I always assumed Mathias was there from the beginning -- a hanger on, so to speak -- so he probably did.
Being Protestant
- Thread starter In Awe of Him
- Start date
I came from the Catholic Church and now attend a Baptist church. Never have I labelled myself Protestant. I am a follower of Jesus. The term is outdated and infers Protestant as opposed to Catholic as most of you have stated.
Why stop with the Catholic church? Why not include Mormons Jehovah Witnesses etc etc ?
I am in no way decrying the term 'Protestant' at the time of the reformation, but to label myself as one now in
to be honest mankind loves labels. in the Bible there is only 2 kind of people Lost or saved .. you either are or are not .i will share this again a old time preacher man once said your name tag will either fall off going up. or burn off going down. my screen name says it all forgiven
Hi vision1 ... I know I said I was finished with my comments.. .but since I am the one who started the thread in the first place...
allow me to say WELCOME back.
I think in one of my first posts... I chose to declare that I call myself protestant for the sole purpose of REMOVING myself from the Catholic Church. In reality... I do not consider myself or dwell upon the title. I too am a follower of JESUS. I don't think in labels... I use them when talking to others for the sake of clarification.
Easy answer my friend.
Mormons and JW'S are NOT Christian denominations so they are not included in my thinking and comments.
You are correct in that the word "Protestant" simply is a way to distinguish/separate itself from the false teachings of the Catholic church.
Me too. The only thing we know for certain is that he had been a follower of Jesus from the beginning, witnessed Jesus’ ministry, saw His resurrection, and was present with the other believers following Jesus’ ascension.
No sister I have not had any bad experiences with churches. I did however as part of the Florida Baptist Convention's Committee on cults and Practices have the opportunity to a lot of investigative work into what has happened to the church.Edit.... I should have waited till morning to reply to this... as I am very tired after my work day...
Major.... sorry for any confusion. I copied and pasted your words so that I could simply reply underneath some of your comments.... Your words are normal font and mine are bold. Love you my brother... my love offering went out in the post this morning.
I certainly have NO desire or need to challenge anyone's style of worship. However there are some questions that need to be asked.....
1. Is it possible that the contemporary praise and worship experience is used to manipulate the consciousness of those involve?
Possibly... but then that is NOT true Worship and that church is NOT experiencing PRAISE and ADORATION to GOD. TRUE WORSHIP is COMPLETE PRAISE and ADORATION to GOD... It is NOT supplication... it is NOT PRAYER... it is the ACT of giving complete GLORY to GOD.
2. Is the contemporary praise style using music to generate an emotional response in the church crowd?
Music has words... again... I do not understand your response of "generating emotional response to the church crowd.
Corporate Worship is ORDERLY... it gives the participant space to either lift their hands or kneel... some might sway to and fro...
( I don't really peek at what others are doing ).... but it is NOT what is being lumped as the PENTECOSTAL experience ( for lack of a better term ). There is no falling over... no shouting.... no BARKING like a dog... people are NOT falling over.... or shouting in tongues.
THAT is NOT WORSHIP.
3. Does heavy emotional moments through contemporary music event seem to lead to asking for more giving?
GOOD GRIEF... Major... you must have had some bad experiences.
All I am pointing is that when a person sings contemporary praise worship songs for 25–45 minutes during the “praise and worship” portion of a service, there is a certain amount of dopamine is released creating a mild sensation of euphoria.
I've done it for 1.5 hours... HAHA... and I could not get enough. It has nothing to do with me... or how I am FEELING... it has EVERYTHING to do with PRAISING GOD. NOT asking for a THING... not asking for healing... not asking for a miracle... NOTHING.... simply going to the THRONE ROOM with ADORATION for GOD ALMIGHTY.
Now, before rejecting all of this out of hand, I would like to consider that Contemporary Praise and Worship has in fact produced
four features which distinguish it from all that went before it during 1,900 years of church history, namely:....................................
ONLY 4??????? grinning at you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. New Actions:.................... singing in tongues, dancing in the spirit, clapping and hand waving.
2. New Appointments: ..........‘worship leaders’, ‘worship teams’, ‘worship bands’ and ‘worship pastors’.
3. New Arrangements:........ choruses containing a different style of composition and content than that known to previous generations.
4. New Accompaniments.... a strong emphasis on music of all types including rock, jazz, pop, rap.
I don't know what to say about the offence of 4 new features.
Worship leaders, worship teams are people within the church that have a musical gift... The teams are built so that the SAME person does not have to lead Worship every single Sunday. There is no such thing as a Worship pastor.
Are we not called to share our talents with the body? I have nothing against people singing from hymnals ... but to me ... that is simply singing a hymn.... and is separate from Worship. That is my belief.
There is no sin in listening to someone who can play the keyboard or guitar or violin.. or harp... and actually sound good. People pay money to go to symphonies at theatres.... and that is NOT a bad thing.
Anywhoo.... those are my little opinions... and I don't have any problem with those who like old-style church services.... but TRUE WORSHIP is something that is absolutely WONDERFUL.
I can't wait to meet King David and WORSHIP with HIM.
Part of that was to understand what "Contemporary Praise and Worship" music did to change to worship experience in SBC churches.
The simple answer is that SBC churches adopted the Charismatic Pentecostal style of praise and worship so as to "compete" with the emotional experiences generated by the Pentecostal style.
It appears that I have not been clear in my comments, so allow me now to say that I have nothing against concerts, including Christian concerts. And I think it’s good for musicians to help lead local congregations in singing songs of praise to God.
I do have a big problem, however, with treating local church worship like it’s a concert. The house band plays high beat rythmatic background, the stage lights are up. the people are standing and the musicians on the stage are amplified so loudly they almost completely drown out the congregation. My point is that The focus no longer is on the congregation’s singing together, but on the musicians’ performance and how we as people in the audience "FEEL"!
THAT is NOT worship of God but is nothing more than a performance.
You said.......
"There is no sin in listening to someone who can play the keyboard or guitar or violin.. or harp... and actually sound good. People pay money to go to symphonies at theatres.... and that is NOT a bad thing. "
Absolutely true and I did not suggest anything different.
After all these posts about the negative opinions on Worship... I still fail to understand how this is even an issue.
I truly have no idea who decided that we must APPROACH GOD in a certain way.... and that the old hymns are better
than the new. WHEN was the cut off date?
The only way to approach GOD ALMIGHTY Is with absolute AWE and REVERENCE.
I guess these last 20 years... I simply grew with contemporary music. I remember when I first became a Christian in 2000.... my city had a Christian book store....and I bought so many cd's of contemporary artists. Michael W Smith..... Third Day... Rebecca St. James... but that is not WORSHIP... that is CHRISTIAN MUSIC. To my knowledge... Worship can either be at church ( usually before the sermon at church ) OR during a special Worship night which is sometimes held outside or... in a church. Just like there are Sunday school teachers... there are Worship teams. Very simple. If there is BAD TEACHING going on in the church... that is a totally separate problem... that is NOT Worship.
Worship is NOT the sermon given by the pastor. It is the ADORATION portion of the service.
I have never heard it called Charismatic/Pentecostal style praise and worship. I am neither of those things.
ANYWAYS... I am sad that this thread went in this direction.... I apologize... that was certainly not my intention to cause strife within the forums. That is NOT what I am about.
God bless you all.
I truly have no idea who decided that we must APPROACH GOD in a certain way.... and that the old hymns are better
than the new. WHEN was the cut off date?
The only way to approach GOD ALMIGHTY Is with absolute AWE and REVERENCE.
I guess these last 20 years... I simply grew with contemporary music. I remember when I first became a Christian in 2000.... my city had a Christian book store....and I bought so many cd's of contemporary artists. Michael W Smith..... Third Day... Rebecca St. James... but that is not WORSHIP... that is CHRISTIAN MUSIC. To my knowledge... Worship can either be at church ( usually before the sermon at church ) OR during a special Worship night which is sometimes held outside or... in a church. Just like there are Sunday school teachers... there are Worship teams. Very simple. If there is BAD TEACHING going on in the church... that is a totally separate problem... that is NOT Worship.
Worship is NOT the sermon given by the pastor. It is the ADORATION portion of the service.
I have never heard it called Charismatic/Pentecostal style praise and worship. I am neither of those things.
ANYWAYS... I am sad that this thread went in this direction.... I apologize... that was certainly not my intention to cause strife within the forums. That is NOT what I am about.
God bless you all.
Was he numbered among those who were around Jesus during His ministry?
Goes towards the so called Seeker Church mindset, as we have to appeal to them with out Gyms, pools, concerts, buildings, everything but Jesus and the Gospel, because do not wish to offend them or make them feel bad
And Florida is where that dude that promoted holy laughter hung up, eh? Bonke or something?
Many people throughout time have set themselves up as proxies between us and God as a means to gain power for themselves.
I agree that old hymns were contemporary at one point in history. I don't have an issue with contemporary music... I just hope that people are discerning that a song can stir emotions and just because a song makes you feel good or brings you to reflective tears doesnt mean that the Holy Spirit is stirring about.
You unlocked a core memory! I was 14 in 2000 and I remember the days of the Family Christian Store... books, CDs, DVDs, and greeting card, and Bible's for every occasion! I dearly miss it.
Funny story, one of my friends won a Rebecca St James CD at a youth group event and she hated the music and I didn't attend this particular event but she handed to me at church on Sunday... I didn't like the songs at first but they grew on me.
I really need to be done here... but that is the whole point.... WORSHIP is NOT about us... .It has nothing to do with us or our FEELINGS... it is about bringing your heart before the Lord... and paying him homage... giving Him what is due... which is total ADORATION... and PRAISE.
There are a plethora of DUMPINGS of definitions and people throwing BAD CHURCHES... BAD DOCTRINE.... and lumping it into the camp of WORSHIP.
I can't sing.... I don't sing... so... if I was standing in a church... I would not even pick up the hymnal... because I can't sing... so I would just be standing there.... and listening to everyone sing.
It's neither here nor there... but I have discovered too late that this SEEMS to be an ISSUE... so my bad.
I don't have an issue with my Worship... I am right with GOD... and I believe that when I approach HIM with the desire to simply Thank Him... Praise Him.. ADORE HIM... I am in WORSHIP. I don't need anyone to approve of my intimate time with FATHER GOD.
Honestly... you guys have fun.... but I am OUT.
Good morning, Major and In Awe of Him;
As Major alluded and I'll paraphrase, I'm not going to sugar these posts (nor the membership.)
In Awe of Him, you made it clear several times you don't attend Church, you may visit a Church from time to time, instead, Christian Forum Site is your Church. Noone has ever criticized you for that. I know of one member who was constructive in response to you and I understood their point. Regardless, between you and the Lord, this site is your Church. Let it be.
If anyone disrespects you and compromises the forum rules, the moderators will act on it.
You confess you fail to understand what we discussed is even an issue. No need to apologize, sister. I encourage you to vent your respective feelings, (we understand you!) and then seek God's help for you to learn.
I encourage all of us as we read, please listen to what we're reading.
God is still helping me learn each day because there are so many things about the Bible and Church that just don't make sense to me. I'm still a growing disciple and I choose God. I will stay the course with Him.
Truth be told, the members posting are long time Church goers, attending consistently week after week, and have gained the wisdom and discernment to know worship is only by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. This is the work of God. His Word encourages us to gather for Worship in Hebrews 10:24-25.
Hebrews 10:24-25, 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. - NKJV
I personally witness the assembly of worship week in and week out. My Church family experiences the joy of corporate worship. I can feel the Holy Spirit fill the place from the opening greeting, to prayer, praise and worship, the Lord's message and benediction.
One a personal note, my first ministry in Church was the music ministry in 1974. During those years I attended many praise / worship workshops, retreats, conferences all pertaining to the music ministry and it's purposes.
I've heard all the countless pros and cons of Praise and Worship in the order of service. As I reiterated in my previous post, there is a distinction between emotionalism in a Praise and Worship service, and the prompting of the Holy Spirit during a Praise and Worship service (which will include a level of emotionalism.)
God bless you, In Awe of Him.
Bob
Good morning, Cocoa;
Well said!
You mentioned the year 2000. We recorded a CD that year and in December debuted in a Church concert. If we thought recording a Christian CD would've been cool would have been for the wrong reasons.
It took 8 months of prayer and recording. The CD reached countries, the US and Canada. Every nickel of the proceeds went to those around the world in need. God truly blessed this project and in 2020 during COVID I received an email from a ministry that we helped in 2001.
At the Christian book store the CDs were on consignment for awhile.
God bless you, sister.
Bob
If I have come across as "being cross".... I am NOT... I am simply taken aback that what started as a loose topic of WHY I am protestant has somehow turned into a huge debate on WORSHIP.
I am tired from my new responsibilities.... and so I do not have the time to answer deep dilemmas at this time.... so there's that.
I am not offended in the least regarding ANYTHING that my buddy Major has said... but when I try to make a point... I guess I get right into it and list what I have to say and be done with it.
I'm good... EVERYONE is good.... BECAUSE I am NOT churched... I am missing out on the EFFECT of WHEN things began to CHANGE with Worship. I entered into the scene ( again... UNCHURCHED ) in 2000... and I was ONLY exposed to Contemporary Worship.
How many times have I said... I'm done... I'm out?? ... HAHAHA...... I am simply trying to state that I am OK with other's take on this.... but I am sad that this is an issue in churches.... I think there are bigger fish.... Just my little SHEEPISH opinion. There is truly NOTHING more to say.
SO..... LOVE YOU all.... I'm really just done saying anything I could possibly state about Worship.... the rest is simply respecting that I don't see it the same way that many do. I am ok with that.
Hello LearningToLetGo and YeshuaFan;
I agree. Mathias had to walk with Jesus during His mission and so did Barsabbas. So they prayed and asked the Lord to show which of the two has He chosen. After Mathias was chosen we don't hear his name again or his fate in the Bible.
God bless everyone.
o no pentecostal worship in a baptist church.. they stand they sing they clap.. only part i disagree with is how tongues is used and of course the twitching and jerking.. i was in a pentc church guy took off smacked the wall... if its of God it will be done decently and in order might i add i dont agree with the slain in the spirit..