Is Acceptance A "Work" of Obedience

It's an accomplished work, if we can confess Him Lord Jesus.

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
In God's word and kingdom, it's all about what faith accomplishes, rather than just what is believed.

Jas 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
We naturally 'accept' what we hear, like natural ground accepting seed thrown onto it. But with the truth, if we do not act on it, then it does us no good. That includes only agreeing something is true. We must hear and believe unto salvation by doing the truth, not just accepting it alone.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Now, if it is an accomplished "work"......dosen't that detract from Ephesians 2:8-9 where Paul says that our salvation is a gift we have no part in.

Ephesians 2:8-9.......
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Would you agree that Our salvation cannot be achieved by any religious works but
only through God’s merciful intervention.

Romans 6:23 adds that: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
When we continue reading Ephesians 2 we see that Paul completes his thought in Ephesians 2:10: ........
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

It seems to me that This verse ties everything together. We’re not saved by works, but we’re saved for them.
Faith and works go hand in hand, but faith comes 1st like the roots and fruit of a tree. Without roots, there’s no life. Without fruit, the tree appears dead, but the roots come 1st then the tree grows.
 
It seems to me that This verse ties everything together. We’re not saved by works, but we’re saved for them.
YES.... YES.... YES..... Our deep LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST renders us at HIS SERVICE so that we can SHARE the GOOD NEWS... bringing HIS LIGHT to a DARK WORLD.

I don't think about SIN on a daily basis.... I think about JESUS.... HOW BEAUTIFUL... HOW MARVELOUS... HOW PRECIOUS.... HE IS.... and then one thought bounces to another.... HIS ATTRIBUTES.... the I AM's of GOD. THESE thoughts keep me FULL and FILLED with PEACE and GREAT JOY..... I don't understand why certain Christians have a problem with this.

I would think that the ANSWER of being in a state of continuous ADORATION of GOD is what DELIGHTS HIM. The choosing of PRAISING... THANKING and BELIEVING in a GOD that we cannot YET see but choose to ADORE..... THAT has to amount to something in the eyes of GOD. That is how I live my life.

DO I still sin??? ABSOLUTELY... and to say otherwise would in itself be a sin.... Did He die for ALL my sins... past... present and future??? ABSOLUTELY HE DID. My sins however are LESS and LESS as I get older and more connected to the HEART of FATHER.

I honestly do NOT understand how some Christians can live in the UNCERTAINTY of their status of SALVATION. FOR me.... it wasn't until GOD spoke to my spirit and CONFIRMED and ASSURED that I am HIS.... I belong to HIM.... I was PURCHASED at GREAT COST by the BLOOD of HIS SON. WOW. THAT is OUTRAGEOUS GRACE.

BE FREE..... CHRIST HAS SET YOU FREE..... HE has purchased YOU.... as a BELIEVER.... YOU have PERMISSION to LIVE with PEACE and JOY. It is this REST... and SECURITY that allows a BELIEVER to DO those GOOD WORKS.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


AND..... most of this post was OFF-topic. HAHA
 
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YES.... YES.... YES..... Our deep LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST renders us at HIS SERVICE so that we can SHARE the GOOD NEWS... bringing HIS LIGHT to a DARK WORLD.

I don't think about SIN on a daily basis.... I think about JESUS.... HOW BEAUTIFUL... HOW MARVELOUS... HOW PRECIOUS.... HE IS.... and then one thought bounces to another.... HIS ATTRIBUTES.... the I AM's of GOD. THESE thoughts keep me FULL and FILLED with PEACE and GREAT JOY..... I don't understand why certain Christians have a problem with this.

I would think that the ANSWER of being in a state of continuous ADORATION of GOD is what DELIGHTS HIM. The choosing of PRAISING... THANKING and BELIEVING in a GOD that we cannot YET see but choose to ADORE..... THAT has to amount to something in the eyes of GOD. That is how I live my life.

DO I still sin??? ABSOLUTELY... and to say otherwise would in itself be a sin.... Did He die for ALL my sins... past... present and future??? ABSOLUTELY HE DID. My sins however are LESS and LESS as I get older and more connected to the HEART of FATHER.

I honestly do NOT understand how some Christians can live in the UNCERTAINTY of their status of SALVATION. FOR me.... it wasn't until GOD spoke to my spirit and CONFIRMED and ASSURED that I am HIS.... I belong to HIM.... I was PURCHASED at GREAT COST by the BLOOD of HIS SON. WOW. THAT is OUTRAGEOUS GRACE.

BE FREE..... CHRIST HAS SET YOU FREE..... HE has purchased YOU.... as a BELIEVER.... YOU have PERMISSION to LIVE with PEACE and JOY. It is this REST... and SECURITY that allows a BELIEVER to DO those GOOD WORKS.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


AND..... most of this post was OFF-topic. HAHA
The point sister is that sin does not dominate you or control you. You control you!

,“For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” ,.......Romans 6:14.
 
Now, if it is an accomplished "work"......dosen't that detract from Ephesians 2:8-9 where Paul says that our salvation is a gift we have no part in.

Ephesians 2:8-9.......
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Would you agree that Our salvation cannot be achieved by any religious works but only through God’s merciful intervention.

Romans 6:23 adds that: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
When we continue reading Ephesians 2 we see that Paul completes his thought in Ephesians 2:10: ........
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

It seems to me that This verse ties everything together. We’re not saved by works, but we’re saved for them.
Faith and works go hand in hand, but faith comes 1st like the roots and fruit of a tree. Without roots, there’s no life. Without fruit, the tree appears dead, but the roots come 1st then the tree grows.
The point sister is that sin does not dominate you or control you. You control you!

,“For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” ,.......Romans 6:14.
Dear Major,

Thank you so much for raising such a wonderful and profound topic! It truly gives us much to ponder.

Regarding your message and the connection you drew with Ephesians 2:8-9, I would also like to add that I deeply resonate with the sentiment you expressed.

Stepping aside from the main topic for a moment, I can say from my own experience that it happens so easily: when a person consistently does good deeds for a certain period, pride can creep in. And if this isn't stopped at some point, this small pride will grow into a great arrogance, leading to good works being done specifically to receive praise and gratify one's inner ego. And although everything might have started correctly, in the end, such a person, instead of moving away from sin, sinks even deeper into it. Over time, pride will make a person think that it is their good deeds that lead them to salvation. Your words from Ephesians beautifully illustrate the point that we should not boast about the good we do, and even more so, we shouldn't cultivate pride by attributing those merits to ourselves. After all, if salvation were our own merit, and not a gift from God, then there would be no justice in salvation – a person would simply do good deeds throughout their life, place themselves on a conditional pedestal of honor, actually fostering the idea that they are better than others, and stop humbling themselves...

Your topic, Major, has provided an opportunity for deep reflection on what seems like a simple question, yet holds a profound essence. Thank you for that!

And regarding your words about sin not having dominion over us in Romans 6:14, I actually read that particular verse around 5 this morning, and it truly set a positive tone for my entire day! Thank you for sharing that powerful reminder.

Sincerely,
Yurii
 
Dear Major,

Thank you so much for raising such a wonderful and profound topic! It truly gives us much to ponder.

Regarding your message and the connection you drew with Ephesians 2:8-9, I would also like to add that I deeply resonate with the sentiment you expressed.

Stepping aside from the main topic for a moment, I can say from my own experience that it happens so easily: when a person consistently does good deeds for a certain period, pride can creep in. And if this isn't stopped at some point, this small pride will grow into a great arrogance, leading to good works being done specifically to receive praise and gratify one's inner ego. And although everything might have started correctly, in the end, such a person, instead of moving away from sin, sinks even deeper into it. Over time, pride will make a person think that it is their good deeds that lead them to salvation. Your words from Ephesians beautifully illustrate the point that we should not boast about the good we do, and even more so, we shouldn't cultivate pride by attributing those merits to ourselves. After all, if salvation were our own merit, and not a gift from God, then there would be no justice in salvation – a person would simply do good deeds throughout their life, place themselves on a conditional pedestal of honor, actually fostering the idea that they are better than others, and stop humbling themselves...

Your topic, Major, has provided an opportunity for deep reflection on what seems like a simple question, yet holds a profound essence. Thank you for that!

And regarding your words about sin not having dominion over us in Romans 6:14, I actually read that particular verse around 5 this morning, and it truly set a positive tone for my entire day! Thank you for sharing that powerful reminder.

Sincerely,
Yurii
Wow. Truely you have a gift of complimentary expression! Thank you for the kind and loving words.

At this stage of my life, I am committed to correctly teaching the Word of God and your acceptance is a real blessing!
 
YES.... YES.... YES..... Our deep LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST renders us at HIS SERVICE so that we can SHARE the GOOD NEWS... bringing HIS LIGHT to a DARK WORLD.

I don't think about SIN on a daily basis.... I think about JESUS.... HOW BEAUTIFUL... HOW MARVELOUS... HOW PRECIOUS.... HE IS.... and then one thought bounces to another.... HIS ATTRIBUTES.... the I AM's of GOD. THESE thoughts keep me FULL and FILLED with PEACE and GREAT JOY..... I don't understand why certain Christians have a problem with this.

I would think that the ANSWER of being in a state of continuous ADORATION of GOD is what DELIGHTS HIM. The choosing of PRAISING... THANKING and BELIEVING in a GOD that we cannot YET see but choose to ADORE..... THAT has to amount to something in the eyes of GOD. That is how I live my life.

DO I still sin??? ABSOLUTELY... and to say otherwise would in itself be a sin.... Did He die for ALL my sins... past... present and future??? ABSOLUTELY HE DID. My sins however are LESS and LESS as I get older and more connected to the HEART of FATHER.

I honestly do NOT understand how some Christians can live in the UNCERTAINTY of their status of SALVATION. FOR me.... it wasn't until GOD spoke to my spirit and CONFIRMED and ASSURED that I am HIS.... I belong to HIM.... I was PURCHASED at GREAT COST by the BLOOD of HIS SON. WOW. THAT is OUTRAGEOUS GRACE.

BE FREE..... CHRIST HAS SET YOU FREE..... HE has purchased YOU.... as a BELIEVER.... YOU have PERMISSION to LIVE with PEACE and JOY. It is this REST... and SECURITY that allows a BELIEVER to DO those GOOD WORKS.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


AND..... most of this post was OFF-topic. HAHA
Nothing that is placed upon your heart by God is off topic!

You said.........
"I honestly do NOT understand how some Christians can live in the UNCERTAINTY of their status of SALVATION."

There is a whole denomination of Pentecostal believers who do not have any security of salvation and believe that they have to b=get saved over and over again. I have never understood how anyone can believe that God is powerful enough to save them but........is not powerful enough to keep them saved.

How one live like that is totally beyond my comprehension.
 
Godhelpus - Just a friendly reminder from the CFS Staff -

Please review Forum Rules 2.1 and 3.1 before you continue posting.

As a new member, you may not be fully aware yet about our Forum Rules and the Friendly atmosphere that we have here.

CFS is unlike other forums that allows somewhat negative personal comments about others and their Belief System.

Thank you for your cooperation and now this thread can continue with Forum Rules in mind.



`
It would help greatly for a moderator to show exactly how a rule is violated, since their interpretation of the rules is all that matters on their site.

Rule 2.1 Common courtesy and civil dialogue is expected from all participants. Common courtesy is a generally understood concept and too broad to fully define here. In short, if you have doubt on whether you should say something, DON'T!

Rule 3.1 Members may not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, demeaning, threatening, or insulting to any person or group; repeated in many posting areas (spam); or otherwise violates any laws. Such posts will be deleted and the Member warned or banned.

For instance, I find this a discourteous implication, that I have been in any way obscene, insulting, or threatening, without any explanation how.

Does this fair response qualify as violating Rule 2.1 by being 'confrontational'?

I.e. courtesy, civility, insulting, and threatening should be more clearly defined by a rule moderator, through examples, not just by personal implication.

Thank you for your courtesy in this matter as we go forward.
 
I am SO GLAD that you have spoken Godhelpus ... I have been praying that you would return... as I thought perhaps you had simply decided NOT to return.

If I may.... I think I am the one who took offence to your "tone" at the very beginning of our correspondence.

I would love for this discussion to continue in a fruitful manner.... NO damage done...

The most difficult task when all we have is WRITTEN word... is to try to ensure that we are communicating EFFECTIVELY.

Please continue to post your thoughts.... I think the point that was made is that these forums are NOT like many others.
WE actually LOVE each other... and we care about each other.

GOD BLESS YOU.... I am so HAPPY that you have returned.
 
Godhelpus, you asked for an example. This is from your post #16...

This seems confrontational, I have also highlighted your comments and answered them with the same color.

"So far as keeping to lighter topics, I can only suggest that if you're going to preach your faith to others, then if we do the same with ours, don't be too hasty to jump to unnecessary conclusions, just because we may disagree. I'm not only not a legalist, but was delivered by Jesus from legalism infecting the heart, much the same way as Saul of Tarsus.

It appears you are simply one of the Christians, who think our belief in Jesus Christ means that we won't be judged by our works the same as everyone else. And so, the fear of the Lord is shunned in the name of 'outrageous' grace. As you say, works almost becomes a 'bad' word to your faith."

She never suggested that you were.

The judgement for Christians is not the same as everyone else. The judgement seat of Christ is about what we have done for Him since we accepted His gift of salvation, not our sins as those have already been dealt with at the cross. Where as the Great white throne judgement is about their sins. There are many people who will go through this judgement and will be cast into the lake of fire.

Also Jesus died once for all. He took away the sins of the world so that whosoever believeth in Him shall receive everlasting life. We do not stop sinning and become perfect after accepting Jesus as our savior, we do the best we can to become like Him. You asked how we could be forgiven for future sins and I answer you with all my sins were future when Jesus died, therefore, my future sins are forgiven by the same grace that I received at the moment I accepted His gift of salvation.

This is just me showing you what was the reason for the rules being posted. I am bringing this to you in God's love as a brother in Christ.
 
Now, if it is an accomplished "work"......dosen't that detract from Ephesians 2:8-9 where Paul says that our salvation is a gift we have no part in.
So, you only question if confessing Jesus is a work or not? And if the Bible says our words are also works, then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?

Here are some Scriptures to look at:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.


Isn't it the case that lying, false witnessing, heresies, profaneness, etc... are works of the flesh, the same as theft, drunkenness, murders, etc...?

I don't believe the proper question is whether words are works, but rather whose work is being done by confessing the Lord Jesus Christ from the heart. Man's own work, or the Spirit's?

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Even as calling Jesus cursed is an accursed work of man, then even more so calling Jesus the Lord is a blessed work of the Spirit of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9.......
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Would you agree that Our salvation cannot be achieved by any religious works but only through God’s merciful intervention.
Vey true. And so who can boast for the act of confessing our faith in the Lord Jesus? Whose work is it?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Not our own work, but God's by the faith of His Son. And so, where is boasting? Who gets the glory for the confession of faith by grace?

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

By the law of faith, boasting of any work we do through our faith toward God, is excluded, because it is by grace and not by our own will and power alone.



Romans 6:23 adds that: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
When we continue reading Ephesians 2 we see that Paul completes his thought in Ephesians 2:10: ........
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

It seems to me that This verse ties everything together. We’re not saved by works, but we’re saved for them.
Faith and works go hand in hand,
Exactly. True again. And so, with God, His faith and work is not an order of merit and time in our salvation by Himself.

So long as we continue to understand that what we believe and do goes hand in hand with God, then only His Son gets the glory.

 
There is a whole denomination of Pentecostal believers who do not have any security of salvation
its in every denominations in fact some Baptist you mention the word eternal and then place the word security with it.. you have a major frown then we have some Baptist that holds to that still lives like the devil but yet professes salvation ...john the baptist said it best in Mathew 3 “Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:” there should be some fruit that shows the change .. i realize i opened up a can of worm .. this will crop like hot coal in a bare hand
 
its in every denominations in fact some Baptist you mention the word eternal and then place the word security with it.. you have a major frown then we have some Baptist that holds to that still lives like the devil but yet professes salvation ...john the baptist said it best in Mathew 3 “Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:” there should be some fruit that shows the change .. i realize i opened up a can of worm .. this will crop like hot coal in a bare hand
Every Christian group/denomination contains a mix of wheat and tares. If we personally know a tare, it's better to pray for them than to act judgmentally toward them.
 
So, you only question if confessing Jesus is a work or not? And if the Bible says our words are also works, then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?

Here are some Scriptures to look at:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.


Isn't it the case that lying, false witnessing, heresies, profaneness, etc... are works of the flesh, the same as theft, drunkenness, murders, etc...?

I don't believe the proper question is whether words are works, but rather whose work is being done by confessing the Lord Jesus Christ from the heart. Man's own work, or the Spirit's?

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Even as calling Jesus cursed is an accursed work of man, then even more so calling Jesus the Lord is a blessed work of the Spirit of grace.


Vey true. And so who can boast for the act of confessing our faith in the Lord Jesus? Whose work is it?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Not our own work, but God's by the faith of His Son. And so, where is boasting? Who gets the glory for the confession of faith by grace?

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

By the law of faith, boasting of any work we do through our faith toward God, is excluded, because it is by grace and not by our own will and power alone.




Exactly. True again. And so, with God, His faith and work is not an order of merit and time in our salvation by Himself.

So long as we continue to understand that what we believe and do goes hand in hand with God, then only His Son gets the glory.
You asked.........
".... then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?"

If I am understanding your position that our acceptance of Jesus when we confess Him as Lord, is then an act of work on our part that save us...........Then NO, I would not accept that opinion.

From what I have been taught, and from what I understand, our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ and what He did without any help, or assistance from us in any way.

The Bible says that He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty in 2 Corinthians 5:21);......
"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

The Bible also says that He is our Savior from sin in John 1:29.......
" The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

The Bible also says that He is the author and finisher of our faith in Hebrews 12:2........
"looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."

So then, in my understanding, "ALL" of the work, necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead ...Hebrews 10:12..........
"But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

So the bottom line here for me is that the Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation.

We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” in Titus 3:5......
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit"
I personally do not see there in that Scripture a hint, or a suggestion or thought that our acceptance is a work on our part.

Ephesians 2:9
“Not by works, least we should boast".
I personally do not see there in that Scripture a hint, or a suggestion or thought that our acceptance is a work on our part.

Romans 3:10
“There is no one righteous, not even one”.
I personally do not see there in that Scripture a hint, or a suggestion or thought that our acceptance is a work on our part.

What does all of this mean to me. This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, praying all the time, doing good deeds or any work we can think of are incapable of saving anyone.

No matter how “good” we are, no matter how much we do, no matter how smart we think that we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness. (Romans 3:23; Matt. 19:17, Isaiah 64:6).
 
Every Christian group/denomination contains a mix of wheat and tares. If we personally know a tare, it's better to pray for them than to act judgmentally toward them.
we seem to have the word judging down to a science which my post was not about being judgmental. it was about facts you are correct in every denom .. but when we speak of our security we must first know beyond a shadow of doubt were saved.. ive been in services raise your hand repeat this prayer your saved.. it takes Holy ghost conviction and being drawn . what john the Baptist had to say in math 3:8 meet for repentance . there should be some evidence in change .

no one becomes super saint over night but we should show some evidence of growth . i have a young Middle aged man got saved or i do hope .. only 2 know him and God.. he still lives with his girl friend and yes she comes to . she has said she is not ready .. i am having to bring out the message of Change/ repentance / Godly sorrow bring repentance.

i have to preach the word speaking the truth in Love . for if i dont something happens to them and i failed to warn.. their blood is on my hands .

being a pastor this day in age is tough
 
You asked.........
".... then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?"

If I am understanding your position that our acceptance of Jesus when we confess Him as Lord, is then an act of work on our part that save us...........Then NO, I would not accept that opinion.
Neither would I ever say a work of our own saves us. Because that's not all that I asked.

Here's what I asked in full: And if the Bible says our words are also works, then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?

The first question to answer is what you asked me, if confessing the Lord Jesus is a work:

Now, if it is an accomplished "work"......dosen't that detract from Ephesians 2:8-9 where Paul says that our salvation is a gift we have no part in.

My answer began with asking you whether it mattered to you, if saving confession is a work or not.

I went on to show Scriptures teaching us that our words are works. Here are some more:

1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


We see that effeminate speech, revilings, heresies, and words of hatred are treated by God as works of the flesh.

Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

James confirms words of strife are also a work of evil. (There are of course other Scriptures about lying, bearing false witness, profane, and corrupt speech being evil works, as well as edifying speech with grace being good works.)

And so, I'd first like to see how you answer your own question: Is confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth, a work? Are our words also works in the sight of the Lord?

Only by answering this first question, can we then at least understand each other, and deal with whether Romans 10:9 'detracts' from Eph 2:8. Otherwise, we'll only be mischaracterizing what the other believes. Whether we can agree or not depends on first understanding what we each believe...
 
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Reminds me of the observant Jew's claim that on the Sabbath moving a hand to activate a motion detected light switch is forbidden because it's work, which is forbidden on the Sabbath.

It's simply a failure to understand the true nature of the concept of "work".
To your point, it's also a failure to understand what God means by forbidden 'work' on the Sabbath. Jesus exposes such trivial matters as adding personal rules and traditions to the law, which in the end corrupts the spiritual and practical intent of God. In the Sabbath, 'work' is our livelihood in the field and market, not any 'act' we may do while resting from our labors.

I was once a part of Christian churches, where we made the same mistake, by forbidding washing the car on a Sunday in the name of the Sabbath. That's where all the useless disputing comes in, that only divides the churches of God. Paul calls them doubtful disputations.

I have learned to wholeheartedly reject such misplaced rule-making among Christians. If the law of Christ specifically says something is a transgression, such as fornication, drunkenness, lying, stealing, etc...Then by His grace and faith we don't do those things. But God never says we can't rescue someone or something from a ditch, or wash a car on certain days.
 
It is very SIMPLE... and when people try to complicate the matter... or place un-necessary emphasis on ONE word or concept... It has been my experience that it is caused by WRONG BELIEF.

These types of circular discussions in my opinion NEVER get anywhere.

JESUS DID ALL THE WORK at the CROSS.... and by the SHEDDING of HIS BLOOD ... we are INVITED to partake in this wonderful thing CALLED SALVATION.

I have NEVER EVER dared to consider that I had ANY part in the SUPERNATURAL EVENT of my SALVATION.

It has also been my experience that when I place my EYES on HIM.... WHEN I PRAISE and ADORE HIM... WHEN I REJOICE in all the I AM's of the BIBLE.... there is NO room to waste my time on issues of "works". THAT is a legalistic thing... and it is a DANGEROUS thing.
 
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