No one over 40 (maybe even 30) would ask that question... the decline of the US is immeasurable.
Caesar’s Laws
- Thread starter SparkleEyes
- Start date
Perhaps. But even so, I ask it earnestly.
More in lines of moral standards set by Bible.. There are certain things which are not laid out in black and white.. For example, smoking pot! However, the moral standards governing these things are clearly laid out in black and white..
The men that wrote these didn't always submit to authority.
Answer me this. Should the Jews have submitted to the authority of Hitler?
I think we need to use our heads here. We should not submit to evil.
This still doesn't seem like it could be the meaning, especially with federal and state governments contradicting each other.
And what about false laws? Frederic Bastiat wrote a very short book called "The Law" where he divided the differences between true laws and bad laws. An example is if a individuals cannot steal, neither can government, yet he suggests they do via legal plunder. And especially if government is made up of people, where does the line divide between what they can do and what we cannot do?
There has to be something much more to it than "If the government says it, we ought to obey it" even when confronting something less extreme than Naziism or Communism.
I think we should be honest even if the government is dishonest. Early Christians lived under the Roman rule, which was both corrupted and inhuman towards Christians, but as far as I know they never attempted a revolt or some sort of social disobedience.
I don't know about them revolting, but there was certainly disobedience, and for great reason. For instance, the early Christians saved many of the discarded infants who were left to die or lined up as sacrifices. This was deliberately against Roman law.
It can become a very tricky subject to dissect because there are so many corners to evaluate.
Peter and Paul both committed civil disobedience very specifically when they were forbidden to preach. Acts 5:29 "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men" Yet both of them as well as Christ submitted to public execution when they had every opportunity to incite rebellion.
I think there's a tension here that's important to investigate. On the one side, yes "We must obey God rather than men" on the other side, can you really make a case that Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17 have no bearing on the modern Christian life at all?
It seems unbalanced to be quick to decry the evil in government without acknowledging the evil in ourselves and our own need for accountability.
Yes, but that's still in line with my opinion on this topic. I think we must obey our governments in everything that doesn't contravene our Christian principles. Discarding infants is certainly against our beliefs about the sanctity of life. However, I am pretty sure that early Christians did not cease to pay their taxes, despite the fact that those taxes were being used to persecute and execute Christians, among other things.
You are missing the point and don't understand that part of the Bible. Just because we don't agree with a law doesn't mean we are allowed to disregard it. And, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.
Just because I disagree with the law doesn't mean I can disregard it. I would be hauled off by armed henchmen if I didn't. When did I ever imply that I didn't pay taxes? I just called it theft when I have to pay taxes towards evil things. I would not voluntarily pay taxes to fund evil things. I do however have no problem paying basic taxes for legitimate things.
I do think that a lot of Christians read this particular scripture and use it as an excuse to be apathetic. Some even feel good about themselves when they write that tax check that's going to fund evil.
Everyone's points are understandable. It's a shame how confusing the world is becoming.
That's an interesting one, I saw something in a commentary a while back that indicated it might be sorcery, that the Greek word translated sorcery is related to pharmaceuticals. I've been meaning to study it more but I forgot until now.
Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
The "authorities" have been set by God to stop the spread of evil. As long as the "authorities" are not against God,s laws which were set before man's laws we should obey them. The "authority" is not in a person, but in an office set by God. Once that person leaves office that authority stays. The authority was never in a person but in the office that person held. We are to pray for those in office so we might live a quiet life on earth. I think what we have missed is the fact when we know someone in office is not doing Godly things, and using devilish wisdom, we are not suppose to pray to God to them Godly Wisdom so we might live quiet lives. That would be the same as praying to God to give the devil Godly Wisdom!!! We are to pray to remove them from office not keep them there. There are many kinds of prayer, we should bind the powers of darkness from operating from these positions and pray for their removal.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
The "authorities" have been set by God to stop the spread of evil. As long as the "authorities" are not against God,s laws which were set before man's laws we should obey them. The "authority" is not in a person, but in an office set by God. Once that person leaves office that authority stays. The authority was never in a person but in the office that person held. We are to pray for those in office so we might live a quiet life on earth. I think what we have missed is the fact when we know someone in office is not doing Godly things, and using devilish wisdom, we are not suppose to pray to God to them Godly Wisdom so we might live quiet lives. That would be the same as praying to God to give the devil Godly Wisdom!!! We are to pray to remove them from office not keep them there. There are many kinds of prayer, we should bind the powers of darkness from operating from these positions and pray for their removal.