Do Angels Have An Earthly Ministry Today?

Jul 22, 2010
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It is an assumption, of course, I am not calling it absolute truth, just as "sons of God" being Seth's line cannot be absolute truth. Assumptions are made very often to try to understand scripture.
Now, angels ate with Abraham...where did the food go? Oh so they had stomachs but not male equipment? To me that's a stretch.
Jacob wrestled most of the night with who we assume is Jesus in pre-incarnate form, since the text says he was the Lord. Jacob would have known if his opponent was a man or not, complete with the male equipment. Have you ever wrestled? It is inevitable that you brush up against such things, especially wrestling for that long of a period. I can't believe I have to explain these things.
The Bible says they are men as humans, so why would you assume they didn't have all the parts? Why call them "men" if they were not actually men?
When we wrestle these days we wear rather brief trunks or similar. Unless Jacob was a wrestler and dressed for the occasion, I'd be surprised if he wasn't just wearing his normal garb. Same goes for the other man he wrestled with. That is a strange passage, because it was a man not an angel and not the Lord with whom Jacob wrestled, yet.....this man blesses Jacob, ie he is of greater stature, and Jacob claims to have seen the face of God and lived.
It is interesting too that he is told that henceforth his name is to be Israel, yet Jesus refers to him still as Jacob.
Anyway all that mystery aside it is the only instance where close contact with a supposed angel might have revealed what he had under his clothing.
I can see we will never likely agree this side of the resurrection, and I think we have covered all the pros and cons, so I think I'll bow out at least for now.
 
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Sep 3, 2009
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When we wrestle these days we wear rather brief trunks or similar. Unless Jacob was a wrestler and dressed for the occasion, I'd be surprised if he wasn't just wearing his normal garb. Same goes for the other man he wrestled with. That is a strange passage, because it was a man not an angel and not the Lord with whom Jacob wrestled, yet.....this man blesses Jacob, ie he is of greater stature, and Jacob claims to have seen the face of God and lived.
It is interesting too that he is told that henceforth his name is to be Israel, yet Jesus refers to him still as Jacob.
Anyway all that mystery aside it is the only instance where close contact with a supposed angel might have revealed what he had under his clothing.
I can see we will never likely agree this side of the resurrection, and I think we have covered all the pros and cons, so I think I'll bow out at least for now.
I think that you are right calvin.
 
Jul 22, 2010
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The interesting thing with Angels is they're always refered to as male for some reason and the accounts in Gen 6, 1 Peter 3, 2 Peter 4, and Jude indicate that they are able to assume human form. Now this doesn't imply that while they're in the spiritual form that that have human appendages but we know from other instance when they assumed human form that they ate and drank like when the Angels that accompanied Jesus when He spoke to Abraham in Mamre etc. Now if Angels who assume human form can eat and drink I think it's logical top assume they also have a stomach, digestuive tract, elimination system, etc don't you think ?

So the indication is that these male critters ( Angels ) were created with no female component and were nevere intended to have one. Their ministry was to serve both Yahweh and us and during this service they have been known to assume human form. During this transition to human form is when they also have human abilities, not when they're in heavenly form.

So yes Yahweh did create a being of one gender. male, with no accompanying female companion and this shouldn't be seen as unusual really because we know Yahweh is also male with no physical female compliments. We also know that Yahweh fully assumed human form and functioned as a human. ( even though He didn't fornicate 0f course )
I don't think I gave you a reply to this...sorry.
As for angels being referred to as masculine, I mentioned befor that Hebrew contains only two genders..there is no neuter gender so an angel for example can't be referred to as 'it'. You might like to visit http://www.rubinspace.org/html/about_hebrew.html
About angels taking human form,
2Pet 2:4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
I see nothing here about angels taking human form, only that some sinned.
Jude 1:6. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
This from the ESV agrees with the Kjv, only the wording is clearer.
Again nothing here about angels taking human form. It seems more likely that there was a demarcation dispute amongst some angels about who should have authority over certain heavenly things or duties and when these usurpers were brought to heal, they were ousted. The passage is about the Lord's justice, not angels taking human form. It just says they kicked up a ruckus and got hammered. That's it, nothing more.
Angels and the Lord eating food...OK, so on taking on human form or even just being themselves, is there any reason that their digestive system couldn't be 100% efficient? Or,that the earthly food was transformed into some kind of spiritual food? (if there is such a thing) Not talking about the bread from heaven, just thinking out loud.
Just seems to me that there are way too many assumptions involved in thinking that angels can procreate with women.
I have enjoyed the discussion and look forward to another some time.
 
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Sep 3, 2009
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I don't think I gave you a reply to this...sorry.
As for angels being referred to as masculine, I mentioned befor that Hebrew contains only two genders..there is no neuter gender so an angel for example can't be referred to as 'it'. You might like to visit http://www.rubinspace.org/html/about_hebrew.html
About angels taking human form,
2Pet 2:4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
I see nothing here about angels taking human form, only that some sinned.
Jude 1:6. And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
This from the ESV agrees with the Kjv, only the wording is clearer.
Again nothing here about angels taking human form. It seems more likely that there was a demarcation dispute amongst some angels about who should have authority over certain heavenly things or duties and when these usurpers were brought to heal, they were ousted. The passage is about the Lord's justice, not angels taking human form. It just says they kicked up a ruckus and got hammered. That's it, nothing more.
Angels and the Lord eating food...OK, so on taking on human form or even just being themselves, is there any reason that their digestive system couldn't be 100% efficient? Or,that the earthly food was transformed into some kind of spiritual food? (if there is such a thing) Not talking about the bread from heaven, just thinking out loud.
Just seems to me that there are way too many assumptions involved in thinking that angels can procreate with women.
I have enjoyed the discussion and look forward to another some time.
As always calvin you are articulate and very well spoken on all Biblical subjects and it is my honor to talk with you.

It seems that we pretty much agree on angels and their function.

My only thinking on this was that angels do not have an earthly ministry today because of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

There are some who do not agree with that and that is OK with me. It was only a point of conversation and is not a fundamental of the faith.

Blessing to you brother and be well!!!!
 
Apr 11, 2014
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As always calvin you are articulate and very well spoken on all Biblical subjects and it is my honor to talk with you.

It seems that we pretty much agree on angels and their function.

My only thinking on this was that angels do not have an earthly ministry today because of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

There are some who do not agree with that and that is OK with me. It was only a point of conversation and is not a fundamental of the faith.

Blessing to you brother and be well!!!!
Major, what do you make of Matthew 18:10 ?
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

What do you suppose "their angels" means? And why was this a warning that they "always see the face of My Father"?
 
Sep 18, 2014
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Major, what do you make of Matthew 18:10 ?
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

What do you suppose "their angels" means? And why was this a warning that they "always see the face of My Father"?
That IS a good question...and it does cause ME to think "these little ones" may have special protections put in place by God. "These little ones" could variously mean children and/or babes in Christ.
 
Jul 22, 2010
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Major, getting back to your original purpose, I have been reading Daniel ch 4 and the authority with which the 'watcher' spoke reminded me of the authority with which the heraldic angels in Revelation speak.
So maybe yes, angels do have an earthly ministry today.

Watcher = Angel.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Major, getting back to your original purpose, I have been reading Daniel ch 4 and the authority with which the 'watcher' spoke reminded me of the authority with which the heraldic angels in Revelation speak.
So maybe yes, angels do have an earthly ministry today.

Watcher = Angel.
Also Angels = Men, Revelation 17:1; 19:10. How did Peter, James and John know it was Moses and Elijah, Mark 9:4? Did they have name tags? We know they didn't have photos of them. So I am certain they knew because there are no questions in heaven and the fact that God took down the barriers between reality and our perception of the present, so they could see clearly into eternity. Since we are seated in the heavenlies already, Ephesians 2:6, it's just a matter of belief. How attached emotionally we are to our beliefs will determine the level of understanding of the truth we can grasp, 2 Kings 6:17.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Major, what do you make of Matthew 18:10 ?
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

What do you suppose "their angels" means? And why was this a warning that they "always see the face of My Father"?
That they "always see the face of my Father" would seem to me to indicate that they are in heaven ministering to God as was my original comment.

As for the rest of Matt. 18:10, remember that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter had not yet come when Jesus made those comments. The Holy Spirit
did not come to man until Jesus ascended to heaven. That has been my thesis from the beginning.

There are angels. There is the Holy Spirit but when the Holy Spirit came to minister to man, angels were no longer needed. That is only my opinion however. It is just something to give some prayer and thought to.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Also Angels = Men, Revelation 17:1; 19:10. How did Peter, James and John know it was Moses and Elijah, Mark 9:4? Did they have name tags? We know they didn't have photos of them. So I am certain they knew because there are no questions in heaven and the fact that God took down the barriers between reality and our perception of the present, so they could see clearly into eternity. Since we are seated in the heavenlies already, Ephesians 2:6, it's just a matter of belief. How attached emotionally we are to our beliefs will determine the level of understanding of the truth we can grasp, 2 Kings 6:17.
I agree! That is exactly how some well meaning people can be shown the absolute truth and they will reject it.
 
Sep 18, 2014
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That they "always see the face of my Father" would seem to me to indicate that they are in heaven ministering to God as was my original comment.

As for the rest of Matt. 18:10, remember that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter had not yet come when Jesus made those comments. The Holy Spirit
did not come to man until Jesus ascended to heaven. That has been my thesis from the beginning.

There are angels. There is the Holy Spirit but when the Holy Spirit came to minister to man, angels were no longer needed. That is only my opinion however. It is just something to give some prayer and thought to.
Major, do you feel "these little ones" (if they are children) had ministering angels protecting them at the time that Jesus was speaking in Matt. 18:10?

I understand the Holy Spirit is our Comforter and we did not have access to Him before Jesus ascended (I was blown away when I learned that). What I hear you saying possibly is that "these little ones" DID have angels protecting them at that time, but now the Holy Spirit is the One who does this ministry. This is something I have not considered before...taking it for granted that angels are on earth doing ministry today...and your point is causing me to think about it.

And I have a question: Is the Holy Spirit active in non-believers lives and unregenerated minds? If He is not active and accessible in their lives, would that not leave a ministry for the angels to do today? If Jesus is referring to children in Matt. 18:10, would it not be possible that since they are too young to make a decision for salvation, that they would NEED angels to protect them until they are old enough or do make the decision?

I know none of this is specifically stated in the Bible, and consequently various interpretations are garnered...but this question and these thoughts came to me while I was reading this topic and I value your wisdom so I am asking you about it.

If anyone else has input, I would appreciate your thoughts as well.
 
Amens/Likes: Big Moose
Jul 22, 2010
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Psa 91:11. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.
Psa 91:12. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.
and quoted by Satan,
Matt 4:6. and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

But Jesus was already filled with the Holy spirit, yet the angels had a ministry. No it wasn't after Pentecost, but if the criteria is the presence of the Holy Spirit...His indwelling, then...but that doesn't answer your question.:)
 
Sep 18, 2014
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Psa 91:11. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.
Psa 91:12. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.
and quoted by Satan,
Matt 4:6. and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

But Jesus was already filled with the Holy spirit, yet the angels had a ministry. No it wasn't after Pentecost, but if the criteria is the presence of the Holy Spirit...His indwelling, then...but that doesn't answer your question.:)
Calvin~ You bring up some good points as well; however the verses in Psalms were written before mankind had access to the Holy Spirit, and these verses do seem to show that angels were active in earthly ministries at that time (which I think everyone on this forum are in agreement about). And when Jesus was ministered to by angels (even though He was already filled with the Holy Spirit), they ministered before He ascended to the Father; which would explain why their ministry was needed for His human form.

So in a way, your post does support the idea that angels are needed for ministry towards humans who do not have access to the Holy Spirit...but you're also right that it doesn't answer my question fully. Thank you for your input and pointing out those verses.

I don't know if I'm way off base here by speculating about this...but Major does bring up a thought-provoking point and I am exploring it.
 
Jul 22, 2010
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Sorry, my input is a bit on the fly at the moment....busy with other Sunday things.
Psa 91 was prophetic of the coming of Jesus so it was speaking to His time, not David's time.
And I have a question: Is the Holy Spirit active in non-believers lives and unregenerated minds? If He is not active and accessible in their lives, would that not leave a ministry for the angels to do today? If Jesus is referring to children in Matt 18:10, would it not be possible that since they are too young to make a decision for salvation, that they would NEED angels to protect them until they are old enough or do make the decision?
Yes most definitely the Holy spirit is active in the lives of the lost. It is through His power and witness that we come ultimately to believe in Jesus.
His purpose is to glorify Jesus.
Consider,
John 3:5. Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So, if one can not enter the Kingdom of God except he be born of the Spirit, that would mean that those yet to enter must be being influenced by the interaction of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
Hopes this helps.
 
Apr 11, 2014
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I'm not catholic, but saw this on Drudge today, thought I'd share:
Pope Francis: 'I believe in guardian angels...and everyone should listen to their advice'
Pope Francis has said he believes in angels, telling Catholics around the world to reaffirm their belief in holy guardians.

Speaking to followers at the Vatican on Wednesday, the pontiff said every person has a guardian angel advising them in life.

Stressing they were not imaginary, he said it was only pride stopping people hearing their voices.

“Do not rebel: follow his advice,” the Pope said according to the Catholic News Agency.

“No one walks alone and none of us can think that he is alone.”

Pope Francis made the comments on the Feast of Holy Guardian Angels, observed by Catholics around the world on 2 October.

He claimed that no person can rightly give moral advice to themselves and should instead rely on direction from angels.
“It is dangerous to chase away our travelling companion,” he said.

“The Holy Spirit advises me, the angel advises me. This is why we need him.”

During the address, the Pope also used Biblical examples to hit out against “careerism”, saying it was against the attitude of “docility” taught by Jesus.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict, made a similar address on angels in 2011, saying: “From the beginning until death, human life is surrounded by their constant protection.”
But his insistence in 2012 that angels did not sing at the birth of Christ devastated lovers of carol “Hark! The herald angels sing”.

He also wrote in his book about Jesus’ early life that contrary to popular belief, there were no donkeys, camels or any other animals present at the Nativity scene.
 
Sep 18, 2014
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I'm not catholic, but saw this on Drudge today, thought I'd share:
Pope Francis: 'I believe in guardian angels...and everyone should listen to their advice'
Pope Francis has said he believes in angels, telling Catholics around the world to reaffirm their belief in holy guardians.

Speaking to followers at the Vatican on Wednesday, the pontiff said every person has a guardian angel advising them in life.

Stressing they were not imaginary, he said it was only pride stopping people hearing their voices.

“Do not rebel: follow his advice,” the Pope said according to the Catholic News Agency.

“No one walks alone and none of us can think that he is alone.”

Pope Francis made the comments on the Feast of Holy Guardian Angels, observed by Catholics around the world on 2 October.

He claimed that no person can rightly give moral advice to themselves and should instead rely on direction from angels.
“It is dangerous to chase away our travelling companion,” he said.

“The Holy Spirit advises me, the angel advises me. This is why we need him.”

During the address, the Pope also used Biblical examples to hit out against “careerism”, saying it was against the attitude of “docility” taught by Jesus.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict, made a similar address on angels in 2011, saying: “From the beginning until death, human life is surrounded by their constant protection.”
But his insistence in 2012 that angels did not sing at the birth of Christ devastated lovers of carol “Hark! The herald angels sing”.

He also wrote in his book about Jesus’ early life that contrary to popular belief, there were no donkeys, camels or any other animals present at the Nativity scene.
Listen to the angels' advice? IMO the Pope's advice is very dangerous!
 
Amens/Likes: Big Moose
Sep 3, 2009
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Major, do you feel "these little ones" (if they are children) had ministering angels protecting them at the time that Jesus was speaking in Matt. 18:10?

I understand the Holy Spirit is our Comforter and we did not have access to Him before Jesus ascended (I was blown away when I learned that). What I hear you saying possibly is that "these little ones" DID have angels protecting them at that time, but now the Holy Spirit is the One who does this ministry. This is something I have not considered before...taking it for granted that angels are on earth doing ministry today...and your point is causing me to think about it.

And I have a question: Is the Holy Spirit active in non-believers lives and unregenerated minds? If He is not active and accessible in their lives, would that not leave a ministry for the angels to do today? If Jesus is referring to children in Matt. 18:10, would it not be possible that since they are too young to make a decision for salvation, that they would NEED angels to protect them until they are old enough or do make the decision?

I know none of this is specifically stated in the Bible, and consequently various interpretations are garnered...but this question and these thoughts came to me while I was reading this topic and I value your wisdom so I am asking you about it.

If anyone else has input, I would appreciate your thoughts as well.
You are way to kind to me Cloud. Thank you for your encouragement and please know that I am only here to try my best to get out the Word of God.

I believe the "Little ones" were saved people and not children in age but in being children of God.

Yes.....just as angels ministered to Jesus they would have been able to minister and help believers. My point from the beginning was that because we have the Holy Spirit here on the earth today....why would there be a need for angels to minister to those who possess the 3rd person of the Trinity.

NO...The Holy Spirit is NOT active in non-believers. He convicts man of sin and then points that man to Christ so that he can be saved. He then comes to live in the heart of that man by INVITATION.

The "indwelling of the Spirit" is much different that the protection from the Holy Spirit for the children you asked about IMO.

John 14:16-18, 26
16 "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

John 16:7-137
" But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
 
Sep 18, 2014
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I'm not catholic, but saw this on Drudge today, thought I'd share:
Pope Francis: 'I believe in guardian angels...and everyone should listen to their advice'
Pope Francis has said he believes in angels, telling Catholics around the world to reaffirm their belief in holy guardians.

Speaking to followers at the Vatican on Wednesday, the pontiff said every person has a guardian angel advising them in life.

Stressing they were not imaginary, he said it was only pride stopping people hearing their voices.

“Do not rebel: follow his advice,” the Pope said according to the Catholic News Agency.

“No one walks alone and none of us can think that he is alone.”

Pope Francis made the comments on the Feast of Holy Guardian Angels, observed by Catholics around the world on 2 October.

He claimed that no person can rightly give moral advice to themselves and should instead rely on direction from angels.
“It is dangerous to chase away our travelling companion,” he said.

“The Holy Spirit advises me, the angel advises me. This is why we need him.”

During the address, the Pope also used Biblical examples to hit out against “careerism”, saying it was against the attitude of “docility” taught by Jesus.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict, made a similar address on angels in 2011, saying: “From the beginning until death, human life is surrounded by their constant protection.”
But his insistence in 2012 that angels did not sing at the birth of Christ devastated lovers of carol “Hark! The herald angels sing”.

He also wrote in his book about Jesus’ early life that contrary to popular belief, there were no donkeys, camels or any other animals present at the Nativity scene.
The leader of the Bible class where I went to church today also shared this statement the Pope made. And would you believe the topic of that class was also about angels? So now, I am so full of questions, I'm bouncing off the edge of my seat!!
 
Amens/Likes: Big Moose