Does that mean they can never be saved then?
Blessing our enemies
- Thread starter Via dolarossa
- Start date
No sin is beyond the blood of Christ.
Sin cannot conquer God.
It does remain that the sinner must accept Christ as payment for his sin, which requires that the sinner acknowledges his sinful nature.
Those people you mentioned have severe mental issues. It begs the question Via........where do the mentally ill go at death?????
I will give you my response when you give me yours or as some say, show me yours and I will show you mine.
I’m going to guess they go to heaven.
Because if I’m in heaven, only heavenly beings will be allowed right?
And if I come across a serial killer in heaven, he will be a reformed one.... and I can say, “ hey, glad you made it
”Or.... they may still really be serial killers , but they won’t kill mee
I’m going to guess they go to heaven.
Because if I’m in heaven, only heavenly beings will be allowed right?
And if I come across a serial killer in heaven, he will be a reformed one.... and I can say, “ hey, glad you made it
Or.... they may still really be serial killers , but they won’t kill mee
Maybe. However the Bible says that only those who profess and accept Christ will go to heaven.
Do you think that the severely mentally ill can make such a distinction or are they under the blood of Christ?
Could there be another option?
My first response was from wanting to see them saved... but thinking about it more.....no I don’t think they will be able to choose to be any other way because they probably enjoy being a serial killer to much.
So maybe they are in their own kind of heaven. Just count me out.
There are a number of questions around the concept of those that are unable to comprehend and thus accept Christ.
For example a number of churches teach that below a certain age, children are not accountable. Infants and youngsters below that level of maturity are said to be taken to heavan as a matter of course. I have not seen this in Scripture however attractive it seems.
I do not feel compelled to have an opinion, but would like to be made aware of scripture that sheds light here.
I thought Jesus said the kingdom of God is for the little ones and he forbids them not. Matthew 19:14 and Luke 18:16
Unless your bible says it completely different and says 'you have to understand and be completely mature to accept Christ.' It does not - it actually says the opposite, you must be humble like a child to enter the Kingdom. Matthew 18:4
I agree with you Siloam. There are NO Scriptures that validate an "age of accountability" that I know about.
The Bible tells us that, even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed. Inherited sin is that which is passed on from our parents.
Now here is where the problem comes. Thirteen is the most common age suggested for the age of accountability, based on the Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of 13. However, the Bible gives no direct support to the age of 13 always being the age of accountability.
Now here is another option to consider. Since the only people who can go to heaven are those who knowingly accept Christ, what about the mentally ill or those living in some very remote place who have never heard the gospel.
Ready.........they will go to hell but hell for them will not be the same as it will be for those who knowingly rejected Christ. I AM NOT saying that I am propagating this theaching, only that it is being taught and in fact does make logical sense.
Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people.
Luke 12: 47-48.....
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked”.
A clearer passage is Luke 10:12 where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town”.
Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin in verse 14.........
“It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you”.
Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.
The common thought today is that everyone goes to heaven.
Unfortunately, the Bible states that most people will wind up in hell. Matthew 7:13-14........
“Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it”.
John Walvoord in Four View on Hell regarded the evidence as conclusive: "Jesus also indicated that punishment in hell would be by degrees, depending on their understanding of the will of their master." [Walvoord, "The Literal View" in William Crocket (ed.), Four Views on Hell (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992), 21.]
Larry Dixon briefly makes the same claim about Luke 12:17-48, saying that it teaches "degrees of punishment at the judgment" [Dixon, The Other Side of the Good News (Fearn: Christian Focus Publications, 2003), 115].
Source.....https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/degrees-of-hell.php#.X4iJ9uaSncs
If its inherited sin then children of christian parents won't inherit their sin right?
Or wrong?
Not sure it makes sense but you are completely ignoring what Jesus said about the matter in the verses I have referenced in my last post.
Sorry.
There's no 'age' specfied but traditonally in Jewish culture a bar mitzvah is performed for a boy who's turned 13.
And in some churches, they have something called 'confirmation'.
There is actually a difference between a child and an adult, if anyone who has a family or worked with children can understand.
Or wrong?
Not sure it makes sense but you are completely ignoring what Jesus said about the matter in the verses I have referenced in my last post.
Sorry.
There's no 'age' specfied but traditonally in Jewish culture a bar mitzvah is performed for a boy who's turned 13.
And in some churches, they have something called 'confirmation'.
There is actually a difference between a child and an adult, if anyone who has a family or worked with children can understand.
Hello Lanolin;
Inherited sin is the human nature of sin since the time of Adam and Eve. It is not in our "genes" that our parents or family generation pass their sin down to us, but the practice of inherited sin from our family core foundations that include "wayward habits" influenced to their children.
In the New Testament we are taught grace and are not enslaved to "passed down" sin but liberated to break away in our obedience to God and following Jesus daily. When we follow Jesus daily we break old habits and minimize the bondage of sin.
I agree there is a difference between a child and an adult. I'm a case example and needed child therapy while growing up during ages 5 - 15. Even when I accepted Christ at the age of 9 I still had issues and through fervent prayer my parents sought help for me. The child therapist was a Christian and sprinkled Scriptures from the Bible making it easy for me to understand in align with my issues.
The prayers of my parents, family and the church broke the demons (enemy) that was in me as a child.
Thank you always, sister, for sharing in our topics.
Major...
Can the prayers of those in heaven help those less fortunate ones who are in judgement?
If we are in heaven, then I’m guessing we have nothing more to aim for for ourselves so I wonder if our task would just be to pray for others to “ lift them out of the pits” so to speak.
I’ve heard of intessession and wonder if this applies to us in heaven
Can the prayers of those in heaven help those less fortunate ones who are in judgement?
If we are in heaven, then I’m guessing we have nothing more to aim for for ourselves so I wonder if our task would just be to pray for others to “ lift them out of the pits” so to speak.
I’ve heard of intessession and wonder if this applies to us in heaven
Why not intercessory prayer now here on earth.
I've done it. More of its binding demons from operating though because you can't pray for someone's mind and heart to change they've got to make that choice but you can make it easier for them to choose life.
If someone is in chains or their ears and eyes aren't listening or hearing, you've got to pray against that (Satan is the one who blinds and blocks ears).
I think of it this way, you can't actually MAKE a plant grow. They have all that is in them in the seed or cells to grow but they just need the right conditions and the right time and temperature. Some of those things you can adjust like the soil, you can transplant, and maybe make warmer but you can't move an entire season, and you can't give it steroids because any growth from that isn't natural and they will die later from over producing if you do that.
Also a lot of plants people think are weeds actually have a purpose and a use. They may be in the 'wrong place' but it could be you just haven't found their purpose.
I've done it. More of its binding demons from operating though because you can't pray for someone's mind and heart to change they've got to make that choice but you can make it easier for them to choose life.
If someone is in chains or their ears and eyes aren't listening or hearing, you've got to pray against that (Satan is the one who blinds and blocks ears).
I think of it this way, you can't actually MAKE a plant grow. They have all that is in them in the seed or cells to grow but they just need the right conditions and the right time and temperature. Some of those things you can adjust like the soil, you can transplant, and maybe make warmer but you can't move an entire season, and you can't give it steroids because any growth from that isn't natural and they will die later from over producing if you do that.
Also a lot of plants people think are weeds actually have a purpose and a use. They may be in the 'wrong place' but it could be you just haven't found their purpose.
IMHO.....No they can not.
I do not know of any Bible Scriptures which say the people in heaven know what is going on down here on the earth.
I do know however that the Bible clearly says that there will be no more tears or sorrow in heaven. IF they could see their falilies on the earth IMO that just may produce sorrow and tears.
Rev. 21:4......
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
In Heaven there will be no more fear or worry or stress. We won’t need locks on the doors, or bars on the windows, or sophisticated alarm systems – because everything that causes fear will be eliminated. Evil and Satan and death will be banished forever, and we will no longer be threatened, either by nature or by other people. Conflicts and wars will cease, and all the things that divided us on earth will divide us no more. God’s promise will be fulfilled. In keeping with his promise we are looking forward to “a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).
Neither do we who are alive need to pray for those who have died. Those people's fate were fixed by their choice while alive.
"INTERSESSION" means .........taking someone's place/standing in for someone else.
Jesus Christ is our intercessor. He took our place and died for our sins so that we as believers In Him can say that we are JUSTIFIED which means to be called "Not Guilty".
Only the Lord Jesus could do that.........No One Else!!!!
Thinking the dead in heaven are praying for the living on earth seems to me a kind of catholic teaching...via dolorosa where you raised catholic is that why you have these ideas about intercession you want to question? Mary and every other saint no longer here on earth - we can't ask them or talk to them and get them to pray for US or anyone else. I know some people believe this cos I've heard people ask in all sincerity if Mary mother of Jesus can pray for their dead relatives. All that time I'm thinking um. Why, they can't hear you.
Seems a bit backward. We here on earth need to be the ones doing the praying, not passing the buck to someone else!
Jesus then does the saving, not us, but we can petition or remind God of the ones who need salvation which everyone needs to accept while still in our mortal bodies.
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man you might want to read. In a nutshell Lazarus went to heaven and the rich man went to hell (or hades) and the rich man thought it was so awful he wanted to warn everyone about it. But Jesus said nobody would believe him even if he came back from the dead cos they weren't even listening to Moses and the prophets.
Seems a bit backward. We here on earth need to be the ones doing the praying, not passing the buck to someone else!
Jesus then does the saving, not us, but we can petition or remind God of the ones who need salvation which everyone needs to accept while still in our mortal bodies.
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man you might want to read. In a nutshell Lazarus went to heaven and the rich man went to hell (or hades) and the rich man thought it was so awful he wanted to warn everyone about it. But Jesus said nobody would believe him even if he came back from the dead cos they weren't even listening to Moses and the prophets.
That is a really good question.
And, for arguments sake, why does God create people who are serial killers.
But God doesn't create people who are serial killers.
He created people, but some people chose to sin and be serial killers. Cain was in all respects probably a normal boy growing up with his brother Abel. How would anybody know he would grow up to kill his own brother?
Just like God created people, and some get sick mentally and physically.
We are all created out of dust of the earth,so are all (before we are born again) mortal and weak. The things we need to grow and be healthy are given to us by God in our environment. But we can be deprived of sustenance and nurture.
If you've ever been around a new born baby you will appreciate just how weak and vulnerable we are as humans. And how important parents can be, which is why we look to God as our Father.
He created people, but some people chose to sin and be serial killers. Cain was in all respects probably a normal boy growing up with his brother Abel. How would anybody know he would grow up to kill his own brother?
Just like God created people, and some get sick mentally and physically.
We are all created out of dust of the earth,so are all (before we are born again) mortal and weak. The things we need to grow and be healthy are given to us by God in our environment. But we can be deprived of sustenance and nurture.
If you've ever been around a new born baby you will appreciate just how weak and vulnerable we are as humans. And how important parents can be, which is why we look to God as our Father.