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I love ya Bro Ravindran, join in but I agree that the video is worth watching as well. And Read Abdicate's pg 187 of his appendix. It's amazing!!!!
 
TalkJesus said:
I would strongly advise using the KJV and not the ESV just so we are on the same page.

In any event, as per your reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:8-13, Paul goes on to speak of those wisked and unreasonable men for they not all have faith in the next chapter and to testify that those that walk disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, we were to correct them but if unrepentant, we are to admonish them by withdrawing; with the view that they are not the enemy, but brothers still.

Now going back to your reference: you would say how can those condemned still be brothers? What do you think happens when a vessel unto honour that defiles himself is destroyed into becoming that vessel unto dishonour? It is a condemnation: a damnation, because he can never be that vessel unto honour in His House after judgment has been rendered in him being left behind.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 testify of believers departing from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils. That means these are saved believers having been led astray. Your reference testify to how we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the love of the truth; meaning, Paul was reproving the false teaching that believers can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sensational sign in the flesh; even the sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation. That is the strong delusion for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again with evidence of tongues. Unless they repent, these believers are in danger of being left behind in becoming vessels unto dishonour in His House.



At or immediatley sfter the pre trib rapture; an angel with the everlasting gospel will share at this time. This will happen.

Revelations 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Then the second angel will herald the fall of Babylon.



Not every saved believers will be ready and willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 14:15-24 is Jesus testifying to the King's Supper on how those invited made excuses not to come in favour of the cares of his life. Luke 14:25-37 is about the cost of discipleship is being ready to leave the cares of this life when the Bridegroom comes.

So iniquity is not the only thing that can cause a saved believer to be left behind. A disciple that has been following Him all His life but yet does not wish to go when the Bridegroom comes is akin to a man building his tower but not finishing it.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus would not be warning unsaved believers because they will be left behind. So the warning applies to saved believers wishing to be His disciples; to be chosen by His grace & by His help, to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in His honour.

Otherwise, they will be harvested later and resurrected to be received after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonour in His House
Click to expand...

2 Thess. 2:10.......
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

The people mentioned here are not heathens. They heard and rejected the gospel. Notice the words.....
"Because they refused to love the truth and so be saved".

They were exposed to the truth!!! The more Gospel someone hears and rejects, the harder their hearts become.

Remember Romans 1.........."God gave them up". Those people worshipped the creature rather than the Creator and for that reason God gave them up.

2 Thess. 2:11-12
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" .

These Scriptures indicates that all who reject God's call to salvation and choose to stay in their sin will be given over to Satan and his man of the Tribulation hour, Antichrist. They will fall for his lies and be damned forever. They will be damned without hope of redemption when they take Antichrist's mark.

Right now, today, the church is full of worldly, careless people professing Jesus Christ, but possessing nothing of a spiritual life and Christ-centered surrender. They live for the flesh, they are enemies of the cross because Jesus is not allowed to be the Lord of their lives. THEY ARE MAKE BELIEVERS! There has been such a bombardment of cheap preaching, which promises so much for so little that a comments like this serves to anger and disturb this careless crowd.

Listen to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. He appears to be screaming out these words of warning in Luke 21:33-36..........................
"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

To me, there is no question to a reasonable reader of what Jesus was discussing. Luke chapter 21 deals with the Lord's great message of the end time events and the Great Tribulation time of His earthly wrath against wickedness. We can escape that wrath and He instructs us how to escape. The only way He warns us is if we are constantly vigilant in our consecration, that we allow nothing, not even the normal cares of life, to limit our Spirit-filled living. He warns us of being "overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness." Those words indicate in order as He presented them, "gluttoning on the world and intoxicated with the world." It is a perfect picture of the majority of today's church.

Most churches do not have a Sunday night or Wednesday night service because it is too embarrassing to try. But, the problem is not the absence of these services, but it is the matter of the heart. The world's interest and even legitimate interests have often robbed the hearts of the people. The real problem is that we claim to be His espoused bride, while our courtship is with money, things, gourmet meals, pleasures, hobbies, vacations, and a multitude of other desires. This is exactly what Jesus was saying in the breathtaking words I just printed for you. If we are "overcharged" with the cares of the world, we are going to miss the Rapture and be left for "that day" as Jesus called the coming seven years of wrath.

Having said all of that, one must then ask themselves, without the Holy Spirit here to help those left behind, how in the world will they begin to live the Christian life when death will be their reward. They will not be able to buy or sell and their family will starve to death. WITH the Holy Spirit here before the Rapture they could not gather the ability to worship and serve God, but now without Him they can.
Does that even sound right to you?????????

I realize what I am saying is not popular and many have not heard it before. We believe that our Lord is the God of 2nd & 3rd and 4th chances and I agree with that completely so do not listen to me. I firmly believe what Paul is saying here to us and it is that if you have heard and rejected the Gospel today while it is easy and free, you will not then accept it simply because some of your friends are no longer on this earth. YOU will then, just as the Scriptures say, believe the lie and take the Mark of the Beast.

Will people be saved after the Rapture??/ YES!
Will they be those who rejected Christ and missed the Rapture? NO!
 
I think what bothers me the most, about these times we live in, is the ocean of lies and the very atmosphere we breathe in is saturated with deceit. And it makes what should be a very simple, easy choice, the most important choice - that is clearly in every one's best interest, long and short term - difficult/hard/confusing.
 
Major said:
2 Thess. 2:10.......
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Click to expand...

This saved part was about being saved from being left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the coming great tribulation when you take in the context about the falling away from the faith which is to happen first and then the son of perdition will be revealed.

That means God will deal with the falling away from the faith at the pre trib rapture event before He actually comes with the raptured saints to deal with Satan & his armies.

And by dealing with His House first, not every one will be saved from that hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth as many saved but wayward and unrepentant believers shall be left behind for not being ready by Him by His grace & by His help.

That is why Paul is instructing those wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not walk after the traditions taught of us and that are walking disorderly as tongues without interpretation are, as it is the strong delusion for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign of tongues which is the point of rebuke in reminding believers when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the love of the truth when they were first saved so that they may be saved from the coming fire and that hour of trial that shall try all those on the earth.

Yet these wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith, that are not walking after the traditions taught of us and are being disorderly, they are not to be treated as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers by withdrawing from them because they are still brothers and thus are still saved but are at risk in being left behind, unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes.
 
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