Are We Close To The Second Coming?

Rusty said:
Thanks, Dirty.

It just seems odd that Christians rely on the actions of non-Christians to tell them what the "signs of the times" are...
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Odd to me that the "signs" were not destruction, or even war. When asked what the signs of the end of the world would be, Jesus said in Matt. 24:4-5.....................

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many will come in my name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many".

Clearly, the #1 and #2 signs given by the Lord was "religious deception".

Then there is the actual event as recorded in Revelation 13:14 where the "religious false prophet" forces all men on the earth to worship, deceive and receive the mark of the beast.

Rev. 13:14
"And DECEIVETH them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast which had the wound by a sword and did live".

I believe I will go with the Word of God and not opinions.
 
Glomung said:
"Nope, even drunk, Jesus was the last thing you wanted to talk about. "

You'd be surprised. In my experience, after a few beers a lot of folks tend to get philosophical and start to gripe about the emptiness in their lives. I've talked 2 people out of suicide and gotten a couple married after a few drinks.
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Yep, alcohol will certainly loosen the tongue my friend.
 
Rusty said:
Of course, fish153....But I see no suggestion in the Word that "technology" has doodly to do with the conversion of hearts. God is not dependent on our meager inventions. He's done just fine without any of the bells and whistles of the past 150 years.
I have huge collection of "end times" books from across denominational lines. Every time some new scientific whiz bang happens, the overzealous salivate that it's a "sign". I have books that go back to 1874: steam power was surely ultimate utility to convert the heathen: missions can be built lickety split and Bibles shipped by the ton.....still plenty of heathen about.

Radio! Yes.....Billy Sunday claimed it would "convert the world" and destroy the "liquor business"....still going on it's drunken way, however.

TV! Yes! That's what will save the world....millions of TV evangelists told us so and asked us to send in our $$ and put our hands on the set to be healed. It's still dribbling away around the world, but trust me: secular TV is much more available via satellite and cable than decent Christian preaching...

And here's the crux : Why is it N. Americans (and some Europeans) think the whole world is flooded with computers, just because THEIR world is? Don't they know of the poverty of S.America, Africa, Asia and Oceania keeps billions from even thinking about owning a computer....let alone whether their cash strapped country even has a server.

No....and is not dependent on our "info toys". He just wants dedicated men and women who will speak of Christ one on one and live a life that is not a sham. He'll take care of the rest, without any need for iPods and blogs.

Thanks for your opinion fish153...but look inward not outward for any signs of His return; you don't want to be ashamed because you were looking for the wrong things and not "about your Father's business" due to popular Churchianity's newest "signs chart".
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Rusty---

I have many books regarding the "end of days" too. William Miller was sure 1843 was the date, and so on, and so on..... and as I said, no one of us knows when Christ will come back. But Jesus did tell his disciples that there would be certain signs which would appear shortly before his return. One of them was when the "fig tree begins to sprout.." which I do truly believe was the re-formation of Israel as a nation. I believe we are truly blessed to be living in the time when God has definitely fulfilled one of his promises. Is there a God? Yes---pick up a map and see the country of Israel on it. God said they would return to their land, and they have.

I do not want to argue with you Rusty--that is not the point of my posts at all. If I have an argument, it is that we need to be faithful servants where God has put us----but we should not become scoffers concerning his second coming. Just because past generations have proclaimed certain events as "signs of his coming" does not mean we should become negative, and scoff at signs such as the nation of Israel, nuclear weapons, and computer technology. These are definite signs that we are very close to the coming of Christ. How soon? I don't know. But I'm going to "watch" as Jesus commanded, and not allow my heart to begin to scoff (see 2nd Peter where "scoffers" are another sign of the last days). God bless you--as I said you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe we are very, very near to Christ's second coming.
 
Fish153 said:
Rusty---

I have many books regarding the "end of days" too. William Miller was sure 1843 was the date, and so on, and so on..... and as I said, no one of us knows when Christ will come back. But Jesus did tell his disciples that there would be certain signs which would appear shortly before his return. One of them was when the "fig tree begins to sprout.." which I do truly believe was the re-formation of Israel as a nation. I believe we are truly blessed to be living in the time when God has definitely fulfilled one of his promises. Is there a God? Yes---pick up a map and see the country of Israel on it. God said they would return to their land, and they have.

I do not want to argue with you Rusty--that is not the point of my posts at all. If I have an argument, it is that we need to be faithful servants where God has put us----but we should not become scoffers concerning his second coming. Just because past generations have proclaimed certain events as "signs of his coming" does not mean we should become negative, and scoff at signs such as the nation of Israel, nuclear weapons, and computer technology. These are definite signs that we are very close to the coming of Christ. How soon? I don't know. But I'm going to "watch" as Jesus commanded, and not allow my heart to begin to scoff (see 2nd Peter where "scoffers" are another sign of the last days). God bless you--as I said you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe we are very, very near to Christ's second coming.
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Keep the faith Fish!

I am with you my brother.

Jesus is coming again and the things we see all around us just point to it being very soon.

Most of the "signs" have been with us for thousands of years but now for the first time they are coming together all at the same time.
 
Major said:
Keep the faith Fish!

I am with you my brother.

Jesus is coming again and the things we see all around us just point to it being very soon.

Most of the "signs" have been with us for thousands of years but now for the first time they are coming together all at the same time.
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Amen Major! Yes--- the signs of his coming are increasing in intensity as he said they would--as a woman in travail. Bless you my friend----and keep looking up! :)
 
I've been relatively quiet on this thread mainly because I am in between both sides of this argument. I think the key goes back to 'time'.

Operating on our clock it sure seems imminent-I don't know- like maybe tomorrow with Syria and Israel?

But on the other hand; whose clock are we on? The Eternal One. Always takes me back to Acts 1:7.

I am starting to become more concerned with souls than whether or not I am going to wake up in front of the judgement seat in fifteen minutes.

Overall, I think pride leads us to believe 'it has to be our generation'. Quite frankly, it could be another thousand years. Just finished 2 Kings tonight (again), I think it is highly 'relevant' too read through 1 & 2 Kings and apply it to our current state of the world.
 
Dirty rotten sinner--

You are correct. It could be tomorrow---or it could a thousand years from now. I am far more prone to believe it is very soon though. I apologize to you Rusty for saying you were like an ostrich, or that you are a "scoffer"--that was an unfair thing to say and I am sorry. I think though it is important to see other "signs" from the Bible too though. When Jesus was transfigured (a type of the second coming) it says it was "six days" after he had spoken about his return to the disciples. The earth has had 6 thousand years of civilization. I think the Bible stating that it was "six" days later is very significant. A year with the Lord is as a thousand years, or a thousand years as a day. That doesn't mean that every thousand years is a "day" to the Lord, but if you consider it in that way, 6 days = 6 thousand years. Jesus has been gone for 2 thousand years.

In my opinion, it is a very short time until he appears again. All the more reason to preach the Gospel to the lost, and with all diligince do our job as "stewards" here on earth. Praise the Lord! Sorry once again Rusty---I was being quite harsh and I really am sorry.
 
I think you know how I feel about the real issue at hand-the condition of the 'Church'. ;)

The Body of Christ is ill-it has an heart condition-the more I see it the more it makes sense that the LORD will be back soon. Our Great Physician has one last surgery to perform; to cut the malignancy out.

We are the white blood cells; we are not doing the job we were commissioned for. But then again, the body has been ill since the beginning...

Oh 'time' why do you pester me so?
 
As some have said - we are one day closer. I agree that many generations past, thought they were the last generation. Despite this, did they get ready? Is the world a better place as a consequence? In plane instructions, they say "get your own oxygen mask on first." Christ Second Coming is the Good part of a time of malovolent, destructive, soul searing times. I don't wish to experience this, if I can help it because I am human and I do not love pain and torture and dire negative things. But I will do so, if so called, because I love God. I think that is the first "plank" in getting ready for myself and for everyone else. "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition..." (OK - drama queen here, remember). But no one gets thru this life alone, we need God and each other - second coming or no. I agree with Fish about the signs abounding around us, now, and I agree with Rusty, that we must go one on one to become ready for whenever it happens.
 
Rusty said:
Apology accepted, fish153....That's a sign of a big man, one who's ability to admit his mistakes.

As I said: I've never claimed the 2nd Advent as far off, delayed or anything of that nature. I strong suggest that the "signs" you pointed to are NOT spiritually based, but based on the dispensationalist/Futurist/Darby/Scofield agenda.They are secular current events based, geo-politically based and based on the actions of Christ-rejectors, whether Jewish, Muslim, or pagan.

I repeat: where is the prophecy concerning the bloodiest century of wars e.g. WWI and WWI in the Bible?
Where is any hint that man will destroy the planet with H-bombs?
Where is the establishment by GOD of a secular country named Israel cobbled out by "Christian nations" via the League of Nations, the UN and where is the evidence that all the Babylonian Exile prophecies of the Hebrew nation of the distant past are for 1948?

The signs of the times are most evident from the chaos among "Christian societies", their church battles, the hatred and squabbling among those that claim the name of Christ, their half-heartedness towards missions, help for their own poor, care of their own aged, etc. etc.

The fig tree with no fruit that Christ saw full off leaves....what is that a sign of? A nation once called Israel OR those who claim to serve and worship God? <---------------I pick that answer.
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Thank God for the SPIRUTALY DESERNED men such as Darby and Dr. Scofield whose rightly division of the Word of God led us to understand dispensationalism and the Futurist agenda.

Personally Rusty, it bothers me deeply as a Christian that you continually demean and disrespect such a great Christian leader, teacher, preacher, scholar as Dr. Scofield. My guess is that he led more people to Christ than you have ever met. IMO he deserves respect and honor not the opposite. But that is another thread isn't it!

Your comments have and still do show that your agenda is Replacement Theology. Be that as it may I want to address those who are reading this more than to you.

My point is that any one reading your opinion is free to follow your thinking, but for others who are interested, allow me to give you some of the reasons why the DISPENSATIONAL/FUTURISTIC approach to the "End Times" is the correct one.

If anyone is interested, please open your Bible and follow along in your Bible and allow it to be the basis for truth, not any opinions or thoughts, just the Word of God. Then you will be equiped and able to make a clear choice. And that is what it is all about isn't it?????? CHOICE!!!!

1.
The Beast of Rev. 11-19 is the same as Daniel's 4th Beast of Daniel 7, which is that yet FUTURE final kingdom which is destroyed just prior to the establishment of the kingdom of heaven.

2.
The five time specifications of the book of Revelation (11:2---11:3---12:6, 14----13:5) upon study harmonize perfectly with the time specifications and events which surround the yet FUTURE 7 year period called Daniel's 70th Week.
(Dan. 9:27---8:25----12:7)

3.
The FURURISTIC approach to the End Times is the only one which harmonizes the following Bible truths:
Daniel 9:24, 26-27; 7:19-27; 8:23-25.
Matthew chapters 24 & 25.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Jerimiah 30:4-10
Romans 11:25-16
John 5:25
Zech. 12:9-14; 8:23
Jerimiah 23:5-8.

The FUTURISTIC approach is the ONLY one that unify's all these verses into one unified eschatological program.

4.
The FUTURISTIC approach is the ONLY one that accomplishes the purpose explained in Rev. 1:1................
"To show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass".

The Liberal approach denies this ability.
The Allegorical spiritualizes away the real things which are in fact revealed.
The Preterit approach tells us that all of the things yet to happen have already taken place.
The Historical approach presents items so veiled that they can not be identified even after they are completed.
The Topical sees only general trends rather that future "real things".

5.
The FUTURISTIC approach does not resort to unwarranted allegorization of the symbolic as well as literal details of the Apocalypse as does the Historical and Topical.

6.
The FUTURISTIC view yields a premillennial coming of Christ while the Topical view with its cyclic pattern placing Rev. 20 BEFORE Rev. 19 locically leads to "Amillennialism".

I sincerely hope this is a help to some, and if not .......don't read it. I hope you all will use your Bible as I reccomend and make this a Bible study that will bless you and help your understanding of the great even which is just over the hilltop!!!!
 
Great post Major. I do hold to the futuristic approach as you can see in my posts also. I believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture, and a literal millenium. I believe we are most definitely living in the very last days. I believe Israel becoming a nation again is a major sign of His return. I apologize to Rusty because I was being harsh, but do not agree with his theology at all. Israel exists due to the very hand of God. And we are extremely blessed to be alive to see this prophecy being fulfilled (Israel is growing to grow much bigger than it is now). Praise the Lord!
 
I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture, mainly because of what God told me but I want to believe in it if that helps ya, Major and Fish. And I don't believe God replaced Israel as his chosen people - but whatever gets ya thru the nite. I hear alot of labels being slung around, lately. Those all seem to limit my love of God to little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky tacky. I honestly don't know how you guys with clubs hope to convince anyone who is out of range of your swing. Just saying, in a ticked off sort of way.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head with 'labels' Silk-The "Church" has always been the "Church" since "The People" were established from Adam-Noah-Abraham-Jacob-Moses-Jesus Christ-Peter-Paul.....

The 'Church' is the people of God-no matter where they come from-it is not a human made establishment, religion or a building. We people of the 'Church' need to repent and accept responsibility for the condition of the Church-the body of Christ. ALL parts of the body have a place and use whether it be 'Jews' or 'Roman Catholic' or 'Protestant'-WE created the labels-not God. Paul says it best....

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

It is we humans that have a selfish pride problem and created elite status labels for ourselves...even the word 'Christian' is a human label created for those who follow Christ. A 'Jew' that begins to follow Christ would become a 'Christian'. BUT they usually won't wear that title. Why? Because 'the Children of God' are and will always be 'the Children of God' if you understand that we are ALL children of God from Adam. Some will be cleansed and some will be cast into outer darkness.

This whole thing we are in is simply the growing field-the wheat will be separated from the tares,-the good fruit from the bad- good versus evil. Without the Holy Spirit inside, you will be placed on God's left hand at the throne-not the place you want to be.

Don't over complicate the simplicity of Christ's message:

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
2 Corinthians 11
 
Dear Dirtyrottensinner,

You wrote:"It is we humans that have a selfish pride problem and created elite status labels for ourselves...even the word 'Christian' is a human label created for those who follow Christ. A 'Jew' that begins to follow Christ would become a 'Christian'. BUT they usually won't wear that title."

I just want to point you to this verse: "... It thus came about that for a whole year they gathered together with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians." (Acts 11:26)

Just saying. :)
Love, little flower
 
little flower said:
Dear Dirtyrottensinner,

You wrote:"It is we humans that have a selfish pride problem and created elite status labels for ourselves...even the word 'Christian' is a human label created for those who follow Christ. A 'Jew' that begins to follow Christ would become a 'Christian'. BUT they usually won't wear that title."

I just want to point you to this verse: "... It thus came about that for a whole year they gathered together with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians." (Acts 11:26)

Just saying. :)
Love, little flower
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It is a truth you speak-but 'why' was it necessary? ;) This is why we have an argument between 'Jew' versus 'Christian' and 'Church'. God ordained it because of those who refused to accept Christ as the Messiah.

We are to be a 'peculiar people' sanctified-separate. ALL can come to the saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ-even the 'Jew'. They need Jesus Christ just like everyone else. We are all in the same boat-some on port, some on the starboard, some on the fore and some on the aft. The boat is a rockin......

"Bloodline' does not mean automatic salvation.
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
It is a truth you speak-but 'why' was it necessary? ;) This is why we have an argument between 'Jew' versus 'Christian' and 'Church'. God ordained it because of those who refused to accept Christ as the Messiah.

We are to be a 'peculiar people' sanctified-separate. ALL can come to the saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ-even the 'Jew'. They need Jesus Christ just like everyone else. We are all in the same boat-some on port, some on the starboard, some on the fore and some on the aft. The boat is a rockin......

"Bloodline' does not mean automatic salvation.
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It wasn't necessary. I am sorry!
I just wanted to appear smart. :(
 
Come now-don't defeat yourself-it was a necessity if God sanction it. You revealed a very good point. Don't be so down on yourself. The problem is, you opened up a can of worms for the 'replacement' theology people.....
 
Thank you DRS for those fine Corinthian verses. :) I came to this forum, looking for people of God. You wouldn't think it was so very hard, it being a Christian web site. I, too, am concerned about the condition of the body of Christ. It seems at times that Christians are at war with other Christians and I can't help wondering how they think this will help things? We must start where we all agree and then move onward with love and understanding - not judgement, anger, and hate.
 
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