Abraham

Yea its very simple ...Did the Father speak in regards to the Son? So the Father spoke...Not the son...that does not mean that Jesus is not the Word, nor that they are separate in some way...that means you don't understand these things as you are trying to make others think you do...So your doctrine is complex and WRONG! very simple...:)

Mitspa, it is only complex to the physical mind, and that is what it is supposed to be. The natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolish, neither can he know them, for they are spiritually understood. Why would it be that way? It is so no flesh is going to stand in God's presence. No amount mental thinking, or logical gymnastics will ever figure it out. It has to be learned by God the Father, confirmed by his Word, and revealed by His Spirit.
 
See the carnal mind cannot grasp the Godhead and will make some of the dumbest statements to prove a religious doctrines formed in the carnal mind of men. God is ONE! but no man can say they understand the Godhead and what that really means, unless they claim to be at the level of the Apostles?
 
Mitspa, it is only complex to the physical mind, and that is what it is supposed to be. The natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolish, neither can he know them, for they are spiritually understood. Why would it be that way? It is so no flesh is going to stand in God's presence. No amount mental thinking, or logical gymnastics will ever figure it out. It has to be learned by God the Father, confirmed by his Word, and revealed by His Spirit.
Right that's my point your trying to make yourself appear "spiritual" and your just talking in circles and end up needing to deny the clear reading of the scriptures to prove what you don't really even understand. Its call pride!
 
Matthew 17:5 (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
 
See the carnal mind cannot grasp the Godhead and will make some of the dumbest statements to prove a religious doctrines formed in the carnal mind of men. God is ONE! but no man can say they understand the Godhead and what that really means, unless they claim to be at the level of the Apostles?

Are you trying to tell me that God would create a child of his with out ever being able to know his own Father? How can this be since we are dwelling in Christ who is God?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
 
Are you trying to tell me that God would create a child of his with out ever being able to know his own Father? How can this be since we are dwelling in Christ who is God?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
I did not say anything like that, what I said was that you are pretending to have a knowledge of the "Godhead" that maybe only Paul or John had been given, that this mystery has been debated for thousands of years by the most ardent students and teachers of the scriptures... When I see folks pretending to understand things they don't understand, and making up doctrine contrary to the clear reading of the scriptures, I wonder if they really understand what they are trying to affirm?
 
Matthew 17:5 (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Right, I think the statement was that God cannot speak unless He speaks through Jesus the Son? So I ask for an explanation of this instance, and got a lot of double talk....Instead of just admitting that the issue of the Godhead, is a matter of great revelation and maybe beyond any of us? We get these doctrines that are just formed in pride...and don't allow us all to go forward together in search of the truth. Look I don't understand the Godhead, I don't understand a lot of great mysteries that are hidden, but I don't make up stuff either! "IF ANY MAN THINKS HE KNOWS ANYTHING, LET HIM ADMIT HE KNOWS NOTHING YET AS HE SHOULD KNOW"
 
I did not say anything like that, what I said was that you are pretending to have a knowledge of the "Godhead" that maybe only Paul or John had been given, that this mystery has been debated for thousands of years by the most ardent students and teachers of the scriptures... When I see folks pretending to understand things they don't understand, and making up doctrine contrary to the clear reading of the scriptures, I wonder if they really understand what they are trying to affirm?

I am not pretending to do anything, I am only speaking what I believe to be true. If someone does not like it, that's OK. It does not bother me at all, but it seems to strike a cord with you. All you have to do is not listen to what I say. If you have a better understanding to these things then bring them forth, if not, then it is better not say anything until you do.
 
I am not pretending to do anything, I am only speaking what I believe to be true. If someone does not like it, that's OK. It does not bother me at all, but it seems to strike a cord with you. All you have to do is not listen to what I say. If you have a better understanding to these things then bring them forth, if not, then it is better not say anything until you do.
Well, as I said ...the "Godhead" is a great mystery and its clear that those who pretend to understand this mystery are often just trying to appear to have a understanding that they don't really have, and its sad really that religion makes folks this way.

How much better it would be if we could just admit that we don't have God all figured out, and stop trying to appear to have all the answers? The first lesson that a true bible student learns, is that I will always be seeking to learn. That God is so massive and Christ is so great that 10000 years from now, in heaven, we will be learning of His ways and beauty. Paul after all His years and trips to heaven had this cry in one of his last epistles....."THAT I MIGHT KNOW HIM".....we should be set free from religious pride, and this nonsense where we pretend to understand the Godhead!
 
Mitspa, you seem to kindle a lot of strife where there is no strife to begin with. Why would you do such a thing? If you do not understand something, does that mean nobody understands? Try not to accuse others of something you just can not grasp as truth.
The body of Christ is not dumb, they know truth when they hear it. Everybody here on this forum comes to hear what others believe in, in hopes of learning something or may be teach something. Let everything be done in peace not strife which always brings confusion and every evil work.
 
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the OP asks

What do you people know about Abraham? I've been told that Abraham received miracles from God and even when he didn't see what he believed God would do, or something like this.
 
Genesis 16- Abram and Sarai, his wife, still have not had any children. This was very important in those days, so Sarai was worried. She decided to give her servant/slave to Abram to bear a child. So Abram took Hagar, the servant, as his wife. She became pregnant and, of course, trouble started between the women. Sarai spoke to Abram about this and he said she should do what she thought best.
Hagar despised Sarai, and Sarai mistreated Hagar. Hagar ran away, but the angel of the Lord spoke to her and sent her back to submit to Sarai. He gave this instruction and prophecy:
“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.”
Now she calls him a God, so this may be one of the examples of the pre-incarnate Christ.
She then has a son and Abram names him Ishmael. Abram was 86 years old.
 
Genesis 17- God makes a covenant with Abram. He promises countless descendents and a multitude of nations. He also gives Abram a new name, Abraham, which means father of multitudes. He then says he will always be the God of Abraham and his future generations, and promises the land of Canaan to his descendents. The sign of this covenant will be all males to be circumcised. God then gives Sarai a new name of Sarah, and promises she will bear a son through from which these multitudes come. Abraham bows to God, but can't help but laugh, because he is all but 100 years old and Sarah is 90. Abraham can't believe it, and says just give Ishmael the blessing. God says no, Ishmael will be blessed, but the covenant is confirmed through Sarah's son who will be named Isaac. Abraham then circumcises all in his household. Ishmael at the time is 13 years old.
 
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