Confession
- Thread starter Flavio
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I would also have a problem with giving that power over to another outside of God. That's why the idea is that the priest is a vehicle of God, not a replacement.
Some have broken their vows of silence, but very few. I wouldn't worry about that.
Why do you say that out of curiosity?
I typed 8, should be 18 for the Matthew verse…
I posted the verses as I understand the basis of the Sacrament, for clarity, and not necessarily what I believe or agree with...
As I understand the Sacrament, they are indeed connected, but that will be doctrinal discussion then : )
John 20:21-23New King James Version (NKJV)
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
Matthew 16:19New King James Version (NKJV)
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[a] in heaven.”
Matthew 18:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
I meant no disrespect. Maybe the reason I can't see a connection is because I have no background in Catholicism? Maybe because I'm known to be a bit dense at times?
Either way, I could never gather the concept of a sacrament of confession from these verses. And whenever I ask a Catholic to explain how their practices are found in the Bible, I get long and complex answers that STILL do not make sense to me. And I try...really, I do....to see what it is they are saying. But I generally end up just shaking my head in total confusion.
Well...still...being considered a vehicle as opposed to being considered a replacement does not remove the fact that I'm in the same dangerous situation of giving power to an equally flawed human over my life. Before I could trust anyone with my confidences, I would have to observe them closely for a long time.
It is my perceived understanding that a priest is considered too holy for one to actually be close friends with them. I may be wrong about that and maybe priests ARE considered to be friends with many people. I don't have a Catholic background and Catholicism perplexes me.
I understand. I wasn't Catholic forever myself. In fact, I've been a Protestant far longer than I've been a Catholic. I understand the concerns and misunderstandings. Though I'd argue they're misunderstandings.
I can honestly say that has never crossed my mind as a concern. We tend to trust our friends and family with our problems, are flaws, etc. It's true that when going to confession, you may be bringing up secrets that you wouldn't even share with family. However, and I don't say this as an insult in any way, but the reason why some people choose not to go to confession is either because they don't know what it is (it's proper name is actually Reconciliation because you're reconciling with God), because they're too embarrassed or ashamed to actually vocally say what they've done and feel like God would never forgive them for it, or because they don't think they have to do it because God loves them and therefore they don't have to apologize.
I don't know where you got the idea that a priest is too holy to have close friends. I've been to parties, house warmings, galas, etc. where the priest is social, has regular conversations, was dancing, and even being just as goofy as anyone.
In fact, here's a picture of a priest I know doing one of the Charlie Brown dances at the gala I went to earlier this year...
Priests, while thy are concentrated to God, they aren't Stoics who have no humanity. They are regular men who simply devoted themselves to God and vowed to poverty, chastity, and obedience. Some are cloisters like Carmelites and some are out doing service for others like Franciscans.
Where did you get the idea that they couldn't be close to people?
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Am from a Catholic background : )
On a practical sense….with the assumption that: one of the reasons for a person anxiety is something bothers them that is against reason…
What is more perplexing, people will pay for a psychiatrist to get their mind at ease/give them peace of mind?
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I don't really think any of those reasons are why I would not go to confession/reconciliation with a priest. I can only think of one sin in my life I would be too embarrassed to vocalize to someone; and while I feel shame over it still, I do recognize and experience forgiveness from God for it. And I believe the fact that God loves me does not mean that I don't have to apologize when I hurt someone.
It is just really hard for me to understand why it would be helpful to bring a third-party into a situation when I have committed sin against another human. I should apologize to that person. If I sin against God, it is between Him and me.
I have read other posts from people trying to describe the reasons for confession to a priest; but the reasons seem weak to me and don't really seem to be backed by Scripture.
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. Thank you!
Maybe I got the idea that they are considered too holy for everyday concerns due to conversation with a Greek Orthodox Christian. Whenever I questioned this person about the need for a priest in the first place, he really got puffed up and defensive that I would even think a priest could do wrong, because after all, "he is a holy man!" That is exactly what he said. And I was asking nicely...but I got the attitude from him that they could not, in any way, give thought that a priest may do something unholy. Maybe Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy are different. I admit I do not know much about either, other than they seem alien to me (not meaning insult by the word alien...just that I'm not familiar with it).
I don't know what to think about the picture of the dancing priest. He seems to be enjoying himself, but I think the robes get in the way.
Once I decided to confess things that I did because it was very hard for me to have peace and to fully understand that God forgave me (it was just between me and God). I had to think about those things again and again and I couldn’t move on. It really helped me when I asked an older woman from my church for meeting and told her about it, than we prayed and she encouraged me.
I would like to do this confession more often but as it is not usual in our church and people here are quite distant, it’s hard for me to do it and I have many excuses for not doing it. James 5:16
Yes, I tried paying psychiatry (before I was Christian) for peace of mind...no satisfaction there! My deepest peace of mind over my sins has come in confessing to God and learning to accept His help to overcome them.The hardest thing for me to do sometimes is to forgive myself. And sometimes talking to a friend about some sin I can't move on with has helped in realizing that forgiving my own self is part of experiencing forgiveness from God. But I am learning...I am learning.
You are quite welcome.
The idea of Confession from an outsider's point of view does raise a lot of questions: "Why go to a priest when I can just go to God?" "What does the priest have to do with it? It was him who I offended, it was someone else and God." "When going to Confession, am I raising up the priest to a level he isn't and downplaying God?" "Why go to Confession if Christ already paid the price for my sins?"
Some of these are doctrinal arguments against it and some are just from not understanding what Confession is.
If the priest was a third-party, then I would agree there is no point. And along with that, we SHOULD always bring our sins directly to God. There is a specific prayer that is said after the confessor makes his confession called the Act of Contrition. It is a prayer to God expressing sorrow for offending Him, worshiping Him for His forgiveness and love, and asking for guidance and help to never sin again (even though of course we will sin again). The reason why this prayer is said to God and not the priest is because we aren't asking the priest for forgiveness, we're asking God. The priest is there in persona Christi -- being sent out by Christ to do His will, just as the Father sent Christ out. This is how we understand John 20:21-23.
Not telling you to believe what I believe, but I hope this does at least bring some understanding.
Haha, to begin, the robe is a traditional Franciscan habit. He put the hood up to add to the humor (usually they just wear them down unless it's cold outside).
In a way, a priest IS a holy man, but only in the sense that we are all called to be holy. The Greek Orthodox guy you spoke to isn't wrong in saying that. Priests are consecrated to God, dedicate themselves to a life of Christian service, etc. But this doesn't mean they are now no longer human beings. They aren't impeccable -- they sin just like any of us, make mistakes, etc. I agree with the Greek Orthodox guy when he said they are needed. People who don't agree with the idea of priests wouldn't agree because it isn't associated with their doctrine. That's just one of the differences we hold.
But naturally, priests can, have, and do things that are indeed unholy. We could go to the extremes of priests teaching blatant heresies or the child abuse scandals. Or we could even go to the mild side where a priest may have invited liturgical abuses like only having "Eucharist ministers" distribute communion, etc. Priests are not perfect and require confession just like everyone. In fact, Pope St. John Paul II was widely known for going to confession every week. Big or small sins, everyone still sins, and the point isn't to embarrass, but to reunite with God.