God's Choosing in Contrast to Everything Else

[bobinfaith]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I used to ponder God's creation of the heavens, universe and the earth, and at some point He got around to creating us. I felt the former was more important than the latter but my growing understanding had changed. God considers us more precious in choosing us over the foundation that surrounds us and beyond.

Ephesians 1:4-5, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. 5 He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, - RSV

God choosing us who believe is like having a purpose given for our life. Despite the setbacks and disappoints that occur along our path, they do not thwart God's purpose in being there to carry us through it all.

He is also my Savior Jesus. Jesus is my Perfect Shepherd (Pastor) and Perfect Solution. That is a benefit to the Believer.

In Romans 5:20-21, 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - ESV

It's a roller coaster in the obedient and sinful life of a Christian. I misunderstood that during those times when my sin increased, God had His limits. Again, my growing understanding changed. God's grace is unlimited when He sees our repentant hearts; Jesus as our propitiation (to satisfy God's wrath ) is unlimited.

The contrast to everything else can easily turn our eyes and ears away from prayer and His inerrant Word. But when we fervently strive to seek our Creator and ask Him to guide us during our weakness back into the direction unto Him, we learn more and more how the Gospel seals us (His promises are guaranteed.)

Other's thoughts?

God bless you all.

 

[Prim90]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I used to ponder God's creation of the heavens, universe and the earth, and at some point He got around to creating us. I felt the former was more important than the latter but my growing understanding had changed. God considers us more precious in choosing us over the foundation that surrounds us and beyond.

Ephesians 1:4-5, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. 5 He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, - RSV

God choosing us who believe is like having a purpose given for our life. Despite the setbacks and disappoints that occur along our path, they do not thwart God's purpose in being there to carry us through, it all.

He is also my Savior Jesus. Jesus is my perfect Shepherd (Pastor) and Perfect Solution. That is a benefit to the Believer.

In Romans 5:20-21, 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - ESV

It's a roller coaster in the obedient and sinful life of a Christian. I misunderstood that during those times when my sin increased, God had His limits. Again, my growing understanding changed. God's grace is unlimited when He sees our repentant hearts; Jesus as our propitiation (to satisfy God's wrath ) is unlimited.

The contrast to everything else can easily turn our eyes and ears away from prayer and His inerrant Word. But when we fervently strive to seek our Creator and ask Him to guide us during our weakness back into the direction unto Him, we learn more and more how the Gospel seals us (His promises are guaranteed.)

Other's thoughts?

God bless you all.

Me not know how much sin. But where Bobs many sins did increase Gods Grace did surely abound it not matter how much sin. For the depths of Gods forgiveness is deeper than the deepest sea. Yes the God chose us and we not him. We be brought at great price paid for in full up on a cross one Friday. There be no final boundaries even for the Sinner Bob : )

 

[BibleLover]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I used to ponder God's creation of the heavens, universe and the earth, and at some point He got around to creating us. I felt the former was more important than the latter but my growing understanding had changed. God considers us more precious in choosing us over the foundation that surrounds us and beyond.

Ephesians 1:4-5, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. 5 He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, - RSV

God choosing us who believe is like having a purpose given for our life. Despite the setbacks and disappoints that occur along our path, they do not thwart God's purpose in being there to carry us through, it all.

He is also my Savior Jesus. Jesus is my perfect Shepherd (Pastor) and Perfect Solution. That is a benefit to the Believer.

In Romans 5:20-21, 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - ESV

It's a roller coaster in the obedient and sinful life of a Christian. I misunderstood that during those times when my sin increased, God had His limits. Again, my growing understanding changed. God's grace is unlimited when He sees our repentant hearts; Jesus as our propitiation (to satisfy God's wrath ) is unlimited.

The contrast to everything else can easily turn our eyes and ears away from prayer and His inerrant Word. But when we fervently strive to seek our Creator and ask Him to guide us during our weakness back into the direction unto Him, we learn more and more how the Gospel seals us (His promises are guaranteed.)

Other's thoughts?

God bless you all.

I used to stress a lot about my walk with God. I was brought up in a church where you'd lose your salvation every time you sinned and had to get re-saved by confessing the sin each time. I broke free of such legalistic enslavement when I began to understand the reality of Romans chapter 8. Now I am free just to love and obey God, which is much easier when I remember what He did for me. If I commit to God unconditionally, follow the exhortations of 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, make my aim to follow Romans 12:1-2, and stay alert for the Spirit's guidance, then following the will of God and growing in grace become a way of life I live each day without effort.

 

[bobinfaith]

For the depths of God's forgiveness is deeper than the deepest sea.

I like that, Prim90. Many of us read the Scriptures of God's unconditional love but it doesn't sink in. I find that forgiving those who have trespassed against us in the vilest way can bring us to a more understanding in our relationship with God and his abounding grace over us.

God bless you, Prim90.

 

[bobinfaith]

I used to stress a lot about my walk with God. I was brought up in a church where you'd lose your salvation every time you sinned and had to get re-saved by confessing the sin each time. I broke free of such legalistic enslavement when I began to understand the reality of Romans chapter 8. Now I am free just to love and obey God, which is much easier when I remember what He did for me. If I commit to God unconditionally, follow the exhortations of 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, make my aim to follow Romans 12:1-2, and stay alert for the Spirit's guidance, then following the will of God and growing in grace become a way of life I live each day without effort.

Good morning, BibleLover;

Would you agree we all have experienced heavy works for forgiveness? I don't know where we'd be if it wasn't for the Scriptures that teaches us otherwise.

God bless you.

 

[drequeen]

I loved reading this first thing this morning. Great way to start the day. Thank you for sharing that. God bless

 

[synthplayer]

Sometimes I wonder if we "understand" God through a lens made by our earthly fathers. Perhaps unconsciously we imagine Him to have personality traits similar to our fathers. Thanks for your post, Bob. It was just what I needed this afternoon.

 

[Musicmaster]

I used to stress a lot about my walk with God. I was brought up in a church where you'd lose your salvation every time you sinned and had to get re-saved by confessing the sin each time. I broke free of such legalistic enslavement when I began to understand the reality of Romans chapter 8. Now I am free just to love and obey God, which is much easier when I remember what He did for me. If I commit to God unconditionally, follow the exhortations of 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, make my aim to follow Romans 12:1-2, and stay alert for the Spirit's guidance, then following the will of God and growing in grace become a way of life I live each day without effort.

If I had to be baptized and saved all over again each time I sinned, I'd be wrinkled from water-logging of my epidermis, and possibly even drowned, and never get anything done while in prayer every few minutes begging for forgiveness, and therefore never seeing the light of day again...

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

I used to stress a lot about my walk with God. I was brought up in a church where you'd lose your salvation every time you sinned and had to get re-saved by confessing the sin each time. I broke free of such legalistic enslavement when I began to understand the reality of Romans chapter 8. Now I am free just to love and obey God, which is much easier when I remember what He did for me. If I commit to God unconditionally, follow the exhortations of 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, make my aim to follow Romans 12:1-2, and stay alert for the Spirit's guidance, then following the will of God and growing in grace become a way of life I live each day without effort.

If I had to be baptized and saved all over again each time I sinned, I'd be wrinkled from water-logging of my epidermis, and possibly even drowned, and never get anything done while in prayer every few minutes begging for forgiveness, and therefore never seeing the light of day again...

MM

Hello forgiven and Musicmaster;

May I ask? From reading your many, many posts, these two caught my attention and I wanted to ask, why would you need to be baptized and saved all over again, or receive salvation all over again every time you sinned?

You're both seasoned Christians and have a grasp of the Bible, therefore, I could see you both going to your former Pastor and discussing anything that may not fall in align with the Scriptures.

Are Pastors, in your views, unqualified to shepherd the Churches in these times, or just the ones you both attended? I hear more about problems with a member's former Church but no mention whether they discussed it and sought resolve with their Pastor.

I've had my share of questionable practices in the Church as a member but when I was single or later married, I asked straight up questions or concerns to my former Pastor(s). At times it got heated and escalated, but at least we talked about it.

Granted, we didn't practice the internet then, but today I still feel "face to face" with the Pastor and Church he shepherds is the best testimony.

The Church we are attending going on two years doesn't have everything in place that concerns me but I don't hesitate to talk to the leaders, ask questions, how did they arrive at their autonomy or doctrine and share my concerns of comments. This helps me confirm God's calling whether we are going to the Church He wants us to serve and what to pray for.

In the Church and in Scripture, there is always a problem with people and sin. That's a given. But people and sin does not have the last word. God does, and it's His Choosing in Contrast to everything else.

God bless you, brothers.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello BibleLover and Musicmaster;

May I ask? From reading your many, many posts, these two caught my attention and I wanted to ask, why would you need to be baptized and saved all over again, or receive salvation all over again every time you sinned?

You're both seasoned Christians and have a grasp of the Bible, therefore, I could see you both going to your former Pastor and discussing anything that may not fall in align with the Scriptures.

Are Pastors, in your views, unqualified to shepherd the Churches in these times, or the ones you both attended? I hear more about problems with a member's former Church but no mention whether they discussed it and sought resolve with their Pastor.

I've had my share of questionable practices in the Church as a member but when I was single or later married, I asked straight up questions or concerns to my former Pastor(s). At times it got heated and escalated, but at least we talked about it.

Granted, we didn't practice the internet then, but today I still feel "face to face" with the Pastor and Church he shepherds is the best testimony.

The Church we are attending going on two years doesn't have everything in place that concerns me but I don't hesitate to talk to the leaders, ask questions, how did they arrive at their autonomy or doctrine and share my concerns of comments. This helps me confirm God's calling whether we are going to the Church He wants us to serve and what to pray for.

In the Church and in Scripture, there is always a problem with people and sin. That's a given. But people and sin does not have the last word. God does, and it's His Choosing in Contrast to everything else.

God bless you, brothers.

Um, I'm not sure how you arrived at the idea I was talking about some church or pastor, or even past experience. The topic had to do with losing salvation at the very moment of each sin committed, on each day.

Please elaborate on the parallel you seem to have envisioned in what I said, because you lost me on this one.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Um, I'm not sure how you arrived at the idea I was talking about some church or pastor, or even past experience. The topic had to do with losing salvation at the very moment of each sin committed, on each day.

Please elaborate on the parallel you seem to have envisioned in what I said, because you lost me on this one.

MM

Hello, MM;

I feel you responded to BibleLover's post, correct? No parallel or envision on my part, just my question to what you posted.

My elaboration is why would you make such a statement because you are a disciplined discipline who knows the Word, therefore, your statement is something that should not be practiced in the Church.

Unless it's a church that is not anointed and someone has experienced this unbiblical practice.

God bless you, MM.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello, MM;

I feel you responded to BibleLover's post, correct? No parallel or envision on my part, just my question to what you posted.

My elaboration is why would you make such a statement because you are a disciplined discipline who knows the Word, therefore, your statement is something that should not be practiced in the Church.

Unless it's a church that is not anointed and someone has experienced this unbiblical practice.

God bless you, MM.

Here's what I said:

"If I had to be baptized and saved all over again each time I sinned, I'd be wrinkled from water-logging of my epidermis, and possibly even drowned, and never get anything done while in prayer every few minutes begging for forgiveness, and therefore never seeing the light of day again..."

I'm not sure how much I can say to clarify what it says, but the main item is "If". IF I had to be baptized, or rather, REbaptized every time I sinned... Do you see the difference? If he mentioned some specific church, I wasn't focused on that. I'm simply not a follower of the idea of REbaptism and REpeating the "sinner's prayer" every time I sin. We all sin daily, and the sufficiency of Christ's Blood is such that we don't have to go through those initial steps each day, several times a day. So, I'm not sure where you see some departure from biblical cohesiveness. It was only a hypothetical, not a statement of faith on my part.

So, I remain confused about your meaning.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No instruction to have to go through anything else to receive forgiveness. We don't have to beg nor ask for forgiveness, but simply confess, unlike having some guy in religious dress who thinks he's calling down some Deity each day for re-sacrifice or something like that. No.

I did not mean for all the elements of his post to be superimposed over onto what I said.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Here's what I said:

"If I had to be baptized and saved all over again each time I sinned, I'd be wrinkled from water-logging of my epidermis, and possibly even drowned, and never get anything done while in prayer every few minutes begging for forgiveness, and therefore never seeing the light of day again..."

I'm not sure how much I can say to clarify what it says, but the main item is "If". IF I had to be baptized, or rather, REbaptized every time I sinned... Do you see the difference? If he mentioned some specific church, I wasn't focused on that. I'm simply not a follower of the idea of REbaptism and REpeating the "sinner's prayer" every time I sin. We all sin daily, and the sufficiency of Christ's Blood is such that we don't have to go through those initial steps each day, several times a day. So, I'm not sure where you see some departure from biblical cohesiveness. It was only a hypothetical, not a statement of faith on my part. So, I remain confused about your meaning. I did not mean for all the elements of his post to be superimposed over onto what I said.
MM

Hello, Musicmaster;

I was led to author this thread with reason, so when I saw your post it led me to ask you my question. By your statement that I highlighted in blue answered my question. I'm also not a follower of that idealism.

As far as your Church experience and former Pastors, I was merely uplifting you and BibleLover and suggesting if you came across this experience I know you both would have addressed this with your Pastor.

You don't need to re-clarify, explain or suggest some departure from Biblical cohesiveness or hypothetical or remain confused, brother.

I always attempt to understand when I read other's posts of certain topics to my threads and at times I wonder why or what led them to post and will ask them. It helps me to understand and learn the reason for someone's post be it their personal learning, Church experience, relationships, etc...I feel this is reasonable.

God bless you, MM.

 

[BibleLover]

Hello forgiven and Musicmaster;

May I ask? From reading your many, many posts, these two caught my attention and I wanted to ask, why would you need to be baptized and saved all over again, or receive salvation all over again every time you sinned?

You're both seasoned Christians and have a grasp of the Bible, therefore, I could see you both going to your former Pastor and discussing anything that may not fall in align with the Scriptures.

Are Pastors, in your views, unqualified to shepherd the Churches in these times, or just the ones you both attended? I hear more about problems with a member's former Church but no mention whether they discussed it and sought resolve with their Pastor.

I've had my share of questionable practices in the Church as a member but when I was single or later married, I asked straight up questions or concerns to my former Pastor(s). At times it got heated and escalated, but at least we talked about it.

Granted, we didn't practice the internet then, but today I still feel "face to face" with the Pastor and Church he shepherds is the best testimony.

The Church we are attending going on two years doesn't have everything in place that concerns me but I don't hesitate to talk to the leaders, ask questions, how did they arrive at their autonomy or doctrine and share my concerns of comments. This helps me confirm God's calling whether we are going to the Church He wants us to serve and what to pray for.

In the Church and in Scripture, there is always a problem with people and sin. That's a given. But people and sin does not have the last word. God does, and it's His Choosing in Contrast to everything else.

God bless you, brothers.

I didn't speak to the pastor; I was abysmally ignorant of theology then. The church was strongly Arminian Pentecostal with heavy emphasis on personal holiness. We didn't get re-baptized, but if we sinned, until we got the chance to pray for forgiveness, we were hell-bound, and should we get into a car wreck (for example) before we uttered such a prayer, we would go straight to hell. Apparently, to that denomination, the blood of Jesus was tied to the condition of our behavior. Hank Williams belonged to such a church and the tortured life he lived, as reflected in his music, was the result of an upbringing in those conditions. When I left home, I broke all ties with religion for a number of years because such a religious experience is very tedious, so I resigned myself to hell. However, things changed when I was invited to a church (not mentioning the denomination, but John Bunyan was a leader in that denomination) where I found my way back to God. Later, when I attended Bible college and seminary did I learn where that denomination had gone wrong.

 

[bobinfaith]

I didn't speak to the pastor; I was abysmally ignorant of theology then. The church was strongly Arminian Pentecostal with heavy emphasis on personal holiness. We didn't get re-baptized, but if we sinned, until we got the chance to pray for forgiveness, we were hell-bound, and should we get into a car wreck (for example) before we uttered such a prayer, we would go straight to hell. Apparently, to that denomination, the blood of Jesus was tied to the condition of our behavior. Hank Williams belonged to such a church and the tortured life he lived, as reflected in his music, was the result of an upbringing in those conditions. When I left home, I broke all ties with religion for a number of years because such a religious experience is very tedious, so I resigned myself to hell. However, things changed when I was invited to a church (not mentioning the denomination, but John Bunyan was a leader in that denomination) where I found my way back to God. Later, when I attended Bible college and seminary did I learn where that denomination had gone wrong.

Good morning, BibleLover;

I understand and thank you for sharing. Years ago we experienced an employee who shared with me that he was with Iglesia Ni Cristo. The men sat on the left of the pews and the women sat on the right. He got reprimanded for something that happened in the choir and was given a penance. This church emphasized deeply on penance with a set of steps taken to receive forgiveness. But when they sinned again they had to start the process all over again.

He was about 21 years year and wanted to experience God and continued searching until the Lord called him to a Christian Church where he learned for the first time about Christ as the Son of God and going to the cross.

God bless you, BibleLover.

 

[Prim90]

Hello, Musicmaster;

I was led to author this thread with reason, so when I saw your post it led me to ask you my question. By your statement that I highlighted in blue answered my question. I'm also not a follower of that idealism.

As far as your Church experience and former Pastors, I was merely uplifting you and BibleLover and suggesting if you came across this experience I know you both would have addressed this with your Pastor.

You don't need to re-clarify, explain or suggest some departure from Biblical cohesiveness or hypothetical or remain confused, brother.

I always attempt to understand when I read other's posts of certain topics to my threads and at times I wonder why or what led them to post and will ask them. It helps me to understand and learn the reason for someone's post be it their personal learning, Church experience, relationships, etc...I feel this is reasonable.

God bless you, MM.

Bob sometimes the waters be muddled when some over zealous ones do without distinction classify anyone wearing religious dress in a negative sense. It be like throwing the entirety of traditional Christianity out with the bath water. Or like throwing the baby out with the bath water some would say. I can understand your concern as yes there be such a thing as church authority.

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob sometimes the waters be muddled when some over zealous ones do without distinction classify anyone wearing religious dress in a negative sense. It be like throwing the entirety of traditional Christianity out with the bath water. Or like throwing the baby out with the bath water some would say. I can understand your concern as yes there be such a thing as church authority.

Hello Prim90;

It seems you always post at the right time. I'm blessed by your steady participation, boldness in sharing your convictions and views always Christ centered.

God bless you, Prim90, and your entire family.

 

[Prim90]

 

[Musicmaster]

Bob sometimes the waters be muddled when some over zealous ones do without distinction classify anyone wearing religious dress in a negative sense. It be like throwing the entirety of traditional Christianity out with the bath water. Or like throwing the baby out with the bath water some would say. I can understand your concern as yes there be such a thing as church authority.

Perhaps Jesus would say that it's not the religious trappings one is wearing, but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him...

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Perhaps Jesus would say that it's not the religious trappings one is wearing, but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him...

MM

Good morning, Musicmaster;

Jesus sees it from all sides. He points to the outer cup but especially the inner up by His teaching in Matthew 23:25-26 and Luke 11:39-40.

The world focuses on the outside, our appearance and first impressions that matter, whereas the conscious believer asks God to search their inner cup or heart as David did in Psalm 139:23-24.

God doesn't choose by appearance (religious leaders beware) but looks at the heart reference 1 Samuel 6:7.

God bless you, MM.