Beware Erroneous Gospel
- Thread starter Noblemen
- Start date
- Status
OK then let's determine a few things.
The NT is a series of Letters
Letters are addressed to some one.
Paul addresses his letters as well.
Perhaps James could have spent hours or years praying to learn every ones names so he could of addressed his letters to @Noblemen and FCJ and so forth. When we get home we should sit down with James and ask him why he did not include all our names.
But wait, he said brethren and brothers. Do you suppose there is unsaved brethren too?
Kingdom message is to the born again my friend. It is us who are born again that dwell in the kingdom.
James talks about life for a believer and keys in on areas of vital importance to all believers.
Paul writes letters to many different churches, do we throw them out because they were written to them?
Yes @Noblemen my dear friend I am having a little fun with you in this reply but I do so to make my point.
Love you brother
FCJ
Hi @Fish Catcher Jim ,
I agree with Noblemen, in regard to the fact that the address on the envelope is important. If I picked up a letter addressed to my sister, written by my Father, there would be a great deal that would be of interest to me, because we share the same relationship, but there would also be much that would have no application for me whatsoever, because of our differing circumstances, hopes and aspirations. For me to attempt to apply them to myself would lead to confusion and misunderstanding.
The ministries of Peter, James, and the rest of the twelve were Israel specific, and concerned the kingdom, and in Paul's early epistles, written prior to Acts 28, Israel had a prior position. After Acts 28, and the laying aside of Israel (temporarily) in unbelief, his epistles, Eph, Col, Phil, 1&2 Tim. and Titus, were directed to the members of the Church of the One Body specifically, Israel no longer having a prior position. This newly created company is unique, in both hope and Destiny, and should therefore be considered quite differently to those epistles written prior to it's inception.
Paul's early epistles, especially Romans, are foundational and transitional, because the opportunity still remained for Israel to come to repentance.
Paul's early epistles, especially Romans, were foundational and transitional, because the door was still open for Israel, as a nation, to repent, and the restoration of the Kingdom to take place with the return of Christ. This ceased at Acts 28, and awaits a future day.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I agree with Noblemen, in regard to the fact that the address on the envelope is important. If I picked up a letter addressed to my sister, written by my Father, there would be a great deal that would be of interest to me, because we share the same relationship, but there would also be much that would have no application for me whatsoever, because of our differing circumstances, hopes and aspirations. For me to attempt to apply them to myself would lead to confusion and misunderstanding.
The ministries of Peter, James, and the rest of the twelve were Israel specific, and concerned the kingdom, and in Paul's early epistles, written prior to Acts 28, Israel had a prior position. After Acts 28, and the laying aside of Israel (temporarily) in unbelief, his epistles, Eph, Col, Phil, 1&2 Tim. and Titus, were directed to the members of the Church of the One Body specifically, Israel no longer having a prior position. This newly created company is unique, in both hope and Destiny, and should therefore be considered quite differently to those epistles written prior to it's inception.
Paul's early epistles, especially Romans, are foundational and transitional, because the opportunity still remained for Israel to come to repentance.
Paul's early epistles, especially Romans, were foundational and transitional, because the door was still open for Israel, as a nation, to repent, and the restoration of the Kingdom to take place with the return of Christ. This ceased at Acts 28, and awaits a future day.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
Hello @Complete
If I write a letter say to that man concerning the car I built for that man and then later that man sells it to woman there and gives the letter written to "that man" concerning the car that man sold to woman there.
Does it make the letter addressed to that man void and null to woman there because it was written to that man?
No it does not for the letter pertains to the car and not that man.
All scripture 2 Timothy 3:16 is God breathed and only good for those who a letter was addressed to ? Is that how it is written ?
No ! We know better then that.The kingdom of God is in fact where every believer should dwell. His word is how we are to conduct our selves in this kingdom of God.
If you make James or any other NT book (letters) of little to know use for a born again Believer then are you not simply choosing what one shall follow or obey?
Some translations say Jewish Christians scattered among the nations.
If we say hey that was for them and not a NT believer then we are saying there are different types of Christians and different commands for all of us.
That won't stand!
James wrote from what Jesus taught.
James teaches us about inner growth and how we must function in order to not stay the same as we were before we got born again .
The word of God does not change.
The words (letters) are just as anointed today as the day they were written.
Have a wonderful day my friend @Complete
Blessings
FCJ
OK then let's determine a few things.
The NT is a series of Letters
Letters are addressed to some one.
Paul addresses his letters as well.
Perhaps James could have spent hours or years praying to learn every ones names so he could of addressed his letters to @Noblemen and FCJ and so forth. When we get home we should sit down with James and ask him why he did not include all our names.
But wait, he said brethren and brothers. Do you suppose there is unsaved brethren too?
Kingdom message is to the born again my friend. It is us who are born again that dwell in the kingdom.
James talks about life for a believer and keys in on areas of vital importance to all believers.
Paul writes letters to many different churches, do we throw them out because they were written to them?
Yes @Noblemen my dear friend I am having a little fun with you in this reply but I do so to make my point.
Love you brother
FCJ
I understand Jimmy but does not debunk the fact the book of James is full of law. I can take it, may want to have a little fun with you sometime.
Alot of good stuff in James, it's part of God's word and James wrote under an Anointing and God uses it but most of it is just life application, not the preaching of Christ who is life.
The scriptures can become your sacred Cow, if someone gets on it, there's trouble.
Hello @Complete
If I write a letter say to that man concerning the car I built for that man and then later that man sells it to woman there and gives the letter written to "that man" concerning the car that man sold to woman there.
Does it make the letter addressed to that man void and null to woman there because it was written to that man?
No it does not for the letter pertains to the car and not that man.
All scripture 2 Timothy 3:16 is God breathed and only good for those who a letter was addressed to ? Is that how it is written ?
The kingdom of God is in fact where every believer should dwell. His word is how we are to conduct our selves in this kingdom of God.
If you make James or any other NT book (letters) of little to know use for a born again Believer then are you not simply choosing what one shall follow or obey?
Some translations say Jewish Christians scattered among the nations.
If we say hey that was for them and not a NT believer then we are saying there are different types of Christians and different commands for all of us.
That won't stand!
James wrote from what Jesus taught.
James teaches us about inner growth and how we must function in order to not stay the same as we were before we got born again .
The word of God does not change.
The words (letters) are just as anointed today as the day they were written.
Have a wonderful day my friend @Complete
Blessings
FCJ
I don't mean to nitpick or cherry pick a post but well ummm, Chris there is no such thing as Jewish Christian, Italian Christian, German Christian, or what knots.
We, as believers have no background or ethnicity, old things are passed away and all things become new to us, just a foot note.
Hello @Fish Catcher Jim, and @Noblemen,
I think you should read what I said again, for you have both misunderstood me completely.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I think you should read what I said again, for you have both misunderstood me completely.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
You mention new understanding, I agree! However, you also mention new truth. Here extreme caution is needed. We have God's complete revelation in His Word. Could you clarify please bro what you meant by "new truth?"We must always remember that just because any of us may not like or Believe what is being spoken Does Not make it False.
Far too many times it comes down to the individual who is making this Judgment Call simply Lacks revelation or understanding or spiritual insight in what is being spoken.
Far too often these judgment calls are made Without seeking our Lord and Allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us new truth or understanding.
Then also Far too often the one making the judgements is seeking God with a hardened heart or another words.....their minds are Already Made Up and their Hearts are Waxed Closed to new understanding or truth.
The Holy Spirit will teach us but we must be humble and open to what He has to say. He the Holy Spirit will not argue with you or force you to listen or believe. NO! He won't get in your way another words He will let you have it your way.
That is why their are so many false accusations and wrongly accused brethren and ministries.
I will end here for this is starting to take my brother @Noblemen post in a high jack direction and I won't do that to my friend !!
Note.....lol and it's against forum policies too.
Blessings
FCJ
Yes God's revelation is His word and the more time you spend with Him in His word the more or deeper our understanding of His word is.
He will begin to deepen your understanding and bring scriptures together that we alone would not have thought to use.
If we lived 500 years on this planet we would only begin to scratch the surface of depth of understanding.
Blessings
Nothing new under the sun, further clarification would be in Peter, present truth.
I don't know if that is what Jim was talking about, he will have to answer your question, but that is my understanding for today.
The word is never held to one truth for all ages.
Agreed. Religious but lost!
Agreed @Complete. Let me site an example of "another gospel" or erroneous teaching.
We have all heard of the "Seeker friendly church". We have heard some say that they are in fact a "Seeker".
That is another gospel which is false. We do not seek and find God.....He is seeking us. Jesus said in Luke 19;10...........
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
When Adam and Eve sinned they ran from God and man has been running from God ever since. If we say that WE are seeking God we are in fact then taking credit for our salvation which is an erroneous teaching which many have fallen into.
WHY have so many fallen for this error????
IMO it is because they have listened to a man instead of digging into the written Word of God.
Just my opinion. Love it or leave it!
-
This is very true..
And when we are trying to rightly divide the word, there are CLUES........and a big one is ....NOTE to whom the epistle is being addressed., and from THERE, you can begin to discern if what is in it, is doctrine for the body of Christ......or perhaps NOT.
And right HERE, is where so many become "hung up" in James and Hebrews, and to a certain extent MATTHEW, with regards to "Salvation", "The Grace of God", and "justification by faith".
And i'l give you another clue..... = Not all the epistle were written the same day
........and you will discovered that the reason that some of the epistles, regarding "Justification by faith", seem to contradict Paul, is because when the writer of said epistle wrote his letter, he didnt have yet the revelation of the Grace of God, and so, he wrote his "salvation theology", based on his current revelation.... at the time.For example, we see James say...."Can Faith save us"?.....and many will use this to create a works based theology.....when in fact, what James is telling you is that Faith does not save you......Because its GOD who saves you.......not your faith......... All your faith does is meet a condition that God requires to THEN SAVE YOU....
RIGHTEOUSNESS >comes<.......is manifested, is delivered, based ON........but its not FAITH that saved you........It GOD who saved you, via via via, your faith.
After all, if there were no Blood of Jesus, No God, and no Sacrifice, what good is your faith? = nothing.......its meaningless unless it has something that can SAVE YOU through it.......and that is GOD who does the SAVING, and NOT your Faith.
But most read James, or many, like this......"Does faith save us, of course not, we have to work or deeds and keep some commandments and confess our sins".... and all this combined with our faith, saves us.... = NOPE.
Or look at Acts 2:38...
Millions believe that verse is the "Gospel".....but its not.....as Peter does not have at that time the Pauline revelation of "Justification by faith".
So, how could he preach WHAT HE DOES NOT YET KNOW ????
Exactly....
And that is why we have to learn some history of these Epistles which allows us to realize some things.......and one of the biggies is to realize is...
Can an Apostle teach as doctrine in his epistle, what he does not know about yet?
= NOPE.
And THAT is why some teaching(s) in the NT, seem to contract PAUL.
Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in God's written word contradicts any other part of His written word especially NT to NT.-
This is very true..
And when we are trying to rightly divide the word, there are CLUES........and a big one is ....NOTE to whom the epistle is being addressed., and from THERE, you can begin to discern if what is in it, is doctrine for the body of Christ......or perhaps NOT.
And right HERE, is where so many become "hung up" in James and Hebrews, and to a certain extent MATTHEW, with regards to "Salvation", "The Grace of God", and "justification by faith".
And i'l give you another clue..... = Not all the epistle were written the same day
For example, we see James say...."Can Faith save us"?.....and many will use this to create a works based theology.....when in fact, what James is telling you is that Faith does not save you......Because its GOD who saves you.......not your faith......... All your faith does is meet a condition that God requires to THEN SAVE YOU....
RIGHTEOUSNESS >comes<.......is manifested, is delivered, based ON........but its not FAITH that saved you........It GOD who saved you, via via via, your faith.
After all, if there were no Blood of Jesus, No God, and no Sacrifice, what good is your faith? = nothing.......its meaningless unless it has something that can SAVE YOU through it.......and that is GOD who does the SAVING, and NOT your Faith.
But most read James, or many, like this......"Does faith save us, of course not, we have to work or deeds and keep some commandments and confess our sins".... and all this combined with our faith, saves us.... = NOPE.
Or look at Acts 2:38...
Millions believe that verse is the "Gospel".....but its not.....as Peter does not have at that time the Pauline revelation of "Justification by faith".
So, how could he preach WHAT HE DOES NOT YET KNOW ????
Exactly....
And that is why we have to learn some history of these Epistles which allows us to realize some things.......and one of the biggies is to realize is...
Can an Apostle teach as doctrine in his epistle, what he does not know about yet?
= NOPE.
And THAT is why some teaching(s) in the NT, seem to contract PAUL.
Peoples ideas and understanding bring contradiction but not God's word. James and Peter and every other book of the bible are recorded for all belivers. One can not pick and choose what one claims to be for saints today but one can choose to seek knowledge and learn a deeper understanding of God's written word.
It has been said in these threads that James was laws for the unbeliever and that is an erroneous gospel.
Paul was commissioned to take the gospel of Christ to the gentiles. Others were commissioned to take the gospel and right living to others and some were commissioned to equip the saints or the body of Christ to walk upright and victorious in Christ.
How any believer can pick and choose what is for a born again belivers in the NT is sad.
What would be good is an old fashion sit down and bring a scripture or two from the NT that one thinnks is not for us today.
Blessings
FCJ
Last edited:
Hello @Noblemen,
It is the failure to acknowledge the change in dispensation which took place at Acts 28, which prevents the further acknowledgement of the ministry of Paul which followed that event. *The prison epistles are vital reading for all who would know Christ in all His fulness, where all is 'of', and 'in', the spirit - the flesh having no place, with it's religious rites and dogma.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon (letters written from prison)
Just to point out something to consider.
If a person comes from Italy and becomes a Christian, isn't he in fact an Italian Christian??? A Christian living in Italy.
If a person living in Judah, believes upon Jesus as their Messiah, would they not then be a Jewish Christian??? A Christian living in Judah.
I live in Florida and I am a Christian. Did the fact I live or lived in Florida cease to be a fact?
Just thinking out loud.
@Complete. Is it your understanding that the book of Acts will not end until the Rapture takes place because the continuing work of the Holy Spirit has not yet been completed. The Holy Spirit is still adding to the church every day and therefore Acts is a continuing story.
-
This is very true..
And when we are trying to rightly divide the word, there are CLUES........and a big one is ....NOTE to whom the epistle is being addressed., and from THERE, you can begin to discern if what is in it, is doctrine for the body of Christ......or perhaps NOT.
And right HERE, is where so many become "hung up" in James and Hebrews, and to a certain extent MATTHEW, with regards to "Salvation", "The Grace of God", and "justification by faith".
And i'l give you another clue..... = Not all the epistle were written the same day
For example, we see James say...."Can Faith save us"?.....and many will use this to create a works based theology.....when in fact, what James is telling you is that Faith does not save you......Because its GOD who saves you.......not your faith......... All your faith does is meet a condition that God requires to THEN SAVE YOU....
RIGHTEOUSNESS >comes<.......is manifested, is delivered, based ON........but its not FAITH that saved you........It GOD who saved you, via via via, your faith.
After all, if there were no Blood of Jesus, No God, and no Sacrifice, what good is your faith? = nothing.......its meaningless unless it has something that can SAVE YOU through it.......and that is GOD who does the SAVING, and NOT your Faith.
But most read James, or many, like this......"Does faith save us, of course not, we have to work or deeds and keep some commandments and confess our sins".... and all this combined with our faith, saves us.... = NOPE.
Or look at Acts 2:38...
Millions believe that verse is the "Gospel".....but its not.....as Peter does not have at that time the Pauline revelation of "Justification by faith".
So, how could he preach WHAT HE DOES NOT YET KNOW ????
Exactly....
And that is why we have to learn some history of these Epistles which allows us to realize some things.......and one of the biggies is to realize is...
Can an Apostle teach as doctrine in his epistle, what he does not know about yet?
= NOPE.
And THAT is why some teaching(s) in the NT, seem to contract PAUL.
I wonder if you would agree that James’ teachings concentrate on the works that exemplify that justification. IMO, James was writing to Jews to encourage them to continue growing in this new Christian faith and to not turn back to the dogma and rituals of Judaism. James emphasizes that good actions will naturally flow from those who are filled with the Spirit and questions whether someone may or may not have a saving faith if the fruits of the Spirit cannot be seen, much as Paul describes.
Yes Paul says my gospel.
No let's try and understand why he said this.
As I have said before Paul was the one who was commissioned to bring the good news of Jesus Christ to the gentiles who Had Not Heard this before but counted on the law to get them right before God.
Paul was commissioned to not only teach them but to show these people who knew Nothing about Jesus that this new teaching really worked.
Now many times not any different then today people claimed to have real truth and the right way and worked to convince those being saved and or following Christ were wrong. People do this very same thing today.
Paul would come back to try and get their thinking back in order.
Now Paul said things like fallen from grace and people turn and twist this into so many things it is not. There are threads every where doing this.
Now fallen from grace
Simply means traded grace which saves us from our shortcomings to back to trying to get right through the law or old ways that don't work.
Now Paul said Any other Gospel other then the one he taught. People twist this simple statement into things it is not and even in this thread.
Yes Paul's says things like he did not care if an angle came and spoke something different or if any man spoke anything different and he said things like let him be cursed by God and such.
Again in this thread and others Paul is being made to say things he did not.
Paul did not say.......only I know the truth or only I have been given this truth over the others such as James Peter and so forth but people have in here.
There were people claiming this and that and visits from angels and so forth and those who accepted what Paul had said were starting to believe these others over what Paul said.
To continue to say Paul speaks about this or that to believers but the others talk only to the unsaved and speak laws and such is in error.
Paul brought the way to Christ to people who had no clue. Now once they are saved they Need Teachings like James and so forth to learn how to walk in Christ rising above all this evil that works against a born again believer.
One might want to rethink your view on what James or any one else taught in the NT. You miss this and change not in these areas that are also taught in the NT, well you will be missing out on what God really had planned for you and will not be able to experience all of God's promises working in your life.
Blessings my brother and friend
Love in Christ
FCJ
No let's try and understand why he said this.
As I have said before Paul was the one who was commissioned to bring the good news of Jesus Christ to the gentiles who Had Not Heard this before but counted on the law to get them right before God.
Paul was commissioned to not only teach them but to show these people who knew Nothing about Jesus that this new teaching really worked.
Now many times not any different then today people claimed to have real truth and the right way and worked to convince those being saved and or following Christ were wrong. People do this very same thing today.
Paul would come back to try and get their thinking back in order.
Now Paul said things like fallen from grace and people turn and twist this into so many things it is not. There are threads every where doing this.
Now fallen from grace
Simply means traded grace which saves us from our shortcomings to back to trying to get right through the law or old ways that don't work.
Now Paul said Any other Gospel other then the one he taught. People twist this simple statement into things it is not and even in this thread.
Yes Paul's says things like he did not care if an angle came and spoke something different or if any man spoke anything different and he said things like let him be cursed by God and such.
Again in this thread and others Paul is being made to say things he did not.
Paul did not say.......only I know the truth or only I have been given this truth over the others such as James Peter and so forth but people have in here.
There were people claiming this and that and visits from angels and so forth and those who accepted what Paul had said were starting to believe these others over what Paul said.
To continue to say Paul speaks about this or that to believers but the others talk only to the unsaved and speak laws and such is in error.
Paul brought the way to Christ to people who had no clue. Now once they are saved they Need Teachings like James and so forth to learn how to walk in Christ rising above all this evil that works against a born again believer.
One might want to rethink your view on what James or any one else taught in the NT. You miss this and change not in these areas that are also taught in the NT, well you will be missing out on what God really had planned for you and will not be able to experience all of God's promises working in your life.
Blessings my brother and friend
Love in Christ
FCJ
- Status