Contradictions In The Bible???

The reason I said myth is because some people are fine with the bible not being literally true in some places, I also said stories because that's also how some understand the bible, as a narrative. I wanted to describe some of the least popular ways believers can believe in the bible but still be believers.

So I have a question, John 3:1-21, is this a myth or a story and how does a person decide which it is?



After reading the posts here I will try and clarify what I have come to learn to be the difference between literal and interpretation:

Literal is the Old Testament says what God wanted to say, Num 23:19, be it in the form of history, poetry, wisdom or prophecy and He added the New Testament with the same intent,

Interpretation is not of/from men 2 Pet 1:20, but rather we have the Holy Spirit within us to interpretate the Bible for us 1 john 2:27,

so the Holy Spirit considers the Bible to be the literal Word of God and He gives us the meaning from the story, it's called the gift of teaching, and when the teaching is from the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit inside of us is telling us it's true, if the teaching is not from the Holy Spirit then He is telling us it's false, that is the testimony Paul was talking about in 1 Cor 2:10-16,

and finally 2 Tim 3:16, all in the Greek means ALL, from the first century the Church has been in agreement that Paul was including the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Blessings,

Gene
 
I think studying how many times Jesus references the Old Testament in the Gospels would clear up any question about 'myth'. Either Jesus is the 'way the truth and the life'; or He is a liar. I am going with option (A).

If you don't believe Christ-well what's the point?
 
Well to say that the Bible is even partly mythical could be dangerous ground; do you agree?

I guess the point I was making is that people will believe what they want too anyway; we've been selling a 'watered down' Christ and God in the USA for so long now; who still believes that God can AND still does miracles? I think there are very few. A soul truly accepting salvation is a miracle in itself, is it not?

So to entertain people who think the Bible is 'mythical' is a lost cause.
 
I'm sorry, but I can't let this one go by:

The parables of Jesus are myths?

Jesus taught in Matt 13 that His speaking in parables was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Isa 6:9, He then went on to say Matt 13:16, 17 that t was for us to understand them and He went on to explain the parable and gave us the tools in His explanation to understand the rest.

If we say the parables are just myths then that relegates Isa 6:9 to a myth which is prophecy and it's by prophecy that God chose to verify His Word like no other religious writers are able to do, so if Isa is a myth the Ez 37 must be a myth and Israel is not in her homeland and all of the problems today between the Jews and the Islamists are just myths, why... we can even say 9/11 was a myth.............:confused:

Gene
 
I kinda feel that Rev3 has kinda stepped in something he didn't intend here. He said that he didn't read the Bible as a mythology, why is this still being hammered? I've heard some analysis of certain Biblical stories that imply they might be myths, but that's a fairly unpopular interpretation, usually associated with very specific stories (Jonah comes to mind). What would it mean if some stories were myths? Well, really not a lot. There are in fact hundreds of scrolls and stories that were not canonized in the production of our Bible. Most were not permitted because they were either obvious mythologies, disagreed with established writings, or had unclear origins. If it turned out that a few stories were myths, then it just means that the counsel included a scroll that shouldn't have been canonized. I don't actually think this has happened, but I don't see why it would be such a tragedy if it had.
 
I don't see anywhere where anyone is suggesting this, Mike.

rev3 appears to be saying that he defends the rights of other Christians who think the Bible contains "myths" and seems to feel comfortable that the Bible could contain errors.....I haven't seen him give any examples, let alone any concerning Christ (I'm stumped as to why).
Ill tell you why, because If I am really making a defense for all of us to believe what we choose to believe then I have to realise that my own beliefs are also subject to the argument I am making.
 
When I said that there are 33 thousands sects with all diffrent beliefs, you can see how this is true for this thread alone. It is very clear that we all have diffrent beliefs some minor and some major (depending on whos looking at it) ok lets look at the facts here, we all have access to the bible, we all have access to the spirit, we all have access to the church, so why do we all say and think diffrent things if the methodology is the same?
 
And that makes you uncomfortable, having your ideas discussed? Why?
No one is demanding you believe like them (as far as I can see) but I do see folks who are wondering why you say some of the things you do.

It's like my mythical Christian X, who arrives here and says "Some Christians say Jesus came from Venus." and refuses to discuss it, yet defends their "right" to believe this. Unusual to say the least.
What I am saying here is what I believe, I believe that we all have the right to believe what we want to believe and no one should assume that other believers are in error without a fair and balanced argument that can firstly be applied to oneself.

In response to your question for me to provide you or this thread to what I actually believe so we can have a open disscusion about it, your missing my intentions. I know allready that if I talk about or push my beliefs onto anyone we can expect more thread thumping and like I said I don't want to start that.
 
Who said the "methodology is the same"?

I don't follow you.

Ok say I have chemical A and chemical B and when I mix them they form chemical C so long as the conditions of the chemicals remain the same you will allways get C. But this form of methodology does not work with believers. You can put two christians together, in the same church, with the same bible and they both can have the same spirit, all the same chemicals but one ends up a G and the other a X.
 
I think there is a fine line in 'living by the faith of our own conscience' and stepping away into false doctrines. Quite frankly, I don't think God particularly cares about what we think; IF we are doing what he commands us to do: #1 Love, #2 OBEY (The law) and follow Him, #3 Reach out / minister to the Lost and #4 'Edify' (Rebuke, teach, train, educate, fellowship) fellow believers.

The danger is creating 'false doctrines' in our 'vain imaginations'. In my opinion.

We MUST preach the Word: AKA: the Bible as truth. If we don't, we are creating a precedent where we start to become like the Pharisees- and the one thing God really can't stand-hypocrites.
 
I see an attempt by Satan to weave myth and fable into the Christian hope from the outset, and there was solid determination by Paul to urge us to resist that. Why?

Rusty has brought to light an important question.

I humbly ask all who find, contradictions in the Bible, or don't think the Bible is literal, or see Bible stories as just myths or fables, please stop and prayerfully look at the cross, ...consider God taking on your sins individually, ...He had each one of you/us individually on His mind, ...and then remember that first love you had for Him when you were first saved...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................now, does it please you, does it make you happy to doubt God? If not, if it makes you sad, if it makes you sick, if you hate the idea of what you have been thinking, ...then you have been struck with a fiery dart from the enemy, ...he has planted that doubt in your mind, so reject it, because it's not YOUR thought, it has been placed there by the enemy, ...that's spiritual warfare.


Blessings,

Gene
 
I think there is a fine line in 'living by the faith of our own conscience' and stepping away into false doctrines. Quite frankly, I don't think God particularly cares about what we think; IF we are doing what he commands us to do: #1 Love, #2 OBEY (The law) and follow Him, #3 Reach out / minister to the Lost and #4 'Edify' (Rebuke, teach, train, educate, fellowship) fellow believers.

The danger is creating 'false doctrines' in our 'vain imaginations'. In my opinion.

We MUST preach the Word: AKA: the Bible as truth. If we don't, we are creating a precedent where we start to become like the Pharisees- and the one thing God really can't stand-hypocrites.
How do you teach another person about the truth as you understand it and at the same time leave that person in a state that they can still make up there own mind as to what the truth is?
 
Well...eternal matters are quite different than chemical reactions, IMO.

Apples and septic tanks...not the same factors at all, as I see it.
You are right because one has their reason and facts about the world and the other has their faith and personal experiences about the world, yes two very diffrent things.
 
Thinking
So you are suggesting faith is unreasonable and nonfactual?

I know plenty of scientists: they are very subjective, as are journalists and diplomats. The myth of "objectivity" is rampant in the secular world. It's intellectual shield that is utter hogwash, IMO.

I know God protects me, as He has proven it to me many times (factual) and I understand things He explains in His Word, by concrete proofs in the real world (a very reasonable thing to have!) and by trust He will continue to do so.

So....again...your idea of "methodology" in God's Way in juxtaposition or contrast to secular ways....well....I think we are coming from very different heart conditions.
Yep we are and I know that and thats the best thing about being free, I can think for myself without thinking of any condemnation of god.
 
I don't want to start a agument here but the bibles inerrancy is not important to all of us, many people don't take such a literal view of scripture

I think the trouble started in the red font above.
Aside from the statement is a logical fallacy: the premise in not all inclusive =” many people”, the conclusion is “all inclusive = “all of us”

I am on the impression also that one of the troubles in Corinth started when one part of the body tells the others “ it is not important”
1 Corinthians 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

From attack mode, now on the defensive mode.
Am on the impression as well that Apostle Paul is conservative, and his authority is being questioned by the Corinth’s liberal, new Christians who found freedom…. and yet, there are responsibilities in that freedom.
 
I think the trouble started in the red font above.
Aside from the statement is a logical fallacy: the premise in not all inclusive =” many people”, the conclusion is “all inclusive = “all of us”

I am on the impression also that one of the troubles in Corinth started when one part of the body tells the others “ it is not important”
1 Corinthians 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

From attack mode, now on the defensive mode.
Am on the impression as well that Apostle Paul is conservative, and his authority is being questioned by the Corinth’s liberal, new Christians who found freedom…. and yet, there are responsibilities in that freedom.
Unless your homer simpson, then body parts can come and go as they please. :) (good little message there, got me thinking)
 
I'm sorry, but I can't let this one go by:

The parables of Jesus are myths?

Jesus taught in Matt 13 that His speaking in parables was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Isa 6:9, He then went on to say Matt 13:16, 17 that t was for us to understand them and He went on to explain the parable and gave us the tools in His explanation to understand the rest.

If we say the parables are just myths then that relegates Isa 6:9 to a myth which is prophecy and it's by prophecy that God chose to verify His Word like no other religious writers are able to do, so if Isa is a myth the Ez 37 must be a myth and Israel is not in her homeland and all of the problems today between the Jews and the Islamists are just myths, why... we can even say 9/11 was a myth.............:confused:

Gene

Rusty briefly addressed this earlier, but I feel compelled to revisit it. The line of definition between a fable, a myth or a parable is tenuous, but a parable is a literary or oral device to make a moral point. So is a fable. In many cases, so is a myth. But the words come loaded with all sorts of baggage that get people riled up. If everyone agrees that the parables of Jesus are fictional stories created by Him for the purpose of illustrating a greater spiritual principle (and some here may not agree even with that), then why on earth is it necessary to believe that God never, ever used that same literary device in other places in His Word? Honestly, parables are such efficient teaching devices that it's hard to imagine that their use is solely confined to use by Jesus only.

One more thing: any study of the early church fathers, including such luminaries as Athanasius, who risked his life fighting the terrible Arian heresy, shows they have an innate assumption that metaphorical, figurative truth is way more important than bare, wooden literal truth. Granted, that era of Biblical interpretation carried it too far (for instance, the weird and contorted interpretations of song of Solomon that attempt to make it solely an allegory of God's love for His church), but in general, I think they were correct. If you think they were crazy, then you better start wondering about the doctrine of the Trinity, because they were the ones who fleshed it out.
Nowadays, mostly as a result of the so-called "Enlightenment", we have exactly the opposite view in the West: dead literal, wooden truth is the most important, because it's somehow more "true". Yet, to invoke my earlier illustration, the figurative, metaphorical truth of Jesus being seated at the right hand of God is far more meaningful and more revealing about the nature of God than a dry, literal image of Jesus sitting in an armchair next to God the Father. For that matter, we can say that marriage is important just because God said so, but how much more it begins to make sense (and beauty) when we see that marriage is a symbolic, earthly manifestation of Christ, the Bridegroom, and his Bride, the church. This is one of the conversations that comes up with all these girls who have worked for me, and when I point out that, just as Christ's mission is to present His bride, the church, spotless and without blemish before the throne of God at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, so it's the responsibility of their current boyfriend to do exactly the same with them. When she arrives at the end of that aisle, resplendent in her wedding dress, the groom ought to be able to proudly say that he has kept his bride unsullied and pure up to this day. In that sense, at least, he is already becoming the Christ-like head of the house, a goal that way more young men need to aspire to.

When you tell them that, instead of just saying, "keep your legs together", their eyes light up: sometimes they cry a little when the realization of this big picture takes their breath away.
That's figurative truth, and no amount of dead, literal sermonizing can take the place of it.

So I just don't understand the fear and hostility to the idea that somewhere else in the Bible, besides just in the actual words of Jesus, there may be a nice, plump, meanigful parable.

Anyway, it's back to, as my wife calls it, manning the twinkie brigade after this long weekend of respite. So you guys are gonna leave me in the dust.
Theo
 
Rusty briefly addressed this earlier, but I feel compelled to revisit it. The line of definition between a fable, a myth or a parable is tenuous, but a parable is a literary or oral device to make a moral point. So is a fable. In many cases, so is a myth. But the words come loaded with all sorts of baggage that get people riled up. If everyone agrees that the parables of Jesus are fictional stories created by Him for the purpose of illustrating a greater spiritual principle (and some here may not agree even with that), then why on earth is it necessary to believe that God never, ever used that same literary device in other places in His Word? Honestly, parables are such efficient teaching devices that it's hard to imagine that their use is solely confined to use by Jesus only.

One more thing: any study of the early church fathers, including such luminaries as Athanasius, who risked his life fighting the terrible Arian heresy, shows they have an innate assumption that metaphorical, figurative truth is way more important than bare, wooden literal truth. Granted, that era of Biblical interpretation carried it too far (for instance, the weird and contorted interpretations of song of Solomon that attempt to make it solely an allegory of God's love for His church), but in general, I think they were correct. If you think they were crazy, then you better start wondering about the doctrine of the Trinity, because they were the ones who fleshed it out.
Nowadays, mostly as a result of the so-called "Enlightenment", we have exactly the opposite view in the West: dead literal, wooden truth is the most important, because it's somehow more "true". Yet, to invoke my earlier illustration, the figurative, metaphorical truth of Jesus being seated at the right hand of God is far more meaningful and more revealing about the nature of God than a dry, literal image of Jesus sitting in an armchair next to God the Father. For that matter, we can say that marriage is important just because God said so, but how much more it begins to make sense (and beauty) when we see that marriage is a symbolic, earthly manifestation of Christ, the Bridegroom, and his Bride, the church. This is one of the conversations that comes up with all these girls who have worked for me, and when I point out that, just as Christ's mission is to present His bride, the church, spotless and without blemish before the throne of God at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, so it's the responsibility of their current boyfriend to do exactly the same with them. When she arrives at the end of that aisle, resplendent in her wedding dress, the groom ought to be able to proudly say that he has kept his bride unsullied and pure up to this day. In that sense, at least, he is already becoming the Christ-like head of the house, a goal that way more young men need to aspire to.

When you tell them that, instead of just saying, "keep your legs together", their eyes light up: sometimes they cry a little when the realization of this big picture takes their breath away.
That's figurative truth, and no amount of dead, literal sermonizing can take the place of it.

So I just don't understand the fear and hostility to the idea that somewhere else in the Bible, besides just in the actual words of Jesus, there may be a nice, plump, meanigful parable.

Anyway, it's back to, as my wife calls it, manning the twinkie brigade after this long weekend of respite. So you guys are gonna leave me in the dust.
Theo
That was writen with such love and humility, I was deeply moved by the way you spoke about how people have found meaning by taking a non literal view of parables and stories and yes maybe myths in the bible.

Thankyou for writing exactly what I wanted to say but struggled to say in all my posts.
 
Rusty briefly addressed this earlier, but I feel compelled to revisit it. The line of definition between a fable, a myth or a parable is tenuous, but a parable is a literary or oral device to make a moral point. So is a fable. In many cases, so is a myth. But the words come loaded with all sorts of baggage that get people riled up. If everyone agrees that the parables of Jesus are fictional stories created by Him for the purpose of illustrating a greater spiritual principle (and some here may not agree even with that), then why on earth is it necessary to believe that God never, ever used that same literary device in other places in His Word? Honestly, parables are such efficient teaching devices that it's hard to imagine that their use is solely confined to use by Jesus only.

One more thing: any study of the early church fathers, including such luminaries as Athanasius, who risked his life fighting the terrible Arian heresy, shows they have an innate assumption that metaphorical, figurative truth is way more important than bare, wooden literal truth. Granted, that era of Biblical interpretation carried it too far (for instance, the weird and contorted interpretations of song of Solomon that attempt to make it solely an allegory of God's love for His church), but in general, I think they were correct. If you think they were crazy, then you better start wondering about the doctrine of the Trinity, because they were the ones who fleshed it out.
Nowadays, mostly as a result of the so-called "Enlightenment", we have exactly the opposite view in the West: dead literal, wooden truth is the most important, because it's somehow more "true". Yet, to invoke my earlier illustration, the figurative, metaphorical truth of Jesus being seated at the right hand of God is far more meaningful and more revealing about the nature of God than a dry, literal image of Jesus sitting in an armchair next to God the Father. For that matter, we can say that marriage is important just because God said so, but how much more it begins to make sense (and beauty) when we see that marriage is a symbolic, earthly manifestation of Christ, the Bridegroom, and his Bride, the church. This is one of the conversations that comes up with all these girls who have worked for me, and when I point out that, just as Christ's mission is to present His bride, the church, spotless and without blemish before the throne of God at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, so it's the responsibility of their current boyfriend to do exactly the same with them. When she arrives at the end of that aisle, resplendent in her wedding dress, the groom ought to be able to proudly say that he has kept his bride unsullied and pure up to this day. In that sense, at least, he is already becoming the Christ-like head of the house, a goal that way more young men need to aspire to.

When you tell them that, instead of just saying, "keep your legs together", their eyes light up: sometimes they cry a little when the realization of this big picture takes their breath away.
That's figurative truth, and no amount of dead, literal sermonizing can take the place of it.

So I just don't understand the fear and hostility to the idea that somewhere else in the Bible, besides just in the actual words of Jesus, there may be a nice, plump, meanigful parable.

Anyway, it's back to, as my wife calls it, manning the twinkie brigade after this long weekend of respite. So you guys are gonna leave me in the dust.
Theo
You say that jesus used non literal stories such as parables to explain a deeper sense of reality. Well that made me think, if jesus is god from the OT then god does use parables and stories.
 
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