Are Piercings Allowed?

[The Town Crier]

You guys are trying to conform the word of God to what you believe is right, rather that conforming yourself to the Gospel..
It doesn't work that way...As God says:

Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

You are never going to be given what you seek because you seek it for the wrong reason-to justify living your fleshy lives. You will never come to the knowledge of the truth as long as you try to conform the truth to how you feel, rather than letting the Holy Spirit and the word of God conform you to the image of Christ. It is simple...when you are born again, you will not care about all the fleshy carnal things that are available to you. You will know your life is hid in Christ and you are dead to the world and its lusts. Your life is but a vapor on this planet and could end in a car wreck or heart attack today...

TC

 

[LysanderShapiro]

You guys are trying to conform the word of God to what you believe is right, rather that conforming yourself to the Gospel..
It doesn't work that way...As God says:

Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

You are never going to be given what you seek because you seek it for the wrong reason-to justify living your fleshy lives. You will never come to the knowledge of the truth as long as you try to conform the truth to how you feel, rather than letting the Holy Spirit and the word of God conform you to the image of Christ. It is simple...when you are born again, you will not care about all the fleshy carnal things that are available to you. You will know your life is hid in Christ and you are dead to the world and its lusts. Your life is but a vapor on this planet and could end in a car wreck or heart attack today...

TC

Not at all. The subject of piercings and tattoos is one that has been debated and discussed for a very long time. I know I'm one of the only few Catholics in here, but coming from a Catholic perspective, the Church has no official position on piercings or tattoos--at least, they are not condemned. Immorality certainly is, and so is sin of the flesh, excess of certain things, etc.

Your idea that this is just wanting to twist scripture the way I want it is nonsense. While we may have a difference of opinion regarding the translation of the scriptures, your accusation of any of us attempting to ignore God's Word out of convenience is, well, pretty insulting actually. This isn't about wanting my cake and to eat it too, this is about where does something cross over into sin? Generally speaking, piercings and tattoos, provided there is nothing hedonistic, immoral, immodest, etc. with each thing, then it hasn't left a spiritual bruise.

Where are you getting the idea that they are wrong besides 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (which is about treating your body with dignity) or Leviticus 19:20 (which is addressing pagan rituals)?

 

[The Town Crier]

Not at all. The subject of piercings and tattoos is one that has been debated and discussed for a very long time. I know I'm one of the only few Catholics in here, but coming from a Catholic perspective, the Church has no official position on piercings or tattoos--at least, they are not condemned. Immorality certainly is, and so is sin of the flesh, excess of certain things, etc.

Your idea that this is just wanting to twist scripture the way I want it is nonsense. While we may have a difference of opinion regarding the translation of the scriptures, your accusation of any of us attempting to ignore God's Word out of convenience is, well, pretty insulting actually. This isn't about wanting my cake and to eat it too, this is about where does something cross over into sin? Generally speaking, piercings and tattoos, provided there is nothing hedonistic, immoral, immodest, etc. with each thing, then it hasn't left a spiritual bruise.

Where are you getting the idea that they are wrong besides 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (which is about treating your body with dignity) or Leviticus 19:20 (which is addressing pagan rituals)?

Good Sir...with all do respect- the Catholic Church does not follow sound doctrine nor does it carry the Spirit of God-I could care less what the 'Catholic Church' has to say. It is as antichrist as any other religious system out there. If you want to renounce Catholicism and its religious works, such as transubstantiation, Mary worship, the Papacy, and the host of other ungodly things that it perpetuates, then perhaps we can chat. If you bring Catholic doctrines into the conversation I am simply not interested in them. Scripture is clear, if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh... There is no gray area and by that you can test your ownself to see if you are 'in the faith'.

Good day,
TC

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Good Sir...with all do respect- the Catholic Church does not follow sound doctrine nor does it carry the Spirit of God-I could care less what the 'Catholic Church' has to say. It is as antichrist as any other religious system out there. If you want to renounce Catholicism and its religious works, such as transubstantiation, Mary worship, the Papacy, and the host of other ungodly things that it perpetuates, then perhaps we can chat. If you bring Catholic doctrines into the conversation I am simply not interested in them. Scripture is clear, if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh... There is no gray area and by that you can test your ownself to see if you are 'in the faith'.

Good day,
TC

I don't mean to say this antagonistically, but to call me "good sir" and follow it up with patronizing, flawed, arrogant remarks against the Church founded by Christ himself is also an insult -- in fact, it's something I can't tolerate as it is an attack not on me, but on Christ. The ridiculous claims of Marian worship, unGodliness, etc, is an attack on a bastardized translation of the Church, not the actual Catholic Church. If the Church promoted Marian worship, idolatry, etc, then I'd agree that it is not a Christian doctrine, but you are falling for the same misconceptions I fell for when I was a Protestant. The idea that the Catholic Church doesn't care about Scripture, changes it, or ignores it is also a huge fallacy. There's a difference between not siding with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and going against the Bible. The Church endorses every word of the Bible.

Likewise, if you bring degrading remarks against the Catholic Church into any conversation, expect a defense. It's not tolerated.

That aside, we are not getting off subject. We are not debating different Christian denominations.

 

[The Town Crier]

I don't mean to say this antagonistically, but to call me "good sir" and follow it up with patronizing, flawed, arrogant remarks against the Church founded by Christ himself is also an insult -- in fact, it's something I can't tolerate as it is an attack not on me, but on Christ. The ridiculous claims of Marian worship, unGodliness, etc, is an attack on a bastardized translation of the Church, not the actual Catholic Church. If the Church promoted Marian worship, idolatry, etc, then I'd agree that it is not a Christian doctrine, but you are falling for the same misconceptions I fell for when I was a Protestant.

Likewise, if you bring degrading remarks against the Catholic Church into any conversation, expect a defense. It's not tolerated.

That aside, we are not getting off subject. We are not debating different Christian denominations.

Christ did not form the Catholic church nor its doctrines.. I am sorry Peter is not the cornerstone of your 'church'.

Is Christ divided...Would Christians kill other Christians? The Catholic church is responsible for countless deaths of Christians since its beginnings. The one thing the Catholic Church cannot hide is its history nor its fruit...I am sorry but that religion is not of God.

TC

 

[KingJ]

The real question at hand is whether or not tattoos and piercings are all in all mortal sins.

Certainly not a mortal sin. But it is not really a venial sin either. It is something different. Like spitting in God's face. Remember the ark of the covenant was not allowed to be marked by anyone.

There is also a bad smelling pagan history with tattoos and piercings that no Christian kneeling in self judgement before God can ignore.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Christ did not form the Catholic church nor its doctrines.. I am sorry Peter is not the cornerstone of your 'church'.

Is Christ divided...Would Christians kill other Christians? The Catholic church is responsible for countless deaths of Christians since its beginnings. The one thing the Catholic Church cannot hide is its history nor its fruit...I am sorry but that religion is not of God.

TC

Christ did indeed form the Catholic Church, and its doctrine comes from the Word of God. Peter was appointed His vicar as expressed in the scriptures.

Christ is NOT divided. If you are addressing the other misconceptions of silly myths about the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades (one being a political address in Spain, not a forced and violent means of conversion, and the Crusades being a response to attacks, not aggression on the innocent). But even if I were to grant you that many Catholics have been far from Christian, this doesn't mean the Church is now flawed, it means those individuals are. The laity and the clergy can be flawed, but the magisterium of the Catholic Church, the entity itself, is not.

With all due respect, if you are going to criticize the Catholic Church, that is fine, but recognize what it is and what it is not.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Certainly not a mortal sin. But it is not really a venial sin either. It is something different. Like spitting in God's face. Remember the ark of the covenant was not allowed to be marked by anyone.

There is also a bad smelling pagan history with tattoos and piercings that no Christian kneeling in self judgement before God can ignore.

Pagan history is different from pagan practices. The holiday Easter has pagan history, but we wouldn't dare throw that out the window as it has become a wonderful day in celebrating the greatest gift of all.

I think spitting in God's face IS a pretty big sin, and if either of these things are like spitting in His face, then I think it would be valid in calling it a sin. However, marking the ark of the covenant and discussing piercings and tattoos is comparing apples to oranges.

The subject of prudence is something worth mentioning as well.

 

[The Town Crier]

Christ did indeed form the Catholic Church, and its doctrine comes from the Word of God. Peter was appointed His vicar as expressed in the scriptures.

I hate to break it to you, but Peter was not the 'vicar' of Christ... The Holy Spirit is the VICAR of CHRIST. Jesus said 'I will send you the comforter to teach you'. The Holy Spirit builds the house of God and though the Spirit we have access to God without a 'Pope'. Jesus is our High Priest. Peter was simply the first rock in the 'building' and by no means a 'replacement' for Christ. The builder and maker is God- through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said Himself-I must go or the comforter cannot come to you. Peter was not even converted while Jesus was still on the Earth...The foundation and teachings of the Catholic Church is heresy. The Catholic Church has no claim to the throne of God...

TC

 

[KingJ]

Pagan history is different from pagan practices. The holiday Easter has pagan history, but we wouldn't dare throw that out the window as it has become a wonderful day in celebrating the greatest gift of all.

But we can't do that comparison. Easter holiday is not a permanent mark on our body. Pagan tattoos were heavily symbolic of their pagan culture and very personal to their beliefs as it is a permanent mark on their body. If it was temporary fine! No issues whatsoever.

The other issue is vanity. Show me a tattoo that is not from vanity. Anyone you know have humble tattoos of a duck? chicken? Care bears? Bugs bunny? Last I saw it was mean looking dragons. Super stylish calligraphy verses or crosses.

I think spitting in God's face IS a pretty big sin, and if either of these things are like spitting in His face, then I think it would be valid in calling it a sin. However, marking the ark of the covenant and discussing piercings and tattoos is comparing apples to oranges.

How is it comparing apples to oranges when they are both the dwelling place of God?

I say spitting in God's face because judging it can be different from person to person. But, yes spitting in God's face is extreme. Lighting will follow that .

 

[KingJ]

Christ did not form the Catholic church nor its doctrines.. I am sorry Peter is not the cornerstone of your 'church'.

Is Christ divided...Would Christians kill other Christians? The Catholic church is responsible for countless deaths of Christians since its beginnings. The one thing the Catholic Church cannot hide is its history nor its fruit...I am sorry but that religion is not of God.

TC

TC, calm down brother. This is not the place or time for this discussion.

The devil would only seek to attack a church that lifts up Jesus....end of arguable issues! Now onto friendly discussion in another thread...

 

[LysanderShapiro]

But we can't do that comparison. Easter holiday is not a permanent mark on our body. Pagan tattoos were heavily symbolic of their pagan culture and very personal to their beliefs as it is a permanent mark on their body. If it was temporary fine! No issues whatsoever. We are literally tainting our body which we know to be the temple of God.

The other issue is vanity. Show me a tattoo that is not from vanity. Anyone you know have humble tattoos of a duck? chicken? Care bears? Bugs bunny? Last I saw it was mean looking dragons. Super stylish calligraphy verses or crosses.

I think that's a valid argument. However, to claim every single tattoo is shear vanity because you are judging silly tattoos like dragons or stylish calligraphy. Many tattoos either in celebration of their faith or their families aren't so much in vain.

Easter, just like tattoos, is a permanent, not temporary. There will always be celebration of Christ's sacrifice for us, and thank God it's not temporary.

How is it comparing apples to oranges when they are both the dwelling place of God?

That's actually a great point. The difference I think is a disrespect vs. something that isn't... though I think you're also concluding that even if it is indirect, it is still disrespectful. Though I don't think tattoos nor piercings automatically equal self-mutilation, and I think that's the divide. Though many times, tattoos and piercings CAN become that way. Great point nonetheless. Kudos

 

[The Town Crier]

Christ did indeed form the Catholic Church, and its doctrine comes from the Word of God. Peter was appointed His vicar as expressed in the scriptures.

Christ is NOT divided. If you are addressing the other misconceptions of silly myths about the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades (one being a political address in Spain, not a forced and violent means of conversion, and the Crusades being a response to attacks, not aggression on the innocent). But even if I were to grant you that many Catholics have been far from Christian, this doesn't mean the Church is now flawed, it means those individuals are. The laity and the clergy can be flawed, but the magisterium of the Catholic Church, the entity itself, is not.

With all due respect, if you are going to criticize the Catholic Church, that is fine, but recognize what it is and what it is not.

This did not post correctly so I reposted it

I hate to break it to you, but Peter was not the 'vicar' of Christ... The Holy Spirit is the VICAR of CHRIST. Jesus said 'I will send you the comforter to teach you'. The Holy Spirit builds the house of God and though the Spirit we have access to God without a 'Pope'. Jesus is our High Priest. Peter was simply the first rock in the 'building' and by no means a 'replacement' for Christ. The builder and maker is God- through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said Himself-I must go or the comforter cannot come to you. Peter was not even converted while Jesus was still on the Earth...The foundation and teachings of the Catholic Church is heresy. The Catholic Church has no claim to the throne of God...

 

[ixoye_8]

Your words are carnal minded and the Holy Spirit is Spiritual...Perhaps you should test what 'spirit; you are hearing because not all spirits are of God. God instructs us in righteousness, not in what kind of tattoo we should or shouldn't have. The things of the flesh strive against the Spirit. Here is my advice..don't get a tattoo, get a circumcised heart. It is a little more painful but it is free and lasts forever...

TC

I gave her the verse that says "God is Holy so you are to be holy" as a measuring stick ..
and you find that carnal ??? .. LOL
I don't think the spirit you are listening to is holy ..
why all the anti-Catholic dialogue ???
is that your personal crusade ??? .. GOD WILLS IT ..
ahhh .. I can just feel the love in that ..
perhaps you are a new Christian and your zeal is not yet tempered with wisdom and patience .. as Paul said; IF YOU DO NOT HAVE LOVE, YOU ARE NOTHING ..

BTW: Doctrine does not impute salvation .. nor does not having a tattoo ..

 

[The Town Crier]

I gave her the verse that says "God is Holy so you are to be holy" as a measuring stick ..
and you find that carnal ??? .. LOL
I don't think the spirit you are listening to is holy ..
why all the anti-Catholic dialogue ???
is that your personal crusade ??? .. GOD WILLS IT ..
perhaps you are a new Christian and your zeal is not yet tempered with wisdom and patience .. as Paul said; IF YOU DO NOT HAVE LOVE, YOU ARE NOTHING ..

BTW: Doctrine does not impute salvation .. nor does not having a tattoo ..

I wasn't referring to any specific words, I am referring to the entire topic. It is based upon carnal/fleshy matters.

The Catholic doctrine has spiritually murdered millions of souls, blasphemes the word of God, glorifies a pope instead of God, usurps the power of the Holy Spirit, and a host of other things. If you love the word of God and Jesus is dear to you, you will defend His Holy name against all of these atrocities. I have no ill will towards the man I am conversing with, but the doctrines which he believes are of devils.

TC

 

[LysanderShapiro]

This did not post correctly so I reposted it

I hate to break it to you, but Peter was not the 'vicar' of Christ... The Holy Spirit is the VICAR of CHRIST. Jesus said 'I will send you the comforter to teach you'. The Holy Spirit builds the house of God and though the Spirit we have access to God without a 'Pope'. Jesus is our High Priest. Peter was simply the first rock in the 'building' and by no means a 'replacement' for Christ. The builder and maker is God- through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said Himself-I must go or the comforter cannot come to you. Peter was not even converted while Jesus was still on the Earth...The foundation and teachings of the Catholic Church is heresy. The Catholic Church has no claim to the throne of God...

TC, I'd love to further defend the faith and explain where you are misunderstanding the Catholic Church (like thinking that the pope is a "replacement" which is nonsense), but this really isn't that kind of forum.

I will gladly explain where you are missing it, but first there needs to be a dedicated thread for it as we've been warned before for having these discussions. But I'd like to say that you are wrong -- perhaps what you THINK the Catholic Church is would indeed be heresy, but you don't seem to know what the Catholic Church really is, only stuff heard from the media and anti-Catholic sentiment.

This forum has done well in both Catholics and Protestants coming together in expressing praise and glory to our Lord. If you have questions or concerns, you are more than welcome to ask and express, but let's not bring a divide. We are all Christians here despite doctrinal differences.

 

[ixoye_8]

I wasn't referring to any specific words, I am referring to the entire topic. It is based upon carnal/fleshy matters.

so what .. she has questions .. because we love we help others .. what kind of car do you own and how did you decide which to buy ???
just because we are not of the world, does not mean we are not in it ..

The Catholic doctrine has spiritually murdered millions of souls, blasphemes the word of God, glorifies a pope instead of God, usurps the power of the Holy Spirit, and a host of other things. If you love the word of God and Jesus is dear to you, you will defend His Holy name against all of these atrocities. I have no ill will towards the man I am conversing with, but the doctrines which he believes are of devils.

that is bearing false witness ..
doctrine does NOT impute salvation .. never did never will ..

 

[RiverJordan]

It is simple...when you are born again, you will not care about all the fleshy carnal things that are available to you. You will know your life is hid in Christ and you are dead to the world and its lusts. Your life is but a vapor on this planet and could end in a car wreck or heart attack today...

So when you're born again, do you brush your teeth? Comb and style your hair? Wear nice clothes? Wear any jewelry? Wear deodorant, cologne, or perfume?

What you're posting makes it sound as if once we're born again, we all become nuns and monks.

 

[ixoye_8]

So when you're born again, do you brush your teeth? Comb and style your hair? Wear nice clothes? Wear any jewelry? Wear deodorant, cologne, or perfume?

What you're posting makes it sound as if once we're born again, we all become nuns and monks.

maybe a camel hair cloak .. LOL

TC .. in the Covenant of Faith all things not explicitly enumerated as a sin then fall under the liberty granted us through the Covenant .. so what is sin to one may not be to another, as their conscience either defends or condemns them .. this is what ALL were trying to tell her in words she could understand ..
Jam 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

 

[The Town Crier]

TC, I'd love to further defend the faith and explain where you are misunderstanding the Catholic Church (like thinking that the pope is a "replacement" which is nonsense), but this really isn't that kind of forum.

I will gladly explain where you are missing it, but first there needs to be a dedicated thread for it as we've been warned before for having these discussions. But I'd like to say that you are wrong -- perhaps what you THINK the Catholic Church is would indeed be heresy, but you don't seem to know what the Catholic Church really is, only stuff heard from the media and anti-Catholic sentiment.

This forum has done well in both Catholics and Protestants coming together in expressing praise and glory to our Lord. If you have questions or concerns, you are more than welcome to ask and express, but let's not bring a divide. We are all Christians here despite doctrinal differences.

You said yourself that 'Peter was the 'vicar'. The Popes are called 'Vicars' The word vicar means replacement or substitute. Peter never was a bishop or Pope of Rome nor did he 'pass on' any keys to another Pope. Religion is of the Devil.

Christ in a persons heart, causing them to live their life according to His will is what makes a Christian.

Many are going to say Lord Lord...Deny Catholicism and just say you are a Christian. Why glorify a religion when you can glorify God? I am not going to debate Catholicism here.. I am simply saying I will not listen to the doctrines of Catholicism or even acknowledge them to be truth. That said, back to your discussion about 'tattoos' and other acts of the flesh..

TC