12 tribes of Israel

Mannases.
Yes. Something interesting happened there, they were twins werent they, one got blessed first?

Yes Ephraim who becomes "fullness of the gentiles" (melo ha'goyim)

My study of the words in this phrase come from Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon not Strong’s. However, Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance also bears this out. The insight was given to me from the Holy Spirit while studying the Houses of Israel and Judah as separate entities. Later I found confirmation from many (including many Rabbis) who are by far more learned people than myself. Therefore, I would never claim this interpretation to be unique. This relates to a much larger body of data that perhaps I will present in article or study form for the edification of the saints, but anyway, I believe this is sufficient to demonstrate I am not just making up this understanding of the phrase. The phrase is found in Genesis 48:19.


Melo’ #H4393: is a masculine noun which literally means “fullness” or “that which fills” but it can also mean completeness (the verb form ‘mala’ means to accomplish or to be amassed together)


Ha’ is the standard definite article which is usually interpreted ‘the’, ‘of the’, or ‘a’! For example: Baruch ’Ha’Shem Adonai Y’shua Ha’Moschiach Tzeddkenu means Blessed be the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Righteousness. This article, just like in English always refers to the noun which in Hebrew precedes it (which in this Scripture is goyim) which in our English follows it (we say “the gentiles or nations” they say “gentiles the, or nations the”).


A second feature, taken from Genesius Hebrew Grammar, reveals that in Hebrew when the definite article is used it automatically implies we do not know precisely who the person, or which object, being described is! It would be like if I said “Go and pick the apple of your choice from my orchard.” I couldn’t possibly know which apple you would pick but that you would pick one would be without doubt. So when we say Ha’Shem (the Name) we cannot be sure which Name is being referred to. In this case the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) may be the name, but exactly how is it correctly pronounced…no one really knows!


Now as for ‘Goyim’ (#H1471), it is the plural of “goy” which refers to all non-Hebrews. Though as “people” it may include the physical descendants of Abraham, it more so refers to the heathen who knew not God. In all fairness it can be used to refer to “the nations” but again meaning the world apart from Jacob’s tribes (hence Goyim). The cognate root of the word is “ga-ah’ which means to have grown up, to be exalted in triumph, or to be lifted.


Paul’s phrase “pleroma ton ethon”, in the Greek, spoke directly to the learned Rabbis of the diaspora and is a reference to the LXX translation of Genesis 48:19 which in classical Greek says ‘plethos ethnon’.


When we get to the Old Latin version, the writer renders this ‘creset in gentes’ which literally means ‘a full number of gentiles’. I believe it is here where the direction away from the original understanding began to evolve. In my humble opinion, those who read this slight differentiation, in this twice removed tongue, did not get the correct notion and miss an important notion in the purpose of the Church.

As the gentiles of faith (the wild olive branch) are being grafted in, the broken off branches (the enculturated Israelites mixed or sown into the gentiles, the 80 or 90 % who never returned from the Assyrian dispersal) are also being grafted in through Messiah so in end the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim will once again be one stick in Messiah.

The stick is the shebbet or staff of rulership and authority leaving Jew and Gentile one in Messiah.

Paul
 
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I love learning new things!!! Wow, Paul....reading your post, I couldn't help thinking of the United States. A far stretch, I know, but still I wonder. :)
 
Oh! Thought so! Its interesting to find out the origins of ppl. I knew that stick picture had some significance attached but couldnt figure out what. I though had to do with some other lost tribe.
Thanks. So..jews and gentiles brought together in Christ. Wonderful.

I am learning horticulture and its amazing what you can grow using grafting techniques.
 
My speculation of the history….

YHVH had sent many prophets with His own words to the Northern Kingdom, warning them in love, and almost always the true prophets were eventually beaten, imprisoned, or killed. But alas, having given people free will, eventually, when it became apparent that they were mistaking the longsuffering of God’s grieved love for a lack of consequence for their sin, or possibly in some humanly reasonable way, they may have seen it as His allowance of their rebellious depravity, or possibly that He did not exist, eventually the time had come when He lifted His merciful arm of protection, and the hordes of the vicious and cruel Assyrian host began a long campaign of terrorism and vicious attacks, until their final destruction and captivity was at hand. According to the scriptures the Assyrian hordes carried them away to “the far countries“, and even as far as “the coasts“.

In this, one can see the testimony of their utter dispersion in the record Ezra bears in 1 Chronicles 5:26 where He describes four extreme directions of their placement, each one being very far away from the other. In effect, the Assyrians not only enslaved the northern Israelites but spread them out all over the then known world so that they could never successfully band together against them in any significant way. After a couple of centuries, most were totally enculturated.

With the Assyrians, as was the practice of many of the pagans in that time, many of the male prisoners were slaughtered (especially the leaders). Families were often intentionally disunited and the women were often cruelly raped, and many times methodically impregnated producing sons to be raised in the culture and ways of the victor.

We saw these same heinous practices with the rise of the Ottoman Empire, and during the infiltration of the Nazi regime into the various Slavic countries, and again in the recent history of Sudan by the infiltration of militant Islamic, pro-government militias, who presently rule there.

All of these movements are of the same spirit, a spirit of hatred for God’s people. Just a simple perusal of recent Sudanese history reveals this to be a true and established fact! The once majority Christian community in Sudan, which is all but wiped out now, or else has been sold into slavery, was once a very prominent cultural influence there. But after merely a decade of torture, rape, crucifixion, burning, enslavement, and the intentional suppression of this information by the highly financed liberal western press since the 1980s, they are no more.

Regarding Ephraim’s kingdom, the total campaign of the Assyrian onslaught occurred in phases. Prior to the beginning of, and at the end of each subsequent campaign, the Ephraimites were again prophetically warned of their inevitable future, called to repentance, and given the opportunity for victory over their enemies and restoration of their fellowship with and the protection of YHVH, Lord of Hosts, but they would not, until finally God let them go their own way entirely. This brought about the inevitable end of their self as a kingdom and a people.

The first major falling out has been labeled “the Galilee Captivity“ which took place under Tiglath-Pileser around 735 B.C., but their ultimate demise, and the utter destruction of their Capital, came under King Sargon around 720 B.C., and by 705 B.C. the Ephraimites had been entirely “carried off “. The northern tribes of the Kingdom of Israel were no longer a congruent nation or state, or for that matter even a people unto themselves, but YHVH had not forgotten them, nor would He be untrue to His covenants with father’s Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and He knew them all, from then even into our time.

In Isaiah 49, they are called “Jacob” and the scattered sheep (for Judah as of yet had not been carried away), where regarding His unique Servant, Messiah, the light unto the Gentiles, it is said that He “will bring Jacob back“! Isaiah here tells us one of the prophetic purposes of Christ’s coming. We would bring them back on our shoulders. It is believed by some to restore the unity between Israel and Judah. Judah at the time was fine though already being warned, but Israel (Jacob) was truly broken off.

Attacks continued unsuccessfully against the Kingdom of Judah for a time, but were very successful against the House of Israel. Sennicherib invaded Israel around 690 B.C.! King Assur-Banipal (during the time of Nahum) in Assyrian records we have unearthed, boasts of impaling the heads of his enemies on poles, and flaying the skins from their leaders while still alive, and hanging them on poles around the besieged cities for all to see.

Now, that all this really happened is not only outlined in history as revealed through the prophets, but much of it has also been Archaeologically confirmed in our time. From the few generations of moderate peace with Israel following the alleged time of Jonah under King Adad-Nirari. What we now know of some of these persons, and some of the campaigns of Tiglath-Pileser and King Sargon II (whose actual palace we have found wonderfully preserved), is a way of the stones crying out against those who would silence us, and in witness of the truth of our God. Blessed be the Name of our LORD!

Assyria’s Kingdom (from around 690 B.C.), which included much of northern Israel, was later conquered by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, a second Nimrodian outgrowth, around 606 B.C. (the time of Daniel’s captivity)! By around 586 B.C. (20 years later) the Kingdom of Judah and Benjamin, was likewise utterly vanquished, and it’s kingdom and peoples were prophetically disposed of and carried off (the time of Jeremiah and Ezekiel).

Already by this time many of the House of Israel subjected to Assyrian rule and local culture, had all but forgotten their heritage, and their God. Many of them were already free citizens of their new respective nations. Some were merchants, butchers, millers, fishermen, and many were a mixed breed, etc.! They were settled in, and intermingled with the goy (gentiles), and bore forth the children of mixed marriages, void of significant remembrance of the traditions of the forefathers.

70 years later, as spoken aforetime in the prophets, the captivity of Judah was more or less annulled throughout the known world by Cyrus and the Medo-Persian uprising. Many of the acculturated offspring had all but lost their heritage and became utterly sown in among the goy, just as the word had predicted. In fact, most of the children of Judah likewise never returned to the land but remained in Babylon till well after the time of Christ.

But how could such a terrible thing have happened? They had such an illustrious beginning. Joshua, who was an Ephraimite, and Caleb, a son of Judah’s line, who were chosen by God, to be as one stick, to lead the people of God to victory into the promise land! In addition, the Tabernacle, the first official house of worship, where the Shekinah of God would come and dwell with His people, was first placed in Shiloh, an area over which the children of Ephraim, the son of Joseph, later ruled. But alas, even then there was worship in the high places, yes even when God’s Glory tabernacled among them many went whoring after false gods that they themselves made out of stone and wood. From among Ephraim’s control over the tabernacle made with hands, the Glory departed, and to Ephraim, the Glory of God has returned, in His Tabernacle not made with hands, that is “in Messiah” to whom Ephraim has flocked being mixed in with the gentiles. Likewise just as His first call to gentiles of repentance and grace came from Galilee (Jonah), the captivity began in Galilee, so also God saw it fit that from Galilee should come forth He who would ultimately be the way of their liberation and reconciliation. Did He not come for the "lost sheep" of the House of Israel?

brother Paul
 
It's estimated that 30% of the Jewish population accepted Christ as Messiah, at the time during and after Christ's crucifixtion. The nation of Israel, controlled by Herodians and Pharisees rejected Him. James, the brother of Jesus, was the uncontested leader of the early church. The Pharisitic movement controls the majority of practicing Jews (Orthodox) and they follow a combo of rabbinic interpretation, as opposed to plain scripture. (sources - Nehemiah Gordon, Robert Eisenman and others).

The gathering of "lost" or forgotten Jewish people..such as Operation White Dove, has returned people practicing the Jewish religion from Ethiopia to Israel. I think the project stopped in 2013. There were 8000 Black Ethiopian Jews there. Prophecy states that there would only be one Israel but all 12 tribes will be gathered.

Loved your post, @Brother Paul

 
I was thinking on this chapter today in revelation of the 144,ooo sealed does that refer to the 12 tribes comprised of israelites ppl of all time BEFORE the first coming of Jesus, or does that include up to this time, or for ALL time? Can I count that many names for each tribe in the bible, or groups? Righteous ppl?

Im just wondering how the twelve apostles tie in with the twelve tribes...was it cos there was one for each tribe, but then why council of 24 elders...is it their wives, included or somebody else. Those BEFORE israel was born maybe?
As for the apostles, I mean Jesus it seems in the gospel just asked some random guys to follow him, it does not say he vetted each one and asked which tribe they were from and picked one from each. or maybe he just knew.

As for the rest in the white robes I suppose thats including every nation, tongue tribe on earth come out of tribulation...and we ALL got through tribulation at some stage of our lives. If we follow Jesus, assured, we WILL have tribulation. Cos unbelievers HATE christians.


I dont get why some ppl teach you dont, and get 'raptured' away that is unbiblical. Anyway. Theres a lot of people in their white robes as many as sand on the seashore. And thats the promise of abaraham and his descendants.
 
I do not do Gematria or numerology but 7 = 3+4 while 12= 3x4....some here were speaking about Biblical numbers a while ago, perhaps they have some insight...12, 70, 120....hmmm! Id 1,000 always literal (like in the 144,000)
 
I dont get why some ppl teach you dont, and get 'raptured' away that is unbiblical. Anyway. Theres a lot of people in their white robes as many as sand on the seashore. And thats the promise of abaraham and his descendants.

The rapture is completely biblical. You'd have to miss it on purpose.
 
I agree with Euphemia that the rapture is totally biblical and I see it in scripture. I didn't see it (most of my life) until not too long ago and I have to say that I was blind to it but once the scales fell off - I couldn't understand how I could soooo miss it before. But it requires leaving behind preconceived notions and actually reading what scripture actually says not what we would like or thin it to say.
 
Jesus was of the bloodline of Judah. Paul, I think? was a Benjamite. Obviously, James the brother of Jesus would have shared the Judah bloodline. The bloodline of Aaron (Moses?) is Levite but I can't recall any other tribes mentioned with the 12 Apostles who knew Christ - http://www.marypages.com/Disciples.htm. Oh - Matthew is named a Levite (?) here.
 
Rapture is just another name for resurrection, but ppl get confused about the timing. There are two, one for the righteous, one for the unrighteous. Bible indicates they will be separated by 1000 years. I myself do not call it rapture, I go by bibical terms the resurrection, as Jesus says he is the resurrection and the life, he does not say he is the rapture or 'im going to rapture you away'. This is for me to avoid confusion, cos theres many unbiblical, fictional teachings about that.

Im sorry but i dont want to get into argument about that and if thats your agenda Im going to ask you to kindly leave this thread OR stick to the topic. You can make your own thread about that.
 
Jesus is different as his blood was pure. He was entirely new, so Im not sure of the claim about Jesus being of Judah....if James also was one. Will have to read bit more about that.

I say that cos Jesus is the lamb that was slain who takes away the sin of all the world, he is never pictured as a lion, and the tribe of Judah is like a lion. Also the devil is like a lion, seeking ppl to devour. And daniel was in the lions den. Christians being thrown to lions. Etc etc.
 
But probably pays to dig deeper into our bibles before coming to any conclusions bout whole nations, since we all a mixed bag.
 
Interesting, the apostles all galileens, residing in Galilee, but spoke in their unknown tongues..when the holy spirit came on pentecost, indicating ...? All different tribes? Ok bit confused now.
 
@Lanolin - you are the one who brought up rapture, and in my view you have incorrectly defined it and as a Christian, I am going to state my views, as I feel compelled. My purpose is not to argue about anything but if I see something I feel is not truth, no matter where I find it, I am going to state what I see.
 
Rapture is just another name for resurrection, but ppl get confused about the timing. There are two, one for the righteous, one for the unrighteous. Bible indicates they will be separated by 1000 years. I myself do not call it rapture, I go by bibical terms the resurrection, as Jesus says he is the resurrection and the life, he does not say he is the rapture or 'im going to rapture you away'. This is for me to avoid confusion, cos theres many unbiblical, fictional teachings about that.

Im sorry but i dont want to get into argument about that and if thats your agenda Im going to ask you to kindly leave this thread OR stick to the topic. You can make your own thread about that.

Go by the biblical term, "harpazo", which means a snatching away in the sense of seizing away something that belongs to you. "Harpazo" is translated as the event called in English, the Rapture, which has its roots in the word indicating "to carry off", or" to snatch away" or "to abduct", which is most appropriate.

Indeed, in keeping with the ancient Jewish Wedding tradition, our beloved Bridegroom will come at a time unbeknownst to the waiting and made ready Bride, and snatch her away to His home in glory.
 
Jesus is different as his blood was pure. He was entirely new, so Im not sure of the claim about Jesus being of Judah....if James also was one. Will have to read bit more about that.

I say that cos Jesus is the lamb that was slain who takes away the sin of all the world, he is never pictured as a lion, and the tribe of Judah is like a lion. Also the devil is like a lion, seeking ppl to devour. And daniel was in the lions den. Christians being thrown to lions. Etc etc.

Jesus is the Lion of Judah.

Revelation 5:5
But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, “Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David’s throne, has won the victory. He is worthy to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
 
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