Allegorical Verses Literal Interpretation Of Scripture

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There has been a tendency during the Church era to swing between allegorical and a more literal interpretation. Even some of the major theologians have fallen prey to a strict allegorical approach. There are a few scary modern methods used by the liberal theologians today such as redaction criticism and the JEDP approach.

Coming back to prophetic interpretation there is some prophesies which are very literal, such as the ones in Daniel where one can actually work out the number of years until the first coming of Christ and then there are some very metaphorical prophecies which use visual symbolism and dreams - such as Joseph with his dreams of the cows.

Most people who interpret prophec are stuck with a built in bias based on what they have been taught. This bias is especially strong in regards to the pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib beliefs. We all suffer from this bias and we should recognise it within ourselves before we go ahead and do any prophetic interpretation. I agree with Mystman in that we need to identify the prophetic milestones which happen around us - so we can be prepared and so we can lead others to salvation.
 
Major posted:
Unfortunity, some today approach prophecy with a closed mind. They have already determined what they believe to be true and of course since prophesy of the future and has not yet taken place, that leaves it in the mind of the person and there is the problem. Then they begin to "force" Scripture to match their thinking.
They have missed the whole plan of God in which He used prophecy to begin with.
The overall purpose of Bible prophecy is to encourage us to change our lives and help us see where the things we do ultimately lead.
Remember the story of Jonah and his prophecy, which by the way did not take place becasue the city believed and repented. God was clearly serious. He sent His prophet on a mission, even performing a miracle to see that Jonah carried out that mission. He decreed that this evil city would be destroyed. But "when God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened" (Johah 4: 10,; compare Jeremiah:18:7-8).
Interesting you should mention this.
As I have been reading through this thread, I was reminded of Nathan and David after the affair of his adultery and all its attendant sin. As you say, prophesy is about steering us back toward Christ. It is about outfitting us for life with Christ.

I think there needs to be a far greater tolerance of diversity in understanding than is often evident. What one person means by the word 'literal' might not be what another person means and the same with allegory/ symbolism. Take for example Kevin's reference to the so called '70 weeks of Daniel'. He takes that as "very literal", finding in it an accurate forecast of the coming of messiah. OK, so I do not disagree with Kevin's findings, however to me that is not literal at all. To me 70 weeks is around 16 1/2 calendar months; so it is symbolic. Should we just respect each other as brothers in Christ or should we label each other aberrant?
Even Daniel had to have things explained, de-mystified as it were. see Dan 9:23 for example.

Major I think you did put it rather well (and I'm not quoting you) when you said that Scripture is literal except when context indicates that it is not.
 
Just read through and I see that calvin has just dropped the Ultra Left Wing Bomb Shell with the slow but certain death problem, Tolerance. In the proper evaluation of those that are following God and are not busy with trying to reinterpret the scriptures and thereby tell God what He meant to say, there are no more tolerant people in the world than the followers of God... until the correct use of hermeneutics is discarded in order to lead the young in Christ into Hell, we do then become intolerant, just as the Follower should and we then fight the good fight.

There is, considered to be a premise by the Lost Man, a truth about scripture that is inescapable. Scripture is self interpreting! The Lost Man, both inside and outside of the Church contend that by the Follower of God, by insisting that the Bible is self interpreting is guilty of using Circular Logic. Nothing can ever be further from the truth. To begin with God is the only truly unique being, person, spirit or whatever you might choose, that is or can be known. Now, that being the case, add to it the truth that God, is the one and only Infinite God and everything else, anywhere is finite and relies on the Infinite power of God to maintain it's existence. There is not one person on this planet that can ever understand God, like God does.

So it is then that the God fearing Christian, being called of God, begins to research the only Owners Guide, that is inspired and directed by the Owner and as he studies he or she is indwelt by the promised Spirit Comforter and begins to grow closer and closer to the One True God. Looks like a straight line to me.
 
Major posted:

Interesting you should mention this.
As I have been reading through this thread, I was reminded of Nathan and David after the affair of his adultery and all its attendant sin. As you say, prophesy is about steering us back toward Christ. It is about outfitting us for life with Christ.

I think there needs to be a far greater tolerance of diversity in understanding than is often evident. What one person means by the word 'literal' might not be what another person means and the same with allegory/ symbolism. Take for example Kevin's reference to the so called '70 weeks of Daniel'. He takes that as "very literal", finding in it an accurate forecast of the coming of messiah. OK, so I do not disagree with Kevin's findings, however to me that is not literal at all. To me 70 weeks is around 16 1/2 calendar months; so it is symbolic. Should we just respect each other as brothers in Christ or should we label each other aberrant?
Even Daniel had to have things explained, de-mystified as it were. see Dan 9:23 for example.

Major I think you did put it rather well (and I'm not quoting you) when you said that Scripture is literal except when context indicates that it is not.

Calvin,
Merry Christmas. We all have our own thoughts on Biblical things, that is for sure. I will not argue your right to believe as you do because we both have that right. I will instead only speak to the subject at hand as why I believe it to be literal.

IMO there are solid reasons why the numbers in Daniel’s prophecy should be taken literally. First, chapter 9 opens with Daniel realizing from Jeremiah’s writings that Israel’s captivity would last 70 years. These were literal years. Since the prophecy delivered by Gabriel to Daniel in 9:24-27 is related to the 70-year captivity, it follows that the 70 weeks of years are equally literal. Second, since definite numbers are used in the prophecy (7, 62, and 1 weeks), it would be strange indeed for such odd numbers to not have literal meaning. The question then must be...........................
“Why should definite numbers be applied to periods of indefinite lengths?” Nothing in the context suggests a non-literal use of numbers in this prophecy.

We can see from the beginning of chapter 9:2, that Daniel had read about “the number of years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.” The two passages which Daniel surely studied were Jeremiah 25:11-12 and 29:10-14. Both texts clearly speak of Israel’s Babylonian captivity as limited to a 70-year period. Both passages also blend into their texts, statements that look forward to a time of ultimate fulfillment and blessing for the nation of Israel. This is why Daniel appears to think that when the nation returns to their land, then ultimate blessing (the millennial kingdom) will coincide with their return. Daniel’s thinking about the timing of God’s plan for Israel occasioned the Lord’s sending of Gabriel “to give you insight with understanding” (Dan. 9:22). This speaks to you comment above of..........

Even Daniel had to have things explained, de-mystified as it were. see Dan 9:23 for example.
The truth is that none of the prophets actually understood their prophecies. They simply gave out what God gave to them.

So, what then is the CONTEXT? God was not yet ready to bring history to its destined final climax. Thus, He told Daniel that He was going stretch out history by seventy times seven years (i.e., 490 years).
Paraphrazing the said Scriptures we can understand......................." Daniel, you have been thinking that the final restoration will be accomplished and the full covenant blessings will be realized at the close of these seventy years of exile in Babylon. On this point you are mistaken. You are not now on the eve of the fulfillment of this wonderful prediction. Instead of its being brought to pass at this time, I am sent to inform you that there is decreed upon your people and the Holy City a period of "seventy sevens" of years before they can be realized. At the conclusion of this period of 490 years the nation of Israel will be reconciled and will be reinstated into the divine favor and will enter into the enjoyment of all the covenant blessings.

As I said........this will change no-ones view but maybe will help you to understand where the LITERALIAST'S point of view stems from.
 
I have hesitated to respond because I will probably incure an argument I am not really looking for. After all what is written is written and while I can point out what I see written it is for others to judge for themselves the words Daniel has written in the pages of his book. But it still surprises me that even when people say we must take the words of Daniel literally (as in meaning what they say and saying what they mean) so very, very few people actually do.

We see from Dan 9:2 that Daniel is meditating on the prophecy of Jeremiah that Israel will be exiled in Babylon for 70 years and then restored to Jerusalem and the promised Land. Jeremiah also speaks of the coming King the Lord will raise up (the Messiah)

Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

HOWEVER we also know from Dan 9:11-13 that Daniel is relating the prophecy of Jeremiah back to the sevenfold increasing curses Moses prophesied (Leviticus 26:14-46) and aknowledging this 70 year exile as part of those curses.

Dan 9:11-13 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

However Daniel is praying as if this is the last of the curses and not the second last of the curses. But we know from Jeremiah 11:8 (and other places in Jeremiah) that ALL the curses are to come upon Israel and they cannot escape them.

Jer 11:8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not.

When we properly understand this we realise that what Gabriel is telling Daniel is that there is still one more SEVENfold increasing curse yet to come.

Dan 9:23-24 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. 24 Seventy weeks are determined (decreed) upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

In other words Gabriel is telling Daniel there is still one more sevenfold increased curse (70 years x 7) to come. He ALSO tells Daniel when the Messiah is to come. But while Gabriel gives Daniel a start date for the coming of the Messiah he does not give him a start date for the 70 x 7 years, only that there is still 70 x 7 years of the curse to come.

But I note somebody mentioning the restoration of Israel. BUT the sevenfold increasing curses of Leviticus do not end with the restoration of Israel, they end with the total DESTRUCTION of Israel and the scattering of the power of the Holy people among the heathen nations. So Gabriel is speaking of the coming destruction of Israel and the scattering of the power of the Holy people, NOT the restoration of Israel. AND this is to happen AFTER the anointing of the Most Holy (see the end of Dan 9:24)

To emphasis that the prophecies of Gabriel ENDS with the total destruction of Israel and the scattering of the power of the Holy people among the heathen nations in accordance with the last of the sevenfold increasing curses Dan 12:7 emphatically declares it:-

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

And from official world history we know that:-

1. The destruction of the LAST city / high place / and stronghold of Israel (MASADA) and the demise and scattering of Israel as a nation occurred in 74AD, Circa 3 1/2 years after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, which itself was about 3 1/2 years after the Daily Sacrifice on behalf of the Roman Emperor was stopped in circa 67AD.

2. 74AD is precicely 490 JEWISH years (70 sevens) after they finished restoring Jerusalem in 410/409BC.

We KNOW when the scattering of the power of the Holy people occurred in accordance with the last of the sevenfold increasing curses of Leviticus 26:14-46. Daniel 9-12 CANNOT be understood literally except that it be understood that the prophecies in them (the "these things" of Daniel 12:7) were ALL fulfilled BEFORE the end of 74AD (and official world history bears witness that they were indeed)

Anything other than that is not in accordance with what Daniel 9-12 ACTUALLY DECLARES by the words Daniel himself wrote.

Just declaring the FACTS, not looking for an argument. These are the facts of the matter - believe them or not as you choose.
 
If you are referring to me as the one to argue with you...........you are mistaken.

I simply do not agree with your opinion of rejecting Daniels 70 week prophecy by believing it took place in 70 AD or 74 AD or any other historical date.

IMO, we are living in the 69th Week of Daniel, which is the church age and we are waiting on the Rapture which is then followed by Daniel's 70th Week.

You will of course say that you are NOT a "Preterist person", and that is OK because I really do not care, but the facts are the facts as you said, and what you posted is an fact the Preterist view.

From Theopedia.com. Freely redistributable............
Preterism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ’s birth, especially associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning past, since this view deems certain biblical prophecies as past, or already fulfilled.

Preterism is most dramatically contrasted with Futurism, the view that most prophecies regarding the End times, and passages referring to Last Days, Great Tribulation, and Judgment are still future and will immediately precede the return of Christ. Proponents of preterist views generally fall in one of two categories: Partial Preterism or Full Preterism.

Partial Preterism, the older of the two views, holds that prophecies such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a “judgment-coming” of Christ were fulfilled circa 70 AD when the Roman general (and future Emperor) Titus sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Jewish Temple, putting a permanent stop to the daily animal sacrifices. It identifies “Babylon the great” (Revelation 17–18) with the ancient pagan City of Rome or Jerusalem.

As you said and I agree.....no need to argue. It is what it is!
 
Thanks for your reply Major. As I see it we are probably talking of two different 'literalisms' :). As for myself I am probably more literal than a 'literalist' is. To me, 70 weeks from a literal view is 490 days each consisting of 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds (approx).
I think you are of the understanding that the prophesied 70 weeks literally refers to 70 weeks of years or 490 years. I actually agree with 490 years also, though I do not use the word 'Literal' here, but maybe something like Prophetic metaphor. I might get sloppy and just say 'symbolic' sometimes.
When confronted with the question of preterism, futurism, A-Milenialism, Pre-Milenialism, or post-milenialism or any other 'ism' I just ask "which one is Jesus?...I'll go with that!"
Truth is, I don't like being put in a box and I try to avoid putting others in a box.
 
Thanks for your reply Major. As I see it we are probably talking of two different 'literalisms' :). As for myself I am probably more literal than a 'literalist' is. To me, 70 weeks from a literal view is 490 days each consisting of 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds (approx).
I think you are of the understanding that the prophesied 70 weeks literally refers to 70 weeks of years or 490 years. I actually agree with 490 years also, though I do not use the word 'Literal' here, but maybe something like Prophetic metaphor. I might get sloppy and just say 'symbolic' sometimes.
When confronted with the question of preterism, futurism, A-Milenialism, Pre-Milenialism, or post-milenialism or any other 'ism' I just ask "which one is Jesus?...I'll go with that!"
Truth is, I don't like being put in a box and I try to avoid putting others in a box.

Hi Calvin,

When we speak of literal we must speak in terms of the original writing which was in Hebrew not English. In this instance there is no direct equivalent of the Hebrew word "shabuwa" (pronounced: shaw-boo’- ah). It is a term used in conjunction with the unique Hebrew calendar ordained by the Lord which is based around cycles of seven. (Seven days, seven years, seven times seven years, etc.) The English calendar does not have seven year cycles. "Weeks" is really a substitute word. Some translations substitue "sevens" which to my mind is a far less confusing way to translate it.

It is not the only place where one has to take care in understanding that the English word used in a translation may not properly reflect the meaning the writer originally intended which is why any serious Bible study should have on hand a good Hebrew and Greek concordance or Lexicon such as "Strong's" to give insight into the words originally used by the writer to convey the meaning intended.

So it IS literal, but in the Hebrew "shabuwa", not in the normal English meaning of the word "weeks".
 
If you are referring to me as the one to argue with you...........you are mistaken.

I simply do not agree with your opinion of rejecting Daniels 70 week prophecy by believing it took place in 70 AD or 74 AD or any other historical date.

IMO, we are living in the 69th Week of Daniel, which is the church age and we are waiting on the Rapture which is then followed by Daniel's 70th Week.

You will of course say that you are NOT a "Preterist person", and that is OK because I really do not care, but the facts are the facts as you said, and what you posted is an fact the Preterist view.

From Theopedia.com. Freely redistributable............
Preterism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ’s birth, especially associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning past, since this view deems certain biblical prophecies as past, or already fulfilled.

Preterism is most dramatically contrasted with Futurism, the view that most prophecies regarding the End times, and passages referring to Last Days, Great Tribulation, and Judgment are still future and will immediately precede the return of Christ. Proponents of preterist views generally fall in one of two categories: Partial Preterism or Full Preterism.

Partial Preterism, the older of the two views, holds that prophecies such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a “judgment-coming” of Christ were fulfilled circa 70 AD when the Roman general (and future Emperor) Titus sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Jewish Temple, putting a permanent stop to the daily animal sacrifices. It identifies “Babylon the great” (Revelation 17–18) with the ancient pagan City of Rome or Jerusalem.

As you said and I agree.....no need to argue. It is what it is!

As you well know. like Calvin, I am not one for sticking people in boxes and whacking labels on them. It leads to stereotyping and a tendency to prejudge people, not unlike labelling people according to the colour of their skin or their country of origin. A kind of "spiritual racism" as it were. I kinda like
Calvin's idea. Whatever box Christ is in then please stick me in there.:)

BUT I am curious about something. If "Partial Preterism" is the belief that SOME of the prophecies of Daniel have already come to pass then it is clear that ANYBODY who believes Christ is the promised Messiah, was anointed the King of Israel, and IS the anointed Holy One Gabriel spoke of, that Israel was destroyed and the Holy People scattered among the heathen nations in 70-74AD after the Daily Sacrifices were stopped, and so on and so on, MUST, by definition be a "Partial Preterist". For all these prophesies are an INTEGRAL part of the prophesies of Daniel 9-12 and are not set apart as "early fulfilment" prophesies while others are marked as "later fulfilment" prophesies. Daniel simply does not do that in what He has written.

What is more is Daniel 12:7 declares emphatically that when it is accomplished to scatter the power of the Holy People (clearly in accordance with Leviticus 26:14-46) all these things (prophesied) shall be FINISHED. Therefore a futurist cannot believe that in 70-74AD Israel was totally destroyed and its people scattered among the Heathen nations. They cannot believe it actually happened because to do so is to admit that the event that marks the END of the prophesies has already occurred.

In short to be a futurist requires that you must ignore both the actual words of Daniel AND the words of officially recorded history and not believe Jesus is really the Messiah and already anointed King of Israel because a futurist who believes that so much of Daniel's prophecies have already come to pass is really a "Partial Preterist" at least, not a futurist.

So what I am curious about Major is what do you label YOURSELF as??

(Me I'm that awkward Chrissy present that refuses to be wrapped up or made to fit into any of the gift boxes that are available.:))

PS:
I simply do not agree with your opinion of rejecting Daniels 70 week prophecy by believing it took place in 70 AD or 74 AD or any other historical date.

How can one REJECT Daniel's 70 week prophecy by believing it has come to pass???? Surely it is those who do not admit a prophecy has come to pass when it actually HAS come to pass that reject it, not those who recognise it as fulfilled prophecy?? Perhaps it was a typo on your part.
 
Thanks for your reply Major. As I see it we are probably talking of two different 'literalisms' :). As for myself I am probably more literal than a 'literalist' is. To me, 70 weeks from a literal view is 490 days each consisting of 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds (approx).
I think you are of the understanding that the prophesied 70 weeks literally refers to 70 weeks of years or 490 years. I actually agree with 490 years also, though I do not use the word 'Literal' here, but maybe something like Prophetic metaphor. I might get sloppy and just say 'symbolic' sometimes.
When confronted with the question of preterism, futurism, A-Milenialism, Pre-Milenialism, or post-milenialism or any other 'ism' I just ask "which one is Jesus?...I'll go with that!"
Truth is, I don't like being put in a box and I try to avoid putting others in a box.

A quick PS:

Something else important that people often forget when dealing with prophecy is that the JEWISH year is only 360 days long while the BC/AD dates of history are in modern years of 365 days. There is also a bit of a quircky thing that happens when passing between BC and AD dates because there is no "year zero". It means you have to add a year whenever you have to cross over.

It is important to make a proper conversion (using the equivalent number of days) to account for the different way the modern world counts years to the way the Bible does. Several of my Reality Bender videos on Daniel's prophesies demonstrate the conversion process if you are interested (on the assumption you may not be familiar with the process. If you are then please ignore this and consider it advice for the benefit of others who may not:oops:.)
 
A quick PS:

Something else important that people often forget when dealing with prophecy is that the JEWISH year is only 360 days long while the BC/AD dates of history are in modern years of 365 days. There is also a bit of a quircky thing that happens when passing between BC and AD dates because there is no "year zero". It means you have to add a year whenever you have to cross over.

It is important to make a proper conversion (using the equivalent number of days) to account for the different way the modern world counts years to the way the Bible does. Several of my Reality Bender videos on Daniel's prophesies demonstrate the conversion process if you are interested (on the assumption you may not be familiar with the process. If you are then please ignore this and consider it advice for the benefit of others who may not:oops:.)

Yes/I am very familiar with the Jewish calendar days and I agree on the 360 days.
 
As you well know. like Calvin, I am not one for sticking people in boxes and whacking labels on them. It leads to stereotyping and a tendency to prejudge people, not unlike labelling people according to the colour of their skin or their country of origin. A kind of "spiritual racism" as it were. I kinda like
Calvin's idea. Whatever box Christ is in then please stick me in there.:)

BUT I am curious about something. If "Partial Preterism" is the belief that SOME of the prophecies of Daniel have already come to pass then it is clear that ANYBODY who believes Christ is the promised Messiah, was anointed the King of Israel, and IS the anointed Holy One Gabriel spoke of, that Israel was destroyed and the Holy People scattered among the heathen nations in 70-74AD after the Daily Sacrifices were stopped, and so on and so on, MUST, by definition be a "Partial Preterist". For all these prophesies are an INTEGRAL part of the prophesies of Daniel 9-12 and are not set apart as "early fulfilment" prophesies while others are marked as "later fulfilment" prophesies. Daniel simply does not do that in what He has written.

What is more is Daniel 12:7 declares emphatically that when it is accomplished to scatter the power of the Holy People (clearly in accordance with Leviticus 26:14-46) all these things (prophesied) shall be FINISHED. Therefore a futurist cannot believe that in 70-74AD Israel was totally destroyed and its people scattered among the Heathen nations. They cannot believe it actually happened because to do so is to admit that the event that marks the END of the prophesies has already occurred.

In short to be a futurist requires that you must ignore both the actual words of Daniel AND the words of officially recorded history and not believe Jesus is really the Messiah and already anointed King of Israel because a futurist who believes that so much of Daniel's prophecies have already come to pass is really a "Partial Preterist" at least, not a futurist.

So what I am curious about Major is what do you label YOURSELF as??

(Me I'm that awkward Chrissy present that refuses to be wrapped up or made to fit into any of the gift boxes that are available.:))

PS:

How can one REJECT Daniel's 70 week prophecy by believing it has come to pass???? Surely it is those who do not admit a prophecy has come to pass when it actually HAS come to pass that reject it, not those who recognise it as fulfilled prophecy?? Perhaps it was a typo on your part.

And I like you, did not place you into a box. I simply pointed out WHAT the theology is of THOSE who believe in Daniels prophesy of 70 weeks as being in the past.

You are a very intelligent person misty, and you are aware that your question of.......................
"How can one REJECT Daniel's 70 week prophecy by believing it has come to pass????"-----is actually not a question at all. It is however a statement of your understanding of the time it falls into.
I know that you are aware that the differance we have here is that you place it in the 70-74 AD timeframe and I place it still yet in the future and in fact state that the 70th Week is The Tribulation Period that is the last 7 years before Armageddon.

Just as a question......Daniel 9:27 says that there will be a 7 year peace treaty signed between the A/C and the Jews. In the 70 AD theology you propose...who was the A/C and since the entire Jewish nation was dispursed, WHO was the head of the nation of Israel that signed the 7 year peace treaty in 70 or 74 AD?? In fact, since the Nation of Isreal was dispursed, was there a peace treaty signed at all???

Now....having searched the history books, I can NOT find a 7 year peace treaty between Rome and Israel in the 70/74 time frame simple because Rome was the victor and had no need to have peace at all. The whole process in 70 AD was to put down the Jewish rebellion which they did completly.

I am going to do some Bible teaching here and I do not apologize for the length of my responce. It is rather long and if this subject has no interest to you, just do not go any further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since this thread is about "LITERAL verses ALLAGORICAL interpretations of Scripture, alow me to say that there are many people who are confused about the proof for a literal end-times 7 year period. Martin Luther laid down the correct hermeneutics methodology for viewing scriptures hundreds of years ago, and all seminaries teach the process. We first view any scripture at face value, with a literal exegesis (explanation). This method applies to all scripture, including prophecies. In doing this, we recognize there are often figurative symbols embedded within a literal storyline of prophecy. The error common among many, is to view all prophecy as figurative or symbolic, which robs the reader of any sensible meaning. It also leads to heresies and gnostic interpretations.

First, let me outline the 7 year period in a synopsis for you, and then you can clearly see it as each piece of evidence is added. I do this not necessisarily for mistman because he has done study and is of a different opinion, which is of course his choice to do so, but I do it for others who may be reading this transaction and find it interesting.

The seven year end-times period begins with the peace treaty of prophecy (called the covenant with death). The peace treaty will be between Israel and the surrounding nations, brokered by international powers. Israel will give away land in exchange for an internationally guaranteed peace. Half of Jerusalem will be given away. In exchange, Israel will be given half of the Temple Mount on which to build a Temple, unobstructed by Moslems. The evidence is that a wall will be built just north of the Dome of the Rock, separating the Temple Mount into a Jewish section and a Moslem section. In the middle of the end-times 7 year period, a person called the beast (antichrist) will forcibly stop the literal sacrifices and grain offerings taking place at the Jewish Temple. He will falsely declare himself to be God on earth and demand worship. This is the abomination of desolation.
At the end of the 7-year period, the Lord Jesus Christ will return to reign on the earth with the armies of heaven. He will subdue all armies and governments. He will touch down on the Mount of Olives, cross the Kidron Valley, and enter the Temple Mount through the now-closed Eastern Gate. He will enter the Jewish Temple and take His seat. All eyes will see Him, it will not be some sort of invisible appearance. IT WILL BE A LITERAL EVENT!

Daniel 9:27 ....
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The week is a week of years. At the beginning, one person brokers a peace treaty, and that person later stops the sacrifices and grain offerings. Then comes another person who makes an abomination of desolation at the Temple. Finally, a complete destruction is decreed to be poured out on the second person who performed the abomination of desolation. Straightforward, simple, and easy to understand; but if Daniel 9:27 were all we had, then it wouldn't constitute enough evidence to convince most people. Let's go on and look at corroborating evidence.
In Daniel 12:11, it states specifically that from the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. The 1290 days is when Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah will come to reign on the earth.

Daniel 12:9-12 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."
Clearly, the above verse corroborates a piece of the outline from Daniel 9:27. We are told that the sacrifices will be stopped and that an abomination of desolation will be performed. However, we are also told an important new piece of information, namely, that there would be 1290 days from the abomination of desolation until a certain event. In the context of the chapter, Daniel 12, the 1290 days is the arrival of the Messiah to rescue Israel. The 1290 days from the abomination of desolation is what Christians call the Second Coming, and the Jewish people call it the First Coming.
The 1335 days points to the prophetic fulfillment of Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), where Ezekiel 34 is fulfilled with the judgment of the Jewish people by the Messiah. Their sins will be forgiven and they will be saved, as written also in Romans 11:25-29. The 45 days between the 1290 and 1335 days is when the armies and governments attack the Messiah and are defeated, and all remaining people on earth are summoned for judgment.

Before we leave Daniel 12, I'd like you to note Daniel 12:7, that the beast (antichrist) will be allowed to shatter the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (1 + 2 + 0.5 = 3.5 years).

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus sat down with Peter, James, John, and Andrew, and explained the end-times period. In it, He spoke of the abomination of desolation occurring, and then the last half of the 7 year period would begin with the Great Tribulation period.

Matthew 24:15-16
"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains........
Mark 13:14
"But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:20-21
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains", .......
While the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, that was not the fulfillment of these verses (as the preterists and historicists claim). The sequence of the prophetic events from Daniel 9:12 and Daniel 12 is that a peace treaty would have to be struck 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation. Then the sacrifices are stopped, and the abomination of desolation performed in the Temple takes place where a person declares himself falsely to be God in the holy place of the Temple. Only after those events do the armies surround Jerusalem. Then exactly 1290 days later the Messiah comes visibly to reign on the earth. 45 days after the Second Coming, all the people of the earth are judged. During the 45 days, all governments and armies on earth are defeated and subdued.

In 70 AD, armies did surround Jerusalem, but it was before the sacrifices were stopped. There was no abomination of desolation where a person declared himself falsely to be God and demanded worship. There was no mark of the beast system (666), where if a person refused the mark, they couldn't buy or sell. Finally, the Second Coming visibly did not take place 1290 days after the destruction in 70 AD. The Roman armies continued their dominance for hundreds of years. The people of the earth were not judged visibly standing before the Messiah. And Isaiah 65 was not fulfilled where people's lifespans increased so much, that a youth would die at the age of one hundred years.

Let's go on with our proofs of the 7 year period. In Rev 12:6, Israel (the woman, here is one of those figurative symbols within a literal timeline) flees into the wilderness for 1260 days, persecuted by the world system under the antichrist, a minion of satan.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for 1260 days.
Revelation 12:14 And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.
The first thing to notice is that verses 6 & 14 tell the same thing, but the timeframe is defined differently. 1260 days = time , times, and half a time = 3.5 (years). This is the same exact thing mentioned in Daniel 12:7, except that Daniel 7 calls them the holy people, Israel. The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Revelation 12:4-5 amplifies that point, since it states that the woman gives birth to the Messiah, the one who will rule all nations. The woman is not Mary, since in Daniel 12 and elsewhere, the prophecies speak of the Jewish people when it talks about the same exact prophecies. Christians all know that Yeshua (Jesus) was born and lived as a Jew.
In Revelation 13:5, we are given an additional corroborating piece of the puzzle.

Revelation 13:5-7 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for 42 months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue was given to him.
Revelation 13 tells us the same thing as Revelation 12 and Daniel 12, that the beast (antichrist) has an allotted period of power of 42 months, and he will persecute the Jewish people for that timeframe. He will also persecute the Christians as is shown in Revelation 12:17.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
While the evidence is that satan through the antichrist will persecute Christians too for a season, the main point is that the persecution of the Jewish people is for 42 months. Therefore:
1260 days = time, times, and half a time = 42 months = 3.5 years
I suppose that God added these different methods of describing the same timeframe, in order that people wouldn't foolishly say that it is a day for a year and the 1260 days is actually 1260 years. It is described in every possible way, to avoid misunderstanding the point. The 1260 days of allotted power for the antichrist are actually 24-hour days, and equal 42 months, or 3.5 years. Daniel 7 also describes the allotted time of power of the beast (antichrist) and it is the same 3.5 year period.

Daniel 7:25 And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Here we again have the abomination of desolation mentioned, when the beast will speak out against the Most High by falsely declaring himself to be God. He will be allowed to persecute the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (3.5 times = 3.5 years = 1260 days = 42 months).

Which takes us back to Daniel 9:27 and the week of years. All of the above shows that included in the last half of the week of years is the 1260 days=3.5 years=3.5 times=42 months of the antichrist's allotted period of power on the earth. All of the 1260 days is included in the 1290 days in Daniel 12:11, from the time of the abomination of desolation until Yeshua (Jesus) comes to reign on the earth.

The only way that someone can not believe this proof, is if they suddenly say they take all prophecy figuratively and don't believe the Bible is literal. The internal proofs for a literal end-times 7 year period are extremely strong, with the last half being 1290 days long.

I am very grateful for mismanns question as it opened the door for me to once again get out he LITERAL Word of God.
 
Mistman asks me.............
"So what I am curious about Major is what do you label YOURSELF as??"

I am just an old country boy blessed by God with a wonderful family. God in His grace allowed me the gift of salvation and through hard determined work, the knowledge of His precious Word.

But I think that your real question is ....."why do I believe in a FUTURISTIC approach to prophecy". Here is why I take the futureistic/literal approach..............................................

First of all I am a LITERALIST. I accept the Scriptures as they are written without me adding anything to them. I do not try to make any Scripture fit my opinions.

Second....the beast of Revelation 11-19 is the same as Daniels fourth beast in Daniel 7 which is that yet future finalkingdom which is destroyed just prior to the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Third.....the FIVE time specifications of the book of the Revelation, 11:2; 11:3; 12:6-14; 13:5.......upon study harmonize perfectly with the time specifications and events which surround the yet future 7 year period we kpwn as Daniel's 70th Week. (Dan. 9:27; 8:25; 12:7).

Fourth....the FUTURISTIC approach is the only one that accomplishes the purpose enunciated in Revelation 1:1..."TO SHOW UNTO HIS SERVANTS THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS". The "liberal/gnostic approach denies this ability. the ALLEGORICAL (fable) method spiritualizes away the things revealed: the PRETERIST approach relegates that which is to be revealed to the past: the HISTORICAL approach presents items so veiled that thay cannot be identified even if they are completed: and the TOPICAL approach sees only general trends rather than future "things/events".

The FUTURISTIC approach does not resort to unwarranted myths or stories of the symbolic as well as literal details of the Apocalypose as the HISTORIAL & TOPICAL views do.

The FUTURISTIC view yeilds a premillennial coming of Christ while the TOPICAL view with its cyclic pattern places Rev. 20 before Rev. 19 & logically then leads to AMILLENNIALISM.

Well there you have it my friend. More fuel for the fodder. ENJOY!
 
Hi Calvin,

When we speak of literal we must speak in terms of the original writing which was in Hebrew not English. In this instance there is no direct equivalent of the Hebrew word "shabuwa" (pronounced: shaw-boo’- ah). It is a term used in conjunction with the unique Hebrew calendar ordained by the Lord which is based around cycles of seven. (Seven days, seven years, seven times seven years, etc.) The English calendar does not have seven year cycles. "Weeks" is really a substitute word. Some translations substitue "sevens" which to my mind is a far less confusing way to translate it.

It is not the only place where one has to take care in understanding that the English word used in a translation may not properly reflect the meaning the writer originally intended which is why any serious Bible study should have on hand a good Hebrew and Greek concordance or Lexicon such as "Strong's" to give insight into the words originally used by the writer to convey the meaning intended.

So it IS literal, but in the Hebrew "shabuwa", not in the normal English meaning of the word "weeks".

Thanks for your reply. My Strong's sheds no light on what you say, however I thought the Septuagint ought to reveal something. Sure enough, It renders the matter as periods of seven, just as you say.:cool:
blessings,
calvin
 
I have hesitated to respond because I will probably incure an argument I am not really looking for. After all what is written is written and while I can point out what I see written it is for others to judge for themselves the words Daniel has written in the pages of his book. But it still surprises me that even when people say we must take the words of Daniel literally (as in meaning what they say and saying what they mean) so very, very few people actually do.
Like Major, Iḿ not going to argue with you but because you are of this opinion I will ask you to really read the Bible. When Jesus was teaching He taught of the Wide and the Narrow Gates and the illustration there being that the entry into Heaven is limited and most of the worlds people will go to Hell! Now, we know that admission into Heaven is by faith only and we know that only a few will make it. You might want to consider this when making such a statement. If everyone agrees with you, and yes, most do... well, think about it.
 
Thanks for your reply. My Strong's sheds no light on what you say, however I thought the Septuagint ought to reveal something. Sure enough, It renders the matter as periods of seven, just as you say.:cool:
blessings,
calvin

Seventy weeks” or 70 periods of 7 equaling 490 ( 70 x 7). The word for week in Hebrew means seven (òáLÚ, shebha)
and could be used for days or years. The same root is used in Leviticus 25:8 regarding the year of Jubilee. The celebration of Jubilee takes place in 50th year after 7-periods of 7-years or 49 years. The 490 represents years and not days.

Gabriel tells Daniel, 490 years are “Determined for your people”, Israel and “Your holy city”, Jerusalem. This sets the parameters around this clock. The time period is 490 years and the years revolve around Daniel’s people Israel/Jews and his holy city, Jerusalem. Within these parameters seven events will take place:

1. To finish the transgression,
2. To make an end of sins,
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. To seal up vision
6. and prophecy,
7. To anoint the Most Holy.

Transgression and sin are as real today as they were in Daniel’s day. War, murder and robbery are a staple of everyday life. Yet, we read within 490 years there will be “An end of sins”, and the arrival of “Everlasting righteousness”. More than 490 years have passed since Daniel penned these words 2500 years ago. Why have they not been fulfilled?

The seven events of Daniel 9:24 speak of a future time when the Messiah will reign on Earth. Each of the events listed by Gabriel speak specifically to the Messianic era. Many mistakenly apply this prophecy to the world, when Gabriel told Daniel it involved his people and his city. The Jews and Jerusalem are God’s sign to the nations. By observing Jerusalem and the Jewish people, we can see & understand God’s clock.

The 490 years were “cut” or determined on Jerusalem and the Jewish people. The total time period,490-years, is cut (the Hebrew word for determine #rxCharats means
means to cut) on Jerusalem and the Jewish people. At the completion of the Prophetic Clock, the seven events will be completed on the Jews and Jerusalem, and by proxy to the rest of the world, but Jerusalem and the Jews are the key to understanding the time. By the completion of the 490-year period these events will be completed on Jerusalem and the Jewish people.
 
And I like you, did not place you into a box. I simply pointed out WHAT the theology is of THOSE who believe in Daniels prophesy of 70 weeks as being in the past.

You are a very intelligent person misty, and you are aware that your question of.......................
"How can one REJECT Daniel's 70 week prophecy by believing it has come to pass????"-----is actually not a question at all. It is however a statement of your understanding of the time it falls into.
I know that you are aware that the differance we have here is that you place it in the 70-74 AD timeframe and I place it still yet in the future and in fact state that the 70th Week is The Tribulation Period that is the last 7 years before Armageddon.

Just as a question......Daniel 9:27 says that there will be a 7 year peace treaty signed between the A/C and the Jews. In the 70 AD theology you propose...who was the A/C and since the entire Jewish nation was dispursed, WHO was the head of the nation of Israel that signed the 7 year peace treaty in 70 or 74 AD?? In fact, since the Nation of Isreal was dispursed, was there a peace treaty signed at all???

Now....having searched the history books, I can NOT find a 7 year peace treaty between Rome and Israel in the 70/74 time frame simple because Rome was the victor and had no need to have peace at all. The whole process in 70 AD was to put down the Jewish rebellion which they did completly.

I am going to do some Bible teaching here and I do not apologize for the length of my responce. It is rather long and if this subject has no interest to you, just do not go any further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since this thread is about "LITERAL verses ALLAGORICAL interpretations of Scripture, alow me to say that there are many people who are confused about the proof for a literal end-times 7 year period. Martin Luther laid down the correct hermeneutics methodology for viewing scriptures hundreds of years ago, and all seminaries teach the process. We first view any scripture at face value, with a literal exegesis (explanation). This method applies to all scripture, including prophecies. In doing this, we recognize there are often figurative symbols embedded within a literal storyline of prophecy. The error common among many, is to view all prophecy as figurative or symbolic, which robs the reader of any sensible meaning. It also leads to heresies and gnostic interpretations.

First, let me outline the 7 year period in a synopsis for you, and then you can clearly see it as each piece of evidence is added. I do this not necessisarily for mistman because he has done study and is of a different opinion, which is of course his choice to do so, but I do it for others who may be reading this transaction and find it interesting.

The seven year end-times period begins with the peace treaty of prophecy (called the covenant with death). The peace treaty will be between Israel and the surrounding nations, brokered by international powers. Israel will give away land in exchange for an internationally guaranteed peace. Half of Jerusalem will be given away. In exchange, Israel will be given half of the Temple Mount on which to build a Temple, unobstructed by Moslems. The evidence is that a wall will be built just north of the Dome of the Rock, separating the Temple Mount into a Jewish section and a Moslem section. In the middle of the end-times 7 year period, a person called the beast (antichrist) will forcibly stop the literal sacrifices and grain offerings taking place at the Jewish Temple. He will falsely declare himself to be God on earth and demand worship. This is the abomination of desolation.
At the end of the 7-year period, the Lord Jesus Christ will return to reign on the earth with the armies of heaven. He will subdue all armies and governments. He will touch down on the Mount of Olives, cross the Kidron Valley, and enter the Temple Mount through the now-closed Eastern Gate. He will enter the Jewish Temple and take His seat. All eyes will see Him, it will not be some sort of invisible appearance. IT WILL BE A LITERAL EVENT!

Daniel 9:27 ....
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The week is a week of years. At the beginning, one person brokers a peace treaty, and that person later stops the sacrifices and grain offerings. Then comes another person who makes an abomination of desolation at the Temple. Finally, a complete destruction is decreed to be poured out on the second person who performed the abomination of desolation. Straightforward, simple, and easy to understand; but if Daniel 9:27 were all we had, then it wouldn't constitute enough evidence to convince most people. Let's go on and look at corroborating evidence.
In Daniel 12:11, it states specifically that from the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. The 1290 days is when Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah will come to reign on the earth.

Daniel 12:9-12 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."
Clearly, the above verse corroborates a piece of the outline from Daniel 9:27. We are told that the sacrifices will be stopped and that an abomination of desolation will be performed. However, we are also told an important new piece of information, namely, that there would be 1290 days from the abomination of desolation until a certain event. In the context of the chapter, Daniel 12, the 1290 days is the arrival of the Messiah to rescue Israel. The 1290 days from the abomination of desolation is what Christians call the Second Coming, and the Jewish people call it the First Coming.
The 1335 days points to the prophetic fulfillment of Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), where Ezekiel 34 is fulfilled with the judgment of the Jewish people by the Messiah. Their sins will be forgiven and they will be saved, as written also in Romans 11:25-29. The 45 days between the 1290 and 1335 days is when the armies and governments attack the Messiah and are defeated, and all remaining people on earth are summoned for judgment.

Before we leave Daniel 12, I'd like you to note Daniel 12:7, that the beast (antichrist) will be allowed to shatter the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (1 + 2 + 0.5 = 3.5 years).

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus sat down with Peter, James, John, and Andrew, and explained the end-times period. In it, He spoke of the abomination of desolation occurring, and then the last half of the 7 year period would begin with the Great Tribulation period.

Matthew 24:15-16
"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains........
Mark 13:14
"But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:20-21
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains", .......
While the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, that was not the fulfillment of these verses (as the preterists and historicists claim). The sequence of the prophetic events from Daniel 9:12 and Daniel 12 is that a peace treaty would have to be struck 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation. Then the sacrifices are stopped, and the abomination of desolation performed in the Temple takes place where a person declares himself falsely to be God in the holy place of the Temple. Only after those events do the armies surround Jerusalem. Then exactly 1290 days later the Messiah comes visibly to reign on the earth. 45 days after the Second Coming, all the people of the earth are judged. During the 45 days, all governments and armies on earth are defeated and subdued.

In 70 AD, armies did surround Jerusalem, but it was before the sacrifices were stopped. There was no abomination of desolation where a person declared himself falsely to be God and demanded worship. There was no mark of the beast system (666), where if a person refused the mark, they couldn't buy or sell. Finally, the Second Coming visibly did not take place 1290 days after the destruction in 70 AD. The Roman armies continued their dominance for hundreds of years. The people of the earth were not judged visibly standing before the Messiah. And Isaiah 65 was not fulfilled where people's lifespans increased so much, that a youth would die at the age of one hundred years.

Let's go on with our proofs of the 7 year period. In Rev 12:6, Israel (the woman, here is one of those figurative symbols within a literal timeline) flees into the wilderness for 1260 days, persecuted by the world system under the antichrist, a minion of satan.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for 1260 days.
Revelation 12:14 And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.
The first thing to notice is that verses 6 & 14 tell the same thing, but the timeframe is defined differently. 1260 days = time , times, and half a time = 3.5 (years). This is the same exact thing mentioned in Daniel 12:7, except that Daniel 7 calls them the holy people, Israel. The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Revelation 12:4-5 amplifies that point, since it states that the woman gives birth to the Messiah, the one who will rule all nations. The woman is not Mary, since in Daniel 12 and elsewhere, the prophecies speak of the Jewish people when it talks about the same exact prophecies. Christians all know that Yeshua (Jesus) was born and lived as a Jew.
In Revelation 13:5, we are given an additional corroborating piece of the puzzle.

Revelation 13:5-7 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for 42 months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue was given to him.
Revelation 13 tells us the same thing as Revelation 12 and Daniel 12, that the beast (antichrist) has an allotted period of power of 42 months, and he will persecute the Jewish people for that timeframe. He will also persecute the Christians as is shown in Revelation 12:17.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
While the evidence is that satan through the antichrist will persecute Christians too for a season, the main point is that the persecution of the Jewish people is for 42 months. Therefore:
1260 days = time, times, and half a time = 42 months = 3.5 years
I suppose that God added these different methods of describing the same timeframe, in order that people wouldn't foolishly say that it is a day for a year and the 1260 days is actually 1260 years. It is described in every possible way, to avoid misunderstanding the point. The 1260 days of allotted power for the antichrist are actually 24-hour days, and equal 42 months, or 3.5 years. Daniel 7 also describes the allotted time of power of the beast (antichrist) and it is the same 3.5 year period.

Daniel 7:25 And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Here we again have the abomination of desolation mentioned, when the beast will speak out against the Most High by falsely declaring himself to be God. He will be allowed to persecute the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (3.5 times = 3.5 years = 1260 days = 42 months).

Which takes us back to Daniel 9:27 and the week of years. All of the above shows that included in the last half of the week of years is the 1260 days=3.5 years=3.5 times=42 months of the antichrist's allotted period of power on the earth. All of the 1260 days is included in the 1290 days in Daniel 12:11, from the time of the abomination of desolation until Yeshua (Jesus) comes to reign on the earth.

The only way that someone can not believe this proof, is if they suddenly say they take all prophecy figuratively and don't believe the Bible is literal. The internal proofs for a literal end-times 7 year period are extremely strong, with the last half being 1290 days long.

I am very grateful for mismanns question as it opened the door for me to once again get out he LITERAL Word of God.

As I originally indicated I have no interest in chasing you through the convoluted "rabbit holes" of 70th Week theology. For me the theology fails at the first and most important test - it does not accord with the Word of God. It also refuses to acknowledge the realities of history. Besides a number of my Reality Bender videos on my Islandbard YouTube channel already thoroughly explore and explain how all the prophecies of Daniel 9-12 (note I have always spoken only of the prophecies of Dan 9-12) have their fulfilment in the years preceding the end of 74AD.

I will however correct you error when you say there was no peace treaty between Rome and Israel in the years leading up to 70AD. There was indeed a peace treaty. The normal procedure for Roman occupation was the erection of statues of the Roman Emperor throughout the land and temples for worship of the Emperor along side the nations own gods or in place of them as the case may be. In Israel's case the Jews made it clear they would fight to the last man before they would allow what the Lord had prohibited (graven images and their worship) anywhere in Israel.

The compromise was a treaty by which Rome would not demand the erection of statues and emperor worship by the Jews if, in turn, the Jews agreed to offer Daily Sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem on behalf of the Emperor. THIS is the treaty that was broken when the Daily Sacrifices on behalf of the Emperor were stopped circa 67AD. It is this breaking of the treaty that led directly to the ensuing war between Rome and Israel the consequence of which was the destruction of ALL cities and high places in Israel and the scattering of the Holy People among the Heathen nations as per the final curse of Leviticus 26:14-46 490 Jewish Years after The restoration of Jerusalem circa 409BC.

If you dig deep enough you WILL find ALL the prophecies of Daniel 9-12 have their precice fulfillment in the years before the end of 74AD. But to maintain the illusion of the 70th week theologies you must ignore actual world history as well as the actual words of Daniel as I have mentioned. But what you choose to believe is you decision to make. As for me I will believe the word of the Lord and the FACTS of reality for the truth of the matter. Arguing the convoluted theoretical interpretations of the 70th Week theologians trying to justify their teachings is of no interest to me. Believe what Daniel himself wrote and the facts of the reality of recorded history, or believe the words of the theologians. Everybody must make their own choice WHO and what they will believe.
 
Like Major, Iḿ not going to argue with you but because you are of this opinion I will ask you to really read the Bible. When Jesus was teaching He taught of the Wide and the Narrow Gates and the illustration there being that the entry into Heaven is limited and most of the worlds people will go to Hell! Now, we know that admission into Heaven is by faith only and we know that only a few will make it. You might want to consider this when making such a statement. If everyone agrees with you, and yes, most do... well, think about it.

Actually the 70th week theologies are all over the place trapping many by the mere assumption that they are true. Everybody seems to flock eagerly to a debate about pre/mid/post tribulation rapture, or about about the millennial reign of Christ AFTER He returns. Few are those who dare to point out that NONE of it is in accordance with what is written.

But do not worry about me Bill. I look to the WRITTEN word of God, the Council of the Holy Spirit and the FACTS of reality to guide me in the seeking of truth not the myriad teachings of men and their traditions. Please be less concerned about the truth of what I believe and more concerned whether or not what you believe is actually true. We are to be judged by what WE choose to believe, not what others choose to believe. I permit no man to tell me what to believe but the Lord only and that is how it is meant to be.
 
Seventy weeks” or 70 periods of 7 equaling 490 ( 70 x 7). The word for week in Hebrew means seven (òáLÚ, shebha)
and could be used for days or years. The same root is used in Leviticus 25:8 regarding the year of Jubilee. The celebration of Jubilee takes place in 50th year after 7-periods of 7-years or 49 years. The 490 represents years and not days.

Gabriel tells Daniel, 490 years are “Determined for your people”, Israel and “Your holy city”, Jerusalem. This sets the parameters around this clock. The time period is 490 years and the years revolve around Daniel’s people Israel/Jews and his holy city, Jerusalem. Within these parameters seven events will take place:

1. To finish the transgression,
2. To make an end of sins,
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. To seal up vision
6. and prophecy,
7. To anoint the Most Holy.

Transgression and sin are as real today as they were in Daniel’s day. War, murder and robbery are a staple of everyday life. Yet, we read within 490 years there will be “An end of sins”, and the arrival of “Everlasting righteousness”. More than 490 years have passed since Daniel penned these words 2500 years ago. Why have they not been fulfilled?

The seven events of Daniel 9:24 speak of a future time when the Messiah will reign on Earth. Each of the events listed by Gabriel speak specifically to the Messianic era. Many mistakenly apply this prophecy to the world, when Gabriel told Daniel it involved his people and his city. The Jews and Jerusalem are God’s sign to the nations. By observing Jerusalem and the Jewish people, we can see & understand God’s clock.

The 490 years were “cut” or determined on Jerusalem and the Jewish people. The total time period,490-years, is cut (the Hebrew word for determine #rxCharats means
means to cut) on Jerusalem and the Jewish people. At the completion of the Prophetic Clock, the seven events will be completed on the Jews and Jerusalem, and by proxy to the rest of the world, but Jerusalem and the Jews are the key to understanding the time. By the completion of the 490-year period these events will be completed on Jerusalem and the Jewish people.

Just something for Calvin and others to ponder. (And yourself also Major if you choose to):-

Did not Jesus by His death on the Cross make an end of sin for those who believe? Did He not make reconciliation for our iniquities? Did He not bring everlasting righteousness to those who are washed by His blood? Did He not seal up vision and prophesy (see the ende of Revelation). Was He not the most Holy, the ANOINTED one? Is He not anointed by the Lord as King and ruler of all?

If you believe these things have not come to pass already you have missed the whole message of the NT. The Gospel (Good News) IS that in Jesus the anointed Christ all these things HAVE come to pass if we but Repent, believe and be baptised.
 
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