Are Holiday's Really Holy Day's?

[Ricko1]

I know what you are saying, Ricko, that's fine. The point I'm (attempting ) to demonstrate is that Deut 12 doesn't need to say "You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way... except for in the case of musical instruments." This is because "that way" means "things that are an abomination" inherently, like burning children, which is what that verse mentions. The fact that a person once used something to worship a false god does not change the inherent meaning of that thing. The inherent meaning of a tree is simply that it's a created thing. That's it. A pagan who once worshiped it does not get to forever alter its inherent meaning.

In the case of my friend, he's free to use a drum, because the pagan practice was the actual worshiping of false gods, not drumming. He can use a drum because there's nothing inherently wrong with drumming, not because Psalm 150 gives him some "permission" that trumps Deut 12. The pagan practice warned about in Jeremiah is the actual worshiping of false gods, not decorating cut wood. So we can decorate a piece of cut wood if we want to, because there's nothing inherently wrong with decorating things. It's no more a sin to decorate a tree in your home than it is to hang a wooden cross in your church (again, some Christians believe that Jeremiah 10:3-4 means we cannot hang wooden crosses in our churches, since crosses fit the description there as easily as a Christmas tree could!). We should be focusing purging things from our lives that the Lord actually considers to be "abominations," my brother! Let's focus on purging the things that really are sin, and promote things that really are good. Col 2:16-23.

There is an old adage not in the Bible but good to think about.." He that does not learn from the past, is doomed to repeat it". I said that because every story in our Bible teaches us something we need to embrace in our walk with God.

We know not to go with a thing God is displeased with
The Bible teaches : " If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land"

God Bless!!

 

[Roads]

We know not to go with a thing God is displeased with

Quite right. God is displeased with idol worship. Not with decorating things.

 

[Abdicate]

It would be interesting to know how you did it, i don't dispute your validity especially since you spent that much time on it and i see you wrote a book on it...

I used the scriptures alone. Once I did that, finding the historical stuff was easy. You can skip to the time of Christ. Let me know if you have any suggestions. It's more of a reference book than anything else.

 

[RosaVera]

I used the scriptures alone. Once I did that, finding the historical stuff was easy. You can skip to the time of Christ. Let me know if you have any suggestions. It's more of a reference book than anything else.

Thank you... every time i read the same passage i find always something new that our Lord teaches me, and i also know that God uses all of us to teach each other, wish we could just all do it in a loving way. Like Roads said in a previous post, let us concentrate on the message of our Lord Jesus and not on fighting each other, for this is what He wanted us to do... hence i will look at your book online as soon as i can and will respond... the more we learn the more we are a power unto God to spread His message...

 

[liz.]

If someone decorates a tree with a clean conscience, it's not my place to insist that they are sinning.

I have walked into multiple Christan homes and see no significant difference then in the homes of people who are not Christian.

My best friend and her family celebrated Christmas, it was their favorite holiday. They decorated their house with lights and put up a Christmas tree, however they were not celebrating Christ birth because they were Muslim. They were just partaking in the "American holiday" NOT the "Christian holiday". Not that its important but this was WAY before 2001.

Anyone who walks into my home can CLEARLY tell what I am celebrating. Not because I don't have a tree, Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate this holiday so even they wouldn't have one, but because I have multiple nativity scene's in my home as well as things that are relevant to Christ, it is clear to see what I am celebrating.

My point is, is that I wish there was traditions at this time of the year that specifically ONLY Christians do, so then people can see the difference if a person is celebrating "Christ-mas" or "Christmas".

 

[Charlie812]

I have followed The Lord for many years and have recently found out that HE set forth the way, and the days he wants to be worshipped on and that a lot of the way I was trying to incorporate traditions weren't pleasing to him.. The second answer to your post , the one about the biblical holy days is right I believe. They aren't just for the Jewish people. They are for all people who want to walk in covenant with the one True God of the bible. I had to understand it wasn't how I felt about the traditional American holidays, but what HE thought about them that counts and he definitely doesn't want his name mixed with holidays that he didnt institute...whether i like it or not..

 

[Roads]

My point is, is that I wish there was traditions at this time of the year that specifically ONLY Christians do, so then people can see the difference if a person is celebrating "Christ-mas" or "Christmas".

I think the most important thing is that "people can see the difference" if a person is living their life as one who has been transformed by Christ. To me, this is far more important that what someone might infer by any iconography in a person's home.

My neighbour has a Christmas tradition that I think shows people clearly what he's celebrating:

At Christmas, there are certain needs in our communities that are unique to that time of year. It's the time of year with the highest rates of divorce and suicide. Culturally, families celebrate Christmas together, so people without families can be more prone to loneliness and depression. So my neighbor has a Christmas day celebration where he just invites everyone from the neighbourhood who are alone. They can just come to his house, hang out, get a small gift, have a bbq, and just spend the day not being alone. He's got all the typical Christmas decorations, but when people see his actions, I think they can see clearly that he's choosing to celebrate the culmination of everything Jesus did by demonstrating the effect that Christ has had in his life: by living a life compelled to serve the need in his community with Christ's heart of compassion.

Whatever is said by the icons or decorations in a person's home is superficial compared to what is said by the way they choose to live their lives. I hope the way I choose to live clearly tells what I am celebrating every day of my life.

 

[Charlie812]

Sweet Pea, it did get somewhat derailed but it's totally fine by me. Sunday is a pagan worship day, the sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday because it was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. You can easily search "Why is church on Sunday instead of Saturday" and read a whole bunch of information on that. Pagans have a day of worship as well as every other false religion. I don't care what specific day I worship on because no pagan or false god created the days of the week. Everyday is a good day to worship our God. They did however create their "holy holidays" though which is what we call "Christ-mas"&"Easter" now. I think that the Christians should have separated from the pagans rather then compromising with them to "win them over" and choose a separate day and separate traditions etc. to worship our God if they truly wanted to celebrate his birth and resurrection. That is just my personal opinion. I don't see the point putting a tree in my house as well as partaking in may traditions. How these things are relevant to celebrating Christ birth and resurrection or consistent with biblical teaching's is sadly confusing to me as to why Christians do it. Lastly, I will just add that when Christmas comes around, I think "What would Jesus do if he came into my house, would he appreciate me putting up a tree or a nativity scene for his birthday?".

You are absolutely right!..it most certainly did get changed!..and not by the Father I'm afraid....Saturday is the true sabbath..

 

[Roads]

I have followed The Lord for many years and have recently found out that HE set forth the way, and the days he wants to be worshipped on and that a lot of the way I was trying to incorporate traditions weren't pleasing to him.. The second answer to your post , the one about the biblical holy days is right I believe. They aren't just for the Jewish people. They are for all people who want to walk in covenant with the one True God of the bible. I had to understand it wasn't how I felt about the traditional American holidays, but what HE thought about them that counts and he definitely doesn't want his name mixed with holidays that he didnt institute...whether i like it or not..

That's interesting, I came from exactly the opposite angle. I was raised to not participate in any western traditions, and really, I don't like holidays and I'd rather not be bothered with them at all. I've since come to understand that there are real needs in our communities unique to those holidays, and meeting people's needs is what HE wants me to do... whether I like it or not...

What happened that made you think the OT festivals weren't just for Jewish people? The NT teaches that they were just "shadows" of things to come...

Col 2:16-23 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The OT holidays are good for us to consider. Great, actually. Understanding their significance helps us to understand Christ. We can (and should) understand the substance of these festivals without needing to think of them as laws that are meant for us. For example, take Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, when the whole nation would meet together and collectively repent, and all of their sin (figuratively) would be put on upon a goat (the scapegoat) who would then be sent away from them into the desert. For us now, what would this festival even look like, and what purpose would it serve? Jesus is our atonement, once and for all, Yom Kippur is not necessary, this was simply a shadow of what was to come -- the substance of it belongs to Christ.

 

[liz.]

I think the most important thing is that "people can see the difference" if a person is living their life as one who has been transformed by Christ. To me, this is far more important that what someone might infer by any iconography in a person's home.

My neighbour has a Christmas tradition that I think shows people clearly what he's celebrating:

So my neighbor has a Christmas day celebration where he just invites everyone from the neighbourhood who are alone. They can just come to his house, hang out, get a small gift, have a bbq, and just spend the day not being alone. He's got all the typical Christmas decorations, but when people see his actions, I think they can see clearly that he's choosing to celebrate the culmination of everything Jesus did by demonstrating the effect that Christ has had in his life: by living a life compelled to serve the need in his community with Christ's heart of compassion.

Wow that's great, hopefully he is sharing the gospel with them or there is also Bible reading incorporated or Christian worship songs playing during the event at his house, so that the people can know that he is doing it because he is a Godly man and not because he's a nice guy.

I know an Asian family from my old neighborhood, they claim Buddhism and celebrate every single holiday with their windows and doors open and a sign in their front yard that say's "If your hungry come inside to get food". I kid you not they do this every single year. They spend a lot of time preparing food and to go boxes, there are more people then you think that come into their home and get a plate. Whatever food is left over they go downtown to pass it out to the people who are on the streets. They do this every holiday every year.

 

[Ricko1]

Wow that's great, hopefully he is sharing the gospel with them or there is also Bible reading incorporated or Christian worship songs playing during the event at his house, so that the people can know that he is doing it because he is a Godly man and not because he's a nice guy.

I know an Asian family from my old neighborhood, they claim Buddhism and celebrate every single holiday with their windows and doors open and a sign in their front yard that say's "If your hungry come inside to get food". I kid you not they do this every single year. They spend a lot of time preparing food and to go boxes, there are more people then you think that come into their home and get a plate. Whatever food is left over they go downtown to pass it out to the people who are on the streets. They do this every holiday every year.

This is something Christians should do not just Buddhists..Bless them!

 

[Roads]

Wow that's great, hopefully he is sharing the gospel with them or there is also Bible reading incorporated or Christian worship songs playing during the event at his house, so that the people can know that he is doing it because he is a Godly man and not because he's a nice guy.

I don't know all the things that he does exactly on that day, but I know that he's involved in their lives throughout the year, not only at Christmas. They would know he's a man of God because of how committed He is to taking an interest in their spiritual lives all year long, and making himself a part of guiding them toward Christ.

 

[Abdicate]

It would be interesting to know how you did it, i don't dispute your validity especially since you spent that much time on it and i see you wrote a book on it...

I started in Genesis 1 and noted every time "time" was mentioned... day, hour, year, month until Revelation. Then I put it into an Excel spreadsheet and connected the kings of Israel and Judah and then found key times like the 70 years of captivity in Babylon, then I found the date of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem for Daniel's prophecy and found when Jesus died. Then I looked for when He was born. Then I looked for how many "days" passed and day 4 started when Jesus started His ministry. That was shocking to me. That's it.

 

[Charlie812]

That's interesting, I came from exactly the opposite angle. I was raised to not participate in any western traditions, and really, I don't like holidays and I'd rather not be bothered with them at all. I've since come to understand that there are real needs in our communities unique to those holidays, and meeting people's needs is what HE wants me to do... whether I like it or not...

What happened that made you think the OT festivals weren't just for Jewish people? The NT teaches that they were just "shadows" of things to come...

Col 2:16-23 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The OT holidays are good for us to consider. Great, actually. Understanding their significance helps us to understand Christ. We can (and should) understand the substance of these festivals without needing to think of them as laws that are meant for us. For example, take Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, when the whole nation would meet together and collectively repent, and all of their sin (figuratively) would be put on upon a goat (the scapegoat) who would then be sent away from them into the desert. For us now, what would this festival even look like, and what purpose would it serve? Jesus is our atonement, once and for all, Yom Kippur is not necessary, this was simply a shadow of what was to come -- the substance of it belongs to Christ.

First of all, I appreciate your reply. I think it's great that we can all discuss things like adults. Since I'm a bit pressed for time this reply might not be too long ,sorry.
There are needs to be met in the community but there are needs everyday to be met. Not just during the holidays. Nobody loved Christmas more than I did. It's just a personal conviction not to practice it anymore when I learned the origins of it and of Easter. That's all, just a personal conviction. Once I learned that paging actually make fun of Christiana for sabotaging their holiday I had to step back and wonder why.
By the way, I've got the flu right now and it's terribly hard to concentrate so sorry if this sounds choppy.
The main reason for thinking that the festivals weren't just for Jewish people is that fact the the father didn't give the "instructions " or law to the Jewish people. He gave his instruction to anyone who wanted to follow him. All my life I heard that the laws were just for the Jewish people. But the laws are for anyone who wants to be in a covenant relationship with him. The Gentiles were adopted in to messiah. Now, if I adopt a child into my house, I don't have certain expectations for my children but then say "well, these expectations can't apply to my adopted child because he was adopted from russia(just an example).. And let me clarify , the laws don't save and never have saved anyone. Just like my wife has certain ways she likes to be treated and I have certain ways I want to be treated isn't what makes us married. They are just what shows that I truly love my spouse because I treat her the way she wants to be treated.
the festivals are great for us to look at because they spell out Gods plan for humanity(this could be a whole different post in itself)
I'm not saying that we have to keep these festivals because for us to keep them just as they were kept there would have to be a temple and sacrifices etc. I'm just saying it's good to spend some time observing what the Father is trying to tell us through these feasts. He knows we often need reminded of things and every year we can see his plan for us all through these feasts.

I'm sorry, I have to go. I'm feeling really rough. Hope to be over this flu soon. I'll post more later if I can..

Thanks