Bible Verse Sharing and Thoughts

Garee

Account Closed
"Last days" is indeed lacking in specificity...meaning that there is no number of days given, nor is there a designated beginning and end given to us in direct reference. If you were living 3000 years ago, you too would say that the time of Christ's coming and the Tribulation period, etc., are all in the last days. It's simply a way of referring to period across the entire span of this earth's timeline.

I would offer. Lasts days is simply another way to say “walk by faith” or acording to the understanding of God not seen . The period of time by which all of mankind Jew and Gentile could hear the understanding having been empowered to walk by faith (receive the understanding of God not seen) came into effect when Peter preached the word and 3000 sons of God were born again from above. The promise of Joel had come.

The tribulation which was caused by gospel it as it is written. . . it rightfully divided creating new creatures as sons of God . It is still perfectly working in the heart of born again mankind. We are still dying under the Sun. There will be no dying in the new heaven and earth to come. That corupted whole creation all the rudments will disaper in the judgemnt fire.

Remember as sons of God born again mankind is not what we will be when we receive the new incoruptible bodies .it would appear they will be niether Jew nor gentile male or female 'She is reconnized as Christ bride.

The glory of creation before God corrupted shown in a couple of Old Testament parables below. . i His glory departed and some of the beasts became eaters of flesh and blood. Death began carrying out the promise . . .Don’t eat . . You will die . . Mark my word.

The parables below reads. . .

Isaiah 11:5-7 King James Version (KJV) And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

In the other parable the serpents meat or the false gospel of . . . You shall surely not die it will not be heard . The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. It’s the end of time under the Sun. The temporal use of the Sun and Moon had served there temporal purpose .The glory is restored no temple no more night .

Isaiah 65:24-25 King James Version (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Serpents meat . The Lord’s way of saying . . hit the road, eat dust
 
So, generally speaking, when all those dead bodies burst forth from their graves at the point of Christ's death, and the dead walked among the living, those obviously were resurrected bodies, and yet the rest of us have no hope for such? Why would we be treated any differently than those who lived and died before the cross? That's one I don't understand, and therefore need some clarification upon if it can be offered.

MM

You are corrct! I can not answer that question and you are going to have to ask someone one is teaching the Preterist theology.
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
The parables below reads. . .

Isaiah 11:5-7 King James Version (KJV) And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isaiah 65:24-25 King James Version (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.
The Scripture you have cited are not parables but are prophecy of things to come.
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
I think you are confusing 'parable' with discernment.
Rightly dividing Scripture or parables, as you say, is
in our willingness to put our ideas aside and utilize
what we know of God and apply it throughout our
learning of what He has told us. If it's future then it
just hasn't happened yet and there can be no parable
in what hasn't happened because a parable by definition
is a fictitious short story to convey a message. If the whole
Bible is a parable then it doesn't even fit the criteria of
being a parable because it becomes a long story that can
reveal nothing because we would have nothing to compare
the parable to in order to extract truth.
Basically, what I am gathering from your words is that the
Bible is a history book intended to make us better doers of
the law without really having any clear grasp of truth past or
present.
 
Indeed? I would hasten to say that Legion is a collective package of lower level, fallen angels as opposed to being Satan himself. Satan is a singular angel, where legion spoke to Jesus, in reference to themselves, in the plural. Can you show me in the Greek (Coine') how that is not the case? This is interesting to me.

As to eschatology, I don't see how the law of Moses ties into this. Perhaps you could explain this in more detail? I would appreciate it.

Beheadings have been going on for some time, and will become the execution style of choice in the near future.

Think about it: Rome is the one empire that was never destroyed like the other four. Most of what was once the Roman Empire is right now occupied by followers of Islam. That alone gives us ample reason to trust the literal as opposed to the ethereal. We can disagree on this, which is fine. It makes no difference. What we do know for sure is who wins in the end...and we also know Who is true, and who are the liars, and that's you and me and all others in this earth. God is True all the time...Amen!

MM

Excellent! (y)
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Additionally, I would like to add, that a parable with
no context lessens its value to the receiver. Parables
are in use today but instead of saying parable we say,
"for example". If I went up to a stranger and started
the conversation with "for example" and then followed
it with a short story and walked off they would have no
idea what message I was trying to convey and they
would think me crazy.
 

Garee

Account Closed
Hebrews 9:8 (NASB) says, "The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way
into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer
tabernacle is still standing,"

This verse, in context, is defining the dissolution of the old and
presentation of the new. There are distinctive parallels between
the setup of the Tabernacle and how that relates to our new
spiritual actions and presence of Spirit within us and this is an
extensive topic by itself.

This verse really has absolutely nothing to do with 1,000 years or time
in general. Simply, presenting out with the old and in with the new.

Yes the new born again eternal

I would add and mark it . .it is finished the beginning of the tribulation the last days where beliver sufer for the gospel preaching it .The gospel sent out into the whole world all the nations. Satan could no longer decieve all the nations that salavation has something to do with the corupted flesh which Jesus said of his own in John 6 it propfits for zero .What did propfit was the unsen work of the father working with Jesus the propmised demonstration of the lamb slain from the foundation as the foundation of the gospel .
 
Hi thanks for the reply

Each one of those is comparing literal thousand years in this realm of time under the Sun to another time period under the Sun. . . as if a thousand years had went past yesterday. Not a literal thousand years did go past. How would that affect the word yesterday?

I would offer It simply defines God is not limited to time restraints. It is why according to the opening statement of the book of Revelation we are informed that not only did he inspire it but also signified it .

Just like the whole period of time used as a parable for the time then present. There were kings in Israel (abomination of desolation).before the time of reformation came . . . promised in Joel when all the nation would hear the gospel .It was then Satan fell no longer able to deceive all the nations 3000 from all the nations heard the gospel and believed in God not seen .

When I see you capitalizing the word "Sun" like you did, what does that mean? I try to always pay attention to such nuances, assuming they have some meaning.

From here, onward, I think we can all agree, and assume it a given, that time has no constraints upon God, nor affects His perceptions in any way...except in relation to the events of this world. In other words, there was a specific time within the earthly timeline the Lord chose to enter into flesh, and walk among men, and various of the other timeline events, kingdoms and empires, and even tribes. He does indeed consider time within this timeline, the distinction being that He is not affected by it, nor limited by it.

So, let's just consider that a given so that we don't waste typing time on it. I think this should benefit both of us, and everyone else here.

Now, I'm still trying to nail down your system as to how you apply any kind of acid test for what is allegorical and what is literal. You have responded before on this question, but it was never in words I could wrap my mind around for an understanding. This is what we call in science "root cause" investigation. I'm trying to get to the root of your thought processes...or was all this taught to you by men? You're the only one who can answer this for me as to how it pertains to you and your thoughts. I would ask that all others refrain from writing down your thoughts about a man you've likely never met. I wish to hear this only from Garee, and I thank you all in advance for that consideration.

MM
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Yes the new born again eternal

I would add and mark it . .it is finished the beginning of the tribulation the last days where beliver sufer for the gospel preaching it .The gospel sent out into the whole world all the nations. Satan could no longer decieve all the nations that salavation has something to do with the corupted flesh which Jesus said of his own in John 6 it propfits for zero .What did propfit was the unsen work of the father working with Jesus the propmised demonstration of the lamb slain from the foundation as the foundation of the gospel . (I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH THE BOLD SENTENCE)
It sounds like you are saying that the tribulation began when Jesus said, "it is finished".
You also referred to John 6 and I estimate that you are speaking of John 6:63 & 64 which
says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have
spoken to you are spirit, and are life
. But there are some of you who do not believe.”

Why did Jesus say that the words He had spoken were spirit and life if what He meant
was that they were all parables?


Also, I do not intend to trample MMs inquiry as his question was a very good one.
MM said:

Now, I'm still trying to nail down your system as to how you apply any kind of acid test for what is allegorical and what is literal. You have responded before on this question, but it was never in words I could wrap my mind around for an understanding. This is what we call in science "root cause" investigation. I'm trying to get to the root of your thought processes...or was all this taught to you by men? You're the only one who can answer this for me as to how it pertains to you and your thoughts. I would ask that all others refrain from writing down your thoughts about a man you've likely never met. I wish to hear this only from Garee, and I thank you all in advance for that consideration.
 
I would offer. Lasts days is simply another way to say “walk by faith” or acording to the understanding of God not seen . The period of time by which all of mankind Jew and Gentile could hear the understanding having been empowered to walk by faith (receive the understanding of God not seen) came into effect when Peter preached the word and 3000 sons of God were born again from above. The promise of Joel had come.

The tribulation which was caused by gospel it as it is written. . . it rightfully divided creating new creatures as sons of God . It is still perfectly working in the heart of born again mankind. We are still dying under the Sun. There will be no dying in the new heaven and earth to come. That corupted whole creation all the rudments will disaper in the judgemnt fire.

Remember as sons of God born again mankind is not what we will be when we receive the new incoruptible bodies .it would appear they will be niether Jew nor gentile male or female 'She is reconnized as Christ bride.

The glory of creation before God corrupted shown in a couple of Old Testament parables below. . i His glory departed and some of the beasts became eaters of flesh and blood. Death began carrying out the promise . . .Don’t eat . . You will die . . Mark my word.

The parables below reads. . .

Isaiah 11:5-7 King James Version (KJV) And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

In the other parable the serpents meat or the false gospel of . . . You shall surely not die it will not be heard . The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. It’s the end of time under the Sun. The temporal use of the Sun and Moon had served there temporal purpose .The glory is restored no temple no more night .

Isaiah 65:24-25 King James Version (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Serpents meat . The Lord’s way of saying . . hit the road, eat dust

Garee, before I launch into post #101, I will await your response to post #108. If we have no commonality in any kind of foundational basis, then we're just talking past one another. Without foundational commonality, one of us may as well be arguing from the Quran, and the other Homer's Iliad.

Thank you.

MM
 

Garee

Account Closed
Indeed? I would hasten to say that Legion is a collective package of lower level, fallen angels as opposed to being Satan himself. Satan is a singular angel, where legion spoke to Jesus, in reference to themselves, in the plural. Can you show me in the Greek (Coine') how that is not the case? This is interesting to me.

As to eschatology, I don't see how the law of Moses ties into this. Perhaps you could explain this in more detail? I would appreciate it.

Beheadings have been going on for some time, and will become the execution style of choice in the near future.

Think about it: Rome is the one empire that was never destroyed like the other four. Most of what was once the Roman Empire is right now occupied by followers of Islam. That alone gives us ample reason to trust the literal as opposed to the ethereal. We can disagree on this, which is fine. It makes no difference. What we do know for sure is who wins in the end...and we also know Who is true, and who are the liars, and that's you and me and all others in this earth. God is True all the time...Amen!


MM


I would suggest it is all one level he has one name Legion. The one god of necromancy a false teaching authority today called patron saints disembodied workers with a familiar .

In an old testament example witches or wizards are those who brag of false visions they created in their own fleshly imagination . God had cut off Saul from any manner of prophecy. Saul to show he had no faith that comes from hearing God he hired a worker with a familiar spirit a witch. She being deceived saw the legion many gods . God sent Saul a strong delusion to believe the lying wonder. Saul bowed down and worshipped the ground.

1 samuael 28: 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

As to eschatology, I don't see how the law of Moses ties into this. Perhaps you could explain this in more detail? I would appreciate it.

The law of Moses represents the letter of the law “death” (you shall die and never rise. ) .While the unseen spirit of the law. the law of faith. It represents new born again life . while the term Moses and the prophets or Moses and elijsh who prepresent the prophets represent the power of faith . Together the law and the prophets they equal the witness of God the perfect law two laws combined .The Just and Justifier. And so the phrase to the law and the prophets the same as saying sola scriptura the power of the gospel form faith the unseen to the same.

The last day the death of the written law and its suffering called hell wil be cast into the judgment fire of God. The death of death . It will not rise up and declare or condemn "thou shall not eat or you will die and again" The letter will not rise forever more.

Beheadings have been going on for some time, and will become the execution style of choice in the near future.

I agree with the beheading John the Baptist who had doubt before he was beheaded he was moved from within and sent a messenger to see if Jesus was him the promised seed . Jesus reaffirmed it in a parable to John. . in the end the gospel was preached filled with various metaphors to give John the gospel understanding. ..

He saw the invisible souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of the Holy Spirit . Not as a witness to their own flesh. All believers are considered beheaded for the testimony of God not mankind How many lost their literal head is not recorded.

Abel the first recorded martyr was buried plowed under in the corn field out of sight out of mind the religion of Cain the fool,

Not sure what political empires like Rome have to do with the kingdom of God not of this world ? It not flesh and blood the things seen that we do struggle against. Its the legion that would make it about flesh and blood he has none of his own, His goal kill all flesh .
 

Garee

Account Closed
It sounds like you are saying that the tribulation began when Jesus said, "it is finished".
You also referred to John 6 and I estimate that you are speaking of John 6:63 & 64 which
says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have
spoken to you are spirit, and are life
. But there are some of you who do not believe.”

Why did Jesus say that the words He had spoken were spirit and life if what He meant
was that they were all parables?


Also, I do not intend to trample MMs inquiry as his question was a very good one.
MM said:
Hi thanks

The words “it is finished” indicated the promised demonstration of the work finished from the foundation of the world. The Lamb of God slain its demonstration had come to an end.

The veil torn from the top to the bottom used to represent the foreskin of the promised Son of man, Jesus it fulfilled the requirements of the ceremonial circumcision an Old Testament parable. The great tribulation the great gospel effecting all the nations of the world men an woman from all nations a kingdom of priest. One like never before or ever again. The reformation (sola scriptura) Still do its work of restoring the hearts of mankind to Christ’s government of peace. .

Words accompanied by the work of the Holy Spirit bring spirit life . The will . .”let there be “ and the power “it was good” both to will and to do. Corrupted flesh has no power .That power was there as the treasure Jesus had as his earthen body .He cried out when weak “not as I will but you father According to the unseen Spirit. . . . The temporal seen working with the unseen Sprit of the father . One work of faith or labor of their mutual love.

The powerless flesh it profits for zero

Then the parable in that chapter 6 to drink the blood of man can be understood as one giving spirit life in jeopardy of his own spirit. Just like pouring out water .Again a picture of the Son of man Jesus and the unseen Holy father. No man can have one without the other. .The gospel
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Hi thanks

The words “it is finished” indicated the promised demonstration of the work finished from the foundation of the world. The Lamb of God slain its demonstration had come to an end.

The veil torn from the top to the bottom used to represent the foreskin of the promised Son of man, Jesus it fulfilled the requirements of the ceremonial circumcision an Old Testament parable. The great tribulation the great gospel effecting all the nations of the world men an woman from all nations a kingdom of priest. One like never before or ever again. The reformation (sola scriptura) Still do its work of restoring the hearts of mankind to Christ’s government of peace. .

Words accompanied by the work of the Holy Spirit bring spirit life . The will . .”let there be “ and the power “it was good” both to will and to do. Corrupted flesh has no power .That power was there as the treasure Jesus had as his earthen body .He cried out when weak “not as I will but you father According to the unseen Spirit. . . . The temporal seen working with the unseen Sprit of the father . One work of faith or labor of their mutual love.

The powerless flesh it profits for zero

Then the parable in that chapter 6 to drink the blood of man can be understood as one giving spirit life in jeopardy of his own spirit. Just like pouring out water .Again a picture of the Son of man Jesus and the unseen Holy father. No man can have one without the other. .The gospel
Garee, I want to understand you, I really do, but I can't
see through all of your mystic writing. There is too much
of a divide between what I know and what you know.
 
I would suggest it is all one level he has one name Legion. The one god of necromancy a false teaching authority today called patron saints disembodied workers with a familiar .

Garee, from just this one statement alone, I don't see that we have any common basis for arriving at a harmonized consensus together on much of anything relating to eschatology. No offense, but you apply way too much subjectivism to your interpretations rather than to allow the words of scripture to paint the portrait objectively. When the words the authors were inspired to write are ignored in order to eisegetically inject your own meaning into the text, we have nothing in common for discussion. Failing to read the text for what it says is a dangerous practice that I simply cannot condone. Many cults have been initiated by use of this very practice, and is therefore unacceptable.

I hope you can accept that we simply will not see eye to eye on any of this. You have chosen your course on the basis of what other men teach. I say that as a safe analysis because I have grave doubts you would have come up with all this on your own. If you did come up with all this on your own, then I admit my error if that is the case.

Either way, until we have a basis for consistent rules applied to interpretation by accepting what God said, how He said it, in what measure He stated and applied it His inspirations, in what direction He applied it, and all manner of other clear indicators by which we can arrive at some sort of consensus basis from the words chosen, we end up only talking past each other. I've run into this all too often, mostly with roman catholics, mormons and jevoha's witnesses. I don't allow them to get away with this kind of stuff, which means we have no commonality for discussions. The same applies here.

I just wanted you to understand why I will now back off from this because, until the Spirit of the Lord shows you the errors in your understanding, discussion will remain unfruitful, and possibly even become contentious at some level...leading only to a dead end.

Thanks for your efforts in sharing with us.

MM
 

Garee

Account Closed
Garee, before I launch into post #101, I will await your response to post #108. If we have no commonality in any kind of foundational basis, then we're just talking past one another. Without foundational commonality, one of us may as well be arguing from the Quran, and the other Homer's Iliad.

Thank you.

MM

Hi thanks not a salvation issue.

The commonality I would think is the same spirit of faith as it is written the witness of God who works in us The apposing, the oral traditions of mankind the witness of men. . they make the witness of God without effect, The witness of God is greater as the one there working with and in the affairs of his children of faith

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

The same mutual faith spoken of in Roman 1 moving Paul with the gift of prophecy , sent as a apostle declaring it . it mutually working in the one sent to hearing it, the spiritul gift to understand of God . All gifts are two fold and mutual . . no self edyifying. Therefore as it is written called the gospel of faith (the unseen ) to the same.

The Quran, and the other Homer's Iliad are oral tradition of men after the philosophies of this world They are not the manner of spirit by which we could hear God and move as he works with us. .the apostles in Luke 9 learned that lesson in how to walk by the faith that comes as it is written. They did not mix faith as the understanding hidden in the parables. The understanding was concealed. Again to teach them how to walk by faith a life time learning process. The dark glass getting clearer if we grow in faith. He gives us that honor in a parable a kingdom of priest after the new order men and woman prophets sent to all the nations with the gospel we are given the honor to preach it as he reveals the understanding. .

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

In the conclusion of the series of parables hiding the gospel understanding. Jesus rebuked the apostles and revealed to them what manner of sprit they were of (Luke 9:55) it would seem clear not the the same spirit of faith, according as it is written. But rather an oral tradition of men .

Interestingly When the apostle Peter began one of the I heard it through the grape vine as an oral tradition or law of the fathers . . spreading the false gospel saying that John would not die Like in the garden surely you will not die. Jesus did the work of dispelling that false prophecy and stated that if every time he would of did the work of recording a lie inspired by man that we would need a bigger planet to store the books that could have been written . I would think one warning would be enough. Peter was on a learning curve. Some sects say it confirm the use of oral traditions. They have great libraries making room for more private interpretation. .
 

Garee

Account Closed
Garee, from just this one statement alone, I don't see that we have any common basis for arriving at a harmonized consensus together on much of anything relating to eschatology. No offense, but you apply way too much subjectivism to your interpretations rather than to allow the words of scripture to paint the portrait objectively. When the words the authors were inspired to write are ignored in order to eisegetically inject your own meaning into the text, we have nothing in common for discussion. Failing to read the text for what it says is a dangerous practice that I simply cannot condone. Many cults have been initiated by use of this very practice, and is therefore unacceptable.

I hope you can accept that we simply will not see eye to eye on any of this. You have chosen your course on the basis of what other men teach. I say that as a safe analysis because I have grave doubts you would have come up with all this on your own. If you did come up with all this on your own, then I admit my error if that is the case.

Either way, until we have a basis for consistent rules applied to interpretation by accepting what God said, how He said it, in what measure He stated and applied it His inspirations, in what direction He applied it, and all manner of other clear indicators by which we can arrive at some sort of consensus basis from the words chosen, we end up only talking past each other. I've run into this all too often, mostly with roman catholics, mormons and jevoha's witnesses. I don't allow them to get away with this kind of stuff, which means we have no commonality for discussions. The same applies here.

I just wanted you to understand why I will now back off from this because, until the Spirit of the Lord shows you the errors in your understanding, discussion will remain unfruitful, and possibly even become contentious at some level...leading only to a dead end.

Thanks for your efforts in sharing with us.

MM

Arriving at a harmonized consensus together with consistent rules applied to interpretation by accepting what God said. I would think would include that without parables, the hidden manna, or pearl of great cost the poetic tongue of God. He spoke not.

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


There is no commandment that informs us to look to the literal and ignore the spiritual signified understanding. That would sem to be the flavor of the cults.. We can see that qualifier in the opening statement. Not only inspired it but signified it .

Just like the time period when there were Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation.

Revelation 1:1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

We are given the tools to rightly divide prophecy or parables. From my experience many see parables as little stories that come along side and they are not teaching tools to teach us how to walk by faith the unseen hid in parables. .The result seems clear. To them who walk by sight those who literalize after what the eyes see the temporal "day" is the same as the metaphor used "thousand years" eternal.

Thousand is used throughout the bible to represent a unknown . The first three times certainly sets the standard . It does not change using one chapter (Rev.20) that is clearly signified or any chapter of the book .

Arriving at a harmonized consensus together. What is the purpose of the prescription like the one I offer below if not to rightly divide the parables. . again to teach us how to walk by faith? (Mix faith)

What do parables teach if not how to walk by faith the unseen eternal ?

2 Corihians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 

CPerkins

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
I think we can all agree that it is God who gives us a spirit of understanding. If we are fully persuaded in our own minds that God has led us to understanding, then that is what matters.

2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (KJV)

Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. (KJV)

I look to 1 John 2 when it comes to the commandments that God would have me to keep today.
 
Arriving at a harmonized consensus together with consistent rules applied to interpretation by accepting what God said. I would think would include that without parables, the hidden manna, or pearl of great cost the poetic tongue of God. He spoke not.

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


There is no commandment that informs us to look to the literal and ignore the spiritual signified understanding. That would sem to be the flavor of the cults.. We can see that qualifier in the opening statement. Not only inspired it but signified it .

Garee, since you've chosen to open the can, you've probably noticed that I'm not a follower of New Covenant Theology. I don't agree with it because it willfully and intentionally introduces all manner of subjective interpretations, and even pushes to the level or Replacement Theology, as was the belief of people like Origin and Luther and Augustine, and on to Hitler. Those men were seriously flawed in their thinking. This idea that because people like Origin was closer to the time of the apostles, that he must have had a right and more proper understanding of the teachings and beliefs of the apostles. That couldn't be further from the truth. 3 John 1:9 is a prime example that even in the time of the apostles, there was already departures from the purity and consistency of what the apostles taught, even the extent of telling Paul himself to get lost, and that he was not welcome in that assembly.

Now, in your Matthew 13:34 reference, you appear to have ignored the clarity of the language that cannot be allegoricalized into oblivion. That verse clearly shines the light of scope onto "...these things..." One will search in vain where that verse indicated that everything Jesus and His apostles taught was in need of interpretive dissemination in order for believers to understand. Trying to stretch that blanket wide enough to cover all of scripture only causes rips and tears in its fabric. That system of belief has no solid grounding, and should be rejected outright

Additionally, you shot your own case out from under you when quoting Mark 4:11 where it's written that "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God..." Yes, but that verse also does not lay claim to everything spoken in the Bible is allegorical. Consider that Paul revealed the entirety of the mystery of the Gospel when He said:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Every part of the Bible, therefore, points to Christ Jesus. It's all about Him, and attempts at taking that away from the average believer under the guise of Covenantal Theology and Replacement Theology, no sir! That's unacceptable. That's not teaching from God and His word. It comes from men with an agenda and other sources I will not name here.

That's not to say that you personally have an agenda, but there are those who do, starting with Origin, down through roman catholiciam and its evil priesthood, and on into modern cults that have long since departed from the purity of God's word for what it says.

MM
 
Garee, since you've chosen to open the can, you've probably noticed that I'm not a follower of New Covenant Theology. I don't agree with it because it willfully and intentionally introduces all manner of subjective interpretations, and even pushes to the level or Replacement Theology, as was the belief of people like Origin and Luther and Augustine, and on to Hitler. Those men were seriously flawed in their thinking. This idea that because people like Origin was closer to the time of the apostles, that he must have had a right and more proper understanding of the teachings and beliefs of the apostles. That couldn't be further from the truth. 3 John 1:9 is a prime example that even in the time of the apostles, there was already departures from the purity and consistency of what the apostles taught, even the extent of telling Paul himself to get lost, and that he was not welcome in that assembly.

Now, in your Matthew 13:34 reference, you appear to have ignored the clarity of the language that cannot be allegoricalized into oblivion. That verse clearly shines the light of scope onto "...these things..." One will search in vain where that verse indicated that everything Jesus and His apostles taught was in need of interpretive dissemination in order for believers to understand. Trying to stretch that blanket wide enough to cover all of scripture only causes rips and tears in its fabric. That system of belief has no solid grounding, and should be rejected outright

Additionally, you shot your own case out from under you when quoting Mark 4:11 where it's written that "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God..." Yes, but that verse also does not lay claim to everything spoken in the Bible is allegorical. Consider that Paul revealed the entirety of the mystery of the Gospel when He said:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Every part of the Bible, therefore, points to Christ Jesus. It's all about Him, and attempts at taking that away from the average believer under the guise of Covenantal Theology and Replacement Theology, no sir! That's unacceptable. That's not teaching from God and His word. It comes from men with an agenda and other sources I will not name here.

That's not to say that you personally have an agenda, but there are those who do, starting with Origin, down through roman catholiciam and its evil priesthood, and on into modern cults that have long since departed from the purity of God's word for what it says.

MM

Well said MM.

You said..............
"Replacement Theology, no sir! That's unacceptable. That's not teaching from God and His word. It comes from men with an agenda and other sources I will not name here."

Excellent!

You see, and from what I have read from your posts, you do understand that the theology of PRETERISM has its roots in Replacement Theology which by its very words demands that the Word of God be changed into "Allogories and Spiritualazitions" so that the wishes and imaginations of men replace the wrtitten Word of God.

Congratulations!

1 Timothy 4:1......
"
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Garee, since you've chosen to open the can, you've probably noticed that I'm not a follower of New Covenant Theology. I don't agree with it because it willfully and intentionally introduces all manner of subjective interpretations, and even pushes to the level or Replacement Theology, as was the belief of people like Origin and Luther and Augustine, and on to Hitler. Those men were seriously flawed in their thinking. This idea that because people like Origin was closer to the time of the apostles, that he must have had a right and more proper understanding of the teachings and beliefs of the apostles. That couldn't be further from the truth. 3 John 1:9 is a prime example that even in the time of the apostles, there was already departures from the purity and consistency of what the apostles taught, even the extent of telling Paul himself to get lost, and that he was not welcome in that assembly.

Now, in your Matthew 13:34 reference, you appear to have ignored the clarity of the language that cannot be allegoricalized into oblivion. That verse clearly shines the light of scope onto "...these things..." One will search in vain where that verse indicated that everything Jesus and His apostles taught was in need of interpretive dissemination in order for believers to understand. Trying to stretch that blanket wide enough to cover all of scripture only causes rips and tears in its fabric. That system of belief has no solid grounding, and should be rejected outright

Additionally, you shot your own case out from under you when quoting Mark 4:11 where it's written that "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God..." Yes, but that verse also does not lay claim to everything spoken in the Bible is allegorical. Consider that Paul revealed the entirety of the mystery of the Gospel when He said:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Every part of the Bible, therefore, points to Christ Jesus. It's all about Him, and attempts at taking that away from the average believer under the guise of Covenantal Theology and Replacement Theology, no sir! That's unacceptable. That's not teaching from God and His word. It comes from men with an agenda and other sources I will not name here.

That's not to say that you personally have an agenda, but there are those who do, starting with Origin, down through roman catholiciam and its evil priesthood, and on into modern cults that have long since departed from the purity of God's word for what it says.

MM
Very well said, indeed, MM.
 
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