Conditions For Salvation

[LysanderShapiro]

Agreed. I can not think of anything else to add to our conversation on this subject so I am going back out of it now and leave it the rest of you.

Bless you.

As exhausting as it has been trying to keep up with each comment and each point within the comment and trying to respond with as much clarity as I can, I enjoyed this discussion with you and gang.

Let's keep one another in each others' prayers.

God bless you, Major.

 

[Major]

As exhausting as it has been trying to keep up with each comment and each point within the comment and trying to respond with as much clarity as I can, I enjoyed this discussion with you and gang.

Let's keep one another in each others' prayers.

God bless you, Major.

As time goes by I know that we will have the opportunity to discuss more and more wonderful things! BUT I really do believe we have worn this one out because we are just repeating what has already been said.

 

[Mr. Darby]

Whew! That was quite a debate!

 

[Major]

As exhausting as it has been trying to keep up with each comment and each point within the comment and trying to respond with as much clarity as I can, I enjoyed this discussion with you and gang.

Let's keep one another in each others' prayers.

God bless you, Major.

Oh my.........He has blessed me so much in my life that I could not possibly put it all down to be read at one time.
I should have been dead along time ago and in many different ways. It is only by God's grace do you read these words I place down today.

At 3 years old, I opened the back door of my fathers car and fell out of the car onto Hy 50 in Winter Garden Fl. I rolled under the front end of the car behind my dad's. The driver was the head nurse at Orlando Regional Hospital. My head ended up touching her left front wheel. She wrapped my head in hear smock and drove me 5 miles to the hospital. The doctor there said he does not know how many stiches he put into my head. GOD WAS IN CONTROLE.

At 7 years old I was hit from behind and snapped my head back so hard it slipped 3 vertabras and I was I centimeter from death by a broken neck. GOD WAS IN CONTROLE.

At 18 years old, a drunk ran into me head first and destroyed both cars. I walked away without a single scratch. GOD WAS IN CONTROLE.

At 20 I fell into a bottomless hole of water in Fort Polk La. and if Johnny Wright had not looked back at the very moment I went under, and ran back and pulled me up, I would have drowned. GOD WAS IN CONTROLE.

At 21 years old, I had a man as scared as I was point his weapon straight at my face and pull the trigger. His weapon mis-fired, but my didn't. GOD WAS IN CONTROLE.

I could go on and on, and everyone of us who is born again could do the same thing, but all I am saying is that I have lead a blessed life now for a long time and I thank God for His protection.

 

[Mr. Darby]

That is a wonderful testimony of God's loving care, Major. Often we fail to realize just how much we owe Him. I like to hear testimonies like this. Our God is Wonderful!

 

[Glomung]

Hello Major,
Sounds like you've played coin toss with the Grim Reaper almost as many times as I have.
At times it makes me wonder what God has been keeping me around for.

 

[Major]

Hello Major,
Sounds like you've played coin toss with the Grim Reaper almost as many times as I have.
At times it makes me wonder what God has been keeping me around for.

Absolutely sir, and there is so much more that if I wasn't a Christian I would just stay under the bed.

 

[KingJ]

Thanks for sharing Major. I can't think of any reason God would take good servants to heaven early unless they really wanted to go. God sees you as sweet incense everyday you living .

Wow LS, your humility in discussion can teach us all something. Anyone doubting that different denominations can't get on must come read this thread.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Thanks for sharing Major. I can't think of any reason God would take good servants to heaven early unless they really wanted to go. God sees you as sweet incense everyday you living .

Wow LS, your humility in discussion can teach us all something. Anyone doubting that different denominations can't get on must come read this thread.

Believe you me, if I showed humility in this discussion, it was only because I was encouraged by you guys (but of course, not discrediting the Holy Spirit). But I really do appreciate the encouragement.

 

[Intojoy]

Indeed, I believe that the Blood of Christ has payed for my sins. This was His gift of grace. But I don't believe the only means of accepting this and receiving salvation is through faith alone. I dare not contradict the Word of God.

Ask God to go easy on me? In other words, ask for mercy? Yes--we should pray for mercy and forgiveness of our sins everyday. I certainly wouldn't suggest that we not ask forgiveness. Even though I know he forgives, this doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing this.

God owes it to me? How does God owe it to me--or any of us for that matter? We are not owed gifts. But to turn this gift away--especially when he wants us to receive it, would be a mistake. My faith and what I pray to do each day in the name of my faith is what I owe Him.

I'm a sinner. I fall. I can't imagine going through another day without being with God. I can't even imagine how he loves me or HOW he can when I'm a poor excuse for child of His. But He does. I owe Him everything.

I'm wrapping this up...or at least trying to slow this down since I'm having trouble keeping up with all of the responses, but I want you to have the last word.

There are more than two hundred places in the New Testament where the condition for salvation is spelled out, and in all these, cases faith or belief is given as the one and only condition.

One must believe that Jesus has accomplished the salvation work on one's behalf. To be saved, one must believe not just that He died, but that He died for one's own sins. If one believes that Yeshua the Messiah died for his sins, that presupposes that one has confessed that he is a sinner. If Yeshua died for one's sins, obviously it means that he is a sinner. So one must believe that Yeshua died for his sins as his substitute, was buried and rose again, and therefore has provided salvation. Thus, one trusts Yeshua for his salvation.

This is the condition of salvation: faith must be placed in the Messiah as one's substitute for and as one's Savior from the penalty of sin.

First the word “faith” is used as “conviction that something is true.” Secondly, faith is used as “trust.” Thirdly, faith is used as “persuaded,” and it is stronger than mere opinion, though it is weaker than foreknowledge. Fourthly, faith is used as “belief based upon the facts of knowledge” (Rom. 10:14). And fifth, faith must have an object. The object of faith is God, while the content of faith is the death of the Messiah for one's sins, His burial and Resurrection.

If we are saved because of our faith then we aren't saved by what our faith is in. We are saved thru believing in the finished work not because we believe the finished work. The work of God saves and we receive the benefit of that work by trusting that that work alone is sufficient payment in the eyes of God our Father to satisfy His requirement for our sins, that payment is the blood of the only begotten Son of God.
Indeed my brothers and sisters the blood of Messiah is of infinite value.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

There are more than two hundred places in the New Testament where the condition for salvation is spelled out, and in all these, cases faith or belief is given as the one and only condition.

One must believe that Jesus has accomplished the salvation work on one's behalf. To be saved, one must believe not just that He died, but that He died for one's own sins. If one believes that Yeshua the Messiah died for his sins, that presupposes that one has confessed that he is a sinner. If Yeshua died for one's sins, obviously it means that he is a sinner. So one must believe that Yeshua died for his sins as his substitute, was buried and rose again, and therefore has provided salvation. Thus, one trusts Yeshua for his salvation.

This is the condition of salvation: faith must be placed in the Messiah as one's substitute for and as one's Savior from the penalty of sin.

First the word “faith” is used as “conviction that something is true.” Secondly, faith is used as “trust.” Thirdly, faith is used as “persuaded,” and it is stronger than mere opinion, though it is weaker than foreknowledge. Fourthly, faith is used as “belief based upon the facts of knowledge” (Rom. 10:14). And fifth, faith must have an object. The object of faith is God, while the content of faith is the death of the Messiah for one's sins, His burial and Resurrection.

If we are saved because of our faith then we aren't saved by what our faith is in. We are saved thru believing in the finished work not because we believe the finished work. The work of God saves and we receive the benefit of that work by trusting that that work alone is sufficient payment in the eyes of God our Father to satisfy His requirement for our sins, that payment is the blood of the only begotten Son of God.
Indeed my brothers and sisters the blood of Messiah is of infinite value.

Sorry, Intojoy, but we've already come full circle. I think it's time to put this one to bed for now.

 

[Intojoy]

No need to apologize.

But let all who take refuge in You be glad, Let them ever sing for joy; And may You shelter them, That those who love Your name may exult in You. (Psalms 5:11 NASB)

 

[th1bill]

People keep saying saved as if it means one will enter the kingdom of God. That is one big assumption.


To enter the kingdom of God one needs to walk as Jesus walked. The only way one can walk as Jesus walked is to have the indwelling of God.


The Holy Spirit teaches, and gives one the grace to walk as Jesus walked.


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God's loveis truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


One has to live the whole Word of God to enter into the kingdom of God.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Where God’s makes a home is the kingdom of God.


(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

Giver,
I do dislike pursuing folks but it appears that you are not going to seek to engage me but a friend has led me to your post and so I begin. Our friend has suggested that you seem to be a Works/Salvation believer and in reading post, I agree.

When we study the Whole Bible, versus, the New Testament only we see that Father Abraham, for only one of many, was, though imperfect, saved by the grace of God. Abraham went so far astray that he gave up Sara to the King of Egypt to, he thought, preserve his life instead of trusting God to care for him.

In Romans 3:10 and 23 we find the key verses that explain to us that none of us are, even, worthy of life, let alone Heaven and yet when we look at the first three chapters of the Christian Bible we find that the Imperfect man, because he lusted for Eve more than he sought after God, He had created, was for fellowship and to return His love. No... this is not in the formation of the lines of text but rather, is there, between the lines and is taught by the Holy Spirit that indwells every Saved Man and Woman.

Now, when we read Matt. 22:1-14 we see a truth that just floors every legalist ever born, not all in the Kingdom are members of the Bride of the Christ. I suggest to you, after better than 23 years of study on the matter, that those that seek hard after Jesus are members of the Bride but those that tend to stumble, a bit more than the rest of us, are the Guests described. Now, I believe it important to notice one thing about a wedding... there will be my granddaughter and there will be her bo getting married but there will be about 150 of us guests there, this coming March. I like manor, I have presumed that there will be many of the guests at the wedding of the Bride in Heaven. In like manor, we understand that none will venture into Heaven further than the Great White Judgment location that are not saved. That makes the guests, saved.

God bless, my friend.

 

[Giver]

Giver,
I do dislike pursuing folks but it appears that you are not going to seek to engage me but a friend has led me to your post and so I begin. Our friend has suggested that you seem to be a Works/Salvation believer and in reading post, I agree.

When we study the Whole Bible, versus, the New Testament only we see that Father Abraham, for only one of many, was, though imperfect, saved by the grace of God. Abraham went so far astray that he gave up Sara to the King of Egypt to, he thought, preserve his life instead of trusting God to care for him.

In Romans 3:10 and 23 we find the key verses that explain to us that none of us are, even, worthy of life, let alone Heaven and yet when we look at the first three chapters of the Christian Bible we find that the Imperfect man, because he lusted for Eve more than he sought after God, He had created, was for fellowship and to return His love. No... this is not in the formation of the lines of text but rather, is there, between the lines and is taught by the Holy Spirit that indwells every Saved Man and Woman.

Now, when we read Matt. 22:1-14 we see a truth that just floors every legalist ever born, not all in the Kingdom are members of the Bride of the Christ. I suggest to you, after better than 23 years of study on the matter, that those that seek hard after Jesus are members of the Bride but those that tend to stumble, a bit more than the rest of us, are the Guests described. Now, I believe it important to notice one thing about a wedding... there will be my granddaughter and there will be her bo getting married but there will be about 150 of us guests there, this coming March. I like manor, I have presumed that there will be many of the guests at the wedding of the Bride in Heaven. In like manor, we understand that none will venture into Heaven further than the Great White Judgment location that are not saved. That makes the guests, saved.

God bless, my friend.

A Christian walks as Jesus walked.


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God's loveis truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


You have every right to believe what you want to believe. But remember the good fruits produced by one manifest having the indwelling of God. Those fruits/works are the result of God’s will.


Jesus told us how we are to love him, and he also told us that those who don’t love him would not come with him into his kingdom.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[th1bill]

A Christian walks as Jesus walked.


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God's loveis truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


You have every right to believe what you want to believe. But remember the good fruits produced by one manifest having the indwelling of God. Those fruits/works are the result of God’s will.


Jesus told us how we are to love him, and he also told us that those who don’t love him would not come with him into his kingdom.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Giver,
You did not address what I had to say. All you have done here is to rehash the post I addressed and I'm not going to post mine again, rather, I ask you to read the post and to respond. Don't be rude like this and folks will not become upset with you. Continue to be rude and I will understand why you cry about other folks replies.

 

[naomanos]

Giver,
You did not address what I had to say. All you have done here is to rehash the post I addressed and I'm not going to post mine again, rather, I ask you to read the post and to respond. Don't be rude like this and folks will not become upset with you. Continue to be rude and I will understand why you cry about other folks replies.

This is typical of Giver's replies. He will post the same scripture over and over with the incorrect interpretation of it. He will say that he has been sin free for 40 years and that Jesus has physically sat down next to him and taught him. That once you receive the knowledge of truth and you sin, you are no longer heaven bound and there is no repentance for you.

I know all this because he used to frequent another Christian forum and would say all these things. He left the forums several months ago saying that God has said that his time on those forums was over.

 

[Panda]

This is typical of Giver's replies. He will post the same scripture over and over with the incorrect interpretation of it. He will say that he has been sin free for 40 years and that Jesus has physically sat down next to him and taught him. That once you receive the knowledge of truth and you sin, you are no longer heaven bound and there is no repentance for you.

I know all this because he used to frequent another Christian forum and would say all these things. He left the forums several months ago saying that God has said that his time on those forums was over.

There is a point where that will be allowed, and there is a point where it will no longer be tolerated if it becomes accusation against specific members. I would ask that you do not speak for another member though.

Giver, to make you fully aware of our rules here, it is not permitted to raise accusations against the members here. This site is a friendly, Christian only environment, though we have occasionally permitted non-believers who are seeking answers. In general, we expect polite and friendly discussions and attitudes. If you need clarification, contact me privately and I'll be happy to go over the site rules with you.

 

[Giver]

Giver,
You did not address what I had to say. All you have done here is to rehash the post I addressed and I'm not going to post mine again, rather, I ask you to read the post and to respond. Don't be rude like this and folks will not become upset with you. Continue to be rude and I will understand why you cry about other folks replies.

I have read your post and responded to what I believe people make of that verse.


Why don’t you give your version?

 

[th1bill]

I have read your post and responded to what I believe people make of that verse.


Why don’t you give your version?

Giver, in another string I asked you to open a string for this discussion but you did not even bother to reply to the suggestion, that I recall. I had to run you down, like some sort of Blood Hound and that is rude. Now you are refusing to address my post here, other than to insist I play by your rules? Conversation is a give and take endeavor and is not keyed to 0glorify either of the speakers.

You stated in the other string that you were oft mistreated on other forums and I have already, in this string stated that you are baiting me and that it looks like you may have been guilty of this same, errant, behavior on the other forums. If you choose to climb down from that White Stallion and to, then, remove the Self Righteous Chip from your left shoulder there is a very educational conversation to be had here.

I will pray for what your associate, naomanos, has clued me to because you have shown the signs of being a member of the New Covenant Holiness movement in the first posts I read in the other string and now, naomanos has confirmed what I had concluded, that places you in danger of judgment and I wish that on no man.
You are not the first to slam me with the verses you have singled out but just as the first person and all the others since, you need a class in Hermeneutics and a very strong dose of relationship with the God that created us all. Moses walked, every day, all day long, with God, right there with him and still he found what Paul wrote in Romans 3 to be true of him. And you're that much a better man than Paul?

I will sin, right here, and give credit where it is due; You have made the standard ruse of your errant theology into a Whopper the Burger King might never be able to match if you do hold to the idea that you have not sinned in 40 years or more. I know the position that your click dwells on but I also know that it cannot be supported with scripture and therefore I know from the report, if it's true that you do not believe that 1 mile, accidentally or intentionally, over the Speed Limit to be a sin but the scriptures do teach that, in both cases, it is sin.

Now, I addressed you, in my first post, here, with a scripturally referenced post and this conversatation goes no further until you come back to earth and respond, in Christian, manor 5o that post.

 

[th1bill]

This is typical of Giver's replies. He will post the same scripture over and over with the incorrect interpretation of it. He will say that he has been sin free for 40 years and that Jesus has physically sat down next to him and taught him. That once you receive the knowledge of truth and you sin, you are no longer heaven bound and there is no repentance for you.

I know all this because he used to frequent another Christian forum and would say all these things. He left the forums several months ago saying that God has said that his time on those forums was over.

Thanks for the heads up because all I had was the leading of the Spirit and in most circles,today, that is considered feeble and has gotten me booted in the past. (Not from here.)