Auschwitz: God On Trial
- Thread starter I_Survived_The_Eighties
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Oh wait...nvm...you probably wont like because it's a Rabbi. wooops
OMG don't listen to me. Are you Jewish? I never know what is going to offend people on here. 
This is my conclusion: "God’s permission is not the same as His approval".
This is my conclusion: "God’s permission is not the same as His approval".
I know very little about other denominations so excuse my ignorance please.
right
I think this one addressed a little of what you were talking about:
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-Holocaust.html
This is why I hadn't been back for awhile. Twisting of words, meanings, and thoughts. If you can't do some work yourself and read Deuteronomy 29, 30 and the covenant with Abraham, I'm not going to spoon feed you the answers.
I survived the 80's, the answer to your question is God was bound to act, that's why he allowed the holocaust. Deuteronomy 29 and 30 are prophetic and speak to a much future time. But God couldn't banish them forever, based on the covenant and unconditional promise with Abraham.
im actually feeling great even after hearing the bad news about having to have Radiation and Chemo. I am allowed to watch TV now too! As i missed my dvds films, thou computer is still really a no no, cause of the color white.At times i wish every website had a color option where i can change the back ground from white to maybe grey or dark grey usually works well, but could not find any such option.
I can't stare at a screen that has too much white to avoid sezisures, so thats why im usually coming and going. At least i get warnings before it strikes. Even a simple walk in town where i might be looking at the white pavement to long can trigger it. In fact it has got to the point where i am begining to hate the color white
Also be good to meet others on here that have actually experience a tumor OP, not who might know of someone who has, you have to experince it first to really understand. Its a trip to hell and back.But having said all that im in Good spirits. Well ya gotta be to get through it.
Yes-the churches backed Hitler for the most part. As they say-history repeats itself. This is the perfect example of what is happening in the USA today. Most people will support the 'establishment' without stepping out of the security of their comfort zone in fear of losing what they have. Christ taught the opposite-so what should we learn from this....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
And the people chose Barabbas ......John 18:40
I'm with you Glomung, I weep for my country and the people in it...time is a ticking for the USA. We have traded our sovereignty to the NWO so the elitist(s) can play golf with celebrities while the po'folks suffer and become dependents on the system that is killing them.
Now let me see if I understand what you and Rusty are telling us..........Jesus was not a Jew.
Your quote was.........
"-I doubt he was a "Jew"!
There are several things then that you need to consider my brother. The 1st of which is that Jesus was born a Jew.
Jesus is a real, LITERAL, historical person, born in the Land of Israel, during the Roman. That fact is recorded by secular Jews and Romans of that day.
Consider Matt. 1:1
"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ the son of Favid, the son of Abraham""\.
Abraham was the first Hebrew. God changed his name from Abram to Abraham in Gen 17:5. In Gen. 14:13 he is called Abram the Hebrew. So we can see that Jesus is descended from "Abram the Hebrew." Even to this day, Jews are also called "Hebrews", and the language of the Jews is "Hebrew."
Abraham and his descendants were given the unconditional covenant of the Promised Land in Gen 17:8 and the covenant of circumcision in Gen 17:10 . Abraham is the father of the Jews in Acts 3:12-25.
Isaac was his son and Jacob was his grandson. Thus, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are known as the Patriarchs, the fathers of the Jews. Now that is Bible facts not an opinion.
So how do we get to the name JEW. That seems tobe where you guys are coming from. Now here is your comment and Rusty agreed with it...............FRS said:
"Before that they were "Hebrews", "Children of Israel" I guess you could argue that they are equal in some context-but Hebrew is the Bloodline, whereas "Jew" is a religious designation."
Really? Remember one of the sons of Abraham was Jacob? I realize this looks like a Bible class study but it seems to be needed.
Jacob's name was changed by God to ISRAEL in Gen 35:10-12 ISRAEL and he had twelve sons from whom come the Twelve Tribes of Israel. All of their descendants are known collectively throughout the Bible as the Children of Isral.
One of those twelve sons was Judah and that is in Gen. 35:23 and also Matt. 1:2 and it is from his name that we get the word 'Jew'. Although Yehudah (Judah) was only one of the twelve, by 700 BCE, because of the course of Israel's history, the word Yehudee (Jew) came to mean any person descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Jer. 34:9).
So, for instance, Saul haShaliach (the Apostle Paul) was of the tribe of Benjamin (Rom. 11:1) yet he identified as a Jew.
According to the Bible, and that is always the focus of truth, the Messiah must be descended from the tribe of Judah as King David was and descended from King David himself. That is why the Messiah is called Son of David.
Jesus is from the Tribe of Judah. His earthly father was descended from David as did Mary also.
There is no question that Biblically, Jesus was born a Jew.
BUT, then you need to consider that Jesus LIVED as a Jew.
Although He was born in Bethlehem He was raised in Nazareth. Both were Jewish towns at the time, according to archeologists and historians. Bethlehem is just south of Jerusalem while Nazareth is north, in the Galilee section. Both of Jesus's parents were from Nazareth and they returned there with the Child when they had done everything according to the Law of the Lord that His birth required. His aunt and uncle were also Torah observant Jews so we can see that probably the whole family took their faith very seriously.
Not only was Jesus born a Jew, He lived the life of a Jew.
Then you have to consider that Jesus died a Jew.
When Jesus was taken prisoner by the Romans, his cohort, and some Jewish officials , He was delivered into the custody of the Jewish priests, elders, and scribes . The Roman soldiers would not have placed Him under Jewish jurisdiction if He were not Jewish.
Later, Jesus was brought before the Sanhedrin, the Jewish council . He was charged with an offense against Jewish Law. Pilate, head of the Roman occupation, also recognized Jewish jurisdiction over Jesus . This was because Jesus was a Jew .
He identified Himself as the Messiah and the Messiah must be Jewish. He said He is the King of the Jews and, as we have also seen above, the King of the Jews must Himself be Jewish. The Jewish crowd also called Him 'King of the Jews'. He was mocked, spat on and beaten by the Roman soldiers as 'King of the Jews' and when they crucified Him, their charge was 'King of the Jews'.
The place of judgment had a Hebrew place-name and the place of crucifixion had a Hebrew place-name.
Joseph of Arimethea, who took custody of Yeshua's body, was Jewish and he laid the body in his own new tomb Therefore, Yeshua was buried in a Jewish cemetery. He was also buried according to Jewish custom of the time.
Without doubt, Jesus died a Jew.
Then you need also to consider the Jesus was resurrected a Jew.
Jesus the risen Jew told his Jewish disciples to go out and teach all the Gentiles (Matt. 28:19, Strong's # 1484).
Then, after eating, talking and walking with His disciples, Jesus, "lifted up His hands and blessed them" (Luke 24:50). What blessing is spoken with lifted hands? The Aaronic Benediction (Num. 6:24-26) is given in Synagogues and in Churches even to our day, and in the Synagogues it is still given as it was more than a thousand years before the resurrected Jew Jesus gave it: with lifted hands.
In fact, another name for the Aaronic Benediction is "The Lifting up of Hands."
(Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ. Ch.XVII. A. Edersheim. Eerdmans pub.)
In Heb 13:8 we are told Jesus the Messiah is the same yesterday, today and forever. So, if He ever was a Jew He was resurrected a Jew, and He is one to this day.
He was born a Jew, He lived a Jew, He died a Jew, and He was resurrected a Jew. He is alive and Jewish now, and forevermore the same.
Sorry for the long post but it seemed to be needed.
Rusty.........as a believer I am perplexed as to why you would ask this question. You must know that God does exactly what He wants to do and He does not always ask us.
I will say however that the great Christian C.S. Lewis once said that WW! prepared the Land and WW2 prepared the people.
History shows us now that because of what happened in WW2 the Jews were allowed into a Land given to them by God in 1948.
The truth is is simply that no one knows. God has a plan and He is running that plan no matter what.
Some people focus on what Hitler did but somehow we forget about the 2 + million Jews that died in the wilderness.
We seem to have forgotten about the Spanish Inquision.
What about Nero's torture of the Jews.
Then there is the tragedy of 70 AD where 5 million more Jews were slain.
What about Stalin in Russia. We get excited about Hitler but the facts are that Stalin was even more of a mad man than was Hitler killing millions upon millions.(The estimate is 50)
In each case, God allowed evil men to exercise a certain amount of power for a short period of time.
Ultimately, we do not know the reasons for what God allows. His ways and thoughts are infinitely higher than ours
(Isa. 55:8-9).
Agreed!
Post #68
"@ Ryan: Are we arguing that Christ wasn't "of the Jews"? No not at all-God Chose the people-Hebrews-the Hebrews in turn were the people of the promise of the covenant. The Hebrews in turn established Judaism after Moses received the Law from the Lord.
Christ was born into and of the Jewish culture and tradition in fulfillment of the scriptures. But Christ battled the 'Jewish' establishment-not the people.
No one is arguing that the blood of Christ does not flow through the 'chosen' people-the Hebrews. But also for your consideration: Adam>>>>>to>>>>>>Noah is the root of ALL people including the Hebrews and therefore Christ.
The 'Jews' rejected Christ and hung Him on a tree-thus providing Salvation to the world-fulfilling the scripture.
Christ is the fulfillment of the scripture for all people--'as it is written'.
So what's the argument again?"
@ Major-I think it is a matter of comprehending individual perspectives. Posting on a forum degrades the intent and fluidity of the message. I don't think anyone is arguing that Christ was 'born of the Jews'/ Hebrew bloodline. I think the main argument comes from a 'religious' perspective; so one has to consider this question: was Christ "religious"?
My answer to this question would be this: NO-not in human standards and comprehension. Christ is the example of "pure" religion in worship to the Living God. Which we cannot comprehend as we are in a fallen world-human sin nature. So to say Christ was a practicing "Jew" would be false.
Does that make more sense?
My answer to this question would be this: NO-not in human standards and comprehension. Christ is the example of "pure" religion in worship to the Living God. Which we cannot comprehend as we are in a fallen world-human sin nature. So to say Christ was a practicing "Jew" would be false.
Does that make more sense?
In addition-to make Christ a "Jew"; then I guess us "Christians" are following the wrong 'religion'. Now wouldn't that be awkward....
I understand what you are saying but remember.......Christians are in reality Spiritual Jews.
I agree Glo but in the end we are all judged by what we do not by what others do to us or think of us.
IMO, the love we speak of comes from the fact Jesus was a Jew.
In modern secular Israel today what constitutes a Jew is highly contested. The following people are Jewish:
From the Arabic nation of Yemen.
And the most familiar to Westerners, the European or Ashkenazim Jew
