Is Acceptance A "Work" of Obedience

[Major]

I have tried to follow this thread... and to be honest.... It's going in a circular motion for me.

MY SINS... all of them... have ALREADY been FORGIVEN... I don't understand what will happen when I actually die and FACE CHRIST. NO one knows what will happen when we die.... but I am assured that JESUS is my KINSMEN REDEEMER. HE is my ADVOCATE... and HE will swallow whatever darkness/sin I have.... BECAUSE..... I BELONG to HIM... and HE DIED for this purpose.

HE confronted and OVERCAME sin..... ONCE and FOR ALL. THAT is the only REASON I am able to stand with my head lifted ... is because my SAVIOUR loves me so much... that HE GAVE HIS life for me.... and HE CONQUERED the SIN ISSUE with GOD. HE APPEASED GOD.

My entire EXISTENCE is lived upon the ABOVE premise.... and it is GRATITUDE and THANKSGIVING that FILLS my heart.

I think we ALL ( at times ) take the love of GOD for granted... we lack GRATITUDE... we mumble... we give into temptation... It's part of working out a RELATIONSHIP. WE are NOT robots... nor are we perfect.... STATING this does not make us complacent or ABUSIVE of GRACE... it is simply the reality of humans living in a fallen world. GOD SEES all things and HE knows our hearts.

I do believe you will enjoy the forums as there are a few here that enjoy a healthy debate... I AM NOT one of them. HAHAHA.

I agree. Lots of words used but It seems to me that it comes down to one thing........
Godhelpus is saying that the act of confessing Jesus as Saviour is a "work" that we do.

I am saying that it is not a "work" that we do.

He has posted several Scriptures which he believes supports his view and I have posted Ephesians 2:8-9..........
"We are saved by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

As Paul Harvey used to say.........."And thats the rest of the story"!

 

[In Awe of Him]

I agree. Lots of words used but It seems to me that it comes down to one thing........
Godhelpus is saying that the act of confessing Jesus as Saviour is a "work" that we do.

I am saying that it is not a "work" that we do.

Little old me... who is ALOOF from the world agrees that it is NOT a work on our part. To state that it is a work... is an ASSAULT on the FINISHED.. absolutely COMPLETED... TOTALLY FULFILLED and FULLY ACCOMPLISHED work of CHRIST.

I have often witnessed debates that seem to simply be a fight of semantics.

I may NOT know many answers about GOD.... or the end times prophesies of REVELATIONS... but I do KNOW that HE IS EVERYTHING the bible says HE IS. THAT DELIGHTS me... EXCITES me and SATISFIES all my wonderings.

I struggle with the fact that I have turned my back on participating in the world... and sometimes I feel GUILT and SHAME suddenly breathing down my neck... wanting to call me a LOSER and NOT a GOOD CHRISTIAN because I do not go out on the mountain top SHOUTING about SIN and the NEED for SALVATION. That has NEVER been me... I spent 58 years of my life in PRISON... a prison of GUILT... SHAME... CONDEMNATION... OPPRESSION... SUPPRESSION and DEPRESSION.. mixed with ADDICTION.

The FACT that in one spit second... 4 years ago... that was ALL removed from me... is something I will NEVER forget... and I will live until my last breath with absolute PRAISE and ADORATION on my lips.

I do not need to KNOW things that will happen as far as God is concerned... I am ok with FINDING out... because as far as I am aware... GOD is well pleased with those who TRUST in HIM completely... without reservation or DOUBT.

For me .... IT is CHRIST's FINISHED work on the CROSS that is the WORK. I am the BLESSED recipient of CHRIST's work. My little offerings of love and devotion are ALL I have to give... and even though I am AWARE that they are NOT worthy.... somehow.... I feel that this is what GOD DESIRES from His children.... a simply... and fully surrendered ACCEPTANCE.

This thread has brought up some dilemmas for me... and so I will spend some time talking to Father about it.

 

[Major]

Little old me... who is ALOOF from the world agrees that it is NOT a work on our part. To state that it is a work... is an ASSAULT on the FINISHED.. absolutely COMPLETED... TOTALLY FULFILLED and FULLY ACCOMPLISHED work of CHRIST.

I have often witnessed debates that seem to simply be a fight of semantics.

I may NOT know many answers about GOD.... or the end times prophesies of REVELATIONS... but I do KNOW that HE IS EVERYTHING the bible says HE IS. THAT DELIGHTS me... EXCITES me and SATISFIES all my wonderings.

I struggle with the fact that I have turned my back on participating in the world... and sometimes I feel GUILT and SHAME suddenly breathing down my neck... wanting to call me a LOSER and NOT a GOOD CHRISTIAN because I do not go out on the mountain top SHOUTING about SIN and the NEED for SALVATION. That has NEVER been me... I spent 58 years of my life in PRISON... a prison of GUILT... SHAME... CONDEMNATION... OPPRESSION... SUPPRESSION and DEPRESSION.. mixed with ADDICTION.

The FACT that in one spit second... 4 years ago... that was ALL removed from me... is something I will NEVER forget... and I will live until my last breath with absolute PRAISE and ADORATION on my lips.

I do not need to KNOW things that will happen as far as God is concerned... I am ok with FINDING out... because as far as I am aware... GOD is well pleased with those who TRUST in HIM completely... without reservation or DOUBT.

For me .... IT is CHRIST's FINISHED work on the CROSS that is the WORK. I am the BLESSED recipient of CHRIST's work. My little offerings of love and devotion are ALL I have to give... and even though I am AWARE that they are NOT worthy.... somehow.... I feel that this is what GOD DESIRES from His children.... a simply... and fully surrendered ACCEPTANCE.

This thread has brought up some dilemmas for me... and so I will spend some time talking to Father about it.

Listen.....little sister, what someone else "thinks" should never ever influence you! There is NO dilemma here at all!

I look in the mirror and I think I am cute. But that is just me thinking it and it does not make it real!



You correctly and Biblically said........
"To state that it is a work... is an ASSAULT on the FINISHED.. absolutely COMPLETED... TOTALLY FULFILLED and FULLY ACCOMPLISHED work of CHRIST."

Now, focus on the truth of God's Word and you will never have a dilemma.

 

[forgiven61]

I do believe that is the POINT I was trying to make.

I have not heard of the BEMA judgement . I will have to look that up.

its the reward judgemnt https://www.biblestudytools.com/bib...ristians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html

 

[Dave F.]

Accepting Jesus as Lord and savior is not a work and is in fact the free gift of God. Confessing Jesus (giving a testimony) is a work for how can they believe unless they hear the word of God preached? I think Major is talking about our act of accepting Jesus, and Godhelpus is talking about testimony and confessing Jesus as Lord (sharing the gospel). If I am misunderstanding either please correct me.

 

[Major]

Accepting Jesus as Lord and savior is not a work and is in fact the free gift of God. Confessing Jesus (giving a testimony) is a work for how can they believe unless they hear the word of God preached? I think Major is talking about our act of accepting Jesus, and Godhelpus is talking about testimony and confessing Jesus as Lord (sharing the gospel). If I am misunderstanding either please correct me.

I do not know brother, but his exact words in post #45 was a question he asked me...........

"then you would accept that hen you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?

Now as an old country boy, when I read the words "then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with"
I reacted to what he said ......."an accomplished work to be saved with"!

 

[Dave F.]

I do not know brother, but his exact words in post #45 was a question he asked me...........

"then you would accept that hen you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with?

Now as an old country boy, when I read the words "then you would accept that confessing Jesus is an accomplished work to be saved with"
I reacted to what he said ......."an accomplished work to be saved with"!

He also said this in post #8..."Agreed. Acceptance alone is not a work. Only when we receive His faith to do His will, can we be saved." This is why I think he is talking about sharing the gospel via confessing Jesus as Lord as a work. It seems to me that you are talking about accepting Jesus and he is talking about confessing Jesus, which one can only do after accepting the free gift. Again I ask him to correct me if I have misunderstood his position.

 

[cocoa]

I think the work comes thru living out our faith in a way that is reverent and obedient.

 

[Godhelpus]

Brother......this kind og long drawn out post may be good for you but it is not for me.

If you would like to shorten your post and go to asking one question or or one opinion at a time I will be gald to respond.

Of course. Gladly. The main point is about whether confessing the Lord Jesus is a work. I've given Scriptures showing our words are also works we do. And so, confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth is a work.

You've said it isn't, which means we disagree. Do you see anywhere in the Scriptures I've given, that I've gotten the wrong conclusion about words also being works?

 

[Major]

Of course. Gladly. The main point is about whether confessing the Lord Jesus is a work. I've given Scriptures showing our words are also works we do. And so, confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth is a work.

You've said it isn't, which means we disagree. Do you see anywhere in the Scriptures I've given, that I've gotten the wrong conclusion about words also being works?

Good afternoon. Here in wonderful Florida it is 1:30 PM.

I agree that you have given several Scriptures that in your opinion support words as a work. Personally, I do not agree that those Scriptures mean what you want them to mean, so then You are correct in that we disagree.

So I guess the 1st thing to do is to identify what a "Work" is. You are saying that "Words" spoken are a work.
However, I have been taught in my past that In biblical theology, "Works" refers to the deeds, actions, or activities performed by individuals.

The only one I know of who "spoke" a word and something happened from that spoken word was God almighty. He spoke the word in everything came from nothing.

To be clear, in my opinion, I do not accept the idea that words spoken by a human have the power to manifest reality.
However, our words do more than convey information; they have an impact on people. The power of our words can burden one’s spirit, even stir up hatred and violence. Words can exacerbate wounds and inflict them directly.

The writer of Proverbs tells us in Proverbs 18:21... “The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit”.

So then, I do not see any situation or thinking or opinion whereby words spoken are able to be considered an act of works in being saved.

Again, if that was possible, then Ephesians 2:8-9 and several other Scriptures will have to be removed from the Bible. From my knowledge, our salvation is 100% God's grace through faith...."Not of works, because if we was we would brag about it"!
The thought, or idea that our acceptance of Jesus is a work on our part is totally unacceptable in my understanding of Christian theology.
However......it is very important to live a righteouse life of obedience to the Word of God, the act of speaking words is not the basis for Biblical salvation.

 

[Godhelpus]

Accepting Jesus as Lord and savior is not a work and is in fact the free gift of God. Confessing Jesus (giving a testimony) is a work for how can they believe unless they hear the word of God preached? I think Major is talking about our act of accepting Jesus, and Godhelpus is talking about testimony and confessing Jesus as Lord (sharing the gospel). If I am misunderstanding either please correct me.

I don't see confessing the Lord Jesus as necessarily preaching the gospel, since in Romans 3, that would mean we must preach to be saved. And since receiving and confessing Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, then I don't see any good way of separating them. In Romans 3, being saved by receiving Jesus Christ into the heart, can't be without confessing Him Lord, and visa versa.

I don't see anyone objecting to confessing the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved in Rom 3. The only objection I see being made, is that if confessing Jesus Christ is a work we do, then that would somehow detract from being saved by grace through faith in Eph 2.

Hope this at least clarifies where I'm coming from.

I will say this. That so far as your observation about confessing the Lord Jesus to preach. I totally agree after many years, that the easiest and greatest witnessing and preaching we can do, is simply confessing from the heart Jesus Christ is Lord!

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Dave F.]

I guess I just see it different. I don't see how one can confess Jesus as Lord until they have first accepted Him as such. Acceptance then confession as opposed to acceptance and confession.

 

[Godhelpus]

Good afternoon. Here in wonderful Florida it is 1:30 PM.

Thanks much. I appreciate you taking the time to look at my Scriptural argument again. Sorry for the delay, I've been working out of town. And I certainly agree it's best to focus on the main point first, so that we can at least understand where we're coming from, even if we don't agree.

I agree that you have given several Scriptures that in your opinion support words as a work. Personally, I do not agree that those Scriptures mean what you want them to mean, so then You are correct in that we disagree.

No problem. But since you don't show how, then without any correction for me to go by, we'll still disagree.

So I guess the 1st thing to do is to identify what a "Work" is. You are saying that "Words" spoken are a work.
However, I have been taught in my past that In biblical theology, "Works" refers to the deeds, actions, or activities performed by individuals.

The only one I know of who "spoke" a word and something happened from that spoken word was God almighty. He spoke the word in everything came from nothing.

To be clear, in my opinion, I do not accept the idea that words spoken by a human have the power to manifest reality.
However, our words do more than convey information; they have an impact on people. The power of our words can burden one’s spirit, even stir up hatred and violence. Words can exacerbate wounds and inflict them directly.

The writer of Proverbs tells us in Proverbs 18:21... “The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit”.

This is a traditional understanding, that is also by logical observation. No one can deny that our words do affect our own lives for the good or bad, as well as that of others. As they say, the pen can be mightier than the sword.

However, Anyone could use this natural understanding, to conclude that words are equivalent with works by their direct results in life. It certainly can't be used to say words and works cannot be equivalent.

I can only refer back to the Scriptures, that specifically says words are also works of the flesh. And of course, bearing false witness is an act of transgression against the law of the Lord, both in the old and new Testaments.

Again, if that was possible, then Ephesians 2:8-9 and several other Scriptures will have to be removed from the Bible.

Naturally I don't agree. I would say since confessing the Lord Jesus is work, then Eph 2:8-9 should not be interpreted in a way that would contradict Rom 10:9-10.

Perhaps someone could try showing that confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth, is somehow not as other spoken words, that are equivalent with work?

From my knowledge, our salvation is 100% God's grace through faith...."Not of works, because if we was we would brag about it"!

I certainly agree, since the Scripture say so. Therefore, as I say, since spoken words of confession is a work, then Eph 2 can only exclude any works that we could brag about. Since confessing the Lord Jesus to be saved, can only be by grace, then no man should boast of confessing the Lord Jesus.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Cor{15:10} But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace [which was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[forgiven61]

I don't see anyone objecting to confessing the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved in Rom 3. The only objection I see being made, is that if confessing Jesus Christ is a work we do, then that would somehow detract from being saved by grace through faith in Eph 2.

this is where your hitting the brick wall.. by adding works in to salvation. Paul calls it the free gift a free gift can not be earned .. water baptism could possibly fall into a type work because its something we do but it does not save


romans 5

15But not as the offence, so also is ( the free gift. } For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Ephesians 2​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


so to add works into the plan of salvation is not correct .we do nothing only speak from the heart confess with your heart . Jesus paid the price Isiah 53 By Hi stripes we are healed spiritually healed what is grace ? divine favor . i like this

Lamentations 3​

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

22It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

24The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

25The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.

26It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.



please Note HIS mercies if we got what we deserved .. we would all end up in hell. that can go to the bank of facts

 

[Major]

Thanks much. I appreciate you taking the time to look at my Scriptural argument again. Sorry for the delay, I've been working out of town. And I certainly agree it's best to focus on the main point first, so that we can at least understand where we're coming from, even if we don't agree.


No problem. But since you don't show how, then without any correction for me to go by, we'll still disagree.



This is a traditional understanding, that is also by logical observation. No one can deny that our words do affect our own lives for the good or bad, as well as that of others. As they say, the pen can be mightier than the sword.

However, Anyone could use this natural understanding, to conclude that words are equivalent with works by their direct results in life. It certainly can't be used to say words and works cannot be equivalent.

I can only refer back to the Scriptures, that specifically says words are also works of the flesh. And of course, bearing false witness is an act of transgression against the law of the Lord, both in the old and new Testaments.



Naturally I don't agree. I would say since confessing the Lord Jesus is work, then Eph 2:8-9 should not be interpreted in a way that would contradict Rom 10:9-10.

Perhaps someone could try showing that confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth, is somehow not as other spoken words, that are equivalent with work?


I certainly agree, since the Scripture say so. Therefore, as I say, since spoken words of confession is a work, then Eph 2 can only exclude any works that we could brag about. Since confessing the Lord Jesus to be saved, can only be by grace, then no man should boast of confessing the Lord Jesus.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Cor{15:10} But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace [which was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

I agree that we will stand in disagreement. I must say to you that in all my years I have never heard anyone take the position you have taken although I would add here that the Catholic church teaches that going to confession is a work.

I guess my personal problem here is that I see NO way to understand how something said compares to something done.

I am going to say to you one more time that Grace is God giving us something we cannot earn or deserve.
Then according to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace.
The rub here is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned.
Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace.

IMHO, when I read and study the Word of God, it is quite clear that our own works/words do not help merit salvation.

We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” as seen in Titus 3:5.
“Not by works” in Ephesians 2:9.
“There is no one righteous, not even one” in Romans 3:10.

This means Biblically that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, speaking a word, work of any kind and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness which is what we read in Romans 3:23.....Matthew 19:17 and Isaiah 64:6.

Works of the flesh as seen in Gal. 6:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, ;idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Now, I will allow you the last word on your opinion of words spoken.

Maybe there is Someone who else may be willing to spend time on this with you but I am not the one. It is simply a no brainer IMHO.

See ya on another topic down the road.

 

[APAK]

I have come across a few people recently who claim that by making the choice for Jesus as their Saviour, they have in fact done a "work".

What are your thoughts?

Late comer to this topic...and I have been away from the site for awhile...

How is this 'work' defined? And if indeed 'accepting Christ' is called work then do these people discount grace and faith less, or not at all - insignificant? It's hard to make a useful comment or form an honest opinion until more is known of this 'work'. Is believing in the gospel, and knowing the grace of God for salvation along with being of contrite heart and confessing sin all 'work' that leads to salvation along with the spirit of Christ indwelt all work? Technically it is work, although it's how we think of this term, as we are being saved is another matter.

The work of the Spirit of God in our lives to influence our walk to bear good fruits of the Spirit is all work, even though the focus and basis is of faith and the good graces of God. The work is the result of growing faith and grace...

Good subject..thx

 

[Major]

Late comer to this topic...and I have been away from the site for awhile...

How is this 'work' defined? And if indeed 'accepting Christ' is called work then do these people discount grace and faith less, or not at all - insignificant? It's hard to make a useful comment or form an honest opinion until more is known of this 'work'. Is believing in the gospel, and knowing the grace of God for salvation along with being of contrite heart and confessing sin all 'work' that leads to salvation along with the spirit of Christ indwelt all work? Technically it is work, although it's how we think of this term, as we are being saved is another matter.

The work of the Spirit of God in our lives to influence our walk to bear good fruits of the Spirit is all work, even though the focus and basis is of faith and the good graces of God. The work is the result of growing faith and grace...

Good subject..thx

Welcome back!
I have no idea brother. But as you can see, at least one person believes that our acceptance of Jesus is an act of work that we do.

You said...........
"Technically it is work, although it's how we think of this term, as we are being saved is another matter."

I have to disagree. Saying YES I accept Jesus as my Saviour, is NOT a work but is instead an act of faith and surrender.

Now, it may be that this thought is coming from the camp of a Calvinist or a determinist perspective where it is considered work because it involves agency and choice due to Limited Atonement.

 

[Prim90]

Late comer to this topic...and I have been away from the site for awhile...

How is this 'work' defined? And if indeed 'accepting Christ' is called work then do these people discount grace and faith less, or not at all - insignificant? It's hard to make a useful comment or form an honest opinion until more is known of this 'work'. Is believing in the gospel, and knowing the grace of God for salvation along with being of contrite heart and confessing sin all 'work' that leads to salvation along with the spirit of Christ indwelt all work? Technically it is work, although it's how we think of this term, as we are being saved is another matter.

The work of the Spirit of God in our lives to influence our walk to bear good fruits of the Spirit is all work, even though the focus and basis is of faith and the good graces of God. The work is the result of growing faith and grace...

Good subject..thx

The work has always been there. That being that God chooses . God spoke the great work of faith into our hearts Mans expression of the work be secondary because it be the God that created the work of faith. The God be the cause and effect of the work for man to express the work of confession by giving us the faith to believe. The great concern to me is if that work in action solely becomes the work of man and not from the work of the God. Is God to submit to every sinners. Prayer because merely because man demands it to be so. Than that would be a great travesty and attack upon the sovereignty and the election of the God. Is God to merely bow down and except every man’s demand. More so if man has not been given the faith from God to believe and love God.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Now, it may be that this thought is coming from the camp of a Calvinist or a determinist perspective where it is considered work because it involves agency and choice due to Limited Atonement.

and that in itself is another problem regarding SALVATION being a FREE gift to all who would accept. Calvinism... in my opinion... is an equally deceptive and false doctrine in several areas of CHRISTIANITY.

SADLY.... there is so much BAD DOCTRINE out there.