24 elders

Lanolin said:
Yes. they are the same are they not? Around the throne?
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OF COURSE NOT!

When, if you would only read Daniel, who gives the interpretation of his vision of the four "beasts" (and I have said previously that they are of four earthly empires), why do you continue with this most unlikely quest?

The four living creatures are celestial beings and are not spoken of as "beasts", which is an earthly descriptor.

IMHO, there is a lot of discernment lacking in this thread's incentive.
 
I always took those four creates, one like a lion, one like a calf, one like a human, and one like an eagle as to originating from heaven, not earth.
It seems they are there to worship God eternally, and seems to lead the proceeding, and the elders kneel on their "command".
They must be the praise and worship leaders.;)
 
@Lanolin - I'm curious why Solomon is on your list. According to scripture he did not end well (see below). jewish apocrypha indicates that Solomon used demons to help build the Temple. Jesus refers to Solomon in context with casting out demons.

1Ki_11:1
But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
1Ki_11:2
Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
1Ki_11:4
For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
1Ki_11:5
For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
1Ki_11:6
And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
1Ki_11:7
Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
1Ki_11:9
And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
1Ki_11:11
Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
 
My last post was actually from yesterday. @Arrie03 ? Are you saying the 4 living creatures/beasts are akin to Ezekial's vision? I go with Euphemia that the 4 cannot be world empires or the leaders who initially lead them.
 
The four creatures are heavenly creatures yes. It seems they represnt the four kingdoms? In Daniel.
The 24 elders have crowns. So they could be kings.
I wondered if they are actually prophets though, eg enoch and was it elijah got carried directly to heaven. Also jesus talked about the prophets reward. If the prophets spoke Gods word, werent they directly chosen? The elders also ask who all the saints are snd seem surprised they are from every nation and tongue. They would have been used to only speaking Gods words to Israel only.
 
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Acts 3 seems relevant.
Also...jerusalem killed all their prophets. They didnt like what they said, esp John the baptist. Wouldnt they have places reserved in heaven for them, doing Gods work, serving God? The last prophet of them all, is Jesus of course, and he sits at the right hand of His Father.

Peter says they were 'holy prophets' . The bible is often referred to as the book of the law and prophets. Without the prophets, we children of God would not know anything, what is in the mind of God. They are our elders.
 
Lanolin said:
The four creatures are heavenly creatures yes. It seems they represnt the four kingdoms? In Daniel.
The 24 elders have crowns. So they could be kings.
I wondered if they are actually prophets though, eg enoch and was it elijah got carried directly to heaven. Also jesus talked about the prophets reward. If the prophets spoke Gods word, werent they directly chosen? The elders also ask who all the saints are snd seem surprised they are from every nation and tongue. They would have been used to only speaking Gods words to Israel only.
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No, the four living creatures are NOT FIGURATIVE! They are actual beings who continually exalt God---which is their purpose.
 
Some scripture comes to mind of the priests of the order of melchisidek. I am going to study a bit more of that.

I once read the book of .enoch a few years ago, even though its not printed in our bibles, its mentioned and it did describe heaven and the apocalypse. I remember it talked about the thousands and thousands of angels...but I dont recall if it said anything about elders.
 
I remember reading some of the book of Enoch years ago and I clearly remember feeling that it was not inspired and that much of it seemed like it was made up.
 
I think I read somewhere there are at least 3 books of Enoch and maybe as many as 7. I read one and thought I had read all. Enoch was 6th from Adam, considered a prophet, and the originator of writing. Noah was 10th in line. The book of Enoch was discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls and has been canon in both Jewish and Christian at brief periods of time. Christ and passages in the NT refer to his writings. He was raptured to Heaven and never died. Enoch is considered by many to be important to end times. No coincidence that the DSS were discovered in 1947. I need more work on Enoch and have some materials (DVD's and books) that I need to catch up on.
 
Well, theres a reason its not in the bible.
I dont know if it is completely made up or just someones vision, which could be wrong. I just remember it being quite apolcalyptic.

Theres lots of books around these days claiming to be someones personal vision of heaven.
 
Another scripture coming to mind is from the book of Job about the sons of God meeting and conferring. I know Jesus is Gods only begotten son...but just thinking...are these sons of God being referred to as some priestly order?

The earthly levitical priesthood would then be modelled on this heavenly one. It has 24 worship leaders presiding over the temple\throne.
 
Ive heard some people say these are angels. They could be elders though.

Melchizidek was King of Salem.
As the elders are casting crowns, it might be that they are all Kings.
 
Bene ha elohim is used 6 times in scripture. 5 clearly refer to angels...the 6th is debated often hotly. (gen 6:2 edit)
 
Lanolin said:
Well, theres a reason its not in the bible.
I dont know if it is completely made up or just someones vision, which could be wrong. I just remember it being quite apolcalyptic.

Theres lots of books around these days claiming to be someones personal vision of heaven.
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I highly recommend the book, "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn, where he uses ONLY scripture to show what heaven is like.

 
Lanolin said:
Another scripture coming to mind is from the book of Job about the sons of God meeting and conferring. I know Jesus is Gods only begotten son...but just thinking...are these sons of God being referred to as some priestly order?

The earthly levitical priesthood would then be modelled on this heavenly one. It has 24 worship leaders presiding over the temple\throne.
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God calls his angelic hosts the sons of God.
 
I read that book ages ago, but thought it just repeated what was already in Revelation but with his added opinions.

Just to reiterate, i never said the four beasts are figurative, i dont know where you got that idea. It is Daniel who interprets them in his vision to be representing kingdoms. This is not to say they are not real.

I must have given the book of Enoch away. I remember being quite intrigued with it for a while. When revelation and daniel talks about a book sealed, which book are they talking about?
 
Or scroll..
I think its meant to be the lambs book of life...I just imagine at how HUGE this book or scroll is going to be.
 
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