CA Gov signs Right to Die bill...

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I am not going to disagree with you Jim. We must talk to each other with love and remain civil. So if we are going to go down this road, lets start then with Euphemia accusing Asuk of unbelief and you liking her post.

Well sir it is like this.........when one doubts what is clerarly written in the word of God and one says sorry for your unbelief in that area............I do not see any aught or wrong. The fact That I am not sorry for I am blessed does not change that i feel for believers when they doubt a portion of Gods word. This can be from lack of understanding or stubborn or simply been hurt.

If you can show me sir where my hitting the like button is as an act of not loving or walking in a wrong way then I shall repent and change my way.
God Bless Kj
Jim

 

[Euphemia]

Your understanding of things is quite interesting. It is as though you hold onto magic, signs and wonders as being God focused and human achievement as man focused. You just don't see the bigger picture.

Signs such as raising the dead, healing the sick and making a jar of honey never run out is ironically 'man focused' (carnality) as it is mustard seed Christianity. God just does not want mustard seed religion with us if He can avoid it. That is why he gave us very capable minds and hands.

It is intriguing that at every point you oppose. Nothing that God does through us which is a miraculous wonder is man-focused. Everything we do in Him brings Him glory and points to Him.

 

[Euphemia]

You can't say that. You give people false hope and attempt to play God if you think your faith has anything to do with raising the dead.

God raises the dead because on the other side the individual has a nice conversation with Him.

Dead person: Hi God how are you doing?
God: I am fine thanks. It is great to see you.
Dead person: Wow it is so nice here.
God: Wait until you see the rest.
Dead person: Am I officially dead and in heaven now?
God: Do you want that? You have family that still needs you and people that don't know about me.
Dead person: You right. Can I go back to my family. I wasn't the best parent.
God: Sure, no problem. See you next time.
Dead person: Thanks God, see you later.
Dead person: God before I go....who is this person standing next to my body chanting and trying to show everyone he has magical powers?
God option 1: I don't know Matt 7:22-23
God option 2: One of my children acting like his faith and a relationship with me are separate issues.

This is unbiblical.

 

[Euphemia]

Euphemia I agree 100 percent with you that we as believers have the right and authority to raise some one from the dead. Now for the next part I am saying what I have learned and I am not claiming that you are wrong in believing in the way you do here. I just want to be totally clear here....

When we wait for the Holy Spirit to say move or do this - then in reality we are only covering our fear with religion.........shhhh I said it is what I have come to see and I said I am not saying you are wrong to beleive in the way you do here........

What I mean is simply put as this.............
what if it does not work - I will look like a fool here..........what if they dont recover - what will the people think of me then and so on............

How do I know this............because I have fallen into this before. An older lady......such a wonderful sweet lady was walking her dog. Her only real companion and the dog was as old as she was. This dog was blind from some condition which also had been causing seisures in this dog. She was heart broken and they had told her the dog should already be dead.

Now it was easy to see this lady loved her dog and would be lost with out it. I really wanted to lay my hands on this dog so bad I had tears but I did not because - what if nothing happened or the dog died before she made it home.........

Now that is fear any way you say it. This is doubt and needs to be removed.
It is the same as waiting to be told. Would you wait to be told to lay hands on your grandchild if something happened ? No because they are our flesh and blood and loved big time.

Agaian this is Not aimed against you.
God Bless
Jim

You don't have to WAIT for Holy Spirit to direct you. He simply directs you.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

It is intriguing that at every point you oppose. Nothing that God does through us which is a miraculous wonder is man-focused. Everything we do in Him brings Him glory and points to Him.

Some people do not grasp that is it Gods working power working through us. They also do not grasp that it is God who decided to make it this way and some folks do not grasp that it is How God desires and commands us to live - His ways not our ways.........
God Bless
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

You don't have to WAIT for Holy Spirit to direct you. He simply directs you.

I agree with this........it sounded to me that you were saying we have to wait for the Holy spirit and if He does not tell us to then we dont.

 

[Euphemia]

I agree with this........it sounded to me that you were saying we have to wait for the Holy spirit and if He does not tell us to then we dont.

No waiting on God is necessary in these kinds of situations. When one is in tune with the Holy Spirit and walking in the anointing, one simply moves like Jesus did. We do, however, need belief and we need to know who we are in Christ. Many Christians lack one or the other or sadly, both.

 

[geralduk]

http://news.yahoo.com/california-governor-signs-hard-won-die-legislation-194359768--politics.html

Now this is an interesting concept; 'right to die'. Here again, in the United States you can do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt someone else. My question is, in the nonbeliever worldview, why limit this to terminally ill people? Why not expand it to anyone, healthy or not, for them to be allowed to 'humanly' kill themselves? It breaks my heart that people (and I'll venture to guess that people who have ended their lives in the 4 other states that permit 'right to die' have been self proclaimed 'Christians') feel as if there is no hope and/or lost or never had faith that Christ has already healed us, it's up to us to accept that healing. This whole idea of 'right to die' is quite frustrating. Whispers from the enemy seem to be becoming more prevalent nowadays.

It is interesting that having establsihed the lie that every one has the right to life . We get a progression of the lie to the right to die .
In truth such bills of humans rights are the most Godless wicked and vainn assertiosn ever put on paper.
What each assertion is saying that man can live independent of God and die when he chooses.
Both assertions are wrong .
The first but echos the whisper of the srerpent "ye shall not surely die "
The second also echos what happend "ye shall surely die"

No man has the right to life . For his breath in his nostrils.
If a man takes a deep breath .That is his ;and what he says with it and what he does with it is up to him .
But the next breath is not his.
When a man goes to work he ahs the right and the expectation to recieve some form of recompence or wages .On the foundation of Gods word that "every labourer is worthy of his hire" For he ahs spent his life ,hios skill and sweat in that labour and should therefore recieve what is due in return.
But while a man holds his breath and wonders what eh is going to do and say with his life . He should ask himself this question .The next breath which is not his. When did eh ever work or labour for it? When did he ever deserve it or earn it that he can say it is his by right?
In very truth the very first breath that any man ever took was at his mothers labour expense , She had to work mighty hard so that he might take his first breath.
A man then is in a love debt to his mother for the very first breath.
How much the more is a man then in a love debt to God for ecery one he has ever take or will?

A man who holds to tightly to the idea that he has the right to life then will reject the truth that "the wages of sin is death ........." and if he then rejects that truth he will then reject also what follows "............B ut the free gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ"
In truth when a man says he has the right to life he says no matter what evil I do ,no evil shall come .

in Christ
gerald

 

[5Wolves]

What is this if we could play God stuff ?

That's often the argument that is presented against PAS.

Let me ask you this..........What does the written word of God say about this ?
Blessings
Jim

What does the scripture say about terminal illness and loss of dignity? If the body is the temple of God and we are the caretakers our life long, show me the scripture where God says that temple should be destroyed by pain and ravaged by disease until it gives out because it isn't strong enough to endure the ravaging anymore.

As I said, I've not had much of an opportunity, nor has the Lord told me to do so in the cases I have witnessed of people dying in my presence. However, I have the authority in Christ to do so, when the Spirit says, "Go!"

And that is your faith that tells you that. But thus far the Spirit has remained mute to that mission you presume he could send you on.

I've watched people die of terminal illness. Terminal meaning no thing in medical science can heal or cure what ails.
In the presence of an omnipresent all mighty God these suffering people are ravaged by their disease. Suffer excruciating pain, lose their dignity when they're put in diapers and finally administered liquid morphine so as to effect a slow death with a scheduled increase in dosage. This so as to not have that administration qualify as physician assisted suicide, largely because it is administered either by a care giver or Hospice nurse, but so as to affect the same thing. Physician assisted, via the vehicle of liquid morphine, death. Not natural death, but a liquid administration to that end.

Someone who is going to die unless God intervenes is worthy of deciding they want peace rather than suffering beyond what we can imagine. Just to make a point that their own dignity isn't as important as is dying like that while God watches.

 

[aha]

I really don't understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate?

There is a new law/ proposal.
People posted against it.
You asked for suggestion for those against the new law/proposal what to do instead.

Am just trying to shift back the question: what is the merit or demerit of the new law/proposal instead?

Maybe am just trying to avoid to give a suggestion : )
I have suggestions…..though because I think more question will come in … thus, I shifted back the question : )

 

[aha]

That's often the argument that is presented against PAS.
What does the scripture say about terminal illness and loss of dignity? If the body is the temple of God and we are the caretakers our life long, show me the scripture where God says that temple should be destroyed by pain and ravaged by disease until it gives out because it isn't strong enough to endure the ravaging anymore.


And that is your faith that tells you that. But thus far the Spirit has remained mute to that mission you presume he could send you on.

I've watched people die of terminal illness. Terminal meaning no thing in medical science can heal or cure what ails.
In the presence of an omnipresent all mighty God these suffering people are ravaged by their disease. Suffer excruciating pain, lose their dignity when they're put in diapers and finally administered liquid morphine so as to effect a slow death with a scheduled increase in dosage. This so as to not have that administration qualify as physician assisted suicide, largely because it is administered either by a care giver or Hospice nurse, but so as to affect the same thing. Physician assisted, via the vehicle of liquid morphine, death. Not natural death, but a liquid administration to that end.

Someone who is going to die unless God intervenes is worthy of deciding they want peace rather than suffering beyond what we can imagine. Just to make a point that their own dignity isn't as important as is dying like that while God watches.

Yes, of course there is "merit" in the new law/ proposal....

I would compare it to Divorce: when the relationship failed, it will just be more pain and misery if the marriage will continue....it has it's "merit" with man's wisdom....

Although:
Is Divorce:

a Divine Law
or Law of Man with Divine Authority
as I see it: Divorce is Law of Man with Divine Authority....​

Saying "Divorce" is a Natural Law or right will be pushing too far....
or saying "Divorce" is against Divine Law will be pushing too far...

Now: with the "right to die with dignity"...

Saying it is a "Natural law/ right" is pushing too far I think..
Will it displeases God, am not sure..... will it give a good example to fellowman: I won't judge....​

BUT.... my point: Man can make laws : legal rights

 

[Euphemia]

And that is your faith that tells you that. But thus far the Spirit has remained mute to that mission you presume he could send you on.

He is never mute.

I've watched people die of terminal illness. Terminal meaning no thing in medical science can heal or cure what ails.

I'm so glad that we don't have to depend on medical science. We have a Healer who says He heals all our diseases.

Someone who is going to die unless God intervenes is worthy of deciding they want peace rather than suffering beyond what we can imagine. Just to make a point that their own dignity isn't as important as is dying like that while God watches.

Jesus has suffered beyond what anyone can imagine.

 

[5Wolves]

There is absolutely no comparison between divorce and terminal illness and right to die.

Yes, of course there is "merit" in the new law/ proposal....

I would compare it to Divorce: when the relationship failed, it will just be more pain and misery if the marriage will continue....it has it's "merit" with man's wisdom....

Although:
Is Divorce:

a Divine Law
or Law of Man with Divine Authority
as I see it: Divorce is Law of Man with Divine Authority....​

Saying "Divorce" is a Natural Law or right will be pushing too far....
or saying "Divorce" is against Divine Law will be pushing too far...

Now: with the "right to die with dignity"...

Saying it is a "Natural law/ right" is pushing too far I think..
Will it displeases God, am not sure..... will it give a good example to fellowman: I won't judge....​

BUT.... my point: Man can make laws : legal rights

 

[ASUK]

He is never mute.

On this subject it appears to be the case. People are meant to die.

I'm so glad that we don't have to depend on medical science. We have a Healer who says He heals all our diseases.

So you never go to a doctor?

Jesus has suffered beyond what anyone can imagine.

That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same. Jesus suffered for a specific reason. It was not to show how tough he was at the end of his life. People do not have to suffer unnecessarily when they are dying.

 

[Grant Melville]

It should depend on how much they are suffering.

I don't think so, because God doesn't allow us to undergo testing without giving us the grace to bear it. He never allows us to be completely overwhelmed. He will always bring us through, and give us what we need to overcome.

 

[5Wolves]

He is never mute.

I didn't say he was.

I'm so glad that we don't have to depend on medical science. We have a Healer who says He heals all our diseases.

You're a Christian Scientist?

Jesus has suffered beyond what anyone can imagine.

And he chose to let himself die.

 

[Grant Melville]

Well if God doesn't want it to happen then he will stop it.

That really puts our own responsibility quite out of the window, doesn't it? Should I continue in sin, that grace may abound? I can do things that are not the will of God, and He won't strike me down. It's a question of doing what is honouring to God, and leaving the matter of our life or death with Him alone is honouring to Him. That is His right, and we must respect the rights of divine Persons.

 

[Grant Melville]

And with that, the right to die under certain circumstances. Surely God doesn't want us to live out our last moments in agonizing pain and misery.

No believer needs to live out their last moments in misery. There might be bodily suffering, but we get grace to overcome even the worst extremes of that. There's the blessed anticipation too of being with the Lord - surely that should sustain each one of us?

 

[Grant Melville]

I've not had much of an opportunity, but that doesn't mean I do not have the authority of Christ to raise the dead, because I do, and so does every Spirit-filled Christian.

Perhaps this is going off-topic a bit, but I think I would be doing a believer in the Lord Jesus a dreadful disservice if I brought them back to life. I would be taking them from where they were with the Lord Jesus, back to this world. I would be taking them away from something which is far better. If I could do it, I wouldn't.

Well, that's just my view.

 

[Apologia]

If someone is terminally ill and suffering then it should be their choice to end their life.

You're kidding right? Are we all not terminally ill because of the fall?