Back and forth was one of the first things I thought of as an alternative to "to and fro" It does not really occur as a phrase. And it is sometimes startling with what you come up with in a word search. The hebrew used in your post Steve has gone right over my head (my language skills are limited) but are you saying the hebrew used is different in each case of to and fro?
Anybody Else Want To Study The Book Of Daniel?
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- Start date
Here is what I come up with for back and forth:
Gen_38:29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.
2Ki_2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Jer_2:27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.
Jer_38:22 And, behold, all the women that are left in the king of Judah's house shall be brought forth to the king of Babylon's princes, and those women shall say, Thy friends have set thee on, and have prevailed against thee: thy feet are sunk in the mire, and they are turned away back.
Eze_38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Eze_38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
6 verses found, 35 matches
Genesis 1 verse found 4 matches
2 Kings 1 verse found 8 matches
Jeremiah 2 verses found 11 matches
Ezekiel 2 verses found 12 matches
Gen_38:29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.
2Ki_2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Jer_2:27 Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.
Jer_38:22 And, behold, all the women that are left in the king of Judah's house shall be brought forth to the king of Babylon's princes, and those women shall say, Thy friends have set thee on, and have prevailed against thee: thy feet are sunk in the mire, and they are turned away back.
Eze_38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Eze_38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
6 verses found, 35 matches
Genesis 1 verse found 4 matches
2 Kings 1 verse found 8 matches
Jeremiah 2 verses found 11 matches
Ezekiel 2 verses found 12 matches
Here is the1bill's 4th chapter post - His comments will be in blue.
Daniel 4
Dan 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king to all the peoples, nations, and men of every language that live in all the earth: "May your peace abound!
Dan 4:2 "It has seemed good to me to declare the signs and wonders which the Most High God has done for me.
Dan 4:3 "How great are His signs And how mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom And His dominion is from generation to generation.
Dan 4:4 "I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at ease in my house and flourishing in my palace.
Dan 4:5 "I saw a dream and it made me fearful; and these fantasies as I lay on my bed and the visions in my mind kept alarming me.
Dan 4:6 "So I gave orders to bring into my presence all the wise men of Babylon, that they might make known to me the interpretation of the dream.
Dan 4:7 "Then the magicians, the conjurers, the Chaldeans and the diviners came in and I related the dream to them, but they could not make its interpretation known to me.
Dan 4:8 "But finally Daniel came in before me, whose name is Belteshazzar according to the name of my god, and in whom is a spirit of the holy gods; and I related the dream to him, saying,
Dan 4:9 'O Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, since I know that a spirit of the holy gods is in you and no mystery baffles you, tell me the visions of my dream which I have seen, along with its interpretation.
King Nebuchadnezzar has heard Daniel tell him what he has seen in his, personal, dream. He has seen his Mighty Men consumed with the fire of the furnace while not even a hair was singed on Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. Not only this but as he peered into the fire, four persons were walking around in there. Nebuchadnezzar knows that there is a God of Israel that defies all other gods and that He is the Saviour of all Israel, he has been privileged to see the Son of God before He divested himself of His deity to be born of a woman.
From life's experience I know it is difficult to overcome old habits and here goes the king again, first, to the men he knows and has proven to be prone to lies. Only then, when the comfortable liars cannot comfort him, does he approach Daniel for the answer from the only True God.
I have noticed in my personal study that to understand Daniel's coming trial it is reasonable and noteworthy to remember these dreams and the resulting actions surrounding them. I spent eight years in the Army and one of the first indoctrinations I was fed is that, “Familiarity breeds contempt,” and in many case that is true and life has taught me that the wise man is always looking for and preparing to deal with it. If you seek to lead men for Christ, the result is a military result because it is the LORD's Army we are serving in and you must be willing to risk familiarity to achieve the end. All the men and women in this Army are your brothers and sisters. And regardless of the perceived wisdom in the Familiarity Rule in the US Army, the men that lead and are followed the most closely are the ones that are known. As Christians we must pray for God to lead us to this balance.
Dan 4:10 'Now these were the visions in my mind as I lay on my bed: I was looking, and behold, there was a tree in the midst of the earth and its height was great.
Dan 4:11 'The tree grew large and became strong And its height reached to the sky, And it was visible to the end of the whole earth.
Dan 4:12 'Its foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, And in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, And the birds of the sky dwelt in its branches, And all living creatures fed themselves from it.
Dan 4:13 'I was looking in the visions in my mind as I lay on my bed, and behold, an angelic watcher, a holy one, descended from heaven.
Dan 4:14 'He shouted out and spoke as follows: "Chop down the tree and cut off its branches, Strip off its foliage and scatter its fruit; Let the beasts flee from under it And the birds from its branches.
Dan 4:15 "Yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, But with a band of iron and bronze around it In the new grass of the field; And let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, And let him share with the beasts in the grass of the earth.
Dan 4:16 "Let his mind be changed from that of a man And let a beast's mind be given to him, And let seven periods of time pass over him.
Dan 4:17 "This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men."
Before we go further I'm going to break a rule and place a Foot Note in the midst of everything here: If we, Christians, will be obedient (2 Tim 2:15 to study and to nourish the Holy Spirit's presence in us we will never be caught short when making a point about God. I have oft been assailed by others, calling on the name of the Christ with the untruth that the Bible does not teach the Triune God. From the day I was saved it has been my position that we serve one God, seen in three persons, the One True God, the Triune God.
Dan 4:17 is not a good verse to begin to establish your point because you must first begin in the beginning, Genesis 1 with let “us” create... and regardless of your chosen path, before you ever think of using Dan 4:17, I recommend Romans 3:10-23, otherwise you'll be hit with the angelic watchers as being the referenced. As followers of the Christ we must learn to use and to understand the Bible in one context. Now, I'll stop chasing rabitts.
Dan 4:18 'This is the dream which I, King Nebuchadnezzar, have seen. Now you, Belteshazzar, tell me its interpretation, inasmuch as none of the wise men of my kingdom is able to make known to me the interpretation; but you are able, for a spirit of the holy gods is in you.'
Dan 4:19 "Then Daniel, whose name is Belteshazzar, was appalled for a while as his thoughts alarmed him. The king responded and said, 'Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its interpretation alarm you.' Belteshazzar replied, 'My lord, if only the dream applied to those who hate you and its interpretation to your adversaries!
There is a strong lesson to be learned here, think before putting your mouth in gear. King Nebuchadnezzar can see the alarmed expression on David's face and he is smart enough to realize that the news might not be a thing he will enjoy. Let me try to give you some beginning to understand what is happening to David.
The first time I took the pulpit I was in my early fifties and for three weeks I prepared my lesson. I rehearsed it until I'm sure I was blue in the face. That Sunday Morning, as I took the Pulpit, the Holy Spirit overcame me as I prayed and I knew the message I had studied, so intently, was not the message I would deliver that morning and I have tossed the notes and never did teach that sermon. God gave me, in that still small voice that I cannot explain, the address in the Bible and as I read the text the words came out of my mouth and continued straight into what God had for me to deliver that morning. God, speaking through me, preached to me as much as He did to everyone else in that assembly that morning.
Perhaps now, you will appreciate what was happening to Daniel. Like myself on that day, Daniel was frightened by what was happening. He also knew there were limits to what one tells the king because the king can cut your head off... right there and then.
Dan 4:20 'The tree that you saw, which became large and grew strong, whose height reached to the sky and was visible to all the earth
Dan 4:21 and whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt and in whose branches the birds of the sky lodged--
Dan 4:22 it is you, O king; for you have become great and grown strong, and your majesty has become great and reached to the sky and your dominion to the end of the earth.
Dan 4:23 'In that the king saw an angelic watcher, a holy one, descending from heaven and saying, "Chop down the tree and destroy it; yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, but with a band of iron and bronze around it in the new grass of the field, and let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him share with the beasts of the field until seven periods of time pass over him,"
Dan 4:24 this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king:
Dan 4:25 that you be driven away from mankind and your dwelling place be with the beasts of the field, and you be given grass to eat like cattle and be drenched with the dew of heaven; and seven periods of time will pass over you, until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.
Think for a moment, much of this is written in the first person by Nebuchadnezzar and he keeps saying gods and still is not settled on the fact that there is only one God and it would be wise to melt the gold from the monster gold statue and make money out of it. And it is thought that the reference to periods of time is a reference to years and there is prophetic evidence that supports this thought.
Dan 4:26 'And in that it was commanded to leave the stump with the roots of the tree, your kingdom will be assured to you after you recognize that it is Heaven that rules.
Dan 4:27 'Therefore, O king, may my advice be pleasing to you: break away now from your sins by doing righteousness and from your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor, in case there may be a prolonging of your prosperity.'
When Daniel finishes his (give me a little liberty here) Hell and Damnation message he ends with the Life Application to apply. Many, today, stand in the pulpit and they tickle the ears of their membership and though it is not an exclusive truth, they, thus, build super churches that are, in reality, not part of The Church. David set an example for every member of every Church Family to follow, just as Paul and the other eleven did. Just as men like Billy Sunday and Billy Graham did. We do not need to learn it, no, we need to believe, trust God and proclaim the Whole Truth of the Bible and when we do, it might not all go well with us but God will be there and it is not this world of temporary things tat we need to build for anyway. Like David we must learn to think, work and to live for the Eternal.
Dan 4:28 "All this happened to Nebuchadnezzar the king.
Dan 4:29 "Twelve months later he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon.
Dan 4:30 "The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?'
Dan 4:31 "While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you,
Dan 4:32 and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.'
Dan 4:33 "Immediately the word concerning Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled; and he was driven away from mankind and began eating grass like cattle, and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair had grown like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34 "But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever; For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom endures from generation to generation.
Dan 4:35 "All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'
Dan 4:36 "At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
Dan 4:37 "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride."
Here again we see that King Nebuchadnezzar is writing this narrative to the glory of the one true God. Nebuchadnezzar did not become a Jewish Believer and he, certainly, was not a Christian, so, was he converted? There were no Christians and he was not a Jew. Was he saved at this point? This is a point worthy of a study I, myself, have not done yet but, God is the God of new beginnings and I wonder if I'll be able to ask Nebuchadnezzar what the grass tasted like.
The life application? I see this as proof positive that “all” can be saved and that Father God can use everyone of us to work His will. That does not make me a Calvinist and I do not follow the Armenian theology either because they both seem to me to just ignore the thought of the Scriptures being of one, continuous, context. I call myself a Biblicist, a term, I believe, coined by Brother Richard Clark of Mississippi fame and origin. If it's n the Bible, it is the Word of God and I believe it... all!
Bond servant,
Bill Taylor
Daniel 4
Dan 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king to all the peoples, nations, and men of every language that live in all the earth: "May your peace abound!
Dan 4:2 "It has seemed good to me to declare the signs and wonders which the Most High God has done for me.
Dan 4:3 "How great are His signs And how mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom And His dominion is from generation to generation.
Dan 4:4 "I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at ease in my house and flourishing in my palace.
Dan 4:5 "I saw a dream and it made me fearful; and these fantasies as I lay on my bed and the visions in my mind kept alarming me.
Dan 4:6 "So I gave orders to bring into my presence all the wise men of Babylon, that they might make known to me the interpretation of the dream.
Dan 4:7 "Then the magicians, the conjurers, the Chaldeans and the diviners came in and I related the dream to them, but they could not make its interpretation known to me.
Dan 4:8 "But finally Daniel came in before me, whose name is Belteshazzar according to the name of my god, and in whom is a spirit of the holy gods; and I related the dream to him, saying,
Dan 4:9 'O Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, since I know that a spirit of the holy gods is in you and no mystery baffles you, tell me the visions of my dream which I have seen, along with its interpretation.
King Nebuchadnezzar has heard Daniel tell him what he has seen in his, personal, dream. He has seen his Mighty Men consumed with the fire of the furnace while not even a hair was singed on Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. Not only this but as he peered into the fire, four persons were walking around in there. Nebuchadnezzar knows that there is a God of Israel that defies all other gods and that He is the Saviour of all Israel, he has been privileged to see the Son of God before He divested himself of His deity to be born of a woman.
From life's experience I know it is difficult to overcome old habits and here goes the king again, first, to the men he knows and has proven to be prone to lies. Only then, when the comfortable liars cannot comfort him, does he approach Daniel for the answer from the only True God.
I have noticed in my personal study that to understand Daniel's coming trial it is reasonable and noteworthy to remember these dreams and the resulting actions surrounding them. I spent eight years in the Army and one of the first indoctrinations I was fed is that, “Familiarity breeds contempt,” and in many case that is true and life has taught me that the wise man is always looking for and preparing to deal with it. If you seek to lead men for Christ, the result is a military result because it is the LORD's Army we are serving in and you must be willing to risk familiarity to achieve the end. All the men and women in this Army are your brothers and sisters. And regardless of the perceived wisdom in the Familiarity Rule in the US Army, the men that lead and are followed the most closely are the ones that are known. As Christians we must pray for God to lead us to this balance.
Dan 4:10 'Now these were the visions in my mind as I lay on my bed: I was looking, and behold, there was a tree in the midst of the earth and its height was great.
Dan 4:11 'The tree grew large and became strong And its height reached to the sky, And it was visible to the end of the whole earth.
Dan 4:12 'Its foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, And in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, And the birds of the sky dwelt in its branches, And all living creatures fed themselves from it.
Dan 4:13 'I was looking in the visions in my mind as I lay on my bed, and behold, an angelic watcher, a holy one, descended from heaven.
Dan 4:14 'He shouted out and spoke as follows: "Chop down the tree and cut off its branches, Strip off its foliage and scatter its fruit; Let the beasts flee from under it And the birds from its branches.
Dan 4:15 "Yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, But with a band of iron and bronze around it In the new grass of the field; And let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, And let him share with the beasts in the grass of the earth.
Dan 4:16 "Let his mind be changed from that of a man And let a beast's mind be given to him, And let seven periods of time pass over him.
Dan 4:17 "This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men."
Before we go further I'm going to break a rule and place a Foot Note in the midst of everything here: If we, Christians, will be obedient (2 Tim 2:15 to study and to nourish the Holy Spirit's presence in us we will never be caught short when making a point about God. I have oft been assailed by others, calling on the name of the Christ with the untruth that the Bible does not teach the Triune God. From the day I was saved it has been my position that we serve one God, seen in three persons, the One True God, the Triune God.
Dan 4:17 is not a good verse to begin to establish your point because you must first begin in the beginning, Genesis 1 with let “us” create... and regardless of your chosen path, before you ever think of using Dan 4:17, I recommend Romans 3:10-23, otherwise you'll be hit with the angelic watchers as being the referenced. As followers of the Christ we must learn to use and to understand the Bible in one context. Now, I'll stop chasing rabitts.
Dan 4:18 'This is the dream which I, King Nebuchadnezzar, have seen. Now you, Belteshazzar, tell me its interpretation, inasmuch as none of the wise men of my kingdom is able to make known to me the interpretation; but you are able, for a spirit of the holy gods is in you.'
Dan 4:19 "Then Daniel, whose name is Belteshazzar, was appalled for a while as his thoughts alarmed him. The king responded and said, 'Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its interpretation alarm you.' Belteshazzar replied, 'My lord, if only the dream applied to those who hate you and its interpretation to your adversaries!
There is a strong lesson to be learned here, think before putting your mouth in gear. King Nebuchadnezzar can see the alarmed expression on David's face and he is smart enough to realize that the news might not be a thing he will enjoy. Let me try to give you some beginning to understand what is happening to David.
The first time I took the pulpit I was in my early fifties and for three weeks I prepared my lesson. I rehearsed it until I'm sure I was blue in the face. That Sunday Morning, as I took the Pulpit, the Holy Spirit overcame me as I prayed and I knew the message I had studied, so intently, was not the message I would deliver that morning and I have tossed the notes and never did teach that sermon. God gave me, in that still small voice that I cannot explain, the address in the Bible and as I read the text the words came out of my mouth and continued straight into what God had for me to deliver that morning. God, speaking through me, preached to me as much as He did to everyone else in that assembly that morning.
Perhaps now, you will appreciate what was happening to Daniel. Like myself on that day, Daniel was frightened by what was happening. He also knew there were limits to what one tells the king because the king can cut your head off... right there and then.
Dan 4:20 'The tree that you saw, which became large and grew strong, whose height reached to the sky and was visible to all the earth
Dan 4:21 and whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt and in whose branches the birds of the sky lodged--
Dan 4:22 it is you, O king; for you have become great and grown strong, and your majesty has become great and reached to the sky and your dominion to the end of the earth.
Dan 4:23 'In that the king saw an angelic watcher, a holy one, descending from heaven and saying, "Chop down the tree and destroy it; yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, but with a band of iron and bronze around it in the new grass of the field, and let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him share with the beasts of the field until seven periods of time pass over him,"
Dan 4:24 this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king:
Dan 4:25 that you be driven away from mankind and your dwelling place be with the beasts of the field, and you be given grass to eat like cattle and be drenched with the dew of heaven; and seven periods of time will pass over you, until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.
Think for a moment, much of this is written in the first person by Nebuchadnezzar and he keeps saying gods and still is not settled on the fact that there is only one God and it would be wise to melt the gold from the monster gold statue and make money out of it. And it is thought that the reference to periods of time is a reference to years and there is prophetic evidence that supports this thought.
Dan 4:26 'And in that it was commanded to leave the stump with the roots of the tree, your kingdom will be assured to you after you recognize that it is Heaven that rules.
Dan 4:27 'Therefore, O king, may my advice be pleasing to you: break away now from your sins by doing righteousness and from your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor, in case there may be a prolonging of your prosperity.'
When Daniel finishes his (give me a little liberty here) Hell and Damnation message he ends with the Life Application to apply. Many, today, stand in the pulpit and they tickle the ears of their membership and though it is not an exclusive truth, they, thus, build super churches that are, in reality, not part of The Church. David set an example for every member of every Church Family to follow, just as Paul and the other eleven did. Just as men like Billy Sunday and Billy Graham did. We do not need to learn it, no, we need to believe, trust God and proclaim the Whole Truth of the Bible and when we do, it might not all go well with us but God will be there and it is not this world of temporary things tat we need to build for anyway. Like David we must learn to think, work and to live for the Eternal.
Dan 4:28 "All this happened to Nebuchadnezzar the king.
Dan 4:29 "Twelve months later he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon.
Dan 4:30 "The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?'
Dan 4:31 "While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you,
Dan 4:32 and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.'
Dan 4:33 "Immediately the word concerning Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled; and he was driven away from mankind and began eating grass like cattle, and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair had grown like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34 "But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever; For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom endures from generation to generation.
Dan 4:35 "All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'
Dan 4:36 "At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
Dan 4:37 "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride."
Here again we see that King Nebuchadnezzar is writing this narrative to the glory of the one true God. Nebuchadnezzar did not become a Jewish Believer and he, certainly, was not a Christian, so, was he converted? There were no Christians and he was not a Jew. Was he saved at this point? This is a point worthy of a study I, myself, have not done yet but, God is the God of new beginnings and I wonder if I'll be able to ask Nebuchadnezzar what the grass tasted like.
The life application? I see this as proof positive that “all” can be saved and that Father God can use everyone of us to work His will. That does not make me a Calvinist and I do not follow the Armenian theology either because they both seem to me to just ignore the thought of the Scriptures being of one, continuous, context. I call myself a Biblicist, a term, I believe, coined by Brother Richard Clark of Mississippi fame and origin. If it's n the Bible, it is the Word of God and I believe it... all!
Bond servant,
Bill Taylor
Not in every case but a quick count shows 8 words in Hebrew and of course 1 in Greek. Just like English we can say the same thing using different words and different emphasis. They all say "to go out, travel, go forward, push out. The Idiom to and Fro is not directly there.
I am new on the forum and I will begin with this topic for sharing information
I am a prophecy teacher with about 30 + years in the study .... I have no affiliation preference
Teaching prophecy is a lost art today and one will not find much interest in most all of the various denominational persuasions of professing Christianity
However, I consider it to be most significant and essential for the Christian to build one's faith and to be an effective witness to others [2 Peter 1:16-21]
I would point out that there has been much abuse and misuse of the topic for various ambitions and that it is also a favorite discussion of the conspiracy theory tabloids for producing sensationalism .... and the Internet is loaded with all sorts of different views
My suggestion is for one to stick to your Bible and to involve the Lord's guidance alone for correct and accurate interpretation .... He has said that He will lead one into all truth over time .... this is the best practice in my opinion
One also needs to gain a solid understanding of recorded history, ancient, and modern times .... enough so that comparisons can be made with related scripture .... all information must be evaluated in the light of the prophetic scriptures and not the other way around
Having said this I will begin posting with the topic of this thread
The prophet Daniel is a key source for understanding all Bible prophecy and his visions of future events, both those that have already been fulfilled and those still pending fulfillment, are 100% accurate .... all given directly from the Lord and His angelic servants
My postings will be shorter rather than longer, and I will answer any reasonable questions from posters .... I typically will refrain from argumentation, but will just give my interpretations .... I do not think that it is a good idea to display the debating battles that go on with most of the Internet Christian media message boards with regard for Bible prophecy
Let me start with a few tips that will give insight and speed up the learning curve when studying the Bible prophets like Daniel .... I will assume that the readers on this thread have some understanding of who Daniel was and when and where he made his contributions to the over all prophetic picture
If I do see an interest on the forum for the subject of prophecy I will most likely start a related series of topical threads and related historical and current events
Tips:
The book of Daniel has structure with details and overview .... both need to be studied together
All of the prophets repeat events giving more details as the narrative moves forward
Interpretation should be taken literally and where there is symbolism all of the meanings can be discovered either in the same passage, or in other passages of scripture
All of the prophets display the same intervening period of silence with nothing written of events upon the earth
All of them record both near term fulfilled and longer term unfulfilled prophecies in the same chapters and even in the same passage
And all of the prophets visions are totally compatible even thought they lived at different times in different locations
Their predictions are all from the Lord and not of their own private understanding
The scope of their visions is primarily about Israel in the Middle East surrounded by Gentile kingdoms
I will join this thread and discussion about the book of Daniel, add comments, and answer questions with respect for the original poster
However, if I do see a continued interest in the subject of the Lord's prophetic word on this forum, I will start additional topical threads and related historical and current event comparatives .... and I will demonstrate how all of the prophetic materials fit together with precision from Genesis to Revelation
I am a prophecy teacher with about 30 + years in the study .... I have no affiliation preference
Teaching prophecy is a lost art today and one will not find much interest in most all of the various denominational persuasions of professing Christianity
However, I consider it to be most significant and essential for the Christian to build one's faith and to be an effective witness to others [2 Peter 1:16-21]
I would point out that there has been much abuse and misuse of the topic for various ambitions and that it is also a favorite discussion of the conspiracy theory tabloids for producing sensationalism .... and the Internet is loaded with all sorts of different views
My suggestion is for one to stick to your Bible and to involve the Lord's guidance alone for correct and accurate interpretation .... He has said that He will lead one into all truth over time .... this is the best practice in my opinion
One also needs to gain a solid understanding of recorded history, ancient, and modern times .... enough so that comparisons can be made with related scripture .... all information must be evaluated in the light of the prophetic scriptures and not the other way around
Having said this I will begin posting with the topic of this thread
The prophet Daniel is a key source for understanding all Bible prophecy and his visions of future events, both those that have already been fulfilled and those still pending fulfillment, are 100% accurate .... all given directly from the Lord and His angelic servants
My postings will be shorter rather than longer, and I will answer any reasonable questions from posters .... I typically will refrain from argumentation, but will just give my interpretations .... I do not think that it is a good idea to display the debating battles that go on with most of the Internet Christian media message boards with regard for Bible prophecy
Let me start with a few tips that will give insight and speed up the learning curve when studying the Bible prophets like Daniel .... I will assume that the readers on this thread have some understanding of who Daniel was and when and where he made his contributions to the over all prophetic picture
If I do see an interest on the forum for the subject of prophecy I will most likely start a related series of topical threads and related historical and current events
Tips:
The book of Daniel has structure with details and overview .... both need to be studied together
All of the prophets repeat events giving more details as the narrative moves forward
Interpretation should be taken literally and where there is symbolism all of the meanings can be discovered either in the same passage, or in other passages of scripture
All of the prophets display the same intervening period of silence with nothing written of events upon the earth
All of them record both near term fulfilled and longer term unfulfilled prophecies in the same chapters and even in the same passage
And all of the prophets visions are totally compatible even thought they lived at different times in different locations
Their predictions are all from the Lord and not of their own private understanding
The scope of their visions is primarily about Israel in the Middle East surrounded by Gentile kingdoms
I will join this thread and discussion about the book of Daniel, add comments, and answer questions with respect for the original poster
However, if I do see a continued interest in the subject of the Lord's prophetic word on this forum, I will start additional topical threads and related historical and current event comparatives .... and I will demonstrate how all of the prophetic materials fit together with precision from Genesis to Revelation
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Hey Straightshot and welcome to CFS and this thread - glad for you to join us. We are at Chapter 4 and any comments you care to make up to Chapter 5 are welcome. Overviews are fine, too. And cross references, as well as historical background is always good too. Feel free. Read back and see what has already been posted. I think many would be interested in prophecy topics. It's why I started the thread as well as wanting to understand and learn.
OK Silk
I have read the post material that exists
I will begin with chapter 2 if that is OK with you .... hold on
Thanks for the welcome
I have read the post material that exists
I will begin with chapter 2 if that is OK with you .... hold on
Thanks for the welcome
I will create smaller posts with significant highlights so that the reader can respond with comments and questions .... the study of Bible prophecy is somewhat complex at first, but as one begins to develop understanding and a more comprehensive overview of all prophecy given the picture will become more and more clear with focus
Daniel's visions are a good starting point for building one's knowledge
Daniel's revelations are centered upon his national people of Israel [Daniel 9] in conjunction with successive surrounding Middle Eastern kingdoms [populations] of the Gentiles .... the same post flood inhabitants of these kingdoms are still in the region and primarily of the Muslim religion today
There are 7 kingdoms in view in the prophetic scriptures .... 5 are now historical and there are 2 more, one after the other, that are still future at this time
Here are the first 5 as they impacted the Middle East from specific regional locations in beginning after the Noahic flood: the land of Magog, Assyrian, neo-Babylonian, Medo/Persian and greater Persian, Syrian [the northern Seleucid division of Alexander the Great's Asian holdings] .... the next 2 are not named and still pending at this time
The 6th and 7th are not named because both will arise as successors of the same 5th of the past, the 2 successive northern kingdoms of the human little horn [king] of Daniel's visions in 7: 7-25; 8: 9-25; 11:36-45; 12:7
This little horn will arise at the end of this present age in the northern Middle East [Syria/Iraq] region today, and will at first rule a smaller kingdom [the 6th] centered in what was once the core of the historical Assyrian Empire at Nineveh [Mosul province] on the Tigris River .... he will then expand his 6th into the 7th which will include most of the Middle East including today's Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia
He will conquer the existing governments of 3 of these 10 regions and confederate the balance appointing 10 other human kings as rulers of each, all loyal to him as we shall see in Daniel 7 [related prophetic visions are: Ezekiel 38; Joel 2; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 13:1-4; 17:8-18
Daniel's initial view is given in chapter 2 related to the image reflecting the same sequence of kingdoms revealed in chapter 7 ..... he begins with the 3rd kingdom of neo-Babylon in which he lived as a captive [Babylon conquered 2 tribes of Israel living in the land and took the survivors to Babylon where they remained for 70 years [the Assyrians had already conquered the other 10 tribes of Israel and scattered them throughout the Middle East]
He tells king Nebuchadnezzar that he is the first king of the neo-Babylonian kingdom in the vision .... the head of gold
He then proceeds to tell of the next 4 successive northern Middle Eastern kingdoms, 2 of which are still pending today .... there is a time breach between kingdom 5, and the future 6th and next 7th [all of the prophets including Daniel reflect this time breach]
This time breach of silence is reflected in the image between the northern thigh of bronze [the 5th kingdom of the set of 7] and the next northern leg of iron still to come .... the southern thigh of bronze was the Egyptian kingdom existing south of the land of Israel
This same north and south divide with Israel between will be the setting at the time appointed at the end of this present age .... Syria/Iraq in the north, and Egypt in the south [the other iron leg]
The little horn [king] of the northern divide will conquer the king of the south in his quest for domination of the Middle East as we shall see [Daniel 11:40; 11:42]
Hold on ............ more to come
[I will pause briefly for comments or questions]
Daniel's visions are a good starting point for building one's knowledge
Daniel's revelations are centered upon his national people of Israel [Daniel 9] in conjunction with successive surrounding Middle Eastern kingdoms [populations] of the Gentiles .... the same post flood inhabitants of these kingdoms are still in the region and primarily of the Muslim religion today
There are 7 kingdoms in view in the prophetic scriptures .... 5 are now historical and there are 2 more, one after the other, that are still future at this time
Here are the first 5 as they impacted the Middle East from specific regional locations in beginning after the Noahic flood: the land of Magog, Assyrian, neo-Babylonian, Medo/Persian and greater Persian, Syrian [the northern Seleucid division of Alexander the Great's Asian holdings] .... the next 2 are not named and still pending at this time
The 6th and 7th are not named because both will arise as successors of the same 5th of the past, the 2 successive northern kingdoms of the human little horn [king] of Daniel's visions in 7: 7-25; 8: 9-25; 11:36-45; 12:7
This little horn will arise at the end of this present age in the northern Middle East [Syria/Iraq] region today, and will at first rule a smaller kingdom [the 6th] centered in what was once the core of the historical Assyrian Empire at Nineveh [Mosul province] on the Tigris River .... he will then expand his 6th into the 7th which will include most of the Middle East including today's Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia
He will conquer the existing governments of 3 of these 10 regions and confederate the balance appointing 10 other human kings as rulers of each, all loyal to him as we shall see in Daniel 7 [related prophetic visions are: Ezekiel 38; Joel 2; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 13:1-4; 17:8-18
Daniel's initial view is given in chapter 2 related to the image reflecting the same sequence of kingdoms revealed in chapter 7 ..... he begins with the 3rd kingdom of neo-Babylon in which he lived as a captive [Babylon conquered 2 tribes of Israel living in the land and took the survivors to Babylon where they remained for 70 years [the Assyrians had already conquered the other 10 tribes of Israel and scattered them throughout the Middle East]
He tells king Nebuchadnezzar that he is the first king of the neo-Babylonian kingdom in the vision .... the head of gold
He then proceeds to tell of the next 4 successive northern Middle Eastern kingdoms, 2 of which are still pending today .... there is a time breach between kingdom 5, and the future 6th and next 7th [all of the prophets including Daniel reflect this time breach]
This time breach of silence is reflected in the image between the northern thigh of bronze [the 5th kingdom of the set of 7] and the next northern leg of iron still to come .... the southern thigh of bronze was the Egyptian kingdom existing south of the land of Israel
This same north and south divide with Israel between will be the setting at the time appointed at the end of this present age .... Syria/Iraq in the north, and Egypt in the south [the other iron leg]
The little horn [king] of the northern divide will conquer the king of the south in his quest for domination of the Middle East as we shall see [Daniel 11:40; 11:42]
Hold on ............ more to come
[I will pause briefly for comments or questions]
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Scripture defines Gold as Babylon, Silver as the Medo-Persians, Bronze as Greek, and Iron as what we know later as Rome. Rome had an east (Constantinople) and a west (Rome/Europe). The west and the east. Which is where we are at now - the feet. My understanding is there are 7 of the antichrist spirit/rulers. First was Nimrod, 7th was Hitler (most agree from what I have seen) - the 8th will be the AC of end days.
Silk
Thanks for the reply
I do understand your view above, however mine is different specifically related to your inclusion of the ancient Roman Empire and a similar revived Euro-centric end time kingdom
This theology was developed by the reformation and reconstruction movements in their day with an emphasis upon their standing against the Pope and his RCC .... I do agree that this religion is very apostate by its traditional teachings and behavior up to this very day
At the same time I see many biblical and prophetical absolutes that prohibit the insertion of the same into the prophetic visions .... Rome is not there just as the subsequent rulers of the region like the Arabian, Mongol, Ottoman, and British are not there
Many very significant events upon the earth have taken place over the last 2000 years that simply do not appear in the visions of the prophets like the crusades, inquisitions, WW I, WW II, Persian Gulf wars, and Israel's recent wars with the Muslim Middle East
There is a reason for this and the explanation is related to the 70 weeks of years decreed for Daniel's people of Israel [Daniel 9]
One also needs to discover who Satan's beast of Revelation is and the relationship between this angelic prince and the human little horn and last king of the north [north of Israel] in Daniel 7; 8
The Bible is a Middle Eastern centered book both culturally and regionally particularly with the visions of the Bible prophets and their focus is upon Israel and the surrounding populations of the Middle East both of the past and future
Because of this significant difference in our views it might be best for me to start another thread rather than interrupting this one that you have initiated
What I can post on the forum is the entire scope of the Middle Eastern view of Bible prophets, the Lord's discourse about the same and His Revelation including many related references, historical records, maps, and current modern day events that are in process at this time
In order for me to take the time to do this it might be a wise thing for me to create a number of separate unique threads that would give comprehensive economic clarity for the readers .... as opposed to mixing the same into your posting
What do you prefer?
Thanks for the reply
I do understand your view above, however mine is different specifically related to your inclusion of the ancient Roman Empire and a similar revived Euro-centric end time kingdom
This theology was developed by the reformation and reconstruction movements in their day with an emphasis upon their standing against the Pope and his RCC .... I do agree that this religion is very apostate by its traditional teachings and behavior up to this very day
At the same time I see many biblical and prophetical absolutes that prohibit the insertion of the same into the prophetic visions .... Rome is not there just as the subsequent rulers of the region like the Arabian, Mongol, Ottoman, and British are not there
Many very significant events upon the earth have taken place over the last 2000 years that simply do not appear in the visions of the prophets like the crusades, inquisitions, WW I, WW II, Persian Gulf wars, and Israel's recent wars with the Muslim Middle East
There is a reason for this and the explanation is related to the 70 weeks of years decreed for Daniel's people of Israel [Daniel 9]
One also needs to discover who Satan's beast of Revelation is and the relationship between this angelic prince and the human little horn and last king of the north [north of Israel] in Daniel 7; 8
The Bible is a Middle Eastern centered book both culturally and regionally particularly with the visions of the Bible prophets and their focus is upon Israel and the surrounding populations of the Middle East both of the past and future
Because of this significant difference in our views it might be best for me to start another thread rather than interrupting this one that you have initiated
What I can post on the forum is the entire scope of the Middle Eastern view of Bible prophets, the Lord's discourse about the same and His Revelation including many related references, historical records, maps, and current modern day events that are in process at this time
In order for me to take the time to do this it might be a wise thing for me to create a number of separate unique threads that would give comprehensive economic clarity for the readers .... as opposed to mixing the same into your posting
What do you prefer?
I don't have a problem either way. Seriously, I will listen and try to see a point of view but I will always state/post/say what I think and see in scripture. And try to show why I take whatever position. Rome overcame the Greeks. The eastern part of that empire covers the geography and nations of the mid east. Both east and west wings have attempted an empire like Rome. I don't own the thread because I started it. Offer and expect that people might question or disagree and others agree. Hopefully folks will be civilized.
Silk
Thanks for your reply
After thinking about this matter I believe that it would be best for me to set up a new thread in order to convey what I see as presented in the records of the Bible prophets from Genesis through Revelation
This way I won't interfere with what you have set out to teach on this thread
We most likely share much of the same general understandings except when it comes to the prophetic view of the succession of Middle Eastern Empires as I see the same presented
I think it would be better for you to continue this thread and it does appear that you have some on the thread that are participating .... this is a good thing
If I post here I think it might generate some confusion for those who have limited knowledge of the subject
I have been on the social media boards for a number of years and do see all of the wrangling, debating, and conflict that goes on .... particularly with the subject at hand, and the basic reason that this takes place is because many involved have preconceived agendas that they feel they must defend
Then the discussions lead to all sorts of banter flying in every direction
I don't come to a forum with the intent of looking for this kind of challenge, but just to post what I have discovered over time related to the Lord's prophetic word because I believe that there is a good purpose for those who have an interest .... most people could care less today and the subject is not well understood, not taught much in the professing church any more, and is not as popular as it has been at times in the past
So I will select a few key items and start threads on them for those who have an interest .... not sure exactly where I would do this on the forum, but I will investigate .... it may be this same section
My intent will be to complete a set of related and focused topics, and I will entertain comments and questions in the process
Once finished with the content, I will most likely move on .... I am currently posting on a number of forums at this time
Thanks for your reply
After thinking about this matter I believe that it would be best for me to set up a new thread in order to convey what I see as presented in the records of the Bible prophets from Genesis through Revelation
This way I won't interfere with what you have set out to teach on this thread
We most likely share much of the same general understandings except when it comes to the prophetic view of the succession of Middle Eastern Empires as I see the same presented
I think it would be better for you to continue this thread and it does appear that you have some on the thread that are participating .... this is a good thing
If I post here I think it might generate some confusion for those who have limited knowledge of the subject
I have been on the social media boards for a number of years and do see all of the wrangling, debating, and conflict that goes on .... particularly with the subject at hand, and the basic reason that this takes place is because many involved have preconceived agendas that they feel they must defend
Then the discussions lead to all sorts of banter flying in every direction
I don't come to a forum with the intent of looking for this kind of challenge, but just to post what I have discovered over time related to the Lord's prophetic word because I believe that there is a good purpose for those who have an interest .... most people could care less today and the subject is not well understood, not taught much in the professing church any more, and is not as popular as it has been at times in the past
So I will select a few key items and start threads on them for those who have an interest .... not sure exactly where I would do this on the forum, but I will investigate .... it may be this same section
My intent will be to complete a set of related and focused topics, and I will entertain comments and questions in the process
Once finished with the content, I will most likely move on .... I am currently posting on a number of forums at this time
Welcome my friend and I for one look forward to your controbutions.
It seems that you are ruling out the Revived Roman Empire as one of the Gentile nations to oppress Israel.
Your comment was.............
"If I post here I think it might generate some confusion for those who have limited knowledge of the subject ".
"I have been on the social media boards for a number of years and do see all of the wrangling, debating, and conflict that goes on .... particularly with the subject at hand, and the basic reason that this takes place is because many involved have preconceived agendas that they feel they must defend."
Now for someone who just walked through the door, it seems to me that you are being rather arrogant in assuming that the rest of us are obtuse.
I would like you to know that there are many very Bibllically knowledgable individuals on this site.
Major
Thanks for the reply
Correct .... foe example, I do not see Rome as the 4th Middle Eastern kingdom presented in Daniel 7
The ancient Roman Empire is recorded in the NT as a matter of historical record, but the same is not named or defined in any of the prophetic visions .... and certainly not to be revived as a western end time kingdom that will attempt to destroy Israel
This stage is setting up as we speak .... in the Middle East .... and it is the surrounding states who are primarily all Muslim today who will attempt to eradicate Israel from the face of the earth
These round about Israel are identified in scripture and the little horn of Daniel's visions will confederate them and lead them to the task .... a few identifiers [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36; 38]
The little horn will arise in the northwestern region of Mesopotamia [Iraq/Syria] .... north of Israel
This one will not be a Euro-centric "Roman"
I will start a series of postings for the forum for those who have an interest that will demonstrate this truth from the prophetic scriptures hands down
This is very significant because of the controversy between Isaac/Jacob and Ishmael/Esau which was set out long ago by the Lord Himself ..... the conditions still exists and will be the very drawing of the Lord to intervene and rescue a portion of believing Israel from their ancient enemies who follow the false prophet Mohammed and the false God Allah
Again, the setting is now underway and it is just a matter of time before the remaining unfulfilled visions of the Bible prophets begin ..... could be before this day is over
Thanks for the reply
Correct .... foe example, I do not see Rome as the 4th Middle Eastern kingdom presented in Daniel 7
The ancient Roman Empire is recorded in the NT as a matter of historical record, but the same is not named or defined in any of the prophetic visions .... and certainly not to be revived as a western end time kingdom that will attempt to destroy Israel
This stage is setting up as we speak .... in the Middle East .... and it is the surrounding states who are primarily all Muslim today who will attempt to eradicate Israel from the face of the earth
These round about Israel are identified in scripture and the little horn of Daniel's visions will confederate them and lead them to the task .... a few identifiers [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36; 38]
The little horn will arise in the northwestern region of Mesopotamia [Iraq/Syria] .... north of Israel
This one will not be a Euro-centric "Roman"
I will start a series of postings for the forum for those who have an interest that will demonstrate this truth from the prophetic scriptures hands down
This is very significant because of the controversy between Isaac/Jacob and Ishmael/Esau which was set out long ago by the Lord Himself ..... the conditions still exists and will be the very drawing of the Lord to intervene and rescue a portion of believing Israel from their ancient enemies who follow the false prophet Mohammed and the false God Allah
Again, the setting is now underway and it is just a matter of time before the remaining unfulfilled visions of the Bible prophets begin ..... could be before this day is over
"Now for someone who just walked through the door, it seems to me that you are being rather arrogant in assuming that the rest of us are obtuse.
I would like you to know that there are many very Bibllically knowledgable individuals on this site."
I appreciate you concern Major and I hope there are "biblically knowledge individuals here, but I also know that there are some with limited knowledge of a very complex subject
If you have reasonable comments and or questions as I began posting, I will answer
I would like you to know that there are many very Bibllically knowledgable individuals on this site."
I appreciate you concern Major and I hope there are "biblically knowledge individuals here, but I also know that there are some with limited knowledge of a very complex subject
If you have reasonable comments and or questions as I began posting, I will answer
Hi
I am a minister with 50+ years of studying and teaching prophecy. I would like for you to tell us where you come from in your position, Past, history, present, Future, Pre post Ah You know the list.
I am Future, Pre trib, pre Mil