calvin..............is that YOU in in the avatar????
Auschwitz: God On Trial
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calvin..............is that YOU in in the avatar????
Glomung
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An interesting article that has some bearing on the OP
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel...ionisms-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine/5326140
an excerpt:
“Probably more surprising than anything else was not the silence of the world as Zionist ethnic cleansing was taking place in Palestine, but the silence of the Jews in Palestine. They knew what had happened to Jews in Nazi Europe, and some might even have seen it for themselves, yet they had no scruples in doing almost the same thing to the Palestinians.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel...ionisms-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine/5326140
an excerpt:
“Probably more surprising than anything else was not the silence of the world as Zionist ethnic cleansing was taking place in Palestine, but the silence of the Jews in Palestine. They knew what had happened to Jews in Nazi Europe, and some might even have seen it for themselves, yet they had no scruples in doing almost the same thing to the Palestinians.”
Rusty, hmmmm, a strange thread. Anyway. It took 40 years for God to bring His people from Egypt to the Promised Land way back in the day and that was WITH miracles. And now it's taking 65 years to bring them back WITHOUT miracles and is still an ongoing process. So what? The world they left back when Moses led them out was hostile. Today, most of the world is full of alluring temptations. So yes. Jews are like everyone else. Why leave the "good life" to live in a war zone surrounded by murderous Muslims?
It's a miracle Israel exists today at all. Just reading how a few Israeli tanks held off the Syrian army on the Golan during the Yom Kippor War was a miracle to me. How Israel even survived that war was a miracle.
The fact that the Jews moved their capital to it's rightful place, Jerusalem, from Tel Aviv points to religious influence beyond a purely "secular" Israel. Will you call Israel secular whenever the Temple is rebuilt?
I only want to be known as a CHRISTIAN. I want to be known as such whether I were friends with Muslims, Jews, Hindus or anyone else. Saying you are considered a Muslim with your Muslim friends and Jewish with your Jewish friends and then seem to be proud of that strikes me as chameleon like. Shouldn't they know you as a devout follower of Christ and nothing short of that?
The Bible is the Living Word of God. It is as alive today as it was when written. It is why you can look at a verse one day and then years later look at it again then see it in a way that speaks to your spirit differently than it did the time before. It is alive.
A prophecy can speak to a nation one way at the time it was given and still have relevence years and years later. Maybe not exactly to that particular situation but to one much like it.
I am a "Christian Zionist". I always was from the time I first read the Bible and always will be. It's THEIR land God gave it to them. Now He has put them in their land, taken them out, them put them back. That is between God and them.
As for me. I know my place. I am a co-heir. I am adopted. First the Jew THEN the gentile. I will seat myself at the last of the table. Better yet, I will eat the crumbs from the childrens table that fall to the floor. God will bless those who bless them and curse those who curse them.
America has, for the most part blessed Israel so ,in turn, America is blessed. Soon America will turn it's back on Israel and God's judgement will follow.
OK. Why did God allow the Jews to be persecuted? Ryan Lepko addressed that. The Jews choose to remain under the Law. So by the Law they are treated. With no Temple they have a very limited way in which to adhere to that Law. Soon there will be a Temple. Then I would think a great migration of Jews back to Israel.
Why did "christians" allow the massacre during WWII? Simple. These "christian" leaders wore robes, carried bibles and had crosses around their necks. That doesn't make them Christian. They were NAZIS. Any "christian" present where any of this occured was purely looking after their own skin. They will answer for it.
It's a miracle Israel exists today at all. Just reading how a few Israeli tanks held off the Syrian army on the Golan during the Yom Kippor War was a miracle to me. How Israel even survived that war was a miracle.
The fact that the Jews moved their capital to it's rightful place, Jerusalem, from Tel Aviv points to religious influence beyond a purely "secular" Israel. Will you call Israel secular whenever the Temple is rebuilt?
I only want to be known as a CHRISTIAN. I want to be known as such whether I were friends with Muslims, Jews, Hindus or anyone else. Saying you are considered a Muslim with your Muslim friends and Jewish with your Jewish friends and then seem to be proud of that strikes me as chameleon like. Shouldn't they know you as a devout follower of Christ and nothing short of that?
The Bible is the Living Word of God. It is as alive today as it was when written. It is why you can look at a verse one day and then years later look at it again then see it in a way that speaks to your spirit differently than it did the time before. It is alive.
A prophecy can speak to a nation one way at the time it was given and still have relevence years and years later. Maybe not exactly to that particular situation but to one much like it.
I am a "Christian Zionist". I always was from the time I first read the Bible and always will be. It's THEIR land God gave it to them. Now He has put them in their land, taken them out, them put them back. That is between God and them.
As for me. I know my place. I am a co-heir. I am adopted. First the Jew THEN the gentile. I will seat myself at the last of the table. Better yet, I will eat the crumbs from the childrens table that fall to the floor. God will bless those who bless them and curse those who curse them.
America has, for the most part blessed Israel so ,in turn, America is blessed. Soon America will turn it's back on Israel and God's judgement will follow.
OK. Why did God allow the Jews to be persecuted? Ryan Lepko addressed that. The Jews choose to remain under the Law. So by the Law they are treated. With no Temple they have a very limited way in which to adhere to that Law. Soon there will be a Temple. Then I would think a great migration of Jews back to Israel.
Why did "christians" allow the massacre during WWII? Simple. These "christian" leaders wore robes, carried bibles and had crosses around their necks. That doesn't make them Christian. They were NAZIS. Any "christian" present where any of this occured was purely looking after their own skin. They will answer for it.
For a Jew to be a jew he only needs a drop of jewish blood to be jewish i was told by his grandmother he is not anything else she grudgingly said to me
I am part Croatian, part Maori, German and the rest New Zealander or kiwi they say down here So i mention My son have the above with a bit of Jewish added to it. No no no she said it doesn't matter what other blood he has, he is JEWISH!
So are 'Hebrew' and 'Jew' completely synonymous?
Isn't "Hebrew" stemming from the bloodline of Abram/ Abraham (Patriarchs)? (Genesis 14:13)
Isn't "Jew"stemming from the practice of 'Judaism' set forth by Moses? (2 Kings 16:6)
Does "Hebrew" mean humans from Adam? So are we all "Hebrews"? Are we all "Jews" that believe in the Creator? Are "Jews" by default misinformed "Christians"? Is this all a bunch of silliness?
So does that mean all "Christians" are "Catholic" by default? (No offense Glomung...)
Isn't "Hebrew" stemming from the bloodline of Abram/ Abraham (Patriarchs)? (Genesis 14:13)
Isn't "Jew"stemming from the practice of 'Judaism' set forth by Moses? (2 Kings 16:6)
Does "Hebrew" mean humans from Adam? So are we all "Hebrews"? Are we all "Jews" that believe in the Creator? Are "Jews" by default misinformed "Christians"? Is this all a bunch of silliness?
So does that mean all "Christians" are "Catholic" by default? (No offense Glomung...)
Here's what I am discovering in all this:
All we are doing is throwing titles of status around-no matter how you slice it. So here is my proposal; there are only 2 types of people: believers & unbelievers.
So OT believers were "Jews" and the NT believers are "Christians". (in my opinion)
If someone can prove that bloodline strictly determines whether or not one can receive salvation-or- will believe in the Lord: please submit your DNA evidence.....
(Oh I think somewhere there is a scientist doing that already....)
Jews reject Jesus-Jesus rejects Jews...
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
WHOSOEVER:
Matthew 7:24, Matthew 10:32, Matthew 16:25, Matthew 21:41, Matthew 23:12, Mark 3:35, Mark 8:34, Luke 6:47, Luke 7:23, Luke 9:24, Luke 9:26, Luke 12:8, Luke 14:11, Luke 14:27, Luke 17:33, Luke 20:18, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 11:26
Your BLOOD father makes no difference...your SPIRITUAL Father does....
All we are doing is throwing titles of status around-no matter how you slice it. So here is my proposal; there are only 2 types of people: believers & unbelievers.
So OT believers were "Jews" and the NT believers are "Christians". (in my opinion)
If someone can prove that bloodline strictly determines whether or not one can receive salvation-or- will believe in the Lord: please submit your DNA evidence.....
(Oh I think somewhere there is a scientist doing that already....)
Jews reject Jesus-Jesus rejects Jews...
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
WHOSOEVER:
Matthew 7:24, Matthew 10:32, Matthew 16:25, Matthew 21:41, Matthew 23:12, Mark 3:35, Mark 8:34, Luke 6:47, Luke 7:23, Luke 9:24, Luke 9:26, Luke 12:8, Luke 14:11, Luke 14:27, Luke 17:33, Luke 20:18, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 11:26
Your BLOOD father makes no difference...your SPIRITUAL Father does....
Glomung
Account Closed
Oh come on-can't I have a little KJV word fun?
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Lamentation 5:1 Remember, O Lord, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2 Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens.
Deuteronomy 14:21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.
Well..I am guessing..pure speculation mind you...
Some of those 'lost sons of Noah' whom are presumably responsible for the surrounding populous in the 'promised land', Egypt (Afrika), Middle East/ Asia, moving onward towards Greece, Italy (Mediterranean), the rest of Europe and Asia, even the America's before the 'land was divided'.
But those Aussies and Kiwis I am pretty sure are just plain straight "aliens"!
(Penguins too!)
My guess is this: with all the international 'flood stories'; the peoples of the Earth descending from Noah were very well aware of the Creator. So they had no excuse to deny Him and forget Him over time. So as with the 'Jews' after Christ, as with the peoples in pre- Israel, as with the Ramses Egyptians, as with the fallen away Israelites: The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
"Trust and obey-for there's no other way..." else you may lose your inheritance in your pride and pomp living. The slaves become the masters...boy could the USA really learn from Biblical History!
'And the meek shall inherit the Earth'
Some of those 'lost sons of Noah' whom are presumably responsible for the surrounding populous in the 'promised land', Egypt (Afrika), Middle East/ Asia, moving onward towards Greece, Italy (Mediterranean), the rest of Europe and Asia, even the America's before the 'land was divided'.
But those Aussies and Kiwis I am pretty sure are just plain straight "aliens"!
(Penguins too!)My guess is this: with all the international 'flood stories'; the peoples of the Earth descending from Noah were very well aware of the Creator. So they had no excuse to deny Him and forget Him over time. So as with the 'Jews' after Christ, as with the peoples in pre- Israel, as with the Ramses Egyptians, as with the fallen away Israelites: The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
"Trust and obey-for there's no other way..." else you may lose your inheritance in your pride and pomp living. The slaves become the masters...boy could the USA really learn from Biblical History!
'And the meek shall inherit the Earth'
I was told once i belong to Messianic Judaism same beliefs, jews who believe in Jesus the Son ,Trinity, but i am not jewish or am i...
I was told once i belong to Messianic Judaism same beliefs, jews who believe in Jesus the Son ,Trinity, but i am not jewish or am i...
http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=n_messianic_movement_messianic_judaism
Well I think as I have previously stated-we are dealing with a 'status & title' issue. I think it was on another post I commented on the titles I would prefer:
'Prince of Heaven'
'Ambassador to Christ'
'Child of God'
But if "Christian" identifies me as a true believer in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for me-I'll take it...
Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16
It's about HIM-not our man-made religion...
So I guess I find it fitting that 'Christ' is the best part of "Christian"!Right; I agree with that statement in a literal sense-but are we not also speaking of future acceptance of outsiders after the Law was given? No argument from me....
Um, this an old thread but just picking up on it as searching for something.
I thought jewish ppl were those who were circumcised.
But then...it seems other ppl are circumcised too who arent Jews.
I might say only those who are orthodox are Jews because they actually make an effort to live by all the comandments in the OT.
However, since there no more sacrifices at the temple, is that so? They cant even worship at the temple. Cos there is none.
Also theres jewish ppl living outside the holy land. How do we know they jews? Is it a self proclaimed identity? They dont seem more holy or chosen than anyone else. Is it just lineage that makes them jews? Is it bloodlines? Is it they speak Hebrew?
Or is it cos they keep kosher and the sabbath and go to synagogues? If so thats a cultural religious thing that even converts can do, and not anything to do with blood at all. They may keep all the feasts but theres nothing that would stop us christians from celebrating them.
So I dont understand the criteria for jews returning to the holy land which is now israel\palestine.
Then theres jewish people who also love Jesus, so..it kinda gets confusing.
I thought jewish ppl were those who were circumcised.
But then...it seems other ppl are circumcised too who arent Jews.
I might say only those who are orthodox are Jews because they actually make an effort to live by all the comandments in the OT.
However, since there no more sacrifices at the temple, is that so? They cant even worship at the temple. Cos there is none.
Also theres jewish ppl living outside the holy land. How do we know they jews? Is it a self proclaimed identity? They dont seem more holy or chosen than anyone else. Is it just lineage that makes them jews? Is it bloodlines? Is it they speak Hebrew?
Or is it cos they keep kosher and the sabbath and go to synagogues? If so thats a cultural religious thing that even converts can do, and not anything to do with blood at all. They may keep all the feasts but theres nothing that would stop us christians from celebrating them.
So I dont understand the criteria for jews returning to the holy land which is now israel\palestine.
Then theres jewish people who also love Jesus, so..it kinda gets confusing.
Jews are the "Seed of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob"... Read about it in Genesis.... Nobody except the "Seed of Abraham, Issac and Jacob" can claim to be an ethnic Jew. On top of this - there are regulations in the bible pertaining to who would become "Banished from the assembly" for doing bad things like idolatry, etc... Do that stuff and biblically, you "Loose your Jew card" so to speak... As we have experienced, though - God is faithful even when we are not....
Male Circumcision... A covenant God gave to Abraham in genesis.... Does this make you a Jew - nope... No more than eating with chopsticks makes you Chinese...
One key thing... Your statement "They don't see more holy or righteous or......" - YEP... That's true.. But God never SAID they would either... God declared in Leviticus 7 that he loved them because he loved them.... God set HIS love upon Them - not the other way around.... And we see the evidence of this throughout history... That NO MATTER how hard the Jews have TRIED to assimilate into the cultures in the places where they lived and to hide from God - it never worked.... They were ALWAYS a Separate and peculiar people - even against their own wills... and still are..... We forget that God's name is on that promise - and that should teach us something very comforting about the nature of God...
Male Circumcision... A covenant God gave to Abraham in genesis.... Does this make you a Jew - nope... No more than eating with chopsticks makes you Chinese...
One key thing... Your statement "They don't see more holy or righteous or......" - YEP... That's true.. But God never SAID they would either... God declared in Leviticus 7 that he loved them because he loved them.... God set HIS love upon Them - not the other way around.... And we see the evidence of this throughout history... That NO MATTER how hard the Jews have TRIED to assimilate into the cultures in the places where they lived and to hide from God - it never worked.... They were ALWAYS a Separate and peculiar people - even against their own wills... and still are..... We forget that God's name is on that promise - and that should teach us something very comforting about the nature of God...
You know John, God called the Israelites a whore so many times, I did not bother to count.
The reason why is because they went and worshiped other gods, mostly those nations around them and those opposing and oppressing them.
And yet, every time afterwards when they turned away from that false worship, He took them back and delivered them.
Now what is that!
I can only say thanks to Him - because He is my God also, YHVH, God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, but also Arno.
Yes its amazing how patient and merciful God is.
So you reckon its lineage, i.e. at least one parent Jewish? How would you know? I mean what are the characteristics?
Ie. I know Im chinese i look chinese my parents are, i dont speak the language, but I eat the food! But I dont live in china, was never born there and never been there...
Is it passed down through the male or female line? Or both? If your mum was one culture and your dad was another, what do you consider yourself as?
Hybrid?
So you reckon its lineage, i.e. at least one parent Jewish? How would you know? I mean what are the characteristics?
Ie. I know Im chinese i look chinese my parents are, i dont speak the language, but I eat the food! But I dont live in china, was never born there and never been there...
Is it passed down through the male or female line? Or both? If your mum was one culture and your dad was another, what do you consider yourself as?
Hybrid?