Automatic Promises and life is fixed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fish Catcher Jim

Inactive
Feb 7, 2015
10,793
13,201
113
All you are doing is extending the thread we were talking on about whether or not trials/tesing comes from God or not which was "meaningless trials".

That is no problem for me however the comments made will still be in effect which have already been stated.

I believe that it is YOURposition that trials and testing do not come from God neither does He aloow them.

But as I stated already, that is not what the Bible says.
We can do more but here are a couple of verse that YOU will need to address.

Jeremiah 17:10......
"I, the Lord, SEARCH (EXAMINE) the HEART, I TEST the MIND, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his DEEDS."

Job 23:10............
"But HE (God) knows the way I take; when HE has TRIED ME [TESTED], I shall come forth as GOLD."

Since the words are clearly there that God does indeed "TEST" us, how will you explain away their existance Jim????
Major first of all lets clear the air...............
I have not ever said God does not allow them.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

Inactive
Feb 7, 2015
10,793
13,201
113
Bible verse please regarding "Intention" ... the Bible speaks the Truth, we all agree on it, thus it will help to edify one another if Bible verse will be cited.
Aha chil out man.............Intentions - dont do you a hill as beans good. Oh I intended on forgiving them but hey you know how it is. You need a verse for that?
 

aha

Nov 18, 2011
1,439
393
83
Aha chil out man.............Intentions - dont do you a hill as beans good. Oh I intended on forgiving them but hey you know how it is. You need a verse for that?
"Intentions leave you fallen short."

Actually I agree…. after I chill out : ) …..
......after am reminded of some Bible verse that seems to say intentions is not enough/can fell short…

In the same manner that Logical truth, Human wisdom is not enough…
Precisely we need to stick to the Vine, the Truth… that is: Bible verse to support….

Although, if phrase of a wisdom/Truth will be said like “Intentions leave you fallen short

there are those of us that may not be quick to get it or connect it with a Bible verse, thus, citing one will make it easier for us.....
 

Cturtle

Inactive
Feb 11, 2015
8,364
12,157
113
Usa
"Intentions leave you fallen short."

Actually I agree…. after I chill out : ) …..
......after am reminded of some Bible verse that seems to say intentions is not enough/can fell short…

In the same manner that Logical truth, Human wisdom is not enough…
Precisely we need to stick to the Vine, the Truth… that is: Bible verse to support….

Although, if phrase of a wisdom/Truth will be said like “Intentions leave you fallen short

there are those of us that may not be quick to get it or connect it with a Bible verse, thus, citing one will make it easier for us.....
I am curious as to which verse that God gave you. Are you in a position of sharing it?
 
Feb 2, 2014
6,888
5,853
113
American
www.abdicate.net
Test, Trials, Disciplining, Tempt…. they are different words…

TEMPT is a negative word: it’s intention/context is DESTRUCTIVE
DISCPLINE is a positive word: it’s intention/context is CONSTRUCTIVE​

Language is fluid, it can be shaped how one use it...
Test and Trials, depending on how it is used: can be made into context of TEMPT
Test and Trials, depending on how it is used: can be made into context of DISCIPLINE….​

I think we apply Principle of Love: "believes all things, hopes all things"
That is: we ought to think that a Christian brother or sister is of good intention, a loving intention when the word is used….

In Logic, Philosophy, there is that concept of Principle of Charity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Principle of charity
We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimises agreement.
I'll stick to the word of God and an original dictionary...
 

aha

Nov 18, 2011
1,439
393
83
I am curious as to which verse that God gave you. Are you in a position of sharing it?
My basis: John 15:5
Christ denying Humanist Organization has done a lot to alleviate the suffering in this world…. that is: they have good intentions, but I have to agree that they must be missing how to address the problem, that is, nothing has been achieved...

John 15:5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Note: maybe the word “reminded” in my post above may brought that impression : )
Am yet comfortable that the things I say is based on my own understanding, rather that Divine guidance, the reason for my disclaimer below...
 

aha

Nov 18, 2011
1,439
393
83
I'll stick to the word of God and an original dictionary...
I sincerely believe you do……so do I, to try to stick to the Vine…. as well as consider that man dictionaries provide not only one, but multiples definition.....

Question:
You agree that the word TEMPT is destructive for one’s growth?
You agree that the word DISCIPLINE is constructive for one’s growth?
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,199
4,728
113
Florida
Major first of all lets clear the air...............
I have not ever said God does not allow them.
My apologies but your comment in "meaningless trials" #81 was and it seemed to me you were saying that God allowed trials........
"Exactly - God will NOT ALLOW a trial or testing to be too big for us to handle when we walk in His ways."
 
Feb 2, 2014
6,888
5,853
113
American
www.abdicate.net
I sincerely believe you do……so do I, to try to stick to the Vine…. as well as consider that man dictionaries provide not only one, but multiples definition.....

Question:
You agree that the word TEMPT is destructive for one’s growth?
You agree that the word DISCIPLINE is constructive for one’s growth?
I believe the Greek word:
- Original: πειράζω
- Transliteration: Peirazo
- Phonetic: pi-rad'-zo
- Definition:
1. to try whether a thing can be done
a. to attempt, endeavour
2. to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
a. in a good sense
b. in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
c. to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin

James 1:13 (KJV)
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:​

God doesn't do it and that's what my point is. It doesn't matter what I believe it means, it only matters what the word of God says. Dictionaries define words, not societal usage, even though society hijacks a word and completely changes its meaning. Dictionaries are vital.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cturtle

Fish Catcher Jim

Inactive
Feb 7, 2015
10,793
13,201
113
My apologies but your comment in "meaningless trials" #81 was and it seemed to me you were saying that God allowed trials........
"Exactly - God will NOT ALLOW a trial or testing to be too big for us to handle when we walk in His ways."
Major no worries ! ;)
It is some folks in here that make a habbit out of adding and taking away what is said and it gets old after awhile. Its gets old telling this over and over and I just wanted to keep it from getting that way with you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Major

aha

Nov 18, 2011
1,439
393
83
- Definition:
a. in a good sense
b. in a bad sense...
Precisely what I meant… dictionaries can give multiple meaning… can be a good sense or a bad sense.....

The HEARER or a MESSENGER or a WITNESS may relay it FAITHFULLY or may in error based on their own understanding of the word, I think that is why dictionaries tries to present all those definitions....

The objective is to discern the INTENT of the SPEAKER/WRITER, rather than the legal meaning of the word….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law
The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the "letter") of the law, but not necessarily the intent of those who wrote the law. Conversely, when one obeys the spirit of the law but not the letter, one is doing what the authors of the law intended, though not necessarily adhering to the literal wording
God doesn't do it and that's what my point is.
Noted the point, and I agree : )
 
Last edited:

Cturtle

Inactive
Feb 11, 2015
8,364
12,157
113
Usa
My basis: John 15:5
Christ denying Humanist Organization has done a lot to alleviate the suffering in this world…. that is: they have good intentions, but I have to agree that they must be missing how to address the problem, that is, nothing has been achieved...

John 15:5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Note: maybe the word “reminded” in my post above may brought that impression : )
Am yet comfortable that the things I say is based on my own understanding, rather that Divine guidance, the reason for my disclaimer below...
I agree with you, When a society or a country or an individual tries to do things apart from God's ways.....it always fails. They have good intentions But without God, nothing succeeds. Our system is of the Babylonian system. And is the reason why the ideas have failed.

Poverty is due to man's desires and trying to do things without God. If we would grab ahold of all of God's ways...then there would be no poverty. Just like sickness. If we would do things the way God desires them done there would be none. But because of sin and peoples worldly (death, doubt and unbelief) words, and believers who choose to trust in the worlds ways rather than stand against an attack from the enemy using the Word of God and, trusting fully in God and His anointing, the world cannot get rid of it. But those who abide in the vine and follow all of God's ways walk in divine health and no lack :)

Thank you for clarifying and sharing your thoughts and scripture. :) Blessings

P.S. I like your disclaimer. I use the Holy Spirit to give me discernment, understanding, and the words to speak so that its spoken how He wants it said.
 
Last edited:

Fish Catcher Jim

Inactive
Feb 7, 2015
10,793
13,201
113
So is anyone really interested in me continuing with the promises? Have we grasped what faith really is? Or do I go on with my moving chores? (Sorry Jim, you don't count, we already accept what the word says. :) )
Abdicate,
Yea we have but have they ? Faith is not something you can say ok here is 2 long post and now you know what faith is. Faith is not something you automatically master just because you are born again. It takes discipline and lots of His word in you and operating according to His very word to DEVELOPE God Pleasing Faith.

There is no such thing as I have Faith in God and it is the correct level of faith to see me through life. One decieves them selves when they think this way. Faith must be built on constantly. There is no place to say well I got faith it is all good.

If you are going to walk with the type of Faith that is pleasing to God then you are going to have to turn your boat around and paddle up stream while every one else is drifting along with the currents of this world and many Christians are right there amongst them sadly enough.

Faith is a life style. Faith must be constantly and consistently the same day in and day out no matter what you are going through. There is no up one day and down the other. There is no place for those who have to say hey come on now - let me go get some more faith so I can whip this situation out of my life. Meaning - tragedy hits - you either are Living by faith and have to do nothing extra to get your faith strong enough - or - you panic to some degree and try and speak bits and pieces of scripturt and hope God hears you and does something.

When you are living by the Faith that please God then you are walking in the Joy of the Lord constantly no matter what happens. You have learned to bridle the tongue. You have learned to stand on His word and make His word first and last place in everything. Yes it is hard - but more then worth it. It is a 24-7-365 day event in both working and perfecting and Living and operating in.

Am I there ? Lets say I am a whole lot more "efficient" in this area then I was this time last year and i will be more efficient in Living By Faith that pleases God this time next year if He prevails...........

Now does any one want to talk about Faith that Pleases God ?
Thank You Brother Abdicate for all that you do and bring to the table.
God Bless You and I love you bro
Jim
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,199
4,728
113
Florida
Abdicate,
Yea we have but have they ? Faith is not something you can say ok here is 2 long post and now you know what faith is. Faith is not something you automatically master just because you are born again. It takes discipline and lots of His word in you and operating according to His very word to DEVELOPE God Pleasing Faith.

There is no such thing as I have Faith in God and it is the correct level of faith to see me through life. One decieves them selves when they think this way. Faith must be built on constantly. There is no place to say well I got faith it is all good.

If you are going to walk with the type of Faith that is pleasing to God then you are going to have to turn your boat around and paddle up stream while every one else is drifting along with the currents of this world and many Christians are right there amongst them sadly enough.

Faith is a life style. Faith must be constantly and consistently the same day in and day out no matter what you are going through. There is no up one day and down the other. There is no place for those who have to say hey come on now - let me go get some more faith so I can whip this situation out of my life. Meaning - tragedy hits - you either are Living by faith and have to do nothing extra to get your faith strong enough - or - you panic to some degree and try and speak bits and pieces of scripturt and hope God hears you and does something.

When you are living by the Faith that please God then you are walking in the Joy of the Lord constantly no matter what happens. You have learned to bridle the tongue. You have learned to stand on His word and make His word first and last place in everything. Yes it is hard - but more then worth it. It is a 24-7-365 day event in both working and perfecting and Living and operating in.

Am I there ? Lets say I am a whole lot more "efficient" in this area then I was this time last year and i will be more efficient in Living By Faith that pleases God this time next year if He prevails...........

Now does any one want to talk about Faith that Pleases God ?
Thank You Brother Abdicate for all that you do and bring to the table.
God Bless You and I love you bro
Jim
Sure thing.

Hebrews 11:6.........
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that he is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

We can do almost anything in this world if we set our mind to it, but if we do anything without faith we cannot please God.

We can get married, we can buy a home, we can if talented enough make a million dollars.

The first kind of faith we need to have to please God is saving faith. The Apostle Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9............
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast."

When we receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord we believe God the Father's promise to us in 1 John 5:11-12.............
"And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."

It is a decision of the will to have faith in God's promise and witness to us that to have His Son is to have eternal life.

Heb. 11:3.......
"By faith we understand that the ages were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."

The first kind of faith that pleases God is to believe what He has revealed to us in His word about His creating the Heavens and the Earth.

The second kind of faith that the writer of Hebrews tells us that pleases God is when we approach Him the way He wants us to, not the way we want to. Hebrews 11:4 is clear...........
"By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks."

Why was Abel declared righteous by God? Because Abel approached God according to His instructions. His instructions where that they were to approach Him through the sacrificing of a lamb in the Old Testament. Now the only way we can approach God is through his Son Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." Jesus now is our only way to God and the only way we can approach God and God be pleased with our faith.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ
Feb 2, 2014
6,888
5,853
113
American
www.abdicate.net
Ok, so faith is not about the future, it's about what's already been accomplished by the Lord Jesus on the cross. So many wait on God to "do" something because of our prayer life and we say so in "faith" but in reality, that's not the meaning of faith. Therefore we live in a delusion and then what we prayed for doesn't come about. Faith is about trusting God and what He's already done - which is everything. In the third law of Newton it states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is the very thing that God made in Gen 1:1, polarity, plus and minus, light and darkness. When you push at the good the negative reacts and vice versa. This is the same with faith. When you focus on your problem, say health, and you pray "for" healing, you're actually pulling the declared sickness to you by giving it your focus. Thoughts, emotions and feelings must be harmonious in order to see the unseen. So you don't pray "for" healing, you declare healing. In fact that's the word letter-meanings for the word heal (רפה) - man, speaks, revelation. When you see yourself whole, you feel yourself whole, you speak yourself whole, that's what faith is. It's seeing the unseen in persuaded belief it's true.

Intuition is that message from your heart that you'll get through this with certainty by God's help. You don't understand it, but you believe it. The very fabric of our being, in every cell, we are connected to God by the breath He blew into Adam! And the "glue" that holds all the atoms in the universe together is Jesus, Col 1:17!

Hebrews 11:1 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].
Faith is going to take these invisible things and make them manifest in the physical. Faith is the substructure for these invisible things to become visible. Faith is going to become the absolute proof that the invisible things are going to become visible. For instance, when you want to buy property from someone, you can't just walk in and take it over. You have to have the right to do that. So you go through the buying process and at the courthouse you get the title deed to the property. Now, you have the right to go in and do as you please. This title deed is this Greek word for substance. Faith starts out as an intuition that something will happen to make this event turn out better.

Once faith becomes real, you get the proof of ownership.

As soon as faith becomes alive in you, there's no doubt what the outcome will be. Your faith cannot make it work from someone else. They must use their own faith. Your faith can be a catalyst for their faith, but even Jesus repeatedly said "Your faith has made you whole."

Faith is the proof of ownership for that which has been done of an accomplished fact. Faith is NOT about the future. Faith is about an accomplished fact.

Matthew 18:18 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven.​

What God has already declared isn't going to happen automatically (His will is that none perish - but people still go to hell.) What is lawful in heaven must be declared so on earth. What is unlawful in heaven must be declared so on earth.

Galatians 3:13 (KJV)
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:​

Our wrong thinking is: if this happened - Jesus being made a curse for us - then it should be done automatically. And if we see it doesn't happen automatically, then we think "oh, there's sin in my life", but we all have sin in our lives and always will. We'll always be struggling against the fallen nature, period.

Miracles are not for the deserving. Miracles are for the believing.

We have to live worthy of our calling. We're qualified because we're in Jesus not because we've done something to be deserving. Otherwise it won't be grace but works. The question isn't "what's God going to do" but "what am I going to do". We need to declare that the sickness has no right to be there according to Isaiah 53:5 and 1 Peter 2:14:

Isaiah 53:5 (KJV)
But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.​

1 Peter 2:24 (KJV)
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.​

Jesus never said poverty or sicken wouldn't come, just that it didn't have a right to be there, Mat 18:18. The question then is, since these are accomplished facts, am I going to permit it!? Am I going to allow this curse to be active in my life and I'm going to be passive about it? Or am I going to do something? Faith is the title deed to that which is already accomplished. If you have the absolute ownership of this, then if I'm fully persuaded, if I'm immovable, then the invisible things are becoming visible - not "real" - visible. It's already real. We just have to have faith on the already accomplished deed to allow it to become manifest in the physical! I don't need a healing to become real, I need it to become tangible. Faith is being immovable about the things that have already been accomplished. The title deed on the property in question: health, finances, etc. We hope for health, we hope for better finances, we hope for ____. Faith takes what's already accomplished by the promises of God for us, and allows those unseen hoped-for things to become tangible in our lives.

Hope without faith is like a sailboat without wind. Hope is the expectation of good, the joyful and confident expectation of something. Once I take ownership of a promise, then the hope is no longer a torment - the candy behind the glass, taunting you, Pro 13:12. Once I take ownership of the title deed (faith), then with joy and confidence I take possession of the thing hoped for! Now you can understand Romans 5:1-3

Romans 5:1-3 (KJV)
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;​

Renew our minds of the nine virtues of the Spirit.

2 Peter 1:5-8 (KJV)
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

With hope, from these verses, we'll begin to look for, with great confidence, the good things of God in our lives with faith! With this hope we will show our faith, our beliefs to those who question.

1 Peter 3:15 (KJV)
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:​

Living these nine virtues build up the hope, and your life will reflect the positive love of God in all situation. Now you have that peace that passes all understanding because you have hope. Joyful expectation of good from the Father Who gives good and perfect gifts, James 1:17!

Faith is the being absolute sure, fully persuaded, immovable, about these things that have already been accomplished that you are confidently expecting!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.