They actually have been used very effectively by Satan as a Christian Trojan Horse, getting into may pulpits and churches The best thing thst the christians into that theology so called to do would be to pubically rebuke them, show as as being cons and frauds, and kick them out of their churches
How would you define the term holding to a Cessationism theology then?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
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The word of faith and other religious charlatans should be thankful that we are now under Grace, as it the Holy Spirit still examined and judged them for their doctrines and practices, there would be mass graves needing to be dung for them, for they would pretty much go the way of the couple in Acts who lied to the Holy Spirit
never said it did ..since the Church was ushered in ..the works of the day of pentecost continue . i stated and will stand by the gifts of the spirit are alive and well working in each person saved. is the power in acts 1:8 null and void today
No, as its the very same Holy Spirit, but He no longer gives go one gift on tongues, and all redeemed have same power regardless if tongue talking or not
HOLD UP at no time time did i mention tongues in my reply .. tongues can be translated other languages also let me clarify i never said the same spirit at pentecost was different ..please do not be adding into what i never said.. as per the tongues movement me personally i am not sure its same kind of tongues paul wrote about..
all i can say is a person is in a church that uses tongues then that is for them.. i will say i know some very dedicated Christians that are true blue to the bone. that speak in tongues . i do not go along with the apostolic oneness doctrine .
i look at this way when paul wrote to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.. each one has to do just that. i do hope this clarifies the matter up
You are biblically correct ib that Tongues....according to the Scriptures ended.
1 Corth 13:8-10........
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away; For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. "
"Perfect" can only be one of two things in verse #10....
1. Jesus who had already come at that time,
2. the completed Word of God which was yet to be canonized when Paul wrote those words.
For CONTEXT consider Mark 16:14-18. The ONLY ones who were given the ability to speak in tongues, heal the sick, raise the dead, survive snake bites and drink bad water was the ELEVEN Apostles who Jesus personally commissioned plus Paul later to make the 12 Apostles. THose 12 were given the SIGN GIFTS and no one else since then qualify to be able to do those things.
Not all of the gifts though are still in operation, as they were confined to the Apostolic Age some of them, such as tongues and sign gifts
Satan was very busy in using tongues movement to cause division among the brethren, same way that he used KJVO to do likewise
not that i really care but there are those who will disagree . actually there are few thing we can learn from the pentecostals
Do you see sign gifts still in operation per today, as well as modern Prophets and Apostles as they do?
Good morning, brothers;
We have a large Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Word of Faith in the SF Bay Area. Truthfully, many of these brothers and sisters have attended for years and sadly, still don't fully understand their doctrine and teaching. The truthful way for me to describe what they know is tossed and intermixed between the three denoms.
I've known some of my acquaintances and friends for 30+ years that still worship at these Churches. It's been in their upbringing since they were Christian babes. Today they have grown very humble, conduct and serve in humility and don't make authoritative statements about their doctrine. This allows me to have meaningful conversations while learning a little more about them, (not their Church, but them,) their personal walk with Jesus, daily life and striving to live the 9 fruit of the spirit.
Yes, Virginia, seasoned Christians do exist in these places of worship.
This no way dismisses the believers there who blow trumpets, babble in one assembly, fall on the ground shaking and go into fits of uncontrollable laughter which goes against the Holy Spirit's fruit of self control. I didn't know how to receive these displays back in my late 20s and most of my 30s.
I remember in 1998 a man once asked me in front of a group of people from a large Pentecostal Church, "what are you?" (he wanted to know my denomination) I'm a Southern Baptist. He replied, "are you sure you want to go that way?"
My wife and I looked at each other (what?!?) and knew what the other (my wife and I) was thinking. God was watching the whole conversation and instead of exposing the pride in my flesh, we both answered quietly, "yes" (Matthew 5:37.) The others in the group approached us later and apologized out of embarrassment. One said, "I thought we're all on the same team for Christ."
Today I won't dignify such a response. Some people seek to divide in the name of their Church, but to what end? Most of the time it's an internal and blind end within them.
I don't agree with many of the Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Word of Faith doctrines, but I'm having conversations with the friends I know who support it.
In one of my many discussions I have never witnessed signs of today, nor any prophet or apostle come to light. I have witnessed how God answers many of our prayers, heal the sick, He leads relationships to flourish, send us to make disciples and so much more in abundance, from the Almighty God.
God bless you all.
Bob
The basic issues are not with their laity, as many of them have been dupes, its with their self proclaimed teachers, pastors, prophets and Apostle so called, as they are the ones with pushing the heresies of that Movement
neither do not sure i know of the word of faith.. But here is the point were Not going to change them... i have a good pastor friend excellent preacher. left the general baptist opened up his own church.. he has pretty much went pentecostal . still friends we vist his church along the way.. good christian folks in there..
once again that is for them i do feel the tongue issue is bit much but once again i cant change them ..nor more than they can change me .. one thing i do stand on i dont need a denomination to be saved. a old time preacher man once said iam glad i got saved before becoming a baptist
another old timer once said your name tag will either fall off going up or burn off going down..
you have that with every denom.. i attended a uncle who had past away funeral.. after the service my aunt introduced me to her pastor,, she told him i was a preacher . he then said why didn't you preach the funeral.. he then said i guess your southern baptist i said no sir i am general baptist the conversation changed
i worked with a guy who was indepent fund baptist he said his pastor would not preach outside his circle.. thats crazy i will preach where ever a door is open.. i would like preach ina pentc church one time... after all we have the same jesus .
You are very correct. Someone has said that we can learn from the Pentecostals. I guess that means we can learn to speak in tongues when tongues were never a learned event but was a gift to the Apostles.
The support of those who speak in tongues is to show ones ignorance of the Bible. Tongues, physical healings, surviving snake bites, raising the dead and drinking poisoned water was a "Package Gift" given to a specific group of people in Mark 16. The Apostles had all of those abilities. It was called the "Sign Gifts".
Today, especially those of the Pentecostal faith WANT to do those things BUT the only one that they can do, is to fake speaking in tongues. They can not raise the dead. Those who play with rattlesnakes are dead. No one drinks bleach and there is NO validation of anyone who was healed by a man. So tongues is the one that that they promote on focus on at the exclusion of all the others.
The fact is real simple. When we support a heresy we are then part of that heresy no matter how much we deny it. Error is error and if it is someones father it is still error and must be called out.
I am amazed at those who say and think that their friends are Biblically correct simply because they are doing what they want to do.
I come back to the writer of the books Hebrews seems to be stating that the Apostles did use sign gifts to confim the person and ministry of the Lord Jesus in their lifetimes, bit no longer going on in their midst currently
Remember brother.....Hebrews was written by a Hebrew TO other Hebrews and all of the Apostles were Hebrews.
Those 12 Hebrews were given Sign Gifts to validate their calling by God. They were able to do all the things that Jesus did.
Good morning, forgiven;
I don't mean to take this sideways from the topic at hand. When we studied the Baptist Heritage, Four Centuries of Baptist Witness by H. Leon Mcbeth, I was blown away how the original Baptist in England and America branched off into different flavors of the Baptist Church.
The General (1612,) American Baptists (1638,) Southern (1845,) Independent (20th century,) Northern (20th century,) Baptist Churches, etc...
I'm not really proud of the evolving history of the denom but have learned how it's history shaped the things to come in the Church.
Why would the preacher you mentioned, assuming he is an elderly man, make that kind of statement to you? I still officiate funerals today for all peoples. Families need that time to remember and grieve their loved ones, and I serve to deliver the hope of Jesus.
I do agree with you. We have the same Jesus. Doesn't everyone have that opportunity? If anyone gathering asks you to share the Good News, then by all means.
God bless you, brother.
Bob
My point was that the author seemed to be indicating that those sign gifts had waned and ceased around time His book was being recorded down, as also might be indicated that Paul did not just command a healing over timothy but suggested to take medicine of wine
Think Chuck Swindoll had a story about how 2 pastors met while there was time out for lunch at a bible conference, and they started discussing theology, and both affirmed Trinity, inspiration of bible, Jesus death and resurrection, KJVO, but finally one stated held to Nothern Baptist other southern Baptist and they tossed each other off the bridge yelling to the other one "Heretic"