last verse of the Bible was written? Although many of the modern denominations would have you believe that the days of miracles is past and prophets are no longer needed, God HAS sent a man in these last days with THUS SAITH THE LORD, and yes, miracles followed his Message. Contained within the text of this book is an opportunity to read the words spoken by such a man, who not only preached the Bible from Genesis to Revelation but also demonstrated the power of Jesus Christ being the same yesterday, today and forever.

Here a couple of videos that will answer your questions on the Proof of a Biblical and Godly Prophet that brother Branham was. Your eyes would have to be completely blind to see that this not a Biblical Mighty Prophet. And if this little bit of info is not enough to show you, and you want more, I have many, many more proofs that will show you that he was one of the greatest Prophets that God ever used! Please reply after you watch these 2 videos, thank you.

One thing I'd like to add, The Lord was so close and with Brother Branham, that many, people who came against him and what was God was doing, were struck dead just like it happened when Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter and were killed by God, and like coming against Moses, where God killed them. So if that is not one proof among the vast amount, that this is like the Prophets, then show me someone who compares!

Derek88, I would only remind you of one of the Forum rules…

“ Rule 3.2c Any discussions about any individual, teacher, preacher, pastor, minister, evangelist, media personality, organization, etc., will be closely monitored. Any claims that a named person or organization teaches or supports false doctrine MUST be well documented. Unsubstantiated claims, rumors or hearsay will not be allowed. Any such posts or threads will be removed and a reminder, warning or ban issued as necessary.”

Beside it being a bit off topic..

“ Rule 2.3 Members starting threads on specific topics expect that the threads will stay essentially on topic. Any member, other than the person starting the thread, who takes a specific thread way off topic and derails the content of the thread will be given a friendly staff notice. A second derailment or continuation of the off topic direction by that member will result in a warning and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A third off topic hijacking by that member will result in a 1 week time out and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A fourth offense will result in a permanent ban and all posts by that member will be removed from CFS.“

I was probably a bit at fault for luring you in that direction, sorry.

 

[Major]

Hello Siloam and Major;

Both your posts caught my attention. Are you saying you believe God's anointing of the Apostles and Prophets had their calling only during the time the Apostles were the original disciples, and who were "face to face" with Jesus during His 3 year mission? The Prophets were widely used by God during the Old and New Testaments.

If this is what your posts are saying then I agree with you.

In my argument the Apostles existed only during the Gospels and God revealed many things in the Bible concerning them. But today the title Apostle is erroneously misused in the church today, or for those who are "playing church." I had spoken to a brother back in 1989 who called himself an Apostle through ordination. 33 years later he loves the Lord (praise God) but his proclamation as an Apostle hasn't revealed anything.

Many believe Prophets still exist for God's purpose but I have seen way too many Christian individuals who proclaim they perform the duties of a Prophet. Personally, I have never witnessed a Prophet's revealing of duty but have heard more and more false claims of individuals, especially the "celebratory" minister who can't keep a truthful accountability of their yes yes and no no of their ministry.

Another one is First Lady, (Pastor's wife.) My wife serves as my partner as a pastor but she never accepted the title First Lady.

I could be wrong here. I've been wrong before. I believe these examples that I've experienced is a misuse and abuse of titles in the church and can definitely cause confusion to the believer.

God bless you, brothers.

I can only speak for ME but YES! The Apostles were 12 men who God choose to spread the gospel and write the New Test.

YOU are not wrong brother. The Apostles had the same ability as did Jesus including raising the dead. When John died the office of Apostle ended as there is absolutely not one single Scripture that says anything about Apostolic Succession.

Today, those who WANT TO claim that they have the Sign Gifts, use the name of Apostle or Prophet for that reason.

 

[Pastor Mayende.]

What is the biblical definition of a prophet?

1 : someone who declares publicly a message that he or she believes has come from God. 2 : a person who prophesies the future and it comes to pass! a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.

Now I will agree with you that most so-called Prophets today are false and are just after money and fame,
but here is a True Word Prophet that was promised in the word and sent by God to us in our day.

William Branham
View attachment 7857
Brother, I will give you a tender and brotherly warning, please do not speak
anything negative against this Godly man that God has sent to this last generation
in the way of a True Word Prophet!

Please heed the word of God that says touch not mine anointed, and do my Prophets
no harm. It also says if a man prophesies and what he say's come to pass, then hear
that man. And if you speak one word against the work of the Holy Ghost, it will
never be forgiven! The pillar of fire you see above his head, was the same pillar of
fire that met Paul on the road to Damascus.

His God-sent and completely Bible-based ministry was the fulfillment of Malachi 4:5 and 6.
And of Rev. 10:7. This is the last day Elijah that was promised to our Laodicea end day,
to forerun the Second coming Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would venture to say, that most and probably all on your list of false teachers' prophet's ect.
are discerned correctly as being false and off the word, but please be very prayerful and considerate
and respectful with your words in judging this man of God.

Thank you and God Bless you!

Hello Derek88,
Let me ask you if I sit down and I think about something and I speak it up and it comes to pass, do I become a prophet?