Discernment

[Major]

You are talking about writing your own bible. Is that what you mean to do?

My dear brother Saul. Do you sit and read what you are about to post to others and ask yourself if you would like to hear that said to you in the way you say it to others BEFORE you post it????

All I am saying to you IN MY OWN OPINION and certainly not in the Scriptures is that the Holy Spirit is 100% God can do what He wants to do.

John 14:17 (ESV)
"Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."

Colossians 1:27 (ESV)
"To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

1 Corinthians 12:11 (ESV)
"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills."

As all can see, I did not write my own Bible but simply posted what God has already said.

Those actual words then tell us that there are some gifts that God gives to men which are NOT in the Scriptures and listed among the 9 gifts.
I would venture to say that there are several gifts that the Holy Spirit has given to men because HE Lives in their heart and does "AS HE WILLS"
according to the written Word of God. Some of those IMO would be........
1). Celibacy.
2). A Choice of Poverty.
3). Music.
4). Craftsmanship.

I pray the Lord will bless you brother.

 

[so-so]

Now a bit of English. Verse 8 says "to one is given." One what? A pronoun refers to the last, preceding, qualified noun, and that is "profit", not "man".

Partially correct, and not in every instance.

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

The manifestation of the Spirit is GIVEN to every MAN....to ONE is GIVEN - ...

The antecedent to the word ONE is MAN. According to Strong's, the word 'profit' is a verb. Verse 8 says, "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit." The Interlinear words it, "Indeed, to whom wisdom is given through the Spirit..."

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co12.pdf

The word ONE is actually two words, "who or which, and men." The antecedent to the word ONE is not the word 'profit' but the word MAN.

Verse 7, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."

This is also confirmed by verses 9 & 10.
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

"To another" can only imply back to the man or ONE who is given.

Discerning of spirits is not a gift, it is a manifestation of the holy spirit. The spirit is a gift, the nine manifestations are part of the deal.

Also...
It is a gift because verse 4 says, "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."
These gifts or the spiritual gift of "discernment of Spirits" is manifested or "exhibited and expressed" in different ways (for different reasons) but by the same Spirit.

"And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

The word 'operations' is only used twice in the NT. Here in verse 6, and once in verse 10. it's the same word as "working"...
"To another (man - not profit!) the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"

This is what "differences of administration and diversities of operations" means...
Verse 5 and 6 indicate there are different ministries or services carried out by the Spirit that operates and works to bring about a certain effect or outcome.

 

[Lanolin]

Always understood spiritual discernment is a gift given by the spirit its not something man has of himself.

So sorry saul not sure why you try to argue it isnt. I wouldnt say its a 'manifestation' and not a gift as actually different gifts are given not everyone has all the same gifts. Why because everyone has different kinds of gifts for the benefit of all. If everyone had the exact same gift what would be the point? Our God wants us to use our differnt gifts so we can actually share with those who havent been given the same ones.

The gifts do manifest but not to say the manifestations are all the same for everyone.

Someone who does not have the gift of discernment cannot always tell if something is of God or not right away. When you have this gift its like you just automatically know!

How does this gift operate...well look in the Bible where Paul had it. There were some sorcers claiming they were doing things that were of God and fooling people into thinking they were believers too because they seemd like they did the same kind of miracles. Eg simon and various others. Even anais and saphirra they were lying to the holy spirit and Peterr could tell. This is so he could say and command it to leave! You cant do this if you dont know what you dealing with.

Paul, who could discern spirits knew that one girl was not actually prophesying but having a spirit of divination in her, and he cast it out of her. How did he know that she was making a gain for her masters. He was grieved (the holy spirit can be grieved, and when the holy spirit is grieved he makes sure you know it! )

This is in Acts 16:16-18

Kjv actually does list discerning of spirits as one of the diverse gifts given to people in corinthians so not sure why saul you have problem with it being a gift. I dont like when people squabble over gifts just aceept God gives different ones to differnent people according to how He wants us to use them. We can always ask Him if we dont have this gift and want to use it. No harm in asking Him.

 

[Saul Mine]

My dear brother Saul. Do you sit and read what you are about to post to others and ask yourself if you would like to hear that said to you in the way you say it to others BEFORE you post it????

All I am saying to you IN MY OWN OPINION and certainly not in the Scriptures is that the Holy Spirit is 100% God can do what He wants to do.

John 14:17 (ESV)
"Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."

Colossians 1:27 (ESV)
"To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

1 Corinthians 12:11 (ESV)
"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills."

As all can see, I did not write my own Bible but simply posted what God has already said.

Those actual words then tell us that there are some gifts that God gives to men which are NOT in the Scriptures and listed among the 9 gifts.
I would venture to say that there are several gifts that the Holy Spirit has given to men because HE Lives in their heart and does "AS HE WILLS"
according to the written Word of God. Some of those IMO would be........
1). Celibacy.
2). A Choice of Poverty.
3). Music.
4). Craftsmanship.

I pray the Lord will bless you brother.

I am painfully aware that many people are offended to learn something they did not already believe. I am very aware that a lot of people will die for what they believe but they won't study the bible to learn if it's true or false. But when we can't agree on how to parse English, we have little hope to agree on what the bible says. When that happens I can only wait on the Lord to bring better understanding.

 

[Major]

Partially correct, and not in every instance.

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

The manifestation of the Spirit is GIVEN to every MAN....to ONE is GIVEN - ...

The antecedent to the word ONE is MAN. According to Strong's, the word 'profit' is a verb. Verse 8 says, "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit." The Interlinear words it, "Indeed, to whom wisdom is given through the Spirit..."

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co12.pdf

The word ONE is actually two words, "who or which, and men." The antecedent to the word ONE is not the word 'profit' but the word MAN.

Verse 7, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."

This is also confirmed by verses 9 & 10.
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

"To another" can only imply back to the man or ONE who is given.


Also...
It is a gift because verse 4 says, "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."
These gifts or the spiritual gift of "discernment of Spirits" is manifested or "exhibited and expressed" in different ways (for different reasons) but by the same Spirit.

"And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

The word 'operations' is only used twice in the NT. Here in verse 6, and once in verse 10. it's the same word as "working"...
"To another (man - not profit!) the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"

This is what "differences of administration and diversities of operations" means...
Verse 5 and 6 indicate there are different ministries or services carried out by the Spirit that operates and works to bring about a certain effect or outcome.

Well said and I agree with all of it.

 

[Major]

I am painfully aware that many people are offended to learn something they did not already believe. I am very aware that a lot of people will die for what they believe but they won't study the bible to learn if it's true or false. But when we can't agree on how to parse English, we have little hope to agree on what the bible says. When that happens I can only wait on the Lord to bring better understanding.

Saul......it is never what is said but instead how it is said.

1 Corinthians 1:10 ......….
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

 

[so-so]

I am painfully aware that many people are offended to learn something they did not already believe. I am very aware that a lot of people will die for what they believe but they won't study the bible to learn if it's true or false. But when we can't agree on how to parse English, we have little hope to agree on what the bible says. When that happens I can only wait on the Lord to bring better understanding.

Studying the Word in English is fine for our general understanding, but the bible was written in Hebrew, some Aramaic, and Greek, so in order to acquire truth or the true intended meaning of a passage, we need to use those resources.

 

[Saul Mine]

Studying the Word in English is fine for our general understanding, but the bible was written in Hebrew, some Aramaic, and Greek, so in order to acquire truth or the true intended meaning of a passage, we need to use those resources.

The Greek word "charisma" is used in the bible 17 times. Only one manifestation of holy spirit is called "charisma" and nobody has posted an analysis showing that the other 16 uses apply to manifestations. Anybody can look in any exhaustive concordance to study those 17 occurrences. You don't have to learn the language. Every word is catalogued, even the translation errors.

Everybody uses Strong's concordance because it it so thorough. Young's concordance is also widely used because it is so much easier to use. A student should also have an Interlinear Greek-English Translation Of The New Testament, any brand. That is where odd translation errors and forgeries are pointed out.

 

[Saul Mine]

Saul......it is never what is said but instead how it is said.

1 Corinthians 1:10 ......….
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

I am open to advice. What do you suggest? Most of the advice I get begins with "You moron", so if you can avoid such expressions, well, maybe we can accomplish some improvement.

 

[so-so]

I am painfully aware that many people are offended to learn something they did not already believe. I am very aware that a lot of people will die for what they believe but they won't study the bible to learn if it's true or false. But when we can't agree on how to parse English, we have little hope to agree on what the bible says. When that happens I can only wait on the Lord to bring better understanding.

The issue is more that we disagree how you arrive at your conclusions. Most people don't like to change their mind because by doing so they're admitting they were wrong, but by doing so, that's how we learn!

From error to error we discover truth!

 

[Saul Mine]

The issue is more that we disagree how you arrive at your conclusions. Most people don't like to change their mind because by doing so they're admitting they were wrong, but by doing so, that's how we learn!

From error to error we discover truth!

Well I totally agree with that. People say "Learn from your mistakes," but they refuse to admit they made one!

 

[Lanolin]

Well I totally agree with that. People say "Learn from your mistakes," but they refuse to admit they made one!

Is it people made the mistake or are you saying God made a mistake in the Bible.
Cos its not really clear what you saying. But it is clear what the Bible says. If we just take His word for it.

Also, im reading the same translation as you KJV and its talking about diversities of spiritual gifts ..same spirit. in corinthians. Difference in adminsitrations..same Lord. Diversities of operations...same God. The manifestation is given to every man to profit withal.

I take that to mean the gift is openly displayed so everyone can benefit from it. Recall Peter called out anais and saphirra in front of the whole church. Paul cast the spirit of divination out of the damsel in public. It wasnt done in a corner.

So if you have the gift of discerning of spirits you are going to use it to benefit the church.

 

[kdavis150]

The lord only picks the most ripe fruit and the fruit that is the most ripe is his delight.

yes those who are bound spiritually are well favored by the lord because he puts his trust solely in the righteous

 

[Major]

The issue is more that we disagree how you arrive at your conclusions. Most people don't like to change their mind because by doing so they're admitting they were wrong, but by doing so, that's how we learn!

From error to error we discover truth!

Agreed!

When we are too old to learn something new, we are then in deep trouble.

 

[Major]

I am open to advice. What do you suggest? Most of the advice I get begins with "You moron", so if you can avoid such expressions, well, maybe we can accomplish some improvement.

First of all Saul......I would never call you a "Moron".

Second...….I am also very confident that no one on this site would say that either.

Third...……..If they did the moderators would place them in a time out very quickly.

Proverbs 18:24 KJV says...………...
"A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."

 

[Lanolin]

Just slow down and pray and read the Bible again, is my advice. We all may miss things when we in a hurry.
I am saying this to everyone, including myself.


Everyone here is very smart cos we all reading the Bible so that doesnt make any of us morons!

If one doesnt have a concordance (I dont) just ask God to show you the meaning. Personally I have found concordances more confusing when its easier to just keep reading scripture in english and the meaning will reveal itself. If I was fluent in greek or hebrew I would probably read them in those langangues.. but I'm not.

With english we have a lot of phrasal verbs where two words mean one thing its not a simple discrete langauge so, with any translation its not going to be exact word for word. I have taught ESOL so I do know a few things about the ins and outs of English, and it IS a confusing langauge for a non-native speaker. Non-native speakers certainly know more about english grammar rulesthan I do, cos they need to learn it, wheras I just speak it and dont actually need to really think about the grammar. And the rules always have exceptions!!

This is why God also gives spiritual gifts of interpetation of tongues!

 

[Major]

yes those who are bound spiritually are well favored by the lord because he puts his trust solely in the righteous

Absolutly.

The fruit of a fig tree is figs. The fruit of a grape fine is grapes. The fruit of a prophet is his prophecy. Jesus elsewhere said:
Matthew 12:33-37......………..
"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned"..

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Hello CoffeeDrinker;

God bless you, sister. We miss you and your fellowship. There have been many members who have joined the family this year.

One of the areas that I teach is the gift of discernment and is indeed in the Scriptures. If we all re-read the previous posts in this topic we will see there are varied teachings of this spiritual gift.

In order to grow from Christian babes to Spiritual maturity we must learn discernment where the Holy Spirit intercedes for each one of us in our consciousness, our minds, thoughts, senses and actions to stay the course of right from wrong.

Yes, we will still make mistakes but our discernment leads us to humble ourselves with humility and acceptance, instead of exposing our bruised pride and egos.

I'll borrow one Scripture I teach from in Hebrews 5:14, that refers to spiritual discernment. The book of Hebrews 5 stresses Christ's divine appointment and His humanity which requires spiritual maturity in His believers, including growth in discernment.

We cannot limit God's anointing of spiritual gifts just from the Bible alone, otherwise, there would not be enough books to contain His Unlimited Ways.

Another thought. I've always dealt with this challenge all my life. Discernment doesn't mean I cannot express my opinion. Because many times when my knowledge or opinion was wrong, this is how God built me up to react in those moments. Our discernment will never get mastered, but will continue to be a work in progress.

God bless you, CoffeeDrinker, and your family.

Hi, Bob. I am going to make it a point to get on more often and interact more. I love learning about God, His gifts and promises, His love for us, etc. There is so much to learn. We can learn something new every single day and still hardly know a thing. I am loving my walk / journey and learning. I miss chatting with everyone, too. I will do better, I promise.

 

[Major]

Hi, Bob. I am going to make it a point to get on more often and interact more. I love learning about God, His gifts and promises, His love for us, etc. There is so much to learn. We can learn something new every single day and still hardly know a thing. I am loving my walk / journey and learning. I miss chatting with everyone, too. I will do better, I promise.

That is really good news! I always enjoy your imput and thoughts!